SOC voltage issue, not OC.

I think Intel trying to sell potato chips now.

well crap, since both selling crap consumer product
i hope qualcomm elite x can stomp both and make something good.

aint fan of the amd and intel but forced to use them lol

What OC? AMD also stock setting lol

it's due to they not knowing or overconfident with their own CPU's tolerances to the point where it blows a hole in the substrate　　

None of these would happen if they bake max safe voltage and power limit into the CPU.

Stock setting is 253W TDP, mobos auto OC and push the CPUS to surpass that. If you manually set TDP to its rated max, no issues. So it that CPU fault or mobo fault?

And NO, 7800X3D exploding CPU was not just due to OC, redditor Skyfishjy had this to say:



So NO, AMD case wasnt better. It was just as bad as Intel today

or buy cheaper product line like i5 and lower end ryzen lineups. Seems like the high end models have way more issues while the cheaper cpus have way less issues

i never bought highest end offer from both, the latest cpu i got was r7 3700x,
after that i use lappy exclusively,

dont have much time to use pc lol, sad adult life

one off issue right? i dont see any news from major tech site, unlike intel and the 12vhpwr

i did messed with my MSI board with OC before, luckily my MSI mobo is tank and lasted for many years lol, no cpu died.
it even out lasted my Enermax and SeaSonic PSU, both died and RMAed, for an entry board it's really bang for bucks, my next product will always MSI

https://youtu.be/QzHcrbT5D_Y

i think its more like temporary distruption. People will be more keen to try new and hyped up products,
like the battery life and stuff, advertise so big, but small gain(with up and down on other performance categories), meanwhile Intel n Amd might catch back few years later.
It's just more variety.

Both AMD and Intel can catch up performance, but for desktop you have to use gigantic coooler,
look at what Intel done to reach peak performance.

both cant catch up the efficiency that ARM have.
majority of android device are powered by ARM and apple inhouse CPU are ARM too.
then you have super computer powered by ARM too, the scalability and efficiency are what x86 cpu lacking.

remember how long you can use your phone or play games without worrying battery juice empty ?
you cant do that with x86 smartphone, because it does not exist, intel had one Atom powered android phone but it failed to make it into market,

Well, effectively, true, that is correct.
BUt just few things.

Gigantic coolers are mostly, not necessary actually. THat peak performance, its more like just to flex i got fastest cpu,
cause, that eventually makes into people mind, Intel is faster, Amd is faster, sedangkan that is only top end and high boost clock, blabla.
Point is, only if enabling prolonged pl2 crazy boost, high temps, hnce bigger cooler. But for for few percent performnce drop, but way less power and temp,
one can easily get away with normal coolers.
Also, AMD and Intel makes cpu that works with GPU and so much else high power draw(Voltage levels) components.
So, they can't make very low powered. (Correct me if im wrong).
For example, small speakers, u can use pc audio jack, that signal is enough.
But gigantic speakers, u need to amplify the signal itself. same with cpu, to talk with Gpu, and other more high power things.

Whereas ARm, they rely on igp and smaller voltage levels. This is my assumption.
So, we can't expect single component to cater both high perfomnce eco and stay low power also. THere is limit on Lowest voltage a cpu need to stay on.
Just like V12 need more power to stay on compared to v6.

Other than that, x86 and games without battery empty, in the end, for what it matters, battery life,
ARM does have its place. I always think about it also.
On phone/apple, right from wifi modul, using chrome, all can be done with battery, no coolers.
But on pc, lol, we need power supply, fan and cooling, and cpu that runs on higher power draw n temps.

Anything that is made must have a set max limit, CPUS, even super hypercars. Why makers have set electronic limited 300kmph, or 400kmph, is not bcoz the car engine or aerodynamic cannot push it further but bcoz other things ie tyres, gearbox, etc, are not as durable to reach such high speeds. But what happens when the makers offer you an unlimited Ksku hypercar that could go as fast as you can floor the pedal? Well obviously something else happen if you try to drive like that on a daily basis, rite?

The same logic goes with Intel Ksku CPUS, the speed limits are off, the brakes are gone if you dont set any restriction how fast you want to push. If you set your own PL1=PL2=max PBP limit, many dont seem to have this CPU degradation problem.

Is it an Intel fault for unlimited Ksku version CPU? Yes
Is it mobo maker fault for unlimited power setting? Yes
Is it the user fault for not limiting their CPU? Yes
Is it market fault for creating OC'able CPU version? Yes
Is it Intel fault for not telling buyers to get nonK if they dont know what their doing? Yes

When everyone point fingers are each party, everyone is actually at fault too. Peeps should just buy nonK and leave the Kskus to wizards like derbauer or Kingpin. They arent complaining about hardware failures when pushed beyond the limits.

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Jul 17 2024, 11:48 AM

actually all parties involved with x86 has done a lot of optimzation,
eg many heavy stuffs moved to GPU,
eg video decoding, to play 8K VP9/AV1, MPEG H265, etc are offloaded to GPU, you cant play it on old GPU, and CPU is out of questions。
the internet browsing, you think your cpu can handle those interactive and full screen scrolling website? they runs in GPU, CPU take back seat now.

x86 issues is still there because those ISA take up a lot of transistor and being useless there, many of our normal software don't use it,
in order to improve the performance, we have to relies on SSD and high clock speed CPU.
optimization require a lot of effort that usually only genius can write the code (assembly code).

ARM use little power because they have less ISA that take up the silicon space (Hence the cpu is RISC, while x86 is CISC)
ARM can runs on mobile devices to supercomputer.
while x86 is toward high performance computing

you can take a good read here https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/linux/ARM-vs-x86

X86 also has a lot of legacy baggage in tow. Imagine that a 14900K could technically run programs made for Intel 8008 CPU, thats crazy longtime to be keeping compatibility. Many software have already ditched 32bit so in order for X86 to move forward at the least Lunarlake should ditch 32bit ISA and purely run on 64bit with software emulation to handle for any remainder 32bit programs.

Yes, Intel tried that with Itanium but then the emulation layer was terribly overcomplex while the CPU then werent fast enough for seamless software translation. These days, CPU are so efficient and powerful compared to IA64 that any emulation for less taxing 32bit shouldnt be a problem anymore.

thank you for sharing that, understood.

Legacy instructions is fine, the issue are;
The software we use don't really use them
Then optimizations take a lot of time, hence most new software or game first version usually are just work, optimizations take place later.

Unless you use it on audio\video production:
https://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggdropxpd.php
You can see some of the Vorbis audio encoder have generic, p4 and athlon. These are optimized for different CPU
The lancer build is supercharged written by Japanese guy. Lancer one is one of the best example that software can really use the cpu instruction and multithread capabilities.

Then the video codec behind OBS, mpc-hc, are also runs in cpu and gpu combo,
X86 is still good for these kind of workload, but for other task strangely they use a lot of power but the performance is poor,
Another thing you can blame is Windows 11, it's such a powerhog.
I use edge regularly and it's no better than chrome.

Windows and their x86 partner should add low power CPU such as arm for low power use,
If Sony can use both arm and AMD jaguar on PS4, why windows PC can't?

On average the idle on my amd system is really poor, when it's idle the load is still there, both AMD and windows 11 does a really shitty job
My Intel tablet idle can last for 3 days, on battery

On a hardware level, legacy eats up transistors which could be put to use for more modern usage rather than wasting away. Directly it is bigger than needs to be, indirectly it might be why X86 has the poorer power efficiency as it needs to keep these legacy hardware "warm" in case they are called.

Indeed Win11 makes everything worse, too bad we need to change by next year anyhow while Win12 still not here yet (and could be worse than 11!). As for Edge its not surprising as its based off the same Chromium now. Use Mozilla or Opera instead.

If want hybrid low power use, Intel has Alder-Raptors design which the Ecores does perform efficiently but the problem is the BIG Pcore which loses in IPC vs AM5/6. And then rather than increasing it remains as 8 Pcores while Intel keep spamming Ecores which is POS when calls for heavy multitasked workloads vs AMD R9s. Imho just to run Windows & other background tasks, it only needs 4-8 Ecores so Raptor should have been configured as 10 Pcores + 8 Ecores giving the R9s a good fight.

Anybody using the snapdragon laptop, how was it compared to intel

SD so far been underwhelming, I think its coz Win11 is not designed for such low power SOC. Rather than Windows it needs a native ARM based OS.