PAM is a private association of architects, like a social club. It represents the architectural professional. It is not compulsory to join as a member even if you are a registered architect though.

LAM is a regulatory government body under the Ministry of Works empowered under the Architect's Act to keep a register of Architects. It acts like the police, to enforce professional conduct among Architects. Errant architects are liable to be disciplined by LAM. You have to be registered with LAM to practise architecture in Malaysia. The name 'Architect' is protected and only those registered with LAM are allowed to call themselves Architects and have the designation Ar. in front of their name.

In practice, PAM and LAM work closely together with the former acting as advisor to the latter.
It is the same with the other professions e.g. Institute of Engineers vs Board of Engineers(govt), Malaysian Medical Association vs Malaysian Medical Council(govt).

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 18 2009, 04:17 PM

Have they done away with the diploma course now in UTM?
I know of many who, after finishing their diploma in UTM, opted to do their B.Arch. overseas in UK, Australia and NZ. They have been doing that since those days (70's) when UTM was known as Technical College, then ITK, then UTM.

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Added on April 21, 2009, 3:12 pmI'd like to add that while design is the core activity, the study of Architeture is multi-faceted i.e it covers many fields of knowledge - the Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Humanities, Management, etc. You have to know a lot more than just drawing pretty pictures to come up with buildings which are functional, aesthetically pleasing, sound, durable, cost effective and environmentally friendly. Perhaps, this is what makes it interesting. In a way, you have to be quite an all-rounder to do well. After all, you'll be taking on the role as the leader of the multi-disciplinary building team when you graduate.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 21 2009, 03:14 PM

That's strange cos I see the trend for universities in western countries which have been offering the fulll 5-year course to change to awarding an intermediate degree before the B.Arch., equivalent to Part I.
And I just found out that the UTM Diploma is not recognized for Part I. Strange, considering it has been around the longest

http://lam.gov.my/List/Malaysia.htm

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 22 2009, 11:11 AM

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 22 2009, 01:46 PM

Really I am surprised. If this is so, it should be stated somewhere in the course information. Care to give some online link?


I have had students from USM and UTM undergoing training at my firm in the past but for only for 3-month period. That's the course requirement it seems but it's way too short to be effective. Guess it's better than nothing.




Simple stuff for Part 2 and more complicated for Part 1? Seems like terbalik to me.
I have checked with the 'Criteria for Accreditation' for LAM and ARB of UK. There are remarkably similar. Seems LAM has adopted the ARB standards wholesale. But nowhere does it say that the two components you mentioned have to be complied with.
http://lam.gov.my/accreditation3.html
http://www.arb.org.uk/education/arb-criteria/part-1.shtml


I think UTM Diploma is not recognized for Part I not so much because of the course content but rather it does not comply with this requirement from LAM:


Not that all of the above matters once you are out in practice.

Actually, I went through my architectural studies without knowing what Part I, II or III was about. It is actually a RIBA thing which does not have much relevance in the local context. Either you are an architect or you are not.

Well, if there is to be another round of screening after the first degree, it should be clearly spelt out in the prospectus or course information so that students know what they are in for before they enrol for the course.
The ordeal of going through an architectural degree course is bad enough without such hurdles along the way.



I'm not so sure about that..unless you are talking about highrise housing within a mixed development.
Anyway, the scale of a project does not necessarily equate with the level of complexity or difficulty.



BTW, do you have any idea why architecture degrees from NUS, HK, US (not even Harvard) with all the world-class univs are not in LAM's recognized list after all these years? Whereas almost all of the architecture degrees from UK/Aust/NZ (with some really obscure ones which any Tom, d*** or Harry can get in) are recognized. Methinks it's not all about meritocracy when it comes to accreditation.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 23 2009, 12:38 PM

No, architects do draw and sketch a lot. Designing is all about sketching. Engineers mostly use calculations to do their designs which can be done using computer software. The methods and formulae are fixed, all that is required is to input the required data. But designers (be they in graphic design, industrial design, interior design, architectural design, landscape design, urban design, etc) go through sketches to come up with their designs. Well, I suppose you can also 'sketch' on the computer screen but that's not what is normally done. It is through sketching that ideas are visualized, evolve, take shape, are developed, refined, and finally presented on drawings. It is a thinking process. Writers think with words, designers think with sketches. Draughting software is used in the drawing up of the finalised sketches in a more accurate and presentable form.

Sweaty hands? Try using talcum powder/baby powder like what what the gymnasts use to perform on the bars.
Seriously, professional draughtsman do sprinkle powder on drawings before dusting off with a feather duster. Try not use your hand wipe to off eraser debris from the drawing surface. What is 'seret'?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 23 2009, 10:31 PM

NUS degree from our next door neighbour is accredited by RIBA but is not recognized by LAM. And there are quite a number of graduates from NUS in Malaysia. But generally, they don't have much problem getting through the LAM Part II exam though. The degree from HK is also RIBA accredited but not in LAM's list.

Agree with you, there are too many unis in US to deal with and there is huge disparity of standards between the good ones and the lousy ones. I understand one can gain entry into some of the US unis by using the SPM cert.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 24 2009, 03:43 PM

Cheok
No names are mentioned so it doesn't make any difference to those who read it.
Are you from Sarawak by any chance?

Izamira

First of all, could you tell us whether you are Malaysian or from another country since I notice you stated in your personal data that you are from Japan.

1. Mechanical Engineering and Architecture are two different and unrelated fields. Well, there are mechanical installations too in buildings like those for air-conditioning,mechanical ventilation fire-fighting, lifts, escalators, etc which are designed by mechanical engineers. Civil engineering would have more relevance to architecture since it covers the structural aspects of a building. There is no advantage to have a mechanical engineering degree in terms of getting cross credits to embark on a degree in architecture. You will have to start right from the beginning of the 5-year course.

2. Yes, people from other disciplines can do a M.Arch because it is such a wide field. For example, you can do an M.Arch in a specialized area of Architecture such as Construction, Architectural History, Environmental Science, Project Management, etc not necessarily to do with the core activity of an architect which is architectural design. An M.Arch is an academic degree and does not grant you Part I and II status which are required for practice in the profession.

3. The design of the roof gardens in the project would have to be the architect since it is an integral part of the building. The design of the softscape i.e. the planting could be done by the landscape architect. However, there are architects who also do landscape design, interior design and town planning as well. But you do not have the reverse happening - landscape architects, interior designers, town planners designing buildings.
Yes, roof gardens and other recreational facilites like swimming pool on the roof are common features in Malaysia too especially in highrise developments like condominiums where open space and space for recreation is scarce.

4. I am also new here, I haven't read the part about lifestyle. Yes, it is a very involved and demanding profession, you have to be totally committed, to be successful. By virtue of their training, architects tend to look at the things around them, the physical world, differently.

5.
Ask yourself, do you have some creative talent, appreciation/inclination for the arts, like to draw, and see your ideas turned into reality and have the will/determination/discipline to go through five-year rigorous course of study. If your answers are positive, then you are the right candidate for the course.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 25 2009, 09:42 PM

Izamira

Engineering and architecture courses do have some subjects/topics in common in the lst year - subjects like maths, material science, chemistry, basic draughting. That's where the similarity ends.

The study of engineering and architecture calls for different aptitudes. For engineering, one has to be strong in maths and science, to be analytical, methodical, good at problem-solving and to a lesser extent, to be creative. Architectural study calls for qualities I mentioned - being creative, artistic, have good taste and appreciation for the arts, able to sketch and draw reasonably well and being meticulous and have the capacity for details.
So, you have got your engineering degree and is working. I admire your determination in pursuing your interest in a totally different field even though you have gone that far in engineering.

As for the recognition of architecture degrees in Malaysia, LAM basically gives recognition to foreign degrees from the Commonwealth countries which are based on the British RIBA system. The list can be found here:
http://lam.gov.my/accreditationlist.html
Where the degree is not recognized, you can sit for LAM's Part 1 and II exams to be on par with graduates from recognized schools. The is what graduates from US and Singapore have been doing.

"to look differently" -
Generally, architects tend to be more sensitive and conscious of the built environment around them, being involved in the creation, from the design of a door to the planning of a city.

" I don't hate drawing but it's not exactly one of my hobby either. I do like other kind of creative arts. Ok, I admit , I'm really bad at drawing things I imagine inside my mind & my drawing looks worst than primary school children. However I could draw by observation and creative in other areas. I wonder is it the same with all people who could draw well?"

You don't need to be a great artist but you should have reasonable drawing skills. Life would be quite miserable for you if you hate to draw cos, like it or not, there is a lot of drawings involved in architecture, both during study and when you are out in practice. Of course, the computer has radically changed the way work is done nowadays in terms of draughting and presentation.
I know of people who were struggling through architectural studies and switched to do Engineering. They did well after that and completed their engineering degrees without problem. This is why aptitude is very important, certain people have it, certain people don't.

"first I must take B.Sc in Architecture 3 years in IPTA & then I can continue part II as B.Arch/M.Arch right? And after that, I get LAM Pt. 1 (other than UM & UiTM) but not RIBA Pt. I, and still able to continue my studies in foreign countries such as UK without RIBA Pt.I. Am I correct?

Yes, you can do that. It's not only the time, studying architecture overseas nowadays requires big $$, unless you're one of those lucky ones to get a scholarship.

"Another thing, since I have B.Sc in Engineering, does this make me the same level as A-Level students? Are UIAM and UKM the only university that I can apply? Although I took ASASI at UM long time ago, but I think it's no longer applicable just like the SPM certificate"

With your lst degree, you should be eligible to gain admission into another degree course in a different field.
The ASASI course is uni-specific I thought, you can't use that for applying to another university..not that it matters to you. How did you apply to study Engineering in Japan if you hadn't had your STPM/A-level/Pre-U qualification in the first place?

Azarimy would be in a better position to advice you on architectural study in Malaysia, since he is in that field.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 26 2009, 03:50 PM

Azarimy
I believe all the Malaysian U's do require a BArch for entry into the MArch programme. Some of the foreign U's are flexible to allow entry into MArch from other disciplines, for research into areas other than architectural design.

One of the U's in UK* I remember conducts a 6-yr course and awards the MArch straight without the BArch.

Which masters carry a Part 3? Anyway, Part 3 from UK is not exempted from LAM Part 3. Unlike for Law, where those who do their Bar in UK are exempted from CLP in Malaysia.

*OK, it's the Bath Uni.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 27 2009, 12:32 PM

What are the problems? Low passing rate? Is it any more difficult than RIBA Part 3?
I know that there are those who can draw and design but are not good at exams. It has to do with the fact that most of the assessment in the architectural course is based on projects/course work.

the problem with LAM part 3 is that the syllabus is not tangible enough. a candidate is expected to learn EVERYTHING

there are too many gray areas in LAM part 3 exam that is up for dispute.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't think so. The exam basically covers 2 areas - Professional Practice and Building Legislation.
Most of the stuff under Professional Practice is actually a revision of what you learned during BArch course. Things like professional ethics, code of conduct, building contract, contract admin are not new. I find that the 3 levels of PP course we went through for BArch covered a lot more.

Building Legislation deals with local building by-laws, Acts and procedures, most of which are again based on British codes/standards, which would be familiar to a graduate from one of the 'LAM's recognized schools'. The stuff learned in school would also have been reinforced after some years of working experience before taking the exam.

LAM/PAM have been conducting the Part 3 exams since the mid 70's. The gray areas would have been resolved after all these years.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 27 2009, 09:11 PM

Hey Bishop
Don't scare yourself and all the budding architects out there! I personally didn't find it that difficult and I know of many of my peers who also passed at the first sitting. Maybe that was quite some time back and the exam has gotten more difficult. But it wasn't an open-book exam during our time. I have heard from people from PAM that many of the candidates these days are not able to express themselves well in writing. This could be a handicap in taking the exam.

I can understand what PAM/LAM are trying to get at by drumming into Part 3 candidates every year the roles, responsibilites and liabilities of the architect. There are increasing cases of architects in practice getting into trouble for various malpractices ending in legal suits or found guilty of violating the code of conduct bringing disrepute to the profession and face disciplinary action by the Board. This could be one of the actions they are taking to address the issues. The positon of the Architect is very exposed in practice.There are certain basic principles that you have to be very clear about or you'll land yourself in trouble.

As I said, the EVERYTHING that you are expected to know for Part 3 are selected topics from
the two areas only- professional practice and building legislation. I think the STPM/A-level exams covers a lot more.

Answering on instinct? Of course, if you are prepared, your should have the facts at your fingertips and are able to put them on paper. Time is a constraint in all exams, it's up to you to be efficient and apportion your time. The usual exam techniques apply.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 28 2009, 09:52 AM

OK, if it is only the By-laws which are allowed in the exam, it is still the same as when we took it.

Yes, 22 pages of writing in 2 hours is a lot, but who says you have to write that much to pass? You can't use that as a standard for passing surely. It's the contents that counts, if you can give your answers in 10 pages I don't see why you should fail. As in any exam, the answers should be concise and to the point. It's not the no. of pages that counts.

Generally, in any exam, you don't have to finish answering all the questions to secure a pass. However, it would be better to attempt all questions and give 70% answers instead of answering 70% of the questions and leave 30% unanswered.

Architects do write a lot in the course of their work, especially when you are involved in contract administration. Everything has to be confirmed in writing, there are reports to write, specifications, minutes of meetings especially in a small setup. That's why I say you have to be quite an all rounder.

People who have gone that far as to sit for the Part 3 exam would have sat for tonnes of exams in their study career. What is one more written exam, unless the exams that you have sat in the uni have been that easy or there are no exams to sit ( I heard it's the case in some architectural schools)

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Apr 28 2009, 12:49 PM

Sounds like 'comel'.

mashed potatoes
The interview sounds promising. I read somewhere that the offers would be out early May.
You should be getting the good news I think.

The things they ask at the interviews seem so predictable, don't you think, azarimy? They sound familiar, someone was telling me about the same things when he attended the interview few years ago.
And who is to know the drawings in the portfolio were done by the candidate?