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 Toyota argues single EV is as dirty as 3 hybrids!

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scorgio
post Jun 11 2025, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(marvinben @ Jun 11 2025, 08:52 AM)
Toyota engine + Aisin gearbox. Definition of reliability.
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And just by selling AT gearbox to other car manufacturers = huge profit.

Major gearbox manufacturers like Aisin & ZF, had thousands of patent registered.

China car manufacturers if wanna R&D their own AT gearbox, is at least 15-20 years behind.

khusyairi
post Jun 11 2025, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(sunami @ Jun 11 2025, 09:41 AM)
Hypocrite isnt it?
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Toyota- Mostly hybrid ICE or plus can electric charge or combine with hydrogen fuel.
Not really like Tesla or BYD kind of BEVs..
Drian
post Jun 11 2025, 10:37 AM

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Consumers don't care about being environmental friendly.
TSknwong
post Jun 11 2025, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(yhtan @ Jun 11 2025, 09:46 AM)
Hydrogen until now has not proven its worth in US, especially in California, a lot of the Mirai owner has complain hydrogen is more expensive than petrol/diesel. The only way for future is Green hydrogen.

The hydrogen temporarily station at Putrajaya cost RM15mil to set up, just for 50kg storage only, the cost of petrol station cost mostly about RM3-4mil (large one), one DC charger maybe cost RM200k for 2 bay. How to breakeven in long run with the high storage cost of hydrogen.
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Probably will prevail in Sarawak where they have green hydrogen production using hydro

https://maps.app.goo.gl/UVea8imLMQt23vPb9
yhtan
post Jun 11 2025, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(knwong @ Jun 11 2025, 10:41 AM)
Probably will prevail in Sarawak where they have green hydrogen production using hydro

https://maps.app.goo.gl/UVea8imLMQt23vPb9
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Production is one thing, storage and transportation cost a lot more. Problem is who is going to develop all the hydrogen infrastructure for the whole sarawak. A large scale of hydrogen need a lot more tank for storage.
SUSEfalex
post Jun 11 2025, 10:53 AM

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Mining rare earth is not environment friendly. Please stop using rare earth....
ceras
post Jun 11 2025, 12:26 PM

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To me, Toyota is like a kid shouting for attention at an abandoned corner. After a while, the kid will crawl out to join the other boys because he has no one to play with.
TSknwong
post Jun 11 2025, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(ceras @ Jun 11 2025, 12:26 PM)
To me, Toyota is like a kid shouting for attention at an abandoned corner.  After a while, the kid will crawl out to join the other boys because he has no one to play with.
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They are no.1 car maker in the world in terms of volume sold. Not a kid but a world leader that others will listen to
Sichiri
post Jun 11 2025, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(Nagashiro @ Jun 10 2025, 10:20 PM)
Toyota 2025.

Lol
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see you in Toyota 2030 biggrin.gif
Sichiri
post Jun 11 2025, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(ceras @ Jun 11 2025, 12:26 PM)
To me, Toyota is like a kid shouting for attention at an abandoned corner.  After a while, the kid will crawl out to join the other boys because he has no one to play with.
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lemme guess, the 'other boys' are BYD, GWM, and Geely? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Sichiri: Jun 11 2025, 12:35 PM
Zot
post Jun 11 2025, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(zidane28 @ Jun 10 2025, 11:08 PM)
While I certainly not agree on single EV is as dirty as three hybrids, I do agree that there is no rush to phase out ICE car too quickly...

BUT, Toyota really should start more invests in EV as EV really is the future here.
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Toyota does not go into EV all out because Toyota does not believe that the EV is the future but more on hybrid for now. I think Toyota is working together with BMW developing the hydrogen engine.

People just does not realize that most electrical power is generated from coal and the pollution from coal is much deadlier than previously thought. Study shows that the the pollution from coal to power the EV is more than the pollution generated by car powered by petrol. Furthermore, soon car batteries probably will become another pollution problem. laugh.gif
zidane28
post Jun 11 2025, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 11 2025, 12:51 PM)
Toyota does not go into EV all out because Toyota does not believe that the EV is the future but more on hybrid for now. I think Toyota is working together with BMW developing the hydrogen engine.

People just does not realize that most electrical power is generated from coal and the pollution from coal is much deadlier than previously thought. Study shows that the the pollution from coal to power the EV is more than the pollution generated by car powered by petrol. Furthermore, soon car batteries probably will become another pollution problem.  laugh.gif
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One of my friend said, the only way that EV can be really green, apart of battery pollution is when the method of generate electricity is green as well...

Green method include hydro, solar and nuclear.

But those green method really not yet as established as coal...

I think ultimately Toyota ops for Hydrogen technology as their green technology is due to they can use back most of existing gasoline ICE engine parts for Hydrogen ICE Cars which in turn maintain the current Eco-system that they had built over the years while still cater to the green part...

Hydrogen also got its future, but same thing need to established the charging network 1st la...
Zot
post Jun 11 2025, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(zidane28 @ Jun 11 2025, 01:12 PM)
One of my friend said, the only way that EV can be really green, apart of battery pollution is when the method of generate electricity is green as well...

Green method include hydro, solar and nuclear.

But those green method really not yet as established as coal...

I think ultimately Toyota ops for Hydrogen technology as their green technology is due to they can use back most of existing gasoline ICE engine parts for Hydrogen ICE Cars which in turn maintain the current Eco-system that they had built over the years while still cater to the green part...

Hydrogen also got its future, but same thing need to established the charging network 1st la...
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The main thing is that the hydrogen can be filled like petrol but battery cannot be charge as instant smile.gif
msacras
post Jun 11 2025, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 11 2025, 12:51 PM)
Toyota does not go into EV all out because Toyota does not believe that the EV is the future but more on hybrid for now. I think Toyota is working together with BMW developing the hydrogen engine.

People just does not realize that most electrical power is generated from coal and the pollution from coal is much deadlier than previously thought. Study shows that the the pollution from coal to power the EV is more than the pollution generated by car powered by petrol. Furthermore, soon car batteries probably will become another pollution problem.  laugh.gif
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You trust the combustion of industrial grade coal generator which is closely maintained for peak profit efficiency or some 30 years old ICE under maintained 80% of the time?
msacras
post Jun 11 2025, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(zidane28 @ Jun 11 2025, 01:12 PM)
One of my friend said, the only way that EV can be really green, apart of battery pollution is when the method of generate electricity is green as well...

Green method include hydro, solar and nuclear.

But those green method really not yet as established as coal...

I think ultimately Toyota ops for Hydrogen technology as their green technology is due to they can use back most of existing gasoline ICE engine parts for Hydrogen ICE Cars which in turn maintain the current Eco-system that they had built over the years while still cater to the green part...

Hydrogen also got its future, but same thing need to established the charging network 1st la...
*
Do you know the production, storage and transportation of hydrogen will always consume more energy than it can produce?



Zot
post Jun 11 2025, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(msacras @ Jun 11 2025, 02:11 PM)
You trust the combustion of industrial grade coal generator which is closely maintained for peak profit efficiency or some 30 years old ICE under maintained 80% of the time?
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How much pollution from EV in 30 years?
desmond2020
post Jun 11 2025, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(msacras @ Jun 11 2025, 02:11 PM)
You trust the combustion of industrial grade coal generator which is closely maintained for peak profit efficiency or some 30 years old ICE under maintained 80% of the time?
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they pretend like the whole supply chain of petrol they use is clean, ignoring pollution from oil & gas extraction, refining till distribution and delivery to end user

oh well
desmond2020
post Jun 11 2025, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(knwong @ Jun 11 2025, 12:30 PM)
They are no.1 car maker in the world in terms of volume sold. Not a kid but a world leader that others will listen to
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like vacuum tube maker make shit tonne of noise when semiconductor is a thing

in the end, PhD in vacuum tube can only be garbage collector
ceras
post Jun 11 2025, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(knwong @ Jun 11 2025, 12:30 PM)
They are no.1 car maker in the world in terms of volume sold. Not a kid but a world leader that others will listen to
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Same league as Nikon, Kodak, Olympia No.1 but stuck in an abandoned corner.
Zot
post Jun 11 2025, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jun 11 2025, 02:17 PM)
they pretend like the whole supply chain of petrol they use is clean, ignoring pollution from oil & gas extraction, refining till distribution and delivery to end user

oh well
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ICE engine probably not efficient as electrical engine but coal power plant also convert around 1/3 of energy from coal to electricity. another 6% loss during transmission before reaching your house biggrin.gif

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