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English Clubs Manchester United Street Talks

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statikinetic
post Jan 30 2023, 07:34 AM

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An article on the offside event based on the laws of the game.
Images within the article in the link below.


What happened: In the 35th minute, Casemiro attempted to play a through-ball that Reading defender Thomas Holmes tried to intercept. The ball looped up and fell to Wout Weghorst, who headed across the face of goal for Rashford to score from close range.

After a VAR review, the goal was disallowed as Weghorst was in an offside position when Casemiro played the ball, and the striker was the next United player to become involved (watch here.)

VAR review: Even though Casemiro wasn't attempting to pass the ball to Weghorst, this is irrelevant in the offside law. The moment of the pass sets the offside position for all attacking players against the second-last opposition player, and it then depends how the ball comes to an attacker.

This drills right into the definition of a "deliberate play" in the offside law. We hear about this a lot in the modern game, even though it has existed within the laws for many years. The IFAB tried to clear up a lot of the mystery behind its interpretation in the summer, but it's application still remains incredibly subjective and very frustrating for many supporters.

Merely calling it a "deliberate play" is confusing in itself, because in almost all cases a player is trying to play the ball deliberately. The definition is far more complex and concerns, most importantly, a player having control over their actions and where the ball goes.

If a player is stretching, making a reflex action, or blocking a shot or cross, this shouldn't be seen as a "deliberate play." This isn't the same as a poor attempted clearance in which the player has the time and space to play the ball.


"Deliberate play" is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:
- passing the ball to a teammate
- gaining possession of the ball
- clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).

The criteria to identify a "deliberate play":
- the ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
- the ball was not moving quickly
- the direction of the ball was not unexpected
- the player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e., it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
- a ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air

For Holmes, two of these clauses are important. Firstly, the ball didn't travel from distance, Casemiro was relatively close by when he played the ball. And most crucially, the Reading player didn't have time to coordinate his body movement. In attempting to cut out Casemiro's pass, Holmes made a blocking action with the outside of his right boot, causing the ball to loop up. It was not an attempted pass or a controlled clearance and absolutely fits the definition of a movement with limited contact/control.


Thomas Holmes makes a blocking action with the outside of his right boot, rather than a pass or clearance. ITV
There was no doubt Weghorst was in an offside position, so as soon as the VAR, Lee Mason, identifies the play wasn't deliberate, the only possible decision is to disallow the goal. That said, as this was a subjective call, referee Darren England really should have been sent to the monitor to confirm the decision, rather than it just being made by the VAR alone.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-fa-cup/...wed-for-offside
BartoCastro
post Jan 30 2023, 08:40 AM

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ETH need to start using young midfielders in coming weeks. Fernandes will need a breather, Eriksen probably out for a month. Casemiro is the key, MacFred are okay in cup competitions but still a poor combo in league games.

We are good in defence department, wide players also in a decent depth. GK are well covered.

Upfront are obvious low in quality. Martial, Weghorst and Elanga. False 9 probably not a bad idea because we didn't do a lot of crosses.

I believe Glazers are in no mood to splash cash, but I still hope for a low key signing.
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(BartoCastro @ Jan 30 2023, 08:40 AM)
ETH need to start using young midfielders in coming weeks. Fernandes will need a breather, Eriksen probably out for a month. Casemiro is the key, MacFred are okay in cup competitions but still a poor combo in league games.

We are good in defence department, wide players also in a decent depth. GK are well covered.

Upfront are obvious low in quality. Martial, Weghorst and Elanga. False 9 probably not a bad idea because we didn't do a lot of crosses.

I believe Glazers are in no mood to splash cash, but I still hope for a low key signing.
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to do loan signing during this window, there are not much options... maybe can loan busquet from barca... since FDJ seems like already taken his spot... or loan herrera from his current club...
zhou.xingxing
post Jan 30 2023, 11:10 AM

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last day... any last min purchase? backup purchase at least.. cfc shopping like buy vege je.. power the new owner
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(zhou.xingxing @ Jan 30 2023, 11:10 AM)
last day... any last min purchase? backup purchase at least.. cfc shopping like buy vege je.. power the new owner
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loan deals should be hard to do anything... dont expect too much... lol... any almost expire midfielder we can get in the market?
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 11:23 AM

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looking at werghorst game the past few matches... he is definitely the giroud type of striker... pressing, hardworking, link up play and heading... dont expect him to score goals like ibra or cavani... but he is definitely the one that can get our wing to flourish type of striker... we never have a proper no.9 that willing to do the dirty work and link up play... and he willingly help us to get the ball at midfield also if required... he may not suitable for counter attacking... but even as false 9, he shud be doing very well for ETH...
zhou.xingxing
post Jan 30 2023, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(aaron1717 @ Jan 30 2023, 11:19 AM)
loan deals should be hard to do anything... dont expect too much... lol... any almost expire midfielder we can get in the market?
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dont think so... midfield thin now...

vdb out.. bruno playing almost every game.. erikson out.. youth needs to be given chance to play.. pray hard casemiro fit
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(zhou.xingxing @ Jan 30 2023, 11:26 AM)
dont think so... midfield thin now...

vdb out.. bruno playing almost every game.. erikson out.. youth needs to be given chance to play.. pray hard casemiro fit
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yeah susah, and we still in all 4 competitions... how to have strong squad without spending much money i pun tak tau... but this season as long as gt any cup... qualify UCL is enough for me... anything else will be bonus... our midfield mmg need to spend alot since dunno how many seasons ago...
zhou.xingxing
post Jan 30 2023, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(aaron1717 @ Jan 30 2023, 12:02 PM)
yeah susah, and we still in all 4 competitions... how to have strong squad without spending much money i pun tak tau... but this season as long as gt any cup... qualify UCL is enough for me... anything else will be bonus... our midfield mmg need to spend alot since dunno how many seasons ago...
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caicedo 70m gbp also rejected by brighton. wished we have the money to join the race. he is earning 3k pw only at brighton.

current stage top 3 + 1 cup win at is good enough. hope to see more young players starting in coming rotation games.
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(zhou.xingxing @ Jan 30 2023, 12:05 PM)
caicedo 70m gbp also rejected by brighton. wished we have the money to join the race. he is earning 3k pw only at brighton.

current stage top 3 + 1 cup win at is good enough. hope to see more young players starting in coming rotation games.
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casemiro also cost us 60m... do you think brighton will wan lesser for a 21 years old? and knowing arsenal is very despo now... lol... january no cheap deals one la... if gt cheap deal u also takut... lol
tontolou
post Jan 30 2023, 03:26 PM

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Saw somewhere that Greenwood is back to training.

That's good news tbh on the attacking front of the team.
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(tontolou @ Jan 30 2023, 03:26 PM)
Saw somewhere that Greenwood is back to training.

That's good news tbh on the attacking front of the team.
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no reliable news on this... i doubt so... plus his case doesnt seems can settle anytime soon... career ruined for a stupid reason... going to be next ravel morrison soon... he is lucky that our club didnt release him with immediate effect
zhou.xingxing
post Jan 30 2023, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(tontolou @ Jan 30 2023, 03:26 PM)
Saw somewhere that Greenwood is back to training.

That's good news tbh on the attacking front of the team.
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at least can maintain fitness while waiting for the trial results i guess. exciting prospect but play stupid thing.. sads
zhou.xingxing
post Jan 30 2023, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(aaron1717 @ Jan 30 2023, 12:15 PM)
casemiro also cost us 60m... do you think brighton will wan lesser for a 21 years old? and knowing arsenal is very despo now... lol... january no cheap deals one la... if gt cheap deal u also takut... lol
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casemiro was a late purchase and a 5 time cl winner still at 30.. glad we got him.. his 60m looks really good now.. he literally upgraded the midfield presence in defence and attack dept.

rmb we payed similar amount for adm almost 10 years ago...
aaron1717
post Jan 30 2023, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(zhou.xingxing @ Jan 30 2023, 04:46 PM)
casemiro was a late purchase and a 5 time cl winner still at 30.. glad we got him.. his 60m looks really good now.. he literally upgraded the midfield presence in defence and attack dept.

rmb we payed similar amount for adm almost 10 years ago...
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hopefully casemiro still gt 5 years left with us now... he proved everyone wrong when he showcase his passing is as good as kroos and modric...

ADM is a good purchase.... until he kena robbed... lol... and his style doesnt jive with LVG... its like u ask RM players to play barca style...
KennRicky
post Jan 31 2023, 01:49 AM

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Cancelo to Bayern Munich, extremely out of expectation.
Don't think any team can stop Arsenal now.
simmarjit
post Jan 31 2023, 04:42 AM

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QUOTE(KennRicky @ Jan 31 2023, 01:49 AM)
Cancelo to Bayern Munich, extremely out of expectation.
Don't think any team can stop Arsenal now.
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He wasnt playing anyway, he had arguments with Pep regarding that, so Pep showed him the door.
BartoCastro
post Jan 31 2023, 07:48 AM

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We have a luck of the draw, FA Cup and Carabao Cup. IIRC we got ALL home ties (except Forest away, obligation)

West Ham are always the tough matches but it's at home. Moyes will rotate.
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post Jan 31 2023, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(KennRicky @ Jan 31 2023, 01:49 AM)
Cancelo to Bayern Munich, extremely out of expectation.
Don't think any team can stop Arsenal now.
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When a team can scored a lot of half chance or difficult angle goals, this is one of champion requirements

In Pep’s system, anyone can be replace plus City recruitment team can easily find another one to replace him except for SSS type of player like Haaland
zhou.xingxing
post Jan 31 2023, 09:22 AM

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last transfer day.. not even loanee coming in? saddings. woodward out owait

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