Example Wharfedale D300 more expensive than D320. RM1499 vs 1399.
This is true for every brands.
Why?

If the drivers are the same on both, it's just the added "angle" of the height speakers. It meant you can just mount it flat on your walls without buying a mount, that could also involve drilling into the standard bookshelf speakers. It's cosmetic "tax" more than functional.

It's like how razors for women are more expensive than men, even though it works the same.

Because the design for elevation speakers are more complex than 2 way bookshelf speakers. The crossover network may also be different (so no shared crossover network between the entire series) as these speakers may be used for upfiring duties.

The biggest reason though is that they sell on a much lower volume than the bookshelves, therefore a higher margin is needed.

wild guess... paying for the dolby atmos certification

You only pay Dolby tax for "Atmos" when your speakers are upfiring modules designed within Dolby's specifications.

These are just pre-angled mini bookshelves.

unsure how it works, are u saying can use dobly/atmos as what TS posted without paying?

for upward firing mode, a different crossover is involved. different from normal on-wall speaker crossover. some speaker spec/description/manual talk about this change of crossover. a lot of them don't.

here's an example from Klipsch RP-500SA II that shows the switch:
https://www.klipsch.com/intl/products/rp-50...-sound-speakers

oh yes, that dolby logo = dolby tax



for the Wharfedale D300 on wall speaker, no info in the manual about the switch:
https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/wp-content/upl...anual-90722.pdf
https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/d300-3d/
does that mean there is no switch?
the manual doesn't have the word Atmos though. where is dolby tax?

This post has been edited by Skylinestar: Jan 6 2025, 11:11 PM

upward firing mode = dolby tax
on wall mode = no tax
both = dolby tax

Dolby Atmos "modules" are simply bookshelf/satellite speakers that are designed with an angled baffle and a crossover (that must be within Dolby's specs) to match. These are designated as "up-firing speakers" where you place them on-top of your bed channels (front L/R and surround L/R). They were all the hype and fud back in 2017-2019, before soundbars adopted it too. Up-firing speakers only work when you have a single seating position, have a low ceiling (optimally no more than 8ft) and must have a flat and completely reflective ceiling surface, so no ceiling fans or any fancy "cloud diffusers". The idea was that people don't want to drill holes in their ceiling or high up on their wall, so this was the best solution Dolby came up with.

Actual height channels that Dolby uses in commercial cinemas are mounted on the ceiling. Any half decent home theater will either use in-ceiling speakers or on wall height speakers. These speakers can be anything, ranging from bookshelves to individual drivers without cabinets (in-ceiling) or if you're crazy enough, go hang towers on the ceiling.


Yes well aware of the Klipsch.

I was trying to find info on the D300 spec sheet and no where does it say it has a crossover designed for Dolby's "up-firing" mode like you pointed out. So yeah I think it's simply down to volume of production on these height speakers for its higher price vs its other brothers.

what I'm worried is that if I buy the D300 (or anything similar to it without a switch), and assuming it has the electronics for ceiling reflection mode, it is going to sound wrong if wall mounted.

If a bookshelf designed for height duties isn't wearing the Atmos badge, it simply performs like a normal speaker as it lacks the crossover network for Dolby's up-firing specs. Dolby specifies that the crossover be cutoff at 150hz for DAES modules.

So no, it wouldn't sound wrong if you mount the D300 high up on the wall. What would make it sound wrong though is the position of it on the wall as the angle is preset and you can't adjust them without using an arm style bracket.

that is if you assume it has the normal crossover mode (like any other bookshelf speaker).
can we assume that if it doesn't have the Dolby branding, it doesn't have the upfiring/reflection crossover? since it doesn't have, why manufacturers still claim it can be placed on top of another speaker and use in upfiring/reflection mode?

That's from Klipsch support page.

So if the upfiring speakers don't have the switch, they just output the full range that they can handle.

For any surround setup, you need good front speakers and a powered subwoofer. You can live without the powered subwoofer but you will feel the sound is lacking with certain content. Not just movies but music as well. If you analyze the surround content (you can open it using Audacity or any DAW), you can see that sometimes the LFE channel is being used to provide that bass kick; that sound effect exist only there.

Front speakers, even floorstanding ones with tweeters, mids and woofer, don't get below the 20-30 Hz level. The receiver will take those frequencies and gives it to the subwoofer. Adding the height speakers (DTS-X also uses these speakers) doesn't change this. Any low frequencies are still being handled by the subwoofer, as set on the receiver. So coming back to that Klipsch speaker, even if you forgot to switch to the Atmos position, you'd still be fine as long as you have a sub.

Any sound output that comes out of the receiver is "dumb". All 7.2.2/4/6 channels are analog signals. The processing is done by the receiver. When you use that calibration mic that comes with your receiver, the receiver uses that data to understand what condition the room it is in - the speaker placements, the room size and where you sit, for example. Using that data, it applies signal processing to hopefully give you a better sound, like you're in a concert venue or whatnot.

The newer receivers can know how loud your speakers can get and if they are lacking certain frequencies, and correct those anomalies. All of this while making the system user friendly.

So coming back to your original question, yes Wharfedale is forcing you the Dolby tax without the Klipsch low-freq switch.

If you want a "cheaper" Atmos setup, watch this video as a guide.

We can't get those prices since we got the Malaysia tax, but it'd definitely be cheaper. Techno Dad is a professional Dolby Atmos mixer.

Yes you can just use them as upfiring speakers without the Dolby spec'd crossover.

All you need to do is digitally bass manage by manually setting the crossover for the upfiring channels instead in the receiver. When I set it up for people, I use 120hz for the upfiring speakers.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Jan 8 2025, 03:39 PM

RM 6239 + (3729 x 2) = RM 13697
13697 ÷ 1428 = 9.59

Onkyo this model I saw Audio Science Review, got bad design power limiting...

I found the forum on Audio Science Review.

In the last page, as of today, somebody said



The Klipsch Reference Theater Pack is 8 ohms. So as suggested by Techno Dad, it's fine. Of course, you can always find another 9.2 model.

Put aside the receiver.

Techno Dad's suggestion with the Klipsch is for a 5.2.4.

Here's the Sony CS5 bookshelf speakers.

RM700 a pair. 5 pairs is RM3,500 which gives you 10 speakers. Get a 10" powered subwoofer for around RM2,000, you have 5.1.4 setup.

For the Onkyo receiver (or any other 5.2.4 receiver) from the UK/US, you can try freight forwarding companies.

Hmm you need to bear in mind although nominal impedance is 8 ohm, often the speaker will have impedance dip to 4 ohm or even lower at certain frequency, it's unavoidable. Best to skip this fragile AVR, the last post at ASR thread saying the power limit will start triggered at 61c, probably need to add AVR external fan to maintain the healthy state...

I've got no interest in this receiver nor do I work in the CE industry.

Yes, impedance can dip. But that's why the NR-7100 has as ASR calls it, a "limp" mode which can be reset by physically unplugging the receiver.

But if you look at Page 9 of the ASR forum (and page 10), you can read how while the original poster did a good job at reviewing, it's not audio content - they were test tones. And played loud and long. Normal people don't do that. They listen to music and watch movies.

ASR users suggested beefier receivers costs 3 times as much or more that can provide more power. But why would you want that when your use case and budget doesn't match?

You can build a vacuum cleaner so powerful, it can suck the paint off the wall. But why would you build that? Which househusbands are demanding that much power?

61°C is pretty low. It could be that the user placed the receiver in a non-well ventilated space.

Rule of thumb of audio: If your ear drums feel pain because of what you are hearing, turn down the volume knob. It's too loud. You'll damage your hearing, your audio equipment and your relationship with your neighbor.

Also a rule of thumb: If people are complaining that it's too loud but you can hardly hear anything, either your ears are plugged or you already lost your hearing.

How loud do you watch your movies? 0dB reference level? -10dB? -20dB?
I know there are people who think -20dB is already too loud.

I think 61°c can be easily reached in Malaysia climate.

This post has been edited by Skylinestar: Jan 18 2025, 09:52 PM