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> How is "First-Class Honor" Degree benefits us?, In real-life, real world.

jubina
post Feb 29 2008, 01:30 PM


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how many of u had 1st class honor degree, and how does it benefit to you in real life? will that become an "advantage" in the real world?

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Reddy
post Feb 29 2008, 01:47 PM


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Hi there,

Just to share some experience. Well im 2nd class lower btw.

having a 1st class honor degree is definately is an upperhand but then again communication skills is pretty much important.

A lot of companies does put the degree results as one of the important, but as a fresh grad do take some time to do presentations in class and start communicating well. Try a few jobs before settling to one, especially when you are new most important thing is to learn. once the job is routine then get a more challenging job.

actually as long as you are willing to learn i see no problem on getting a job. But ofcourse even if you are 1st class degree dun get over your head and expect a big salary on your first few jobs. Experience counts. by the time you are having 2-3 yrs experience belive me paper doesnt really count. Job experience counts.

So watever the results are learn as much as you can while in your job. once you see no prospect/routine then move on.

btw getting first class does get you better jobs for a start. So study hard & smart, communicate!!!!

Good luck!!
-redfella-

QUOTE(jubina @ Feb 29 2008, 01:30 PM)
how many of u had 1st class honor degree, and how does it benefit to you in real life? will that become an "advantage" in the real world?
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cks2k2
post Feb 29 2008, 02:22 PM


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Higher starting pay, around RM300 more in some companies.
Boss will have higher expectation of you though, but if you're good you'll become the "go-to" guy really quick.
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frags
post Feb 29 2008, 03:06 PM


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While many companies use your results as a barometer for a persons potential, it may not always help. It all depends on how smart you study/learn and work. If you are found to be weak in that position you wont last long regardless whether you got a 1st class or not.

1st class awards are reward for a students effort in university and should not be seen as the ultimate goal of higher education hence you miss the point of the education itself.
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chris_c28
post Feb 29 2008, 03:16 PM


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How "does". How "does"!
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youngkies
post Feb 29 2008, 03:35 PM


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it improves your position when competition is huge. some company actually prioritize first class graduates initially at the screening stage.

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Irzani
post Feb 29 2008, 04:09 PM


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I heard that First Class Graduate can enter straight to PhD,is that true?
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cks2k2
post Feb 29 2008, 04:15 PM


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QUOTE(Irzani @ Feb 29 2008, 04:09 PM)
I heard that First Class Graduate can enter straight to PhD,is that true?
*
Good, reputable universities won't allow that. Unless of course your IQ is freaking high.

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djspinnet
post Feb 29 2008, 04:32 PM


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Irzani, yes, first class honours (H1) allows the student to "jump" to PhD in many universities, although it also depends on how your honours year was conducted. Some also allow (though more difficult) H2A applicants.

QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Feb 29 2008, 04:15 PM)
Good, reputable universities won't allow that. Unless of course your IQ is freaking high.
*
Cambridge offers PhD with entry requirements being first class honours degree. So you're saying Cambridge isn't good or reputable enough? smile.gif

My former university, (Monash) and Melbourne uni also offers the same. I'm intending to do the same jump (1st class hons to PhD) but had to defer applying for PhD cos of time & financial constraint.

Essentially, a proper honours year should contain a research component which the student has to complete as part of the assessment and write a dissertation on it.

So as long as you get 1st class hons and in your hons year you wrote a dissertation, you are eligible to *apply*. Whether you are accepted into entry is another thing altogether.

This post has been edited by djspinnet: Feb 29 2008, 04:35 PM
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jubina
post Feb 29 2008, 05:16 PM


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what is the requirement to get 1st class honor?
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azarimy
post Feb 29 2008, 05:24 PM


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requirements for first class honors are:

i. the degree u're taking is an honors degree.
ii. scoring atleast 3.70cgpa.



on its potentials for PhD, nowadays most schools in the UK adopts the MPhil/PhD format. MPhil is a masters, so intakes are from degree level. MPhil requirement is 2nd class upper (2:1) or 3.00cgpa. after u've finished ur 2 year MPhil, u could opt to convert ur research into a PhD. conversion means u will not graduate ur MPhil, but straight to PhD instead.

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jubina
post Feb 29 2008, 05:28 PM


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is this applicable to all Degree in malaysia, including UK franchise degree program?
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azarimy
post Feb 29 2008, 05:32 PM


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what is applicable? the honor system? or the MPhil/PhD?
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jubina
post Feb 29 2008, 05:45 PM


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for the Degree honor system, is it all malaysian degree using this system? (CGPA 3.7+ for 1st class)

This post has been edited by jubina: Feb 29 2008, 05:48 PM
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liez
post Feb 29 2008, 06:31 PM


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Got a first class is alot better than 2.1 of course...My sister lost her job interview to a 1st class (while she was 2.1)...Her CV is alot mroe colourful than the other guy.

But...If u wnana look for a job in UK...THey look forward to ur UCAS point as well.U muy have at least 320 UCAS poiont to meet the requirement of interview which is 2A and 1 C in A levels. EVen u got 1st class but get 5 Es in A level...Bye bye...

Getting Phd from degree??? wad is really so good bout Phd...alot UK companies didnt need phd students coy they dun wanna pay high salaries but unable to fully utilise their potential...yea...getting phd may make u a lecturer at the end of the day or u cna oso join WTO...is kinda wasting...and if u specialise at something not really important in phd...u cna hardly get a job becoz there is a minimum salary to masters holders and phd holders..not sure about phd holders but minimum wages for master holders are 3.5k pound a month which makes it 35k pa excluded superior high year end bonus (sometimes year end bonus is even higher than ur salary pa).

I think better take masters and see wad the employers want before step in further.
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azarimy
post Feb 29 2008, 06:46 PM


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QUOTE(jubina @ Feb 29 2008, 09:45 AM)
for the Degree honor system, is it all malaysian degree using this system? (CGPA 3.7+ for 1st class)
*
ok, first of all, dont confuse urself of what honors mean. wiki it to find out better. honors is part of a degree title that indicates a higher level than a general degree. it doesnt mean extra excellence, except for australian degrees. in malaysia, the UK and the rest of the world, u can start a course knowing that ur degree is a honors degree. in australia, u only opt for an honors degree during the final semester. if u score, u add another year and earn an honors degree.

it literally means that u could earn a 1st class degree without honors. why? bcoz the degree does not offer a higher level. honors is also an indicator of professional qualification status. i'll give an example for architecture. to become an architect, u need two degrees:

i. bachelor of science in architecture (3 years)
ii. bachelor of architecture (honors) (2 years)

the honors title carry the professional qualifications. earning the bachelor of science does not qualify u to become an architect. but u can still score a 1st class. u want 1st class honors? go make sure ur degree is an honors degree in the first place, then score. wink.gif
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Disciple
post Feb 29 2008, 08:22 PM


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guys... a question here....
i've been really worried about my cgpa...from what i've heard...a first class honor really matters....even a second upper will not be sufficient as bosses nowadays demand more sweat.gif is that true?
im really worried of not being able to get a job next time... sweat.gif
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azarimy
post Feb 29 2008, 08:46 PM


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if bosses demand more, it's not necessary he will GET more.

however, it is always a good motivation for u to score, isnt it? why would anyone score 1st class if there's not benefit for it?

first class always fare high in the eyes of potential employers. no doubt about that. but first class arent that easy to come by, so frequently employers are "forced" to settle with the lesser 2nd upper heheheh.
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WillHung
post Feb 29 2008, 08:54 PM


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sometimes employers prefer those with 2.1s over firsts. it doesnt matter in the long run, but obviously its preferable to perform well.
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Irzani
post Feb 29 2008, 08:58 PM


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QUOTE(azarimy @ Feb 29 2008, 06:46 PM)
ok, first of all, dont confuse urself of what honors mean. wiki it to find out better. honors is part of a degree title that indicates a higher level than a general degree. it doesnt mean extra excellence, except for australian degrees. in malaysia, the UK and the rest of the world, u can start a course knowing that ur degree is a honors degree. in australia, u only opt for an honors degree during the final semester. if u score, u add another year and earn an honors degree.

it literally means that u could earn a 1st class degree without honors. why? bcoz the degree does not offer a higher level. honors is also an indicator of professional qualification status. i'll give an example for architecture. to become an architect, u need two degrees:

i. bachelor of science in architecture (3 years)
ii. bachelor of architecture (honors) (2 years)

the honors title carry the professional qualifications. earning the bachelor of science does not qualify u to become an architect. but u can still score a 1st class. u want 1st class honors? go make sure ur degree is an honors degree in the first place, then score. wink.gif
*
So,those honor degree is still better than usual degree? Anyway, I've went to academic centre to ask about the honor thing. I try to tell them those bachelor from Computer Science is not an honor, but they laugh to me and said, both are same. This is what I'm getting confuse ..is it true? rclxub.gif

1) Bachelor of Electrical (Kepujian)
(Kelas 1)

2) Bachelor of Computer Science
(Kepujian Kelas 1)

Both are same? rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by Irzani: Feb 29 2008, 09:00 PM
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jubina
post Feb 29 2008, 11:13 PM


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QUOTE(azarimy @ Feb 29 2008, 06:46 PM)
ok, first of all, dont confuse urself of what honors mean. wiki it to find out better. honors is part of a degree title that indicates a higher level than a general degree. it doesnt mean extra excellence, except for australian degrees. in malaysia, the UK and the rest of the world, u can start a course knowing that ur degree is a honors degree. in australia, u only opt for an honors degree during the final semester. if u score, u add another year and earn an honors degree.

it literally means that u could earn a 1st class degree without honors. why? bcoz the degree does not offer a higher level. honors is also an indicator of professional qualification status. i'll give an example for architecture. to become an architect, u need two degrees:

i. bachelor of science in architecture (3 years)
ii. bachelor of architecture (honors) (2 years)

the honors title carry the professional qualifications. earning the bachelor of science does not qualify u to become an architect. but u can still score a 1st class. u want 1st class honors? go make sure ur degree is an honors degree in the first place, then score. wink.gif
*
thks smile.gif
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MiLKTea
post Feb 29 2008, 11:39 PM


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1st class holders have the advantage during screening, yet how you perform during interview and at work matter most...

i am a first class holder, and i got my job within two weeks after i sent the first application, compared to my friends (second class upper/lower) who had to wait for more than one month....

now all of us are working, i realize academic result doesnt really matter, what matter most is your working attitude, behaviour and communication...and of coz, your performance....

so don't lose hope even if you get second class lower....my friends with second class lower can get job in mnc with pretty good salary...

good luck, buddies!! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by MiLKTea: Feb 29 2008, 11:40 PM
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youngkies
post Mar 1 2008, 12:02 AM


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QUOTE(Irzani @ Feb 29 2008, 04:09 PM)
I heard that First Class Graduate can enter straight to PhD,is that true?
*
yes if only if you can satisfy them during the interview too.

QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Feb 29 2008, 04:15 PM)
Good, reputable universities won't allow that. Unless of course your IQ is freaking high.
*
in fact oxford and cambridge have that option too.
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huix
post Mar 1 2008, 12:11 AM


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QUOTE(frags @ Feb 29 2008, 03:06 PM)
While many companies use your results as a barometer for a persons potential, it may not always help. It all depends on how smart you study/learn and work. If you are found to be weak in that position you wont last long regardless whether you got a 1st class or not.

1st class awards are reward for a students effort in university and should not be seen as the ultimate goal of higher education hence you miss the point of the education itself.
*
well, a first class honor student already show "how smart he study/learn and work" as a student. Down the road, it depends on which type of job you are actually doing and most impotantly, your working attitude. Some first class honor student may not have the people skill for the marketing/sales job or rheotic enough. However, this can be trained (so many sales training out there).

Try to get a first class honor and see how hard it is, then you know how smart needed to get the 1st class.

This post has been edited by huix: Mar 1 2008, 12:13 AM
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youngkies
post Mar 1 2008, 12:20 AM


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QUOTE(huix @ Mar 1 2008, 12:11 AM)
well, a first class honor student already show "how smart he study/learn and work" as a student. Down the road, it depends on which type of job you are actually doing and most impotantly, your working attitude. Some first class honor student may not have the people skill for the marketing/sales job or rheotic enough. However, this can be trained (so many sales training out there).

Try to get a first class honor and see how hard it is, then you know how smart needed to get the 1st class.
*
but sadly in real world, smart isn't an important measure to getting 1st class. i have seen 'not so smart' people getting 1st class degree by hardwork and great support.
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cks2k2
post Mar 1 2008, 02:10 AM


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QUOTE(youngkies @ Mar 1 2008, 12:02 AM)
yes if only if you can satisfy them during the interview too.
in fact oxford and cambridge have that option too.
*
I think everyone missed out the part where I said "unless your IQ is freaking high". rclxub.gif whereby I meant there are exceptions but you'd better be really good. rolleyes.gif

My original statement was on various middle-tier unis offering these quick-PhD programs, which I find dubious. There was this 25 year old lady where I used to work who already had a PhD but most of us doubt her qualifications as she got it from a local uni and frankly our unis ain't that great especially when it comes to research.
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Irzani
post Mar 1 2008, 11:50 PM


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In our local university, so many undergraduate manage to get First Class Honor .. but sadly, some of this graduates is really lack of skills and knowledge. Most of the objective is theories where you do only need to read, remember the whole thing, pass the exam and you will get A for that. I admit that there's also a really smart and skillful person, but my experience with a friends which get the first class honor, after finish final semester and rest for 3 month, they know nothing. As the Computer Science students, they forget even the basic of programming, make database application, make a multimedia presentation, networking .. like everything was erased when they manage to get their degree. The only reason they will give is they need to refer to the reference book back since their only objectives is to pass the subject only. And for info, from my observation, it's a common to use one text books (1 whole book) for 1 subject that need to be learned for 4 month only(1 semester) and after that, you will learn a new thing that only a little related to the past subject. Example, learn a multimedia (Flash) for semester 1 and for the next semester, you'll learn 3D subject. And there's no more Flash until grad (This is only example) .

So I would like to ask those graduate in foreign university, is it the common thing to be like that? Or there is a different approach using by the university to make their first class undergraduate students become a succesful and skillful person? Perhaps, when final exam, the question will be very general (the answers not in the books) where you do need to think the answer based on the situation and the knowledge you have gained? More practical, 80%? There's a final exam based on practicality and general knowledge of the situation? Or it's all same .. theories, practical on lab only when needed, only a basic thing learned, just read the whole books, pass exam, and you need to learned all the subject by yourself after graduation?

Thank you

P/s: There's also a first-class-honor friends that managed to cheat using an "electronic-toyol" in the quiz, exam, and final exam without getting caught for 3 years doh.gif . Anyway, until this date(3 month after grad) , there's no job that have been offered to him, this is really weird .. hmm.gif . Anyway, he's really lucky to get the First Class degree .. laugh.gif

Just to know .. notworthy.gif
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imiharrima
post Mar 2 2008, 01:20 AM


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QUOTE(azarimy @ Feb 29 2008, 05:24 PM)
requirements for first class honors are:

i. the degree u're taking is an honors degree.
ii. scoring atleast 3.70cgpa.
on its potentials for PhD, nowadays most schools in the UK adopts the MPhil/PhD format. MPhil is a masters, so intakes are from degree level. MPhil requirement is 2nd class upper (2:1) or 3.00cgpa. after u've finished ur 2 year MPhil, u could opt to convert ur research into a PhD. conversion means u will not graduate ur MPhil, but straight to PhD instead.
*
i thot local uni need only 3.50cgpa?n referring to the reply above,i also wan to know..coz even me learn only abit here a bit there..not concentrate at 1 thing..make me pening what my course really are..

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nikyas
post Mar 2 2008, 01:40 AM


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Yes, 1st class honours will benefit u in terms of getting better employment. Believe me, you want to get a first class degree. It's a competitive world out here. You need to stand out among others.

Does it make you a better workers? Well, it depends on you.

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huix
post Mar 2 2008, 10:34 AM


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QUOTE(youngkies @ Mar 1 2008, 12:20 AM)
but sadly in real world, smart isn't an important measure to getting 1st class. i have seen 'not so smart' people getting 1st class degree by hardwork and great support.
*
Don't worry about it. For those who get support for their 1st honor, sure can be reveal thru performance. At the same time, some university which folk out tons of 1st class honor will eventually compromise thier quality and reputation. My previous company do have rules don't believe in some local private institude becoz of the bad experience had had.


People will judge. After all, no matter how good and sweet talk u can, it is a matter of time to get judgement if you keep fail to deliver your task. Excuses may save us a few times but it won't last forever.


Regarding about 1st class honor can't find work. Afterall, the interview is for the employer to know how good you are....and the skill they write their resume. Your resume and interview process reveal you either u r a true 1sst class honor potential or not. I remember one of my interview, a UM first class honor to interview for a regional project exec role.... first thing he requested during the interview, "Bolehkah kita gunakan BM? kerana English saya tidak baik" He think india/phillipine/HK/SG use BM to communicate. The most saddest was he want 3200 firmly as a fresh grads coz he is UM 1st class who don't speak english well but want to manage project for the region.

This post has been edited by huix: Mar 2 2008, 10:41 AM
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post Mar 2 2008, 11:17 AM


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QUOTE(Irzani @ Mar 1 2008, 11:50 PM)
In our local university, so many undergraduate manage to get First Class Honor .. but sadly, some of this graduates is really lack of skills and knowledge. Most of the objective is theories where you do only need to read, remember the whole thing, pass the exam and you will get A for that. I admit that there's also a really smart and skillful person, but my experience with a friends which get the first class honor, after finish final semester and rest for 3 month, they know nothing. As the Computer Science students, they forget even the basic of programming, make database application, make a multimedia presentation, networking .. like everything was erased when they manage to get their degree. The only reason they will give is they need to refer to the reference book back since their only objectives is to pass the subject only. And for info, from my observation, it's a common to use one text books (1 whole book) for 1 subject that need to be learned for 4 month only(1 semester) and after that, you will learn a new thing that only a little related to the past subject. Example, learn a multimedia (Flash) for semester 1 and for the next semester, you'll learn 3D subject. And there's no more Flash until grad (This is only example) .

So I would like to ask those graduate in foreign university, is it the common thing to be like that? Or there is a different approach using by the university to make their first class undergraduate students become a succesful and skillful person? Perhaps, when final exam, the question will be very general (the answers not in the books) where you do need to think the answer based on the situation and the knowledge you have gained? More practical, 80%? There's a final exam based on practicality and general knowledge of the situation? Or it's all same .. theories, practical on lab only when needed, only a basic thing learned, just read the whole books, pass exam, and you need to learned all the subject by yourself after graduation?

Thank you

P/s: There's also a first-class-honor friends that managed to cheat using an "electronic-toyol" in the quiz, exam, and final exam without getting caught for 3 years  doh.gif . Anyway, until this date(3 month after grad) , there's no job that have been offered to him, this is really weird ..  hmm.gif . Anyway, he's really lucky to get the First Class degree ..  laugh.gif

Just to know ..  notworthy.gif
*
Local graduates with honors title? rolleyes.gif

I dont know about public university but in private university, less than 10% of students only managed to 1st class honors. They are best of the best because they have to demonstrate all they got, in order to achieve 1st class honors. 1st class honors are RARE in private university, they are not like mushrooms in public university, cough*. No offense. rolleyes.gif


Added on March 2, 2008, 11:19 am
QUOTE(Irzani @ Feb 29 2008, 08:58 PM)
So,those honor degree is still better than usual degree? Anyway, I've went to academic centre to ask about the honor thing. I try to tell them those bachelor from Computer Science is not an honor, but they laugh to me and said, both are same. This is what I'm getting confuse ..is it true? rclxub.gif

1) Bachelor of Electrical (Kepujian)
    (Kelas 1)

2) Bachelor of Computer Science
    (Kepujian Kelas 1)

Both are same?  rclxub.gif
*
No, they are different. From my understanding, honors are awarded to student who went through external examiners from UK, England or equivalent. For instance, you enroll in private college/university where they have degree programme/course accredited from UK universities. Local university graduates can never have the title "Honors", thus its just ordinary degree, correct me if I m wrong.


Added on March 2, 2008, 11:31 am
QUOTE(huix @ Mar 2 2008, 10:34 AM)
Regarding about 1st class honor can't find work. Afterall, the interview is for the employer to know how good you are....and the skill they write their resume. Your resume and interview process reveal you either u r a true 1sst class honor potential or not. I remember one of my interview, a UM first class honor to interview for a regional project exec role.... first thing he requested during the interview, "Bolehkah kita gunakan BM? kerana English saya tidak baik" He think india/phillipine/HK/SG use BM to communicate. The most saddest was he want 3200 firmly as a fresh grads coz he is UM 1st class who don't speak english well but want to manage project for the region.
*
lol guess that pretty sums up the quality of 1st class public university. I m not generalizing but the facts have shown. When we are talking abt 1st class honors in private university/college, (taking FYP for example) it's all about your solid english presentations and sophistication of your system, that examiners would like to hear. If your past exams and presentation are IMPRESSIVE, you do stand a chance, or else kiss your 1st class honors goodbye.

This post has been edited by Vv.SoViEt.vV: Mar 2 2008, 11:31 AM
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jcvstlys
post Mar 2 2008, 11:39 AM


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Beside giving extra salary, you will also get to be choosed first during interview.
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dinozilla
post Mar 2 2008, 12:16 PM


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but so n so.....
whether u r 1st or 2nd....
whether it is public u or private u...
in the end performance during work is the whole key...
after all, a 2nd upper from public U still can outperform any 1st from private U/college if put in the right attitude of work....and work hard for it

trust me....having the right attitude is the main thing...
although u might not hav a great head start (better pay..or wat)
but in the process....if u willing to learn, to work
u can outshine the others....bcoz u r showing more value per buck$ to the employer than others.....

it is sort like a race too....one who get ahead tend to be a bit ego...then lack of push...the one behind pushing hard hoping to overtake the one in front....

when i was in U, i jz an 2nd upper...i noticed 1 of my 1st class mate is actually having a less impressive STP result than mine...(some1 must realise it is hard earn chance...so work damn hard....)

when me in my work now...i m from public U, compared to most of the newbis of my batch which is from private U/Col(namely UNITEN/APIIT)
mine really less impressive...so bcome my turn now to push ahead....
end up now i do get better scoring in performance factor compared to few(not all probably...its P&C la...but gossip a bit still can knw slightly ma)

jz don feel ego....grab every chance u can improve urself....
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ikanez
post Mar 2 2008, 12:21 PM


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for me..getting a 2nd upper is gud enuf coz to me, most employers are looking for people who can talk, learn, unlearn, relearn..tht sorts of things.

who cares if you can get 1st class but cant be a team player, have to be spoon fed and so on.

i heard tht some employers also look at wat uni you came from..like they prefer to hire from someone who come from private uni more than local ones.
is it true?
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imiharrima
post Mar 2 2008, 12:47 PM


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all in all,its all down to your attitude n behavior towards your your work..if u play2,dun expect too much la raise salary or promotion..
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ThanatosSwiftfire
post Mar 2 2008, 12:50 PM


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I think it shows 1 of 2 things. 1, hardworking, or 2, brilliant.
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post Mar 2 2008, 12:57 PM


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for fresh graduate ... 1st or 2nd class degree help you 50% in your job hunting ... personal character and behavior help you 50% in your interview process

yes ... employers normally will select candidates from reputable universities
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jcvstlys
post Mar 2 2008, 01:01 PM


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QUOTE(dinozilla @ Mar 2 2008, 12:16 PM)
but so n so.....
whether u r 1st or 2nd....
whether it is public u or private u...
in the end performance during work is the whole key...
after all, a 2nd upper from public U still can outperform any 1st from private U/college if put in the right attitude of work....and work hard for it

trust me....having the right attitude is the main thing...
although u might not hav a great head start (better pay..or wat)
but in the process....if u willing to learn, to work
u can outshine the others....bcoz u r showing more value per buck$ to the employer than others.....

it is sort like a race too....one who get ahead tend to be a bit ego...then lack of push...the one behind pushing hard hoping to overtake the one in front....

when i was in U, i jz an 2nd upper...i noticed 1 of my 1st class mate is actually having a less impressive STP result than mine...(some1 must realise it is hard earn chance...so work damn hard....)

when me in my work now...i m from public U, compared to most of the newbis of my batch which is from private U/Col(namely UNITEN/APIIT)
mine really less impressive...so bcome my turn now to push ahead....
end up now i do get better scoring in performance factor compared to few(not all probably...its P&C la...but gossip a bit still can knw slightly ma)

jz don feel ego....grab every chance u can improve urself....
*
QUOTE(imiharrima @ Mar 2 2008, 12:47 PM)
all in all,its all down to your attitude n behavior towards your your work..if u play2,dun expect too much la raise salary or promotion..
*
anyway, most of you guys are OT la. He's just asking how a first class honor degree can benefits us.
Not who outperform who. We have to consider if both have the same performance and how will a first class and 2nd class differ.
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post Mar 2 2008, 06:09 PM


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QUOTE(jcvstlys @ Mar 2 2008, 05:01 AM)
anyway, most of you guys are OT la. He's just asking how a first class honor degree can benefits us.
Not who outperform who. We have to consider if both have the same performance and how will a first class and 2nd class differ.
*
yes, i agree. and to add to that, how u perform during ur working days CANNOT be assessed or assumed by the prospective employers when they were looking for fresh candidates. so it boils down to who has the highest credentials.

even 2nd class lowers may be excellent at doing their job. but would they stand a chance during the selection process? they might never got the opportunity to exhibit their real capabilities during work if they could not get selected in the first place.
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post Mar 2 2008, 06:20 PM


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QUOTE(Irzani @ Mar 1 2008, 11:50 PM)
So I would like to ask those graduate in foreign university, is it the common thing to be like that? Or there is a different approach using by the university to make their first class undergraduate students become a succesful and skillful person? Perhaps, when final exam, the question will be very general (the answers not in the books) where you do need to think the answer based on the situation and the knowledge you have gained? More practical, 80%? There's a final exam based on practicality and general knowledge of the situation? Or it's all same .. theories, practical on lab only when needed, only a basic thing learned, just read the whole books, pass exam, and you need to learned all the subject by yourself after graduation?
Just to know ..  notworthy.gif
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It varies from uni to uni and course to course. Our honours system in NZ (like Aus) is different from M'sia so let's talk about getting As instead.

For my course, quite a few exams in 3rd and 4th year were open book. That tells you something - the answer can't be found in the book. You have to apply your knowledge to the problem at hand so pure memorising doesn't help, hence the open book system. If you parrot books without addressing the problem, you'll get a C at best. If you address the problem but in a boring, generic way, it's a B. To get an A, you need something different - something creative and original. A-s are possible but As are really a mark of true understanding and skill.

Only 10% of students in my course are invited to do honours (by research). Of that 10%, only 2-3 will get 1st class. Definitely NOT easy.
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kobe8byrant
post Mar 2 2008, 08:38 PM


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Wait wait, just to clarify, if I want a Masters, I'd need a minimum of second-upper?
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post Mar 2 2008, 08:50 PM


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QUOTE(Vv.SoViEt.vV @ Mar 2 2008, 11:17 AM)


Added on March 2, 2008, 11:19 am
No, they are different. From my understanding, honors are awarded to student who went through external examiners from UK, England or equivalent. For instance, you enroll in private college/university where they have degree programme/course accredited from UK universities. Local university graduates can never have the title "Honors", thus its just ordinary degree, correct me if I m wrong.
*
I think you're wrong about "Honours" can only be awarded thru external examiners. The honours system differs widely based on the system used (US, UK, OZ etc) but in general the program is of higher standard than the normal "pass" degree. In the Singapore system only the top students are allowed to do an honours program: they have to do an honours project (very research based and post-grad standard) and take extra advanced subjects. Sometimes they have to teach 1st year students as well.

QUOTE(kobe8byrant @ Mar 2 2008, 08:38 PM)
Wait wait, just to clarify, if I want a Masters, I'd need a minimum of second-upper?
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What did you expect?
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Vv.SoViEt.vV
post Mar 2 2008, 09:59 PM


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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Mar 2 2008, 08:50 PM)
I think you're wrong about "Honours" can only be awarded thru external examiners. The honours system differs widely based on the system used (US, UK, OZ etc) but in general the program is of higher standard than the normal "pass" degree. In the Singapore system only the top students are allowed to do an honours program: they have to do an honours project (very research based and post-grad standard) and take extra advanced subjects. Sometimes they have to teach 1st year students as well.
*
Obviously, you need to elaborate more to clarify your point. If you are studying in Malaysia and you want to get "honors" you still need to pass through external examiners whether they are based in US, UK or AUS. rolleyes.gif

Why do I refer to UK standards? well, it's because our english is following UK standards and most of our twinning programmes are from UK.
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cks2k2
post Mar 2 2008, 10:08 PM


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QUOTE(Vv.SoViEt.vV @ Mar 2 2008, 09:59 PM)
Obviously, you need to elaborate more to clarify your point. If you are studying in Malaysia and you want to get "honors" you still need to pass through external examiners whether they are based in US, UK or AUS. rolleyes.gif

Why do I refer to UK standards? well, it's because our english is following UK standards and most of our twinning programmes are from UK.
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Well I'm talking about the local unis, be it public or private; not twinning programs and the like.
As long as it meets high standards and is recognized by bodies such as MQA, IEM etc these institutions can offer honours programs.
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Vv.SoViEt.vV
post Mar 2 2008, 10:41 PM


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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Mar 2 2008, 10:08 PM)
Well I'm talking about the local unis, be it public or private; not twinning programs and the like.
As long as it meets high standards and is recognized by bodies such as MQA, IEM etc these institutions can offer honours programs.
*
MQA has no honors programmes in their agency. They only have the "equivalent" bachelor degrees, not honors.
IEM has two distinctive programmes under the institution. One being local engineering degree programmes, which mean ordinary local degree. Second being, accredited engineering degree programmes which accredited by oversea universities which carry the title honors. Obviously, students that apply to this programmes would still have to go through external examiners which i have explained earlier.

Hence, by your definition of "high standards and recognized by bodies such as MQA, IEM" produces,

QUOTE
In our local university, so many undergraduate manage to get First Class Honor .. but sadly, some of this graduates is really lack of skills and knowledge.


QUOTE
a UM first class honor to interview for a regional project exec role.... first thing he requested during the interview, "Bolehkah kita gunakan BM? kerana English saya tidak baik

Satisfy yet?
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cks2k2
post Mar 2 2008, 11:05 PM


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QUOTE(Vv.SoViEt.vV @ Mar 2 2008, 10:41 PM)
MQA has no honors programmes in their agency. They only have the "equivalent" bachelor degrees, not honors.
IEM has two distinctive programmes under the institution. One being local engineering degree programmes, which mean ordinary local degree. Second being, accredited engineering degree programmes which accredited by oversea universities which carry the title honors. Obviously, students that apply to this programmes would still have to go through external examiners which i have explained earlier.

Hence, by your definition of "high standards and recognized by bodies such as MQA, IEM" produces,
Satisfy yet?
*
Go to BEM's website and look for accreditation credentials for local unis (public or private).
See how many Hons degree offered.
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manjanoty
post Mar 2 2008, 11:19 PM


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Regarding to this issue, My degree is an honour one.. and i get first class honour degree in a local public uni which won the Prime Minister's Quality Award for sector awam and my course gained accreditation from Institute of Biomedical Science in UK. And the undergraduate and postgraduate courses offered in my uni also undergone those ISO certifications..

I am a scholar for CCM (Chemical Company Malaysia) and working in R & D pharmaceutical line for CCM now. What i learned in my uni is different from my work place as it mostly involves with chemicals and what my course is more to medical science/health care...
Even i get first class honour degree, i still need to learn and learn in my workplace...
Undoubtely, getting a good result is one of the key factor in hunting a job for fresh grad, but in my opinon, for future career development, working experiences, communication skills and your determination in chasing a victory are more important...

I plan to further my studies for a better future...
smile.gif


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spunkberry
post Mar 3 2008, 12:20 AM


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From what I hear around my campus right now, Honors is only offered to first years. After that, the H on your diploma means nothing to anybody except yourself and very few select companies who only look to hire Honors students.

Which I don't understand because the test averages for Honors students is extremely low. They say they do that because the work is tough...but if you get a 48% and still pass Honors with a B, how does that make an Honors student good?
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post Mar 3 2008, 05:36 AM


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QUOTE(spunkberry @ Mar 2 2008, 04:20 PM)
From what I hear around my campus right now, Honors is only offered to first years. After that, the H on your diploma means nothing to anybody except yourself and very few select companies who only look to hire Honors students.

Which I don't understand because the test averages for Honors students is extremely low. They say they do that because the work is tough...but if you get a 48% and still pass Honors with a B, how does that make an Honors student good?
*
u see, this is the thing. u assumed that the honours title has something to do with performance. IT DOESNT. not in malaysian/UK systems anyways.

honours in malaysia simply means a degree with higher specialization or it carries a certain professional qualifications. when u start ur degree, u will already know whether ur degree is an honours degree or not. having an honours means ur degree has a certain amount of research or independent study that usually takes form in a final year project, dissertation or thesis. completing ur degree with atleast 2.00cgpa qualifies u with an honours degree. anything lower than that u will only obtain a general degree.

a top achiever may gain a title called Bachelor of BLABLABLA (Honours) with Distinction. now THAT is an indicator of high achievements. not honours.



then we move on to australian and new zealand system, where the honours is an extended degree that is only offered to top achievers towards the end of their general degrees. adding 1 year to their studies will allow them to obtain an honours degree.



so why do certain companies look for honours students only? two reasons:

i. because they need a specialized graduate with a professional qualifications; or

ii. they're confused what honours mean.


Added on March 3, 2008, 5:38 am
QUOTE(Vv.SoViEt.vV @ Mar 2 2008, 02:41 PM)
MQA has no honors programmes in their agency. They only have the "equivalent" bachelor degrees, not honors.
IEM has two distinctive programmes under the institution. One being local engineering degree programmes, which mean ordinary local degree. Second being, accredited engineering degree programmes which accredited by oversea universities which carry the title honors. Obviously, students that apply to this programmes would still have to go through external examiners which i have explained earlier.

Hence, by your definition of "high standards and recognized by bodies such as MQA, IEM" produces,
Satisfy yet?
*
gee, i can show u my undergraduate degree with honours from UTM, accredited by LAN/MQA, and recognized by both malaysian board of architects as well UK and other commonwealth countries. although we do go through external examiners, it's not a requirement to get an honours degree. honours degree is awarded REGARDLESS if there's any external examiners or not.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Mar 3 2008, 05:38 AM
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Vv.SoViEt.vV
post Mar 3 2008, 08:37 AM


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QUOTE(azarimy @ Mar 3 2008, 05:36 AM)
gee, i can show u my undergraduate degree with honours from UTM, accredited by LAN/MQA, and recognized by both malaysian board of architects as well UK and other commonwealth countries. although we do go through external examiners, it's not a requirement to get an honours degree. honours degree is awarded REGARDLESS if there's any external examiners or not.
*
Then you have to provide one that certified in UK without having external examiners then. It's not the requirement but it's in the process of getting one. Even if you DO have one and you would rather trust local professional to accredit your certification than overseas professionals? kudos to you.

cks2k2, you are forgetting the point why we are arguing in the first place.
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post Mar 3 2008, 11:30 AM


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1st class honor degree = 1st on the interviewers' list

but it's useless if during the interview they found out your communication

skill not so 1st class. whistling.gif



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post Mar 3 2008, 06:47 PM


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QUOTE(Vv.SoViEt.vV @ Mar 3 2008, 12:37 AM)
Then you have to provide one that certified in UK without having external examiners then. It's not the requirement but it's in the process of getting one. Even if you DO have one and you would rather trust local professional to accredit your certification than overseas professionals? kudos to you.

cks2k2, you are forgetting the point why we are arguing in the first place.
*
dude, u're missing the point totally.

external examination is a process of acquiring second opinion on the programme a school runs. it has nothing to do with whether the school will award honours or not. not in malaysian IPTAs, not anywhere. if UK schools offer the top honours degrees around, who would be their external examiners? malaysians?

external examination verifies that what a school offers is at par with what other schools in the world are offering. i've been in that process, and i've been an external examiner myself.
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post Mar 3 2008, 09:14 PM


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QUOTE(azarimy @ Feb 29 2008, 05:24 PM)
requirements for first class honors are:

i. the degree u're taking is an honors degree.
ii. scoring atleast 3.70cgpa.
on its potentials for PhD, nowadays most schools in the UK adopts the MPhil/PhD format. MPhil is a masters, so intakes are from degree level. MPhil requirement is 2nd class upper (2:1) or 3.00cgpa. after u've finished ur 2 year MPhil, u could opt to convert ur research into a PhD. conversion means u will not graduate ur MPhil, but straight to PhD instead.
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3.70 !?
wow...
1st class honour is just not the same.
all the thing u did is Perfect.
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post Mar 3 2008, 09:30 PM


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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Feb 29 2008, 04:15 PM)
Good, reputable universities won't allow that. Unless of course your IQ is freaking high.
*
nope... i guess you dont really know what you are talking about...

phd is based on research... you wont be able to publish a proper paper unless you know what you are doing... getting 1st class honours shows that you excel well in ur studies and you will be able to justify what you write...

QUOTE(jubina @ Feb 29 2008, 05:45 PM)
for the Degree honor system, is it all malaysian degree using this system? (CGPA 3.7+ for 1st class)
*
nope.... some aus unis use grades...

QUOTE(azarimy @ Mar 3 2008, 05:36 AM)
u see, this is the thing. u assumed that the honours title has something to do with performance. IT DOESNT. not in malaysian/UK systems anyways.

honours in malaysia simply means a degree with higher specialization or it carries a certain professional qualifications. when u start ur degree, u will already know whether ur degree is an honours degree or not. having an honours means ur degree has a certain amount of research or independent study that usually takes form in a final year project, dissertation or thesis. completing ur degree with atleast 2.00cgpa qualifies u with an honours degree. anything lower than that u will only obtain a general degree.

a top achiever may gain a title called Bachelor of BLABLABLA (Honours) with Distinction. now THAT is an indicator of high achievements. not honours.
then we move on to australian and new zealand system, where the honours is an extended degree that is only offered to top achievers towards the end of their general degrees. adding 1 year to their studies will allow them to obtain an honours degree.
so why do certain companies look for honours students only? two reasons:

i. because they need a specialized graduate with a professional qualifications; or

ii. they're confused what honours mean.


Added on March 3, 2008, 5:38 am

gee, i can show u my undergraduate degree with honours from UTM, accredited by LAN/MQA, and recognized by both malaysian board of architects as well UK and other commonwealth countries. although we do go through external examiners, it's not a requirement to get an honours degree. honours degree is awarded REGARDLESS if there's any external examiners or not.
*
not all is above 2.0... my uni's requirement is 2.4

QUOTE(munak991 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:14 PM)
3.70 !?
wow...
1st class honour is just not the same.
all the thing u did is Perfect.
*
not quite right actually... but it is a good indication you are doing well...

to TS... ur england a bit... rclxub.gif
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post Mar 3 2008, 11:51 PM


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QUOTE(munak991 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:14 PM)
3.70 !?
wow...
1st class honour is just not the same.
all the thing u did is Perfect.
*
UPM - 3.75 sweat.gif

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post Mar 4 2008, 12:05 AM


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but that doesnt mean it is equivelent with others... all internally marked
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post Apr 8 2008, 11:12 AM


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QUOTE(Irzani @ Mar 3 2008, 11:51 PM)
UPM - 3.75  sweat.gif
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Hi all,

Is there any standard that we can define the CGPA score of "First Class" in local university, either public or private?
Through this thread, I see some of the forumers clarified that the CGPA score of "First Class" in some universities is 3.70, some said 3.75.
I always heard friends asking about the CGPA score of "First Class", but I am confused and do not know the answer. rclxub.gif

Thanks all for help. notworthy.gif
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post Apr 8 2008, 12:00 PM


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QUOTE(kobe8byrant @ Mar 2 2008, 08:38 PM)
Wait wait, just to clarify, if I want a Masters, I'd need a minimum of second-upper?
*
there are a wide range of Masters programmes, entry requirements will vary and also depend on which Uni you are trying to enrol in...not all require a minimum second upper hons nor are qualificiations the sole criterion on which they base they admissions. Even though u might not hit the required hons classification, imo, if you're not that far off from the requirement and have work experience and other qualifications (or good references) as well, you may still have a chance. Admissions officers consider a wide range of issues for postgrad qualifications especially.
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post Apr 8 2008, 01:29 PM


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I think you is a little bit confused on the concept of external examiners. As external examiners myself I will visit unis to check on whether their prog. have achieve certain standard.

Honor system differ from unis to unis, not only country to country. Sometime one need to top up another yr/semester for honors, sometime the degree itself is a honors degree to start with (you cannot graduate without hons).Sometime your CGPA is low then your degree will be without hons.etc..etc... So check with the unis. In Malaysia hons is kepujian.

Although many seem to favour private unis, I don't think highly to much of these profit oriented comp. I have seen many student who pay their way to degree. Some documented case are even discussed in BEM and MQA.

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huix
post Apr 8 2008, 11:22 PM


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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Feb 29 2008, 02:22 PM)
Higher starting pay, around RM300 more in some companies.
Boss will have higher expectation of you though, but if you're good you'll become the "go-to" guy really quick.
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That should be the reason you wanna work hard. "Go-to" means more work, more works means more performance and get promoted.
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param124
post Apr 9 2008, 11:46 AM


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I dunno wat is written above ...just my opinion...1st class degree is important...but more important that that is your NETWORKING with people in looking for jobs. Its pointless if you score well in exams but sacrifice all good fun time where you could have spend meeting people...its important too do well in exam but communication skills for me is the most highest priority...U must do well in exams...because when u send your resume to a company if you are a 1st class student they may just directly put u up for interview...whereas for secondclass the may Consider u for interview...

I personelly feel...1st class degree is not that important...i think everyone should work whiloe studying gain some work experience...it will help manage your time better as well make you an experience work force in the future...IN other words...experience is more important than your 1st class...

Just my 2cents
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Catty
post Apr 17 2008, 11:58 PM


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manjanoty:
which U???

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Pmc
post Apr 18 2008, 02:02 AM


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I still think 1st class degree still important for the starting when you want to apply for the jobs.. as what other forumer said, 1st class degree is listed first.. But when interviewing, it will shows ur capability.. But letsay, A with 1st class degree and B with 2nd class.. A and B perform equally well in the interview, i think there's no chance for the company to pick B? Since they have nothing to lose if they pick A, as they perform equally. EVEN though in future, B might surpass A, but A will get the job first.. Am I rite?
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StrikeZ
post Apr 18 2008, 08:32 AM


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By the way, is there a difference between First Class Degree and First Class Honour ?
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MangKoK^ayon
post Apr 18 2008, 08:38 AM


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1st class degree must come with 1st class communication skills also...then there is benefit smile.gif
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empire23
post Apr 18 2008, 08:54 AM


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In my opinion it's just to get you a job but everything after that is up to your "other" skills.

In the Power Engineering Industry, if you have a first class degree from say ANU, they'd still probably laugh at you. Say you came from some backwater uni with 3rd class under your belt, but at the same time you have power auditing skills, basic industry work experience, transformer design research and they'll hire you on the spot.

Depending on the field, as i say, knowledge can be taught, but competence has to be learned.
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Rendezvous
post Apr 18 2008, 04:49 PM


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Why has pursuing good grades become something that is motivated by how your prospective employers look at you and the 'what's in it for me' attitude?

You get a first class, good for you and the world still don't owe you a living. You get a third class, you asked for it and its not the end of the world. Simple.


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nikeshock
post Apr 18 2008, 05:34 PM


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Compare 1st class honors and diploma holders.
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selenium
post Apr 18 2008, 06:39 PM


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tak payah bayar PTPTN.

now if u appeal got 30% chance they will consider ur appeal

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bennyhwl
post Apr 19 2008, 12:39 PM


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erm? i think should be more easy to find job and secure a chance of interview. I am 1st class also, and when during interview, i saw some of the interviewer will circle my CGPA in my resume. It is still an important point although u got experience already. Besides, normally i will called by all the job that i applied for and they will ask me go for the interview. -.-

But it also depends on how u impress the interviewer during the interview. If u can impress him, i think ur chance of getting the job will be quite high. -.-
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mushimuro
post Apr 19 2008, 02:49 PM


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QUOTE(azarimy @ Feb 29 2008, 11:46 AM)
ok, first of all, dont confuse urself of what honors mean. wiki it to find out better. honors is part of a degree title that indicates a higher level than a general degree. it doesnt mean extra excellence, except for australian degrees. in malaysia, the UK and the rest of the world, u can start a course knowing that ur degree is a honors degree.
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how bout the US? My boyfriend studies in the US doing some sciences related degree. I used to think that all countries awarded honours degree sans australia (since my parents used to study there, and my mum has explained all to me dah).. but then my mum asked my bf and he said he didn't opt for the honors degree programme.. so how come?? (and my bf tak explain dgn betul sangat.. or at least he seemed a bit blur to me la)

QUOTE(youngkies @ Feb 29 2008, 05:02 PM)
yes if only if you can satisfy them during the interview too.
in fact oxford and cambridge have that option too.
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i've got friends who got offered to do phD straight after their degree from cambridge (cambridge degree).. but i guess it depends on the discretion of your supervisors la.. i mean, if ur supervisors like u and how u worked in ur third year project, then he could just take you la, kan?


QUOTE(huix @ Feb 29 2008, 05:11 PM)
Try to get a first class honor and see how hard it is, then you know how smart needed to get the 1st class.
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it depends on the degree that u're doing and the uni that u're in. physical sciences(maths, physics, engineering) related are the easiest cause their exams involve mostly numbers and calculations which have definite answers. subjects or universities which require you to write lots of essays for ur exams are the hardest cause u have to have a flair for writing on top of everything else. and the exam is very subjectively marked.

Nevertheless, a first class does help u to get jobs with the likes of mckinsey, accenture, and all those high paying investment banking jobs..

QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Feb 29 2008, 07:10 PM)
My original statement was on various middle-tier unis offering these quick-PhD programs, which I find dubious. There was this 25 year old lady where I used to work who already had a PhD but most of us doubt her qualifications as she got it from a local uni and frankly our unis ain't that great especially when it comes to research.
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ala.. what la. local unis obv not as good as some overseas unis, but still not that bad..
banyak aje mat salleh graduate with a phd at 25.. my bro graduated from cambridge with a phd at 27. being a malaysian who did two years a level, he is two years older than most of his mat salleh friends (unless they did a gap year).. so 27-2=25 years old la.. u can't not believe in a person's phd just because they're still young. her degree is more valid than lets say someone who bought their phd from those fluke unis.. like irish international university (which a certain celebrity - fazley - said he got his masters or something from).. my point is, they were smart, they were offered to do their phd right after their degree (or MEng in cambridge - bro's an engineer) and they finished their phd quickly cause they had no one to sponsor them after their scholarship ends..

QUOTE(Irzani @ Mar 1 2008, 04:50 PM)
In our local university, so many undergraduate manage to get First Class Honor .. but sadly, some of this graduates is really lack of skills and knowledge. Most of the objective is theories where you do only need to read, remember the whole thing, pass the exam and you will get A for that. I admit that there's also a really smart and skillful person, but my experience with a friends which get the first class honor, after finish final semester and rest for 3 month, they know nothing. As the Computer Science students, they forget even the basic of programming, make database application, make a multimedia presentation, networking .. like everything was erased when they manage to get their degree. The only reason they will give is they need to refer to the reference book back since their only objectives is to pass the subject only. And for info, from my observation, it's a common to use one text books (1 whole book) for 1 subject that need to be learned for 4 month only(1 semester) and after that, you will learn a new thing that only a little related to the past subject. Example, learn a multimedia (Flash) for semester 1 and for the next semester, you'll learn 3D subject. And there's no more Flash until grad (This is only example) .
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maybe as you said, the way the exams were done? and also the attitude of the students. and also the motivation that we give the students nowadays. we tell them to pass exams as oppose to learn stuff.. personally, i'm not a first class student, and although my mum's a uni lecturer, she doesn't mind that. she understands the degree i'm studying is hard, and also she wants me to enjoy uni life. join sports, meet new people, new environment... and i think her approach is good. cause i'm not afraid to make mistakes, and without the pressure from my parents, i feel that i'm in university to learn as oppose to just score results tak kisah cara apa...

QUOTE
People will judge. After all, no matter how good and sweet talk u can, it is a matter of time to get judgement if you keep fail to deliver your task. Excuses may save us a few times but it won't last forever.

exactly!! for the students with average (which is a 2.2) result, they probably have to rely on their interview to get them into a good company. the thing is, the company will have to take the risk of taking someone with lots of talk, but no results (yet!) as opposed to someone who got a first which inevitably proves that they are able to face the pressures and perform at the same time.
in the end, u can't blame the companies who give an upper hand to first class students... (i'm so contradicting myself here tongue.gif)

QUOTE
Regarding about 1st class honor can't find work. Afterall, the interview is for the employer to know how good you are....and the skill they write their resume. Your resume and interview process reveal you either u r a true 1sst class honor potential or not. I remember one of my interview, a UM first class honor to interview for a regional project exec role.... first thing he requested during the interview, "Bolehkah kita gunakan BM? kerana English saya tidak baik" He think india/phillipine/HK/SG use BM to communicate. The most saddest was he want 3200 firmly as a fresh grads coz he is UM 1st class who don't speak english well but want to manage project for the region.

the fact that he demanded something pun dah pelik. u're a fresh graduate. i don't think u can put that much demand on the companies jugak.. and @huix, speak for urself.. ur england also not very good.. most saddest - never heard that before..

but u can't say that the kid who got a first from um was a FIRST CLASS POTENTIAL. he got a first class.. maybe his classes were taught in full bm, which helped him get the results, but did not help him improve his english.. but that doesn't mean u can say that he is not a first class student.. saying that means u're saying that those people studying in france/germany/nonenglish speaking countries don't deserve their first class cause of the language the unis decide to use?
but in the student's case, he shouldn't have demanded so much, knowing that he only has a first degree and is not very proficient in the english language.


QUOTE
erm? i think should be more easy to find job and secure a chance of interview. I am 1st class also, and when during interview, i saw some of the interviewer will circle my CGPA in my resume. It is still an important point although u got experience already. Besides, normally i will called by all the job that i applied for and they will ask me go for the interview. -.-

really? most people i meet, they say that ur grades don't matter after u have ur job dah.. or u continue ur studies.. an example would be my dad.. during his degree programme, he kinda failed one of the years and had to be moved from a uni to a college to do his degree.. but then he redeemed himself and managed to do a masters in australia.. and later, he did his phd in cambridge.. and because he can really talk and order people around on top of everything else, he works in oil and gas and was a ceo in one of the sime darby subsidiaries. so ur results may be important, but after furthering ur studies and obtaining experience while working, ur first degree doesn't mean anything.. my bro did a degree in manufacturing engineering, and only now (after tukar 2 kali kerja) that he is sort of utilizing his degree.. though the company that employed him looked at his performance in the previous job and his interview; not his masters or first degree.. in the end, it is just a stepping stone to start ur working life, but by no means determine how u end up like in the end..

extra: i'm quite shocked someone didn't point this out.. but when getting a job, connections are important as well. my mum has a not so fantastic student who got to work with the likes of sime darby cause he guna orang dalam.. whistling.gif
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ldhong
post Sep 29 2008, 08:31 PM


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want to ask whether 3rd class degree can find jobs or work not ? allright, here is my situation...Let's say i failed during my final sem....Giving options of either repeating the whole subjects or just graduate, attend convo with 3rd class...THe problem here is i already work, kinda no mood go back to study and attend class all over again...The company that hired me now is the company that i did my internships....

So, want to ask is Degree with (honours) important ??? In term of job hopping, switching job next time and promotion ?
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ThanatosSwiftfire
post Sep 29 2008, 08:50 PM


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it helps u get ur first job i guess
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sanji-kun
post Sep 29 2008, 09:04 PM


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the dean at my engineering faculty once told me, "u can strive for first-class honor,but whenever possible,keep your CGPA away from the flat 4.u wouldn't want to scare your interviewer later." laugh.gif


Added on September 29, 2008, 9:09 pm
QUOTE(ldhong @ Sep 29 2008, 08:31 PM)
want to ask whether 3rd class degree can find jobs or work not ? allright, here is my situation...Let's say i failed during my final sem....Giving options of either repeating the whole subjects or just graduate, attend convo with 3rd class...THe problem here is i already work, kinda no mood go back to study and attend class all over again...The company that hired me now is the company that i did my internships....

So, want to ask is Degree with (honours) important ??? In term of job hopping, switching job next time and promotion ?
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i guess when your experience level is adequate enough, employers wouldn't really care which class you're in. cool2.gif

This post has been edited by sanji-kun: Sep 29 2008, 09:09 PM
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Xziled
post Sep 29 2008, 10:11 PM


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it gives u the upperhand when choosing between candidates. eg. if u c 1st class and a general pass holder, who would rather choose? simple as that. But of course ur employer won't know till they actually start work to know whether they r competent or capable or not. So in the absence of that of course they can only judge u by seeing ur qualifications
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youngkies
post Sep 30 2008, 01:36 PM


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real life example. you can skip master degree straight away to PhD degree. (of course depends on the uni offer)
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louishayashi
post Feb 10 2009, 01:11 AM


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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Feb 29 2008, 04:15 PM)
Good, reputable universities won't allow that. Unless of course your IQ is freaking high.
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Is USM considered as reputable Uni?
some UK uni allows dirrect jump form 1st degree to phD...

For instance, USM does for those who get 1st class in USM... FYI, USM-Chemical Engineering plots a statistical graph for every batch and only accknowledges 2-5 students out of 80++ as 1st class student...(high competitive conditions in USM chemE).

Auckland Universiry allows direct jump to phD from undergraduate with cgpa of 3.70 although it may not b accreditted as 1st class by USM chemE...
depends...
tongue.gif

It is subjected to the decisions of the respective dean of school for which u wannna apply.


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andrienne
post Feb 10 2009, 04:05 PM


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need to ask something not very related :

i am taking aussie degree program and there isn't (HONS) as it's for UK degree. so i am thinking, how to apply for jobs? i see most of those reputable companies all put 2nd upper class and above. but the cert i am getting is not going to indicate which class i'm going to be in. it's either going to be (in distinction) or (in high distinction). does HD means 1st class and D means 2nd upper class?
will i get rejected because of tht? or should i send in the application together with all my pass results to show tht i'm not tht 'bad'?

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fiqz4ce
post Dec 9 2009, 07:23 AM


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does the university is verified by PSD?
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