Yes it's part of the feature but it doesn't inspire confidence in the credit capacity of the company, who in their right mind will pay 9% coupon on a perp when they can get long term credit from banks at 6%?

So much bullshit from some people.

Like I said, I spoke with the guys doing the rating of Trooicana sukuk at MARC, they confirmed that not redeeming the bond at the call date is going to be viewed as credit negative.

It's specifically the step up nature of the perp that makes it credit negative to not exercise the redemption.

What about Tropicana issuing another sukuk to refinance the one callable in September 2024? If there is demand, wouldn't they be able to do that at below 9% (+ 1% each subsequent year it is not called) on secured basis?

On the possibility of Tropicana deferring future expected distributions, are they allowed to defer them indefinitely, in which case, it could become a rolling snowball which may never be paid? Weird. Their credit standing would plummet.

I also like higher coupon, provided they pay.

Unfortunately, it seems that under the terms, if they don't pay the coupons, they will just accumulate, and we cannot do anything about it. That would not be a good situation.

From the Terms (can fall asleep reading lol):

(h) Optional Deferral of
Distribution

: The Issuer, at its sole discretion, provided that no
Compulsory Periodic Distribution Payment Event
has occurred, may opt to defer payment (in whole
or in part) of the Expected Periodic Distribution
Amount which is otherwise scheduled to be paid on
a Periodic Distribution Date, to the next Periodic
Distribution Date by giving an optional deferral
notice in writing ("Optional Deferral Notice")
signed by the Issuer provided that such notice shall
be given no earlier than fifteen (15) business days
nor less than five (5) business days prior to the
relevant Periodic Distribution Date, to the Facility
Agent and the Sukuk Trustee (for and on behalf of
the Sukukholders).

The Issuer may at its sole discretion, elect to further
defer any outstanding Arrears of Deferred Periodic
Distribution by complying with the foregoing notice
requirement. The Issuer is not subject to any limit
as to the number of times the Expected Periodic
Distribution Amount and the Arrears of Deferred
Periodic Distribution can be deferred except that the
provisions on the Dividend and Capital Stopper (as
defined in the section entitled Other terms and
conditions – Dividend and Capital Stopper) shall be
complied with until all outstanding Arrears of
Deferred Periodic Distribution have been paid in
full.
....

that long clause really need you guys to read and help explain

Correct me if I am wrong
1)Tropicana no money can defer  paying  the dividends
2)can defer paying  us dividend again and again repeatedly?

So if Tropicana is allowed by that clause to do above,
habislah kita, no call back and no dividend!

Unless it says  coupon deferrements accumulated later
must pay back all dividends owed to us...

adakah like that?
, later on still must pay back our accumulated deferred dividends?

Latest trade this morning:

20-Mar-2024 09:04:06 AM 0.25 100.08 6.84 21-Mar-2024

Above par 

Default? 🤔

you sell in open market meaning.......? you sold it clicking it online your own
no need go through your RM?
I was asking have you any experience
buy bond from 1 bank then  sell it at another bank?

since bond prices differ from 1 bank  to another
it would be nice if  i buy from lower prices bank then sell it at higher prices bank

...

you have forgotten what your bond insider said earlier?
PS
Dont worry bro
not meant to scare you..
i bought even riskier bond than that

whoa bro

say what you mean and mean what you say.

here is what i said when i defended CIMB bankers, the bank

i argued you  becos i dont agree with you that bankers can simply
manipulate bond prices they like, simply push up another RNM5 also can you claimed.
i said they need keep reputation, you rebutted No!
as if you know them better than me.
see what you said here. Responding to my post above, who else could you meant to say
dont value reputation?? Not bankers CIMB?

bro dont forget people reading  in here are not all stupid

Are you saying:

1)a bank needs reputation only when it is selling its own bond?

2)When the bank is selling others bond , it dont need reputation?
can simply hantam and manipulate bond prices?

i wonder how many people in here  agree with that.

what say you? @hksgmy and @joeblow

Eh eh, don’t lah drag me into this bro… I was merely sharing good news and suddenly I find myself in the crossfire…

embarrassed and angry
he has shown his true color

is that a response from someone intelligent?

you got a lot to learn from hksg

I still can’t get over the blatant money grab as per your example above… it’s an IPO bond, and they are already charging a RM2 margin from the get go…. Crazy!

I thought bond subscribers are sophisticated investors?

I worked at GS/JPM/CC and recently thought of retiring back to MY so let me just ask some questions:

Ya'll do know that callable is an OPTION for the ISSUER right?  This means Tropicana can choose to call back or not call back the bonds.

When ya'll bought the perp bond, the maturity date is 2119, 100 years from 2019, you know you basically agreed to borrow money to Tropicana for 100 years, right? 

If ya'll already know and prepared to borrow money to Tropicana for 100 years why some people are saying things like "We are but small fish in a big pond. The high and mighty have crafty ways to escape things that us little men have no avenue for!" when YOU MADE YOUR OWN DECISIONS? There is no invisible hand or power at play here. Issuer is within their rights to not call back the bond at all.

This exchange offer isn't that bad at all from what I read, more protection (senior sukuk), lower interest (which benefits Tropicana but hurt old owners), yes the callable is few more years down the road, but remember what I said? Callable means that it's an option for issuer, not an obligation, their obligation is to redeem the bonds by YEAR 2119.

Citi? Chase?