A lot of people bought the Corolla Cross. A colleague and friend drive the Cross Hybrid. However, I noticed a lack of interest on the Corolla Cross GR Sport. Does anyone here own the Cross GR Sport? If not, has anyone test driven the GR Sport and how does it compare to the hybrid or normal version of the Corolla Cross?

Apart from cosmetics (personally the exterior of the GR Cross especially the front grille looks much better than the normal Cross versions), it appears that the suspension and electric power steering have been tuned differently from the normal versions of the Corolla Cross. The EPS is a "Sport ECU", not sure what is that, while the suspension is sports-tuned with a "performance bracing" added. Again, not sure what differences do all these parts bring to the Corolla Cross GR Sport when compared to the normal Corolla Cross versions. There is a lack of review on the Corolla Cross GR Sport and on Youtube, there is only 1 or 2 test drive reviews. YS Khong did a short test drive review of the Corolla Cross GR Sport but it's not up to Genting this time but on normal roads at normal driving speeds. The suspension was said to be slightly stiffer than the one in the Corolla Cross non GR Sport which gives slightly better handling around corners with less bounciness.

Currently there's promotion for all Corolla Cross versions but not this Corolla Cross GR Sport.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Didn't test the Toyota Corolla Cross GR Sport version in Malaysia, but have tried many of the different Sport/GR versions of Toyota in Taiwan.

It's really a different breed of car with the special tuning & suspension setup.
If I'm buying my next Toyota, I would always go for the GR version if possible. You get Toyota's legendary reliability & sports feel.

Thanks for the post. That's good to know.

FWIW my priorities these days are not so much about handling and performance but reliability and problem-free (that's why Toyota is at the top of the list for me now). However, it's good to kill 2 birds with one stone.

I will need to recheck on the Corolla Cross GR Sport when I'm in the Toyota showroom next round. I just visited the Toyota showroom about 3 or 4 weeks ago and I didn't actually pay attention to the Corolla Cross since my main interest is the Corolla where the vehicle is already sold out throughout Malaysia at this point of time, awaiting new Corolla model to launch likely next month. I did briefly look at the normal version of the Corolla Cross when I was at the showroom but since it's not my interest, I didn't pay much attention to it.

The current price of the Corolla Cross GR Sport is RM142k, and if there's promotion just like the other versions of the Corolla Cross, I'd seriously look into it although my main choice is still the Corolla. Will see how the upcoming new model of the Corolla stack up once it's launched.

https://www.toyota.com.tw/ - Sharing for your interest, since I'm no longer buying any new cars in Malaysia, but I'm a big fan of Toyota Taiwan, and planning my next Toyota purchase in the next 2 years.
The GR specs there are basically the highest specs + hybrid + suits me because I prefer a sportier drive. So I find it really value for money.

That being said, if I were buying a car in Malaysia, I'd rather consider a Proton to get more value for money, however no brand comes close to Toyota's quality levels & after sales service levels.

Thanks. Just had a look at the Toyota Taiwan website and noticed they have Corolla GR Sports there unlike here where we only have normal Corolla. Our Corolla here is not even a hybrid, and they have 2 additional versions of the Corolla (hybrid and GR Sports). Lucky for Taiwanese, or unlucky for Malaysians! I was informed that the upcoming new model of the Corolla will be just a facelift with the same old engine, not even a hybrid. We are surely behind other countries when it comes to getting new models with updated technology and features.

For the Corolla Cross, at least Malaysia still have the GR Sports version. It's just that it's only in petrol engine rather than hybrid engine as Taiwan is getting. I've briefly investigated on the hybrid vs NA engine in the Toyota Corolla Cross, and from the looks of it, the difference is not exactly significant especially in performance and power. The hybrid version is just slightly better when it comes to smoother acceleration at low to moderate speeds in comparison to the non-hybrid. Also, slightly better fuel consumption with hybrid perhaps. Apart from that I presume the Corolla Cross hybrid and non-hybrid drive fairly similar.

Proton used to be good value about 10 years ago. Now I don't think it's good value anymore as most of their vehicles are close to RM100k and exceeding that with the Geely rebadge vehicles. I owned the Proton Preve Turbo before and the highest spec only costs RM69k if my memory doesn't fail me. It's value for money but in terms of quality it's still not quite up to the mark with the older Protons. Perhaps newer Protons such as X50 or X70 have improved but then the price is much higher.

Well, can't do much about Malaysia because the currency depreciated so much. Back in 2010, TWD10 = MYR1. Now in 2023, TWD10 = MYR1.50. Imagine if you just converted all your savings to a foreign currency instead of putting in FD. You would make way better returns on your money. So you'll end-up with lower spec models in Malaysia vs. Global Trends, because the manufacturers still want to maintain their profit margins.

The thing about hybrids these days is it's very similar priced vs. normal ICE engines. So you get the additional fuel savings for your wallet without forking out extra at the time of purchasing your car.
A good in-between car until EV cars become a norm everywhere and the prices start trending downwards.

The reason why things costs so much in Malaysia these days is simple bro. Inflation, inflation, inflation.
However, it's also not a fair comparison between Proton Preve Turbo (C-segment sedan) vs. X50 or X70 (SUVs).
Wait for the Preve/Persona/Perdana replacements from Geely, then you will have a fairer comparison in terms of pricing.

The only real performance rated GR in Malaysia market is either the GR Yaris, GR Corolla, GR Supra & GR 86.

The rest are mostly exterior bodykit, interior upgrade & tuned suspension for sportier feel (Hilux, Cross, Vios), while special for the GR Vios which they tune the CVT gear from 7 to 10 virtual gears (which the engine output still same as others similar model across)

If you ask me is it worth to buy the GR Corolla Cross, i would say no. If you want a better handling/sportier ride in similar category & price range is better you get Subaru Xv or Mazda CX-30.

This post has been edited by littlefire: Jun 28 2023, 02:21 PM

Noted on all your points.

Regarding the unfair comparison between Proton Preve Turbo and X50/X70, it's just a general remark. During the older days, apart from Proton Perdana which is not meant to be sold to the public, the Proton Preve Turbo is the costliest vehicle. It's only when Proton went into joint-venture with Geely they have all these rebadge SUVs coming in, priced higher. We'll wait for the Preve Turbo's replacement, and as you have aptly mentioned, due to inflation everything is expensive these days so I don't expect the replacement to be at the Preve's price range.

The Preve Turbo's quality and reliability are not good. Although the relatively low price can be considered as value for money, the quality of the vehicle drags it down. Apart from the dismal performance of the CVT gearbox, it malfunctioned once and needed to be replaced within warranty period. Also, rattling sound in the interior.

Let's wait and see the upcoming Geely-Proton sedan replacement models. Those should be good, since it's tried, tested & proven in Chinese market.
I have faith in Geely as their shareholder. Now it a good time to accumulate their stocks to make good money in the future.

Yes, I am aware of the true or genuine GR performance vehicles. However, all these vehicles cost RM200k to 300k or higher which are in a different league from the GR spec of say Vios or Corolla Cross. It may be a gimmick or marketing to put the GR badge to the Vios or Corolla Cross, but at least there are some minor improvements not only in terms of aesthetics with GR logo or red-stitching on leather seats etc. but some mechanical differences in the suspension, EPS and additional bracing in the Corolla Cross GR Sport.

I am aware the Subaru XV or Mazda CX30 may (or will) have better handling and performance. However, if reliability and problem-free vehicle is a factor I believe the Toyota is the best choice. Also, I think the CX-30 is priced a bit higher than the rest, RM10k or 20k more. If there is promotion for the Corolla Cross GR Sport, it would be more attractive alternative to consider.

If one is just looking for handling and performance, I agree Subaru XV or Mazda CX-30 would be a better choice. However, everyone has their own priorities so for people looking at other things, the Corolla Cross GR Sport may tick more of the boxes. FWIW I find the normal plain version of the Corolla Cross to be unappealing mainly due to the exterior looks especially the front grille. However, the Corolla Cross GR Sport looks better to me hence the interest.

if you are in it for the performance/handling, these are the only GR's worth mentioning, the rest kinda pointless. not really here or there

Well, it's not exactly pointless. The "true" GR vehicles are outright performance orientated vehicles priced very high. For this reason not many people will buy them as they are meant for enthusiast with deep pockets. For everyday driving to work and to wet market or pasar malam etc. these vehicles are not suitable.

The Corolla Cross GR Sport offers the best in comfort and slightly better handling for everyday usage. All at an affordable or more reachable price tag. For me, it's not so much about the slightly improved handling but more to the looks in comparison to the normal version of the Corolla Cross. To me, the normal version of the Corolla Cross does not look good.

If talk about reliability ratings in crossover category, Subaru XV Crosstrek is one of the best beating even to Toyota own similar offering.
FYI, Subaru is also within the same Toyota family. Just google about Subaru Xv Crosstrek vs Toyota Corolla Cross article & youtube video around the net and decide. Mazda CX-30 reliability status due to new model usually are less in comparison, so would be better to wait for facelift.

This post has been edited by littlefire: Jun 28 2023, 03:31 PM

I'd say Cross GR at least not as pointless as Bezza with bodykit, adding a spoiler to a sampan won't do shit

Correction to my own post above. Upon checking, I noticed the true "GR" vehicles are not priced between RM200k and 300k but actually RM300k to 655k. A these prices I doubt many people would buy them.

Also, performance orientated vehicles are mostly not comfortable to drive everyday due to stiff suspension that will leave you with backache. It's mostly for enthusiasts, racing on the race tracks. These days how often will you drive enthusiastically on the roads with all the jam everywhere. Not related to the topic but I recently read a news about the Hong Kong actor Simon Yam Tat Wah selling away all his sports cars as he realised they are not practical for everyday usage. Just used once in a blue moon only. He is now looking for a practical SUV for everyday driving.

Good to know. Subaru XV Crosstrek is also a good looking vehicle although interior-wise it may be lacking. It's another good alternative to Toyota Cross GR Sports or plan Cross model. It all depends on personal preferences as not everyone looks for performance and sporty drive. Although reliability is the top factor for me, the vehicle will need to look good on the exterior and interior where the perception varies with individuals. If the vehicle doesn't look good, I wouldn't consider it even though the specs on paper may look impressive.

Test drove both GR and Hybrid. In the end opted for Hybrid. Car is for my mom anyway. Styling wise, GR is nicer, particularly the white with black roof (although I feel they should have made the wheels an inch larger) but for majority of people on our lousy roads, the Hybrid is a better buy for it’s softer drive. GR ride quality is more jittery over rough roads. Honestly, my mind was already set on the Hybrid model (was mainly trying to decide between HR-V Hybrid or Cross Hybrid) when I visited the showroom so maybe my judgement is unfair. I just test drove it since the the SA offered, because we were waiting for the Hybrid test car to return from another potential customer’s test drive session. Frankly, I don’t really consider it a true GR model. It’s just a 1.8 Cross with a couple of bits added and slightly different mapping. Maybe rolls less during harder cornering, but it’s negligible at best. More noticeable is the GR’s front compressing less under harder braking compared to the Hybrid, but that is also what makes it feel firmer and less comfy over bumps and holes. The CVT in the GR is still too lazy even in Sport mode, and for sedate driving in Eco/Normal mode it’s also not as smooth as the e-CVT on the Cross Hybrid. The HR-V Turbo (also CVT) actually felt sportier than the Cross GR to me.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 28 2023, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the post. You are the first person to compare the Corolla Cross hybrid to the GR Sport so your impressions are useful. I have somehow expected the hybrid version to have the upper hand when it comes to drivability and indeed your test drive experience has proven that to be the case. Good point on the hybrid being more comfortable on rough roads as that is also somewhat expected as sports-tuned suspension which are inherently stiffer will surely be less comfortable on rough or bad roads. Will need to test drive myself to evaluate the level of acceptance of the drivability of the GR sport as everyone's benchmark is different.

As I have mentioned earlier, everyone's priorities in the selection of vehicle is different. Apart from reliability, looks come in second and the GR Sport looks better than the plain Corolla Cross to me. Drivability, power and performance although important are now at the bottom of the hierarchy for me and are of least importance. Nevertheless, the vehicle will still need to meet a certain standard and not drive like say a Perodua Alza for instance. Just an example as I have not driven the Alza with the assumption that it drives noticeably worse.

All the differences which you described such as negligible body roll during cornering and lesser compression of the front suspension with hard braking etc. are useful information and appreciated. Also less comfortable ride of the GR Sport when going over speed bumps and potholes are well noted.

All Honda vehicles are out of consideration due to low quality assembly (rattling noises in the interior) and also lower reliability, not withstanding the sticky steering issue which was revealed lately whereby the steering wheel will lockup when the steering rack or related electronics fail. When you mention the Honda HRV drives sportier than the Corolla Cross GR Sport, I presume it's on better acceleration power of the HRV. What about the handling ie. steering sharpness and suspension setup. From my experience with older generation City, CRV and Accord, they all have light and loose steering feel and poor road feedback, and a soft suspension.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 28 2023, 07:36 PM

Yes, we share the same taste. Similarly the white looks the best to me when compared to the other two, red and blue. However, my impression was based on looking at photos on the computer screen and not the actual vehicle in real life.

I numbered and bolded the bits I will be replying to. Apologies, as I’m currently touch-typing on the iPad and it’s a bit troublesome to manually cut-paste and add quote tags for individual bits.

1. I apologize for not being clear earlier. I meant that the difference in degree of body roll between the GR and Hybrid is negligible. You can still notice the left-right tilt on both models, just that the GR has less of it and feels slightly tighter. Granted, it was still just a short test drive. The SA did let me push it a bit, but time and roads were limited.

2. Same for me. Honda is actually my favourite Japanese automaker (because of their 2/4-wheel motorsport pedigree) but their CKD quality has gone downhill over the years. Aside from the issues you stated, what put me off the HR-V was the poor cabin insulation, particularly from road noise. Insulation materials used seem like they’re supposed to be in a RM40k car, not a RM140k car. I also sit in a colleague’s HR-V Turbo when we head out for lunch some days, and my impressions haven’t changed. Even the roof lining during rainy days sounds cheapskate.

3. HR-V Turbo has better acceleration for starters. CVT also feels like it shifts faster, although both Cross and HR-V gearboxes can probably get confused if you drive expecting them to develop a “rev-matching memory” to your style. That simply won’t ever happen for this segment of cars. Steering input/immediacy is around the same for the HR-V Turbo and Cross GR (a bit quicker than Cross Hybrid) but both are numb as heck. GR steering has a bit more feel than the HR-V, but it’s more like torque kickback rather than actual road surface feel. But if it’s a very bad surface, the Cross will somewhat try to let you know that you’re putting undesired stress on the steering rack (which I find useful, given our craptastic roads) whereas the HR-Vs steering will remain numb until the day you realize the rack is gone. Suspension-wise, honestly hard to A/B as the test roads around Honda and Toyota SCs were different. I would say the GR shaves it slightly. Neither of them “float” over undulations. Chassis-wise, the Cross (all models) feels like it has less flex than the HR-V, but that might just be down to the poor noise insulation of the Honda clouding my judgement. Can’t say for certain. Both are still FWD SUVs at the end of the day, and even in that segment I doubt either will be as driver-focused as something like a Mazda (my assumption only, haven’t tried any current Mazda, because Bermaz).

Please note that I’m what /k would call an “oldfag” and when test driving cars these days, in this country, the feedback I tend to look for is more reliability-centered (how much can the car tell me about its overall health) rather than handling/performance-centered (I still look at fundamental characteristics, just probably not at a nuanced level as an enthusiast). I tend to treat cars as appliances (I drive a Harrier, Cross Hybrid is for my mother - basically zero character in my garage) nowadays, so best to take my input with a grain of salt.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 28 2023, 09:25 PM

You're greatly misinformed. It doesn't lockup, it merely stop assisting as if without power steering, momentarily intermittently.

Majority of feedback were exaggerated, however also understandably, not many were "fortunate" enough to experience driving a vehicle without power steering and may also not be aware that at higher speeds, you really don't need power steering.

I may be greatly misinformed but the information was shared by few people, some Honda owners too. I don't wish to engage too much on this topic since the main interest in on the Corolla Cross Hybrid. Nevertheless, I presume you haven't had first-hand experience with loss of power steering assist to the EPS? I'm not sure about the Honda but with Ford Focus, without the steering assist, you can't drive the car already as the steering wheel will become very stiff and cannot be turned. Hence I am unable to understand your remark about power steering assist is not required at higher speeds. Basically once the steering assist fails to function, you wouldn't want the vehicle to travel at high speed as chances of an accident is high if that happens!

Similarly I'm typing on my phone so may have some errors which I need to correct. Response appreciated. Most of my concerns are addressed so there is nothing much to add. I'll make it short.

Yes, the design of Honda vehicles is good but the poor CKD quality drags it down. All Honda cars I've sat in throughout the years, my colleagues as well as business partners all showed higher than normal rattling sound inside the cabin. As a matter of fact, even my previous Proton Preve Turbo didn't show as much rattling sound. My colleagues who upgraded from Honda City to something more upmarket always had bad things to say about the Honda. I recalled sitting in a Honda Accord 2.4 as a front passenger about 12 years ago from KL to Johor, and when we exit the highway to the small roads to reach the small towns, the car rattled like crazy when going over rough or bad roads. It's like sitting in an old beat up lorry or cow truck. In defense, the car is not exactly new and has few years on it but the level of rattling noises and NVH is just unacceptable to me. For this reason Honda vehicles are dropped

I would expect Toyota midrange vehicles Corolla and upwards to show better quality control with respect to assembly and better NVH with minimal rattling sound in the cabin.

Power, handling and performance used to be top priorities to me 15 years ago but now they are not important anymore. It's fine if the Corolla Cross doesn't handle too well but hopefully it's not too shabby. My benchmark is Ford Focus but the Corolla Cross will be mainly used by my dad, occasionally by me. My dad won't care how the car drives anyway and the decision or selection of vehicle will mainly be made by me.

NVH vs Handling, choose your own devil.

Don't get me wrong, we can get good NVH and good handling together on new pavement, or even 5 years old pavement that is intact.

The UHP/UUHP tyres can be awesome at absorbing small rattle/vibration due to soft rubber compounds. The noise are not that perceivable to human ears with new tread design.
Then the stiff shock absorbers, sport suspension handle big undulation better than soft setup.

On the flip side, when comes to rough or bad roads, like patches scattering around, or non broken road, but with the tar dried and turned light grey from old age, the car rattle like crazy (not talking about the interior rattle sound).

It is very hard for Corolla Cross to beat Focus, if it the ecoboost generation then impossible.

For me that is prone to motion sickness, I'll anytime rather to have rattle vs soft suspension what swing up/down 2-3 times extra on every big undulation on highway. Suspension that is too soft is harsh for my body.

Ask yourself are going to be satisfied with something middle ground - not sport enough, but also not comfort enough vs leaning on sporty side vs all out comfort?
Again different person has different line on each situation.



This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 29 2023, 09:57 AM

The Ford Focus mk3 I have is said to drive fairly similar to Ecoboost. Anyway I don't expect Corolla Cross to match the Focus but do hope the drive if the GR Sport version with slightly stiffer suspension and tuned sports steering will be better than Honda CRV where the suspension is too soft.

No rattle + comfortable (but not too soft) suspension is still possible with say Corolla sedan? That's my impression based on reviews and YouTube test drive videos especially the one by YS Khong.

In response to your last paragraph, it would be a yes. The main priority is reliability and problem free. Next important considerations are quiet and minimal rattling, good nvh. Handling and power come in last. I think I've repeated myself several times. 😁

SUVs I've driven that the suspension I felt is too soft or bouncy(not comfortable) :-

Honda CRV
Mitsubishi Pajero Sport

Kia Sportage is slightly better than the above but still feels a bit soft.

Agile suspension that is considered not too soft:-

Mazda CX5

I hope the Corolla Cross GR Sport will drive closer to the Mazda than the other 3.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 29 2023, 10:22 AM

Depends what you perceived as tuned sport steering. Do you want precision? Do you want quick turn-in? The 2 doesn't always come together.

Precision is partly the suspension geometry (how wheel rotate around the kingpin inclination), partly the tyre. We can't not change (at least not until replace all arm with adjustable) the geometry, but replace the eco tyre (I believe Toyo CR1 on Corolla Cross) with with something more grippy and stiffer side wall, eg:. UHP or even premium touring would make great difference. That also improve the response, initial turn-in.

Artificial quick turn-in give some sporty feels, but may not ideal for precise control. For some that actually drive the car fast on winding road, linear steering is preferred.
Most car naturally accelerate then turn towards more steering angle due to the geometry. Some actual sport car actually do the "reserve variable ratio" to make it more linear.

In the sense that the quick turn-in response should come naturally from the actually grip (tyre + suspension geometry design), solid rigid chassis, lightweight of actual sport car, not tune the steering ratio to make it feels so.

P/S: From Toyota history of cost saving, it is unlikely for them to design different arms just for a GR Sport variant. Most likely slightly lower spring 10mm without changing the suspension geometry, then the car will naturally run higher negative camber + run higher toe-in. That's pretty much all. Just check the alignment spec from 4S dealership, should be able to confirm it.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 29 2023, 10:48 AM

SportyHandling && constant_weight

I have a great counterpoint example for both your “Honda Quality” and “NVH vs Handling” concerns, from the most unexpected candidate - the Honda e

I know one of the Weststar Auto partners and got to try out the Honda e when it was first recon’d to Malaysia. It was awesome. The quality is insane and it goes over all kinds of surfaces incredibly well with no looseness or vibrations. In that short drive, body control remained taut even on bad junction corners, steering feel was nice and linear (for an EPS). Overall it had a lot “road manners” of a bigger premium car shrink-wrapped into a small package. Whilst most cars driven on our roads feel like they’re cast from sheets and welded/glued together, this one (if you allow me to exaggerate a bit) felt more like it was forged from a block. Honda CBU Japan is really different standard, and this felt even better than that.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 29 2023, 01:11 PM

Dei, I'm one of said co owner of the new Civic FE that just recently replaced our car's EPS la.

Even without replacing i can live with it.
Wife don't like the stickiness of it and being intermittent, she opt to replace under warranty claim. All is well.

I've driven cars without power steering la, standstill, parking and stop go obviously it's very stiff, but not impossible. And at speeds, it'll loosen up.
Obviously it's important otherwise we wouldn't invent power steering, I'm just saying it wasn't as bad as some may claim and definitely isn't the case for Honda's infamous power steering issue. It may be for Ford, I'm not denying you, I'm just saying this is not the case for Honda.

And uh, you're not aware of vehicle engineering and their fail safe ? Typically, ignoring Ford since you're so insistent on it, when power steering fails, if you just don't have power steering, most of the time, You CAN STILL CONTINUE TO STEER the car WITHOUT power steering

ha ha. Honda diehard supporter.

Just don’t expect JDM perfection. Toyota/UMW QC might be better than the local CKD median, but there will always be the lingering shadow of Malaysian “jaguh kampung” incompetence. We’re typically a country that’s used to assembling lower-end DNGA models. My mom’s Cross Hybrid is scheduled to arrive next week and I’ve already compiled a list of issues I need to look out for thanks to the LYN Cross thread and other complaints I’ve found from various social media posts.

My own car is a Toyota
And i support Proton over Perodua.

How's that?

It is obvious you haven't experienced a steering assist failure in the Ford Focus, or have you? Otherwise you wouldn't have made the above remarks. I guess you are aware that not all steering assist failures will behave the same?

It appears that you are still not convinced on the seriousness of the unavailability of steering assist in the Ford Focus since you still believe that people can continue to steer the car without power steering assist. I can assure you, if your wife or perhaps even yourself experiences a steering assist failure in the Ford Focus, she might not want to drive the car anymore. If you don't have first hand experience, you won't know the actual danger of the real life scenario. Of course the steering wheel can still be turned without the steering assist but females or senior citizen will likely not be able to turn it as it will be VERY STIFF. It is not impossible to turn the steering wheel when the steering assist fails but it will be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT especially with less abled individuals. As an analogy, one may carry a 2.5 kg dumbbell easily, just like turning a steering wheel with steering assist. With the failure of the steering assist in the Ford Focus, yes you will still be able to turn the steering wheel but it's now a 25kg dumbbell (or put a higher figure). You may still be able to turn the steering wheel but it will not turn easily anymore, inching bit by bit with all the might that you exert on it. With females and senior citizens, they likely won't be able to turn it and as a result the vehicle will not be steered to the emergency lane and just stop in the middle of the road.

I suppose your are aware that your experience with power steering assist failures in the Honda Civic or other cars cannot be applied to the Ford Focus or other cars which might show the same symptoms? Or you might be a real life Hercules where all types of steering assist failures including the one in the Ford Focus don't really matter to you since you can still turn the steering wheel with perhaps one finger, with ease. 😅

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 29 2023, 01:35 PM

Your experience with the Honda CBU Japan shows that the CKD here is really poor quality.

Just checked with one of the Toyota dealers to see if there is cash rebate on the Corolla Cross GR Sport and so far the is none. Will make a decision in due time and it's down to two only, either the Corolla Cross GR Sport or new Corolla sedan.

Yes, I am aware can't expect much with local CKD but I believe (and hope) CKD Toyota will be much better than CKD Honda.

I get it, ford power steering is catastrophic levels. When it happens is an impending accident or car towing event.

Ok. Cool.

And because ford is shit, and therefore Honda (and any brands, even Toyota Denso units, heh) power steering must also be shit.

But for the sake of your thread - You not planning to buy a Ford, or Honda for that matter, right? Then no issue lo
Cantik mantaps best

Yes, that's right. It's only with the Ford Focus mk3. From the looks of it, it's only with the Ford as the steering wheel of other cars such as Honda can still be turned easily when the steering assist fails. It's surely not the case with the Ford. Good to know the Civic does not have this same steering wheel lockup issue as the Focus. It's difficult to determine the severity of the steering lockup or "sticky steering" without looking into the actual problem in detail.

I am only highlighting cars which are problematic, power steering issues whether major or minor are still issues which will require the vehicle to be fixed at service centres or workshops.

No more Ford. Trust me, it's a nightmare once the steering assist fails while one is still driving on the road with the car moving at speed with other vehicles. No to Honda too as mentioned earlier. 😁 A Toyota is more or less confirmed mainly for reliability.

That's quite technical for a layman like me but I think I get what you are saying. In short, I hope the steering feel of the Cross GR Sport will be closer to sharp, accurate or precise rather than loose and artificial. Again, my benchmark is Ford Focus and Mazda. To me, the steering feel of Honda City and CRV is too light and loose with an artificial feel.

Toyota legendary reliability is no longer the case for the new/latest vehicles.

Vios gotten DNGA scandal, dual shift CVT is a ?, Their co developed cars all ? But understandable cuz BMW Subaru aren't exactly known for reliability.

Non co developed GRY / GRC is in a way, too ambitious and to be fair, they aren't exactly aimed at real hardcore/professional race drivers, and those target audience will have their own aftermarket remedies and workarounds anyways.

Is either that, or you get really delayed (dynamic force in Camry, never yet on Corolla Altis but that may be updated soon, hopefully, lol) releases on technology and drive train. (Those ugly CRT TV interiors and really cheap/shoddy looking head unit anyone?)

Do realize that the latest drive train (dynamic force engine and direct shift CVT) has gone through some hush hush TSB or even official recall internationally.

UMWT is not stupid. They know their main target audience have reliability as a priority similarly/same like you.
No way they want to risk that status by releasing latest greatest and then trouble their customers visiting SC for recalls.

For those wanting latest greatest, they'll just concede that market to Honda. Buy engine free car.

He meant the Corolla cross GR Sport will be artificial like it or not.

No way you're getting genuine sharp steering feels without NVH trade off. Those are not sought after by Toyota buyers.

That said, the Civic FE steering feel IMHO felt better than latest Mazda 3. (I've written pretty extensive reviews on both threads in car club forums) And probably those suspension geometry carried onwards to the FL5 type R which received endless praises from anyone driven it being able to turn/and corner amazingly despite being a FF vehicle that's inheritly prone to under steer and unable to control rotation via throttle unlike RWD/AWD cars are capable of.

Ok, in English = just get the regular Corolla Cross, spend the $$ difference on a set of UHP tyre. The handling improvement will out do what you gotta get on CC GR Sport.

If CC GR Sport come with UHP/Touring from factory, the improved handling mostly contributed by tyre. The rest are body kits.

If CC GR Sport run normal sponge eco tyre and get good handling, I'm skeptical some minor lowering will do major difference, anyway no harm to test drive to validate it.

My take after test driving - accurate and sharp, for a conservative FWD family SUV (don’t compare it to a Focus), but also artificial at the same time. It’s definitely better than any generation CR-V. You don’t get that looseness over bumpy surfaces where the wheel totally loses all weight in the 10-12-2 o’clock positions (like it suddenly got disconnected from the steering column). Saying that, the CR-V steering is a very low bar to compare it to, so still best to temper your expectations until you can get a test drive to determine of the GR is “good enough” for you.

If you want me to elaborate, at least based on my impressions from that short test drive; Basically, there’s very little “lag” between your steering input and and the rest of your body feeling the change in direction. As long as your steering inputs are clean and linear, the car will track accordingly. Just don’t expect to be instant pin sharp like a performance car or convey much road feel from the steering wheel.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 29 2023, 10:36 PM

Ok got it. For me, looks > handling/performance so it will be the GR Sport. I didn't bother with the Cross hybrid all this while as the looks don't quite appeal to me. Won't mind reduced handling performance with stock eco tyres but I guess they won't put eco tyres as standard on GR Sport which is supposed to have sporty elements with all sports tuned suspension and steering and also performance bracing added. All these should contribute something I guess whether big or small it should be noticeable.

Since dev/numb thought the Cross handles much better than CRV, that should do it. 😁

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 29 2023, 10:40 PM

Ok thanks. As long as it's better than CRV that's good enough. The loose steering feel and excessively soft and bouncy suspension of the CRV don't feel good to me although they may appeal to others.

I'll just wait for the cash rebate to come from Toyota on this Cross GR Sport, will likely get this when there's cash rebate. At the meantime will also look at the new Corolla but expect it to be priced a bit higher without any meaningful changes so will likely drop it if that's the case. It's basically the same as the current model with some minor updates such as additional USB ports added here and there, all for RM15k-20k more than the current Corolla which are discounted with cash rebates. In other words, the updated new Corolla model won't be a value buy.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 29 2023, 10:51 PM

From AutoBuzz to avoid PT kacau. It is the same eco Toyo CR1.

https://autobuzz.my/2023/02/22/video-2023-t...nsion-and-more/

Help you translate to layman English. Expect heavier steering, less body roll. That's all.


“Sport ECU” for the electric power steering that is claimed to increase steering feel and response.

= software only "tune", meaning reduce assist force, make steering heavier. No going to impact the precision and sharpness. Given same eco tyre, so...no need to repeat. Most car sport mode already does this.


There’s also reduced body roll thanks to stiffer suspension (retuned springs and struts), and the addition of a Performance Bar.

= stiffer spring and added a struct tower bar. Like I said earlier Toyota will not redesign the suspension geometry for small project like this. No mention of lowering, so expect same camber as well. Don't know what is "Performance Bar", if that is referring to Anti-roll bar, it is wtf moment like regular CC don't have ARB??? Anyway entire thing is around reduce body roll, which attending to regular consumer perception less body roll = good handling. Nothing too serious here.


P/S: ARB is more important as front/rear balance tool, generally stiffer end will slide first. Perfect example is 86 vs BRZ, where BRZ get softer rear ARB than 86.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 30 2023, 12:44 AM

Thanks, understood.

I just watched YS Khong's Youtube video on the test drive of the Corolla Cross 1.8V up Genting Highlands. At the end of the video, his summary on the car surprises me a little. Firstly he mentioned the Corolla Cross although not the most powerful car has very good handling around the corners and will give other cars a run for the money. He also mentioned the 1.8V is better than the 1.8 hybrid if going up the hill as it has more power with higher torque and horsepower. This is surely surprising so I checked the specs and indeed the engine of the 1.8V (139PS / 172Nm) is more powerful than the hybrid (98PS / 142Nm). However, there's the motor generator in the hybrid that gives the additional power (72PS / 163Nm). Not sure how the motor generator will contribute to acceleration power though but YS Khong did mention he found the normal version of the Cross to be more powerful than the hybrid version when going up the hill.

That's good to know. I'd rather have old reliable tech especially critical main components such as engine and gear transmission rather than the latest tech with unknown or poor quality that have potential to break down. In that case, it's a good thing UMW didn't adopt the new technology. I didn't know the latest drive train (Toyota's dynamic force engine and direct shift CVT) is problematic. I don't keep in touch with the automative news too much unless I"m in the market for a new vehicle then I'll start to investigate on everything regarding the car.

Calculating a hybrid’s max power and torque isn’t a matter of adding the outputs of the petrol and electric motors together and calling it a day. They’re tuned for fuel economy. Peak horsepower and torque will still be lower compared to the 1.8 version because the hybrid’s combustion engine is very lowly tuned and the electric motor’s assistance plateaus lower down the rev range.

Electric motor is used for initial movement and to augment the dips in the combustion engine’s torque curve. You will get better low speed acceleration going up hilly bits in short busts as long as the driving done prior to reaching the incline has sufficiently charged the battery. It works great for daily urban driving in towns with sporadic undulations (flat-uphill-flat-flat-downhill-uphill-flat) at normal speeds, but won’t help much on a sustained hillclimb as the small battery gets discharged faster than it can recharge.

You can drive any hybrid and try it for yourself. When the battery is sufficiently charged (say 3/4 full) just set it to EV mode and drive slowly on electric power alone. Wait till the battery gets depleted and the ICE fires up to start charging it, and then try flooring the pedal. You will hear the engine revving quite high but the car struggling to accelerate, because (a) it’s already an engine in a low state of tune, and (b) there’s no more electric power coming from the empty battery to provide the “torque fill” required for that sudden burst of acceleration.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 30 2023, 12:24 PM

Thanks for the information. Based on your response as well as reviews on the internet and test-drive videos on Youtube, solely on engine performance I presume we can deduce on the following:-

Pros of Corolla Cross hybrid over non-hybrid/GR Sport
1. Better drivability in city drives at low to moderate speed cruising. Smoother and more powerful acceleration at low to moderate speeds.
2. Quieter cabin during idling and low to moderate speeds.
3. Better fuel consumption in all driving conditions (that's for sure)

Pros of Corolla Cross non-hybrid/GR Sport over hybrid
1. More powerful acceleration at moderate to high speed cruising. In other words, slightly better performance with spirited drives and hard acceleration
2. Due to the above, slightly better advantage in long highway journeys when it comes to overtaking vehicles at high speeds or climbing steep hills such as going up Genting Highlands

After some investigation, I found this article stating that the bookings for Toyota Corolla Cross GR Sport exceed the hybrid model in Malaysia, and the wait list for the GR Sport is around 6 months. Is it true? Initially I thought there isn't much interest in the GR Sports model due to lukewarm response, but looks like I may be wrong.

https://www.wapcar.my/news/toyota-corolla-c...-6-months-63808

majority Malaysians just love sporty bodykit

I actually hope there will be less interest for this GR Sports and due to low bookings or sales on the model, Toyota then launch the cash rebate for the model. Haha! Now there's cash rebate promotion for all the Corolla Cross models both hybrid and non-hybrid but there is no discount for the GR Sports. Maybe it's just recently launched so there's no discount.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 30 2023, 03:24 PM

Better fuel consumption in all conditions are not guarantee. Only it is statistically better in most conditions.

Due to parasitic power drawn by MG1 (I'll explain later), if we have hypothetical long drive without need to brake at all, Toyota HSD hybrid will be less efficient.
Any fuel saving is contributed by the 98PS ICE that use Atkinson cycle (in layman = longer combustion stroke than intake stroke to gain higher thermal efficiency, ok maybe not layman enough for those doesn't know Otto cycle, sorry I tried my best).

Here's the 101 of Toyota HSD
- the 72PS/163Nm is called MG2. It has 2 jobs - direct drive the wheel, and regenerative braking
- there is another motor MG1 (unknown spec). It has 2 jobs - charging the hybrid battery from engine, and control the gear ratio of eCVT

2nd job of the MG1 is the one that steal engine power, and can consume 20% of engine torque for 2.4L Camry Hybrid. I couldn't find data for the Cross Hybrid.

So imagine if one is traveling permanent constant speed. Statistically, this is unlikely, even highway we get to brake.
- MG2 has no chance to generate power from braking.
- MG1 consume engine power to maintain hybrid battery level
- MG1 consume engine power to fix gear ratio of eCVT

For comparison normal ICE car or other brand hybrid that use AT/DCT, has permanent mechanical lock to fix gear ratio (tiny amount of electric to maintain oil pressure in AT/DCT).

I guess, this also answer you 2nd question, at continuously high load (including hill climb), it really depends how much MG2 regenerative charging can keep up with the acceleration requirement, so that we don't need MG1 to keep replenishing battery power and consume engine torque.

Then we also don't know the MG2 max RPM, usually for PMSM (permanent magnet synchronous motor), torque started to drop around 50% of max rpm, then at max RPM the torque is about 50% of max torque.
PMSM is popular to low speed efficiency but lack of high rpm performance. This affect the MG2 torque reduction at high speed. Toyota didn't disclose this, at least I couldn't find the spec.

We also don't know MG1 power. What is its output ratio to engine max horsepower (which decide how much parasitic load on the engine). Again Camry Hybrid case is 20%, remember it is bigger 2.4L engine.

Of course, all are still limited by how fast the hybrid battery charge (aka C rate). Most of the time this is the bottleneck. Put bigger MG1 also no point.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 30 2023, 03:45 PM

Article written during GR’s debut month/quarter, so it’s possible that GR bookings at the time exceed all other Cross models. That’s normal for most cars.

GR and Hybrid target different buyers. Majority of Cross GR buyers are likely comparing it to the regular Cross G/V models and equivalent petrol models from competitors (eg: HR-V Turbo, CX-30, XV/Crosstrek, etc), while Cross Hybrid buyers are likely comparing it to competing hybrid offerings.

When I made booking (last week of Feb 2023), SA told me Hybrid waiting time is longer than GR and V models, but that could be due to other factors like battery supply constraints and whatnot. They don’t release (afaik) the factory output for each specific model, so hard to draw conclusion.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 30 2023, 04:31 PM

Looks like you are quite knowledgeable and technical, which is a good thing. I have to read your post several times to get a hang of the MG1 and MG2. After digesting all of it, I think it makes sense now.

Looking at the specs of the hybrid:-

POWERTRAIN
Max Output = 72 (98)/5,200 kW/(PS)/rpm
Max Torque = 142/3,600 Nm/rpm

MOTOR GENERATOR
Max Output = 53 kW
Max Torque = 163 Nm

From your post, if I interpret it correctly the numbers for horsepower and torque of the powertrain in the hybrid model (98 PS and 142 Nm) are fixed and available at any time. However, the horsepower and torque for the Motor Generator (53kW and 163Nm) which I presume are the MG1 and MG2 that you mentioned, is just indicative and not available for use at any time. The numbers are the maximum which the motor generator can store and provide, and the availability is dependent on the regenerative braking. So, in other words if there is little regenerative braking to create the energy or power for the motor generator, then there won't be much horsepower or torque in the motor generator to assist the main powertrain. Say, the motor generator max output and torque is 53kW /163Nm, but in actual scenario it can be just 5kW/20Nm available to be used, just an example. The numbers are not fixed. Is my understanding or interpretation correct?

In this sense, it all makes sense now that the non-hybrid model was claimed to have better performance in hard acceleration or spirited drives due to the more powerful engine (main powertrain) whereas the hybrid model's performance will be very much dependent on the amount of energy or power that is available in the Motor Generator where it can be very low in certain driving conditions.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 30 2023, 05:00 PM

Yes, that's right. I do think the hybrid version will be the best selling model, especially with the current promotion that's running. I earlier had the impression the GR Sports will be rather niche and less appealing but it looks like there is still interest on the vehicle.

Cross Hybrid current waiting period is 4 - 6 months. This is from KL OKR branch (Wheelcorp)

it's also on the top of my list to replace my Picanto. Main factor is practicality, comfort and most importantly fuel efficiency. It shares the same 35L fuel tank as my Picanto but the fc is almost twice better based on owner's feedback. Do note that I dont do a lot of outstation / highway cruising as I understand that is where hybrid advantage diminishes. I guess it kinda shows the Picanto fc is not ideal in city driving for an A segment also lmao

was considering Civic also but both my gf and her mom dislike the low seating position.... oh well. And I personally have some gripes about the car as well

honestly there's really not much of a choice for the 140 - 150k+ range.... our weak currency value is not helping as well

yet majority of the consumers are still expecting bucket loads of features for the same price as few years ago..... i foresee only China brands could fulfil that in the near future

This post has been edited by ZeneticX: Jun 30 2023, 05:22 PM

Most people will want a vehicle with excellent fuel efficiency, so the hybrid model will usually appeal to majority of people. People who do a lot of city driving everyday to and fro to work and back home, which is likely the case. The hybrid will excel in city driving not only with low fuel consumption but also smoother acceleration and drive when compared to non-hybrid judging from people who have test-driven the vehicle.

In some cases like mine, a hybrid won't bring much benefit as it will be mainly used by my dad which rarely drives since he's retired, also to be used as a backup vehicle. The vehicle will be mainly driven to supermarket for groceries etc. I've done some calculations and in average, the mileage will be 20km in 1 week. In 1 year, the vehicle will only clock around 1,200km (and not 12,000km).

With city driving and heavy usage, the hybrid will be ideal and the natural choice especially to save on petrol costs.

if it's for your dad for rarely drives I would say you dont even need the GRS..... just regular 1.8V or even G will do

I get to make the decisions. 😁 I will still drive it occasionally. The family car must look good, and it's the GR Sports that satisfy this requirement at the moment.

Will give the upcoming new Corolla a final look after it's launched before making the decision.

In that case the Hybrid makes little sense for you. One small piece of advice; for any new car, it’s good to give it some decent mileage on the first month. Get it as close to the 1000km mark as possible, or at least do more than 500km in both stop-start traffic and highway conditions (and rainy weather if possible). That way, it’s easier to suss out any potential issues and have the SC settle it in the first service.

Just test drove both Hybrid and GR Sports. Won't get into details. In brief summary:-

1. GR Sports feels more powerful with hard acceleration. The Hybrid engine emits a louder and more prominent low frequency growl in hard acceleration.
2. Little difference in handling and suspension but can't really gauge with the short test drive route.
3. Overall impression, the steering feel, ride and handling meet my expectations. Steering doesn't feel light and is quite accurate and sharp. In comparison, the Honda CRV steering feels way lighter with less road feel.
4. Steering of GR sports feel a bit heavier than hybrid I think. Both steering feel and weight of the hybrid and GR Sports feel good to me.
5. Suspension, no complaints. Firm yet comfortable. Both GR Sports and Hybrid. Can't really feel the difference much, perhaps small difference or negligible.

Some pictures of the GR Sports:-





Also, viewed the interior of the Corolla sedan. The rear seats look more spacious inside than the Cross.



In summary, for my driving style the GE Sports is more suitable for me. The sound that the hybrid engine gives out during hard acceleration feels like it is struggling. If on fuel economy, then the hybrid wins all the way.

Will wait for the new Corolla to launch before making the final decision. Speculated price is RM145k.

Now I understand why my colleague who bought the hybrid said it's underpowered. And also YS Khong's remark in his YouTube test drive video that the normal version of the Cross is more powerful than the hybrid when going up Genting Highlands. For folks who frequently do hard acceleration or engage in more spirited drives, the GR sports with the NA engine is surely a much better choice than the hybrid to me.

I still like the look of this Altis, if not limited to older gen 1.8 engine I already bought it...

Personally, either Corolla Cross GR Sport or Corolla sedan is fine to me. In other words, both are acceptable to me. The only issue is there isn't any major difference between the current Corolla (which is not available for sale anymore) and the upcoming new Corolla, and the current Corolla was sold at RM15k discount when Toyota was clearing the vehicle several months ago. If there was a Corolla available for sale at the discounted price, I would have bought it already. There is none available now, and if you consider the new Corolla, you will be paying RM15k-20k more for the face lift model without any major differences.

Older but proven 1.8L engine is not an issue for me. It's proven reliable being used for many years, refined and improved throughout the years. NA engine is going to be phased out anyway, as hybrid and electric will slowly take over in the upcoming years. So in my view in does not really matter even though the 1.8L NA engine is old.

A disclaimer which I need to make. I just found out that the Corolla Cross hybrid I drove just now was in Normal driving mode. I was made to understand that there is a Sports mode available for the hybrid, and I didn't test this Sports mode when I drove the hybrid. It was only when I drove the GR Sports version I knew the hybrid came in several driving modes when my brother in law asked the salesman if the hybrid came with driving modes after he too felt the acceleration of the hybrid was lethargic when compared to the GR Sports. He was sitting at the rear seat of the vehicles when I was driving both hybrid and GR Sports.

Perhaps the Sports mode in the hybrid model will turn the tables and bring the performance of the hybrid close to the GR Sports in hard acceleration? The Normal driving mode of the hybrid is not suitable for spirited drives as I have found out.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jul 2 2023, 07:54 PM

Bro these are family SUV/sedan ferrying passengers from point a to b.

And it's Toyota with their touted (read: ancient, lol) legendary reliability.

You say Mazda can still somewhat ok ok make believe. Or Honda with their Motorsports heritage in past and current, and very aggressive styling obviously aimed at younger owners.
The turbocharger is pretty much icing on cake and is what stood out amongst the choices between these 3 brands, That are actively competing in both B/B+ in between C/C/D segments sedan and SUV.

It might have been the Eco mode that you were driving it on (which is the default). I found Normal mode okay. Eco mode was lethargic, especially initial pickup. Like those junctions where you need to drive into a road across oncoming traffic - Eco mode gives you zero confidence in actually making it across before the oncoming cars reach you, while Normal mode is more… normal, I guess.

This is a characteristic of all Toyota hybrids I’ve tried, from a relative’s Prius (forgot which gen, it’s the one that shares architecture with the Lexus CT200) back when they were new in Malaysia, to the Camry Hybrid I was leasing up until 1.5yrs ago. Best to just forget about Eoo mode and leave in Normal. The mileage difference on the Camry Hybrid was only around 0.5L/100km at worst anyway.

Sport Mode on the Cross Hybrid just shortens the throttle response slightly and tightens up the CVT ratios a bit. Steering weight remains the same (slightly lighter than GR), from what I could tell

I too would have preferred the Altis over the Cross. Just pay a little bit more for double wishbone setup. But UMWT doesn’t offer a hybrid Altis variant here. Other reason is that my mom (I mentioned buying the Cross for her in earlier posts) had knee replacement surgery a couple of years ago and isn’t comfortable with the knee bending required to get in/out of a sedan anymore (I think it’s more psychological than physiological, because her surgery and rehab went great), and she likes the entry*/exit height of my Harrier (XU80), so the Cross was overall a better fit for her.

* instead of putting some weight on the knees or one knee like how we do it, she prefers resting her bum on the seat first before lifting her legs in, and most urban crossovers seem have their seats at a better height (compared to sedans) for her to do that.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jul 2 2023, 11:18 PM

Actually, you mom's method is more preferable as you've mentioned the obvious issue of the common practice and I've bolded it again.

Ass got more cushion compared to legs, but you got a bit of a "drop" getting into the vehicle as opposed to "smoothly" getting in with legs.

Fortunately, me (and wife) gotten used to this method no thanks to my own coupe that's by default already super low, so the Civic FE feels right at home using the same method despite many complaints that it is really low.

And comparatively between the 3 brands, the Civic FE is indeed the lowest height c segment sedan in the market.

Just to add on, contrary to popular believe, the Eco mode on Toyota hybrids is actually more suitable for highway cruising instead of city driving where more stop and go (acceleration) is involved





This post has been edited by ZeneticX: Jul 3 2023, 03:32 AM

Ya lowest among the C segment.

But then Civic FC/FE is not particularly low versus the exec C contis. The seating position not as low as Civic, but ground clearance 130mm - 150mm range is lower than Civic. Can you measure yours? I see some 140mm to 170mm, not sure malaysia spec. Hybrid RS maybe different height vs turbo too.

Overall hip point height about the same, could even be lower depending on model/spec.

My car used to have ground clearance 13cm near front wheel, 14cm near rear wheel (align with 136mm of official spec). Now is 15cm+/16cm+, lol.
New tyre lifted my car some 20mm. Maybe 5mm contributed by new tread, the rest 15mm I can only attebute to stiffer side wall despite I drop 2psi.

P/S: cm becuase I measure myself, not at eye level could be few mm off

But any of that still better than old camry combination. High sitting position, 160mm ground clearance but very soft spring. When fully toad with passengers, ground clearance KO, hit the floor at many Taman bump, front bumper hit the ramp of some multi level carpark. At least Civic FC/FE never heard any friends got such problem.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jul 3 2023, 09:16 AM

Different mode on daily driving passenger car only change the throttle response, power delivery.

No impact on max torque/horsepower. If you already floor it, it is what you get eco or sport mode, no different.

Remember my old corolla hill climb. 2nd gear drag to redline about 80km/h. Upshift to 3rd, stuck at 3500rpm max and speed slowly drop even with fully pressed throttle. Dropped to 70km/h downshift to 2nd and repeat the sad driving story, until I gave up 3rd gear, floor it, whatever speed let it be.

Yes, it is a manual 1.3L AE92. Maybe my youth emotional damage made me obsessed with horsepower these day.

Yes, it might be Eco mode but then the salesperson who attended to my test-drive must have done disservice, not only not revealing beforehand on the different available driving modes of the Cross hybrid (hence unable to test them) but also telling me that the vehicle was in Normal mode when I was test driving the car. Anyway, the response from Constant_weight appears to be contradictory to your experience as he feels that there's no difference between Eco and Normal/Sports mode during hard acceleration. Having said that if in normal driving conditions without any hard acceleration, all versions of Corolla Cross are nice to drive.

Anyway, regardless of what it is, I find the acceleration performance of the non-hybrid to be satisfactory, not underpowered.

The drive of all versions of Corolla Cross is certainly much more refined than other SUVs including Kia Sportage previous generation and Mitsubishi Pajero Sport which I"ve driven few times, especially the Sportage for more than a year as a company car. As a matter of fact, I feel the suspension of the Corolla Cross is more slightly more comfortable than Mazda CX5. It combines the best of both worlds in having a comfortable and yet not too bouncy suspension. In other words, the Cross drives closer to a sedan than an SUV. Honda CRV is way too floaty and bouncy than Corolla Cross. No experience with HRV.

Corolla sedan vs Cross GR Sports, will see how it goes. I think the price will be almost the same between the 2 high-spec models. A matter of preference.

If that's really the case, then the petrol version of the Corolla Cross will be more suitable for people who like to drive a bit quicker than others, or those who frequently do hard acceleration. With the hybrid, the sound either from engine or gearbox transmission is a little weird and louder during hard acceleration. With the non-hybrid, it's the normal sound from the engine during hard acceleration, and the sound is not so loud as the hybrid.

See his first sentence about different modes only changing response. See my bit about the Sport mode only improving the response and CVT gearing. In that sense, he and I actually concur. We only differ in our daily needs - I mostly just want to get to work on time and he wants to set Nordschleife lap times.

Hahahaha, well said!!!

I didn't mean just hard acceleration. I meant floor pedal to metal max acceleration.

Quick tap on throttle to eg 3k-4k rpm, sport mode ECU open throttle faster, thus faster response.

Sport mode doesn't make more power than eco, just more willing to give you power with smaller input, more willing to downshift. When throttle already open max, horsepower/torque same in every mode. Same concept on the throttle controller.

Being said that, beside spirited driving, taking fully loaded passengers and luggages up hill, don't expect sport mode to give you any boost.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jul 3 2023, 12:58 PM

No idea never really bothered. Sure, I'll go measure when I'm free and remember.

But the car will scrape a bit of you pass through speed bumps higher speeds (>30 or 40kph) under full load full passengers full rear trunk (family vacation with baby, majority of items are baby's lol)

Civic springs are really soft too
But since globalization, their dampers are more conti feel than usual Asian vehicles/CKD Melaka, hence a really good purchase and IMHO is what really set apart the FC and FE. (Along with both engine and CVT drive train improvements) Again I'm not really bothered on aesthetics.

For sure we've gone through very different experiences.

I started with 3 speed auto 4g15 iswara auto with like 58 horsepower.
Then 5 speed manual Kancil 660, even lower horsepower.

Until today horsepower is the least of my concern. Unless it's less than 10 ponies kapchai on a Gohtong/Genting uphill, 1 gear will sound like the piston is gonna greet you any time soon, 2nd gear your bike may sometimes decelerate.

That's my only notable experience on wanting more power

After so much discussion, I wonder what car that TS bought 😁

I bought the Nissan Almera earlier in March. The upcoming Nissan Kicks will likely be the next family car, if they price it right.