yewkhuay,

<< commision is paid by the company to the agent not by clients>>

This is a very NAIVE statement. There is a Chinese saying : Wool always came from sheep.

<<be fair with insurance agents, they r just making a living . >>

They could make a living by selling the RIGHT and CORRECT amount of insurance to people. It is selling the WRONG insurance and convincing people to buy TOO MUCH insurance that I am against.

If someone buy an expensive car, the person at least enjoy an expensive car. If a person buy TOO MUCH insurance, besides wasting money, the person get NOTHING.

Dreamer

so if mishap happen to some 1 that doesn't have insurance and he need pay all the medical espenses ?

so in this case, will he regret not to buy 1 that time ?

clsiluf,

What kind of medical insurance?? How much is the coverage?? How much is the deductable? How much is the premium??

Insurance make sense when you pay a little to cover a huge financial risk. So, how much is the financial risk of a young people getting sick?? How much is the risk of young people getting sick need a huge medical expense?? Is that the greatest financial risk for young people? Hint: it is not.

How many insurance agent actually went through all those stuff with a client?? Or, they just say buy as much insurance as you can pay?

Don't play FUD with me.

Medical insurance is about the lowest priority kind of insurance for most young people.

Dreamer

P.S. We had went through this and more on the insurance thread until no insurance agent dare to post there anymore.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 6 2007, 01:22 AM

Dear Dreamer,

1. Not all cases of TPD is covered under personal accidents policies and not all TPDs are solely due to accidents. It is true that PA policies are cheaper, hence you should make sure you have sufficient on both type of policies.

2. Critical Illnesses can result in someone being TPD hence, yes they do pay you if you suffer TPD due to Critical Illnesses, in which personal accident policy does not cover. Wouldn't it be a blessing already if you do not have to fork out money to pay the Hospital Bills, should you not have a Medical Card? How are you gonna even pay for the treatment let alone survive for the rest of your life?

3. Yes, hence newer plans comes with more flexibility. Refer to the 10 year no lasped feature I explained earlier. During the last downturn, where many business owners suffer from insufficient cash flow and banks do not want to lend them money at all, where can they turn to keep thier business alive? Yes, they actually turn to the insurance companies, which can allow you to loan out funds to keep your business alive if you have some cash value inside the policy.

4. You're talking about human nature here. There is no 'Oh If I knew earlier, I would have done this/that' when its already been done. Many prudent savers whom have very good discipline, do over spend sometimes because they just had to. Its a Human nature part of wanting something which takes over you for the short period. Can anyone tell me that they have never ever overspent on something they dont need and regret about it later? If you do end up in such a situation when you're in a debt hole, the cash value inside your policy can actually be a life saver.

Can you guarantee that nothing would happen to you while you're trying to create your 3-6 months emergency fund? Some would take 1 year, most 2-3 years, or some even 5 years if they have lots of commitments. Insurance saving plans can work out both as a emergency fund saver, because the cash value can be withdrawn for smaller emergencies, while the protection part would help in those larger than normal emergencies such at scenario 1 and 2 above.

At the end of the day, no matter what people tell you or share with you, it is still up to your own choice to decide. Are the risk of life worth taking it for granted? If you have a choice, would you try to minimise all the posibilities of such occurences happening before it actually Happens? Or would you just wait and see and if you're lucky enough for it to not happen to you or when it actually does, then you can see how bad it is. If lucky then can restart the game, if not then its game over. =)

So which way do you think putting your RM100 into is safer? The Bank or with Insurance? No rights, no wrongs, just a choice different people make in thier different ways of life.

1. it's not naive, it's u understand tht all commission based job pay from the sales brought in, even the office staff oso get their pay bcoz sales person get business for the company , if not , where does the salary come from ? in insurance agent or MLM case, the commission is more directly related to business brought in, tht's y ppl think agents take money from them....come to think about it , it's either company earn ur money or agent earn ur money , and u pay for what u think worth buying , fair n square. All wool come from sheep....directly or indirectly...

2. they r making a living, too bad some agents earning a living not so professionally. where ever we go, people will try to sell us things tht we probably don't need too much: handphone, water filter, car, matress, fridge, sun glasses, watches, supplements , jackets, dress, jewelleries.....they also mislead customer with beautiful words n sell on features n benefits....aren't they wrong too ? they can't get the money from ur pocket if u don't agree to buy.....don't blame agents when u bought some plans tht u never need it....coz u need to sign and pay, 2 chances to stop the disaster b4 u even regret about it.

Dear Dreamer,

To know how much is the financial risk of young people getting sick, just refer to any hospitals and they will tell you they have patients ranging from babies to 90 year olds.

True it may not be the greatest risks, but is it still not a risk? Hence the reason why all insurance premiums are calculated based on the certain risk levels of individuals at the different stages in thier life. There's a reason why its so much cheaper to buy when you're young compared to when you're older, because the risk is much lower.

How expensive can it be to be paying RM30 a month if you're aged between 11-35 (young category) and be able to get over RM60,000 coverage on medical bills a year should you be hospitalised? How much does a simple operation cost nowadays? 10k? 30k? 50k?

How many agents have you met so far? Have you met me before? Have you ever seriously bought from those agent that tell you to buy as much insurance as possible?

We're not playing with any of the consumers out there, we're just doing our job, that is to help them plan before such occurences happen. We don't mind being the bad guys, to show the them the ugly parts of life should something unforeseen occurs, to tell them the things they do not want to hear happen to them and thier loved ones. However, the choice, the reasoning, the common sense is still within thier control. We don't brainwash them into a insurance buying machine and we definitely can't force them to say yes, and only yes. As a matter of fact most of the time people will say No, No and No. But we still go on doing our jobs, until someone whom think they it would actually benefit them, say yes.

We're just here to share with them what others whom are just like any normal person, which never ever thought that it could happen to them, actually happened to them, together with the statistics to back it up. No one person can predict the future, so why bear all the possible risk when there is a way to minimise it at a fraction of the cost?

Just pay RM30 a month to cover the smaller hospitalization risk with a Medical Card, add another RM100 to cover the Life/TPD risk, another RM50 for Critical Illness and another RM20 for the Personal Accident. Better still if you get all the coverage packaged together you'll be paying discounted rate of RM150, instead of RM200. In the mean time you'll have some cash value in the policy which can be withdrawn as one part of your emergency fund when needed and should nothing happen to you for at the end of 15-20 years period, you'll be getting back all the sum you've paid plus the interest earned over the years. Should you want to continue the premium is fixed leveled all the way up to age 100.

Is it that complicated? It is that difficult to decide? Life is short, so keep it simple and you'll be able to enjoy the greater things in life. Don't spend time worrying about what's gonna happen and what's not, let us worry it for you.

Zarth,

Can you guarantee what would happen to a person is precisely the same event that protected by the insurance that you buy?? No too.

If you buy life insurance, you only protect against life.

If you buy medical insurance, you are only protect medical condition.

And, so on.........

You can use the money in the bank for any kind of emergency. For insurance, it only works if that particular kind of event happen to you and you buy that kind of insurance.

So, a person should only buy insurance if

A) That event is very likely to happen.

B) That event cause a significant financial impact that cannot cover by emergency fund.

C) That cost of that insurance is low enough.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 6 2007, 04:03 AM

I am actually hated by insurance agents..
I view insurance as a luxury item, because:
One should only buy insurance if one is rich;
It's wiser if you invest the same amount of money as the premium regularly in a liqiud investment, which in the long run would be more than what insurance companies can pay..
These are my opinion, so you might have different views from me..

Nowadays the insurance industry has become very transparent. After you purchase an insurance package, you will get to see how much of it really goes to insurance, how much goes to the insurance agents, and how much goes into saving.

Just ask your insurance agents provide more on details on each item.. Don't be surprise to see your agent making commission over 100% of your annual premium with those fancy plans.

Jordy, you buy insurance if there's "something" for you to protect.
Investment and savings are different. Do not mix.


zarth,
We're talking about insurance as a need and not over insure. Savings and investment can be elsewhere which gives better returns (if you know how) and also the flexibility.
You're talking about flexibility in withdrawing the "cash value" of your policy; but how long does it take to reach that stage when "cash value" is withdrawable? If there's no cash value, how much percentage can one get from his "savings" with insurance company?
Why not just dump it in FD when one can withdraw the money when he is in dire need. So even if he doesn't earn profit, he still gets back the capital.

If we're talking about investment, there's more investment vehicle out there that gives better return and the flexibility instead of "forced" to pay/invest. Noticed I didn't use save, as saving and investment is another different term.

In your previous post you talked about human nature and discipline. So you're suggesting this type of "force savings" with instill the discipline in one to commit himself to pay.
But if it's all about human nature, the guy if he doesn't have the discipline would also lapse his insurance payment; don't you think so?

Dear Dreamer,

Nope there is no 100% guarantee, but I'd say up to 90% of daily occurences can be covered. I can also tell you that for every 17 minutes, someone who buys life insurance will not live to pay the second premium.

Exactly the main reason why insurance exists in the first place. Because there's no 100% guarantee to life. But if you can cover up to 90%, would you prefer 70%? 50%? Your choice. Can you imagine if insurance does not exists at all and everyone has to fend for thier ownself against financial distresses that happen daily?

Hence its important to cover all the possible loopholes, you can never cover 100% but 90% is still better than 0%.

Again, I would like to stress on what are the possible "out of the blue" or "any kind of" emergencies scenarios that could occur in my earlier post. Do contribute if there is any other possible important scenarios?

What are the bigger emergencies? How much money do you require for those smaller emergencies? Does it make sense to allow insurance to cover the 90%, while you can still set aside money into FD to cover the balance 10%?



A) The problem is Accidents/Deaths/TPDs/Critical Illness/Hospitalization can come at any one time in our lives, be it young/old/boy/girl/rich/poor.

There is no way to show the exact future predictability table that it is more likely to happen to someone compared to the other.

Hence, the only thing you can rely on is past history, statistics, which is exactly what actuarist used to determine the premiums.

But as we all know past history does not always indicate the future. Therefore, premiums are constantly revised based on the latest statistics & trends.

So the very likely to happen factor is already reflected in differences in the premium you're paying.


B) Yes exactly.

What events? Can't think of more than 5? No worries, let me show you, and I'll tell you as many significant events leading to financial ruins as I have experienced, heard and seen others go through. Most significant ones being similar to point A.

C) How low can you price your product to make sure there's enough profitability and still be able to keep the stakeholders happy while having to survive the ups and downs of the economy?

Which business runs at a constant lost?

What matters more when point A actually occurs?

The lowest priced product out there in the market?

Or the actual slighly higher prices policy which you bought last 2 years because someone actually took the time to explain and show you the features and benefits.

What you want in life, is your decison and yours alone to make. We're only here to be the planners/advisors.

If you don't feel comfortable then don't buy, but for the each 3700 over new policy holders each day, you can be sure to trust us that we're here to deliver you the cheque should the 90% of significant events befall you.

---

Added on October 6, 2007, 5:47 pmNewer plans comes with cash value in the first year itself.

If you buy Term, hence no cash value, hence no 'savings' for you to withdraw from.

Again "out of the blue", "any kind of emergencies", " in dire needs" what are those scenarios? List them all down. PM me and I'll be glad to share it with you personally.

How much would you require? Eg. Would RM100 a month into FD for the next 10 years be enough to cover a RM30k hospital bill? Can you predict when it would happen? 1 month, 6 months after you put in FD? or during the middle, say 5 years or right just when the FD reach RM30k, Ding! You hit jackpot! Back to RM0 again.

With insurance, you will get your cash value on top of the coverage.

You will get back your capital + dividend earned, just that the lock period is longer.

Are we talking about investment now? Yes, there is ample investment products out there in the market, just post up a thread saying you have RM100k, where should I invest? and I'm sure fellow forumers will give you all thier input from Props to UT to Shares to Forex to Genting to 4D to now they have Mega 6/52 etc etc...

Human behaviour is very simple, say if you put RM100 monthly into your FD and there is no penalty at all should you stop saving or they might just wanna take it all out, other than losing that bit of interest, they would not hesitate to do it. Nothing much to lose what? Capital still there.

But on the other hand, if they put it in insurance, and you tell them oh, sorry but you'll be losing money if you stop saving or if you surrender early, how would you think they would react? Har? Lose capital ar? Nvm le, try continue lo, my new Sony Ericsson K850i can wait I guess.

Discipline or no dicipline, when there is a force stronger than your desire holding you back, especially fear of losing money. You would think twice.

---

Added on October 6, 2007, 6:12 pmDear Jordy,

That's actually the opposite, if you're filthy rich, you don't even actually need much insurance, just self insure yourself.

But for some rich folks it all about wealth preservation, they buy all the possible insurance with emphasis that if nothing happens to them they get back all returns + dividend.

Should they not survive and decide to go Happy Land early, they can still pass on the proceeds to thier heirs making them even more filthier and richer. This is thier way of leaving a legacy so that thier great grandchildren can say, "I dont really know my great grandfather at all, but I can remember his name clearly, because its written in big bold letters on a piece of paper, together along with the cheque starting with a 1 figure and followed by a long number of 0s he left me when I attained age 21. He must be a Really Cool Great Grandpa!".

This post has been edited by Zarth: Oct 6 2007, 06:12 PM

Zarh,


<<A) The problem is Accidents/Deaths/TPDs/Critical Illness/Hospitalization can come at any one time in our lives, be it young/old/boy/girl/rich/poor.

There is no way to show the exact future predictability table that it is more likely to happen to someone compared to the other.

Hence, the only thing you can rely on is past history, statistics, which is exactly what actuarist used to determine the premiums.

But as we all know past history does not always indicate the future. Therefore, premiums are constantly revised based on the latest statistics & trends.>>

Bingo. So, tell me in order of likelihood of destroying a person's financial future, which are the following are more likely to happen for a male person between 25 to 30 years old?

A) TPD
B) Life
C) Medical
D) Critical illness
E) Accident

Insurance is used for risk management. To manage risk, you need to know

A) The likelihood that it can happen
B) In the event that happen, what is the usual financial cost?? What is the worst case financial cost?

How many insurance agent selling insurance without telling the customer about (A) and (B)??

I am NOT against people buying insurance for risk management. I am AGAINST people buying insurance without knowing what is the level of the risk that they are managing. For example, young people that spend a lot of money on life insurance when TPD protection is more important for them. They are more likely to be disabled than die in young age. And, financially, to be disable is worst than dying for young people.

What is the most common event that kill young people?? Accident?? Medical?? And, etc?? Which one is the highest risk??

Insurance is about RISK management. How can we talk about RISK management when we are NOT given information about what is the level of RISK that we are facing at each stage of life??

I have great respect for you. You are one of few insurance agent that post at LYN who try to give CORRECT information and actually service the customer. You actually give service to the customer and think about what kind of protection that a customer need. The problem we have at LYN is we have too MANY insurance agents posting at LYN that does not do that.

If a person buy a car, he at least know how many wheels is in that car. If a person buy an insurance, he does not know how much risk that he is protect against and how much the risk cost. Does this make any sense to people?

Dreamer

I still see insurance is important, if you involved in an accident, people will check whether you have insurance (insurance card for example) and you could get insured even if you are unconsious ...

Imagine if you have millions in the bank, stocks and mutual funds ... those money can't be touched unless you are awake and walk to the bank to withdraw it. No one else can do that for you!

Insurance ... the company and agent will do that for you.

i agree that insurance is very important in our life, we are face with risk everyday, everywhere. actually hor, the biggest risk we face is critical illness... accident is only if u are in hi risk jobs leh...

rich or poor also need insurance lor... cos insurance is to protect against the loss of ability to earn income leh, not just about paying medical bills or savings for retirement. THe main point and reason of buying it is for that lor... actually, it really depends on individuals, u and i may have different expectations, so u & i may buy insurance for diff reasons. in fact, the poor needs it the most la hehe

protection, savings, investment, estate planning.. all are very different actually.. savings also got many types, not only in the bank or insurance. u can overinsure urself, if u have all that spare cash then it is ok.. but if sampai u suffocate every month, then need to review lor.

best is to, first.. get a comprehensive insurance that suits ur need & budget.. if got extra cash, think of what u want and how u want to spend it. If u want to save, what is the purpose? for how long? risk taker? think of all the options out there where u can save ur $$. If u wanna save and invest, there are a lot options out there that caters to this particular reasons. personally, insurance is not investment (my opinion, no offence please)

hope my 2 sen can help with some of u there. anyway, dont put all ur eggs in one basket!!!

nissin,

<<insurance is to protect against the loss of ability to earn income leh>>

You know that such an insurance does not exist in Malaysia. So, don't "bait and switch". Telling people something but selling people something else.

Don't tell me that you are another unqualified insurance agent.

Dreamer

---

Added on October 7, 2007, 10:41 pmp4n6,

<<Imagine if you have millions in the bank, stocks and mutual funds ... those money can't be touched unless you are awake and walk to the bank to withdraw it. No one else can do that for you! >>

This is so STUPID. If you have millions in bank, you should be smart enough to have

A) Joint account so that your wife can withdraw money for you

B) Living will so that someone else or a lawyer can withdraw money for you.

Do you really know anyone that has millions in the bank??

BTW, people at that level has at least 10K to 30K sitting at home in cash for their usual expenses.

P.S.: Anyone that is rich enough will not put millions in a bank. They know that only up to 90K is insured per account.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 7 2007, 10:41 PM

Nissin,

don't know how you get the count,have a look in critical ill coverage,you will know chaNCE to get accident is actualy higher,plus most accident insurance allow you do claim even just minor injury.

Dreamer,

in malaysia,most of our life insurance now a day are 2 in 1(die and tpd)not much malaysia want to buy pure die insurance,unless there are senior citizen which not tpd coverage offered.

Zarth,

i not quick agree to take insurance saving plan as emergency fund,it is not easy to reach the stage that policy have cash value and even reach,the cash are not big.better create a seperate emergency fund that can combine from your saving and investment.

[quote=dreamer101,Oct 7 2007, 10:34 PM]
nissin,

<<insurance is to protect against the loss of ability to earn income leh>>

You know that such an insurance does not exist in Malaysia. So, don't "bait and switch". Telling people something but selling people something else.

Don't tell me that you are another unqualified insurance agent.

Dreamer

---

Added on October 7, 2007, 10:41 pm

hi dreamer!

why i said that insurance is to protect against the loss of ability to earn income is... because, there are few reasons why i wont be able to work.. which is accident, critical illness, retrenchment, masuk hospital and so on.. retrenchment i tak boleh control la k.. and also the rest . But, coming from not so rich family hor, i am responsible to put food on table one.. if i kena accident or masuk hospital or critical illness, i know guaranteed my family no money to eat, no money to pay bills and treat my sickness. that is when insurance comes in to compoensate me for these things, since i paid so much $$ for it liao. the $$ i get from my policy wil then help with my modest lifestyle and my medical bills lor. This is what i meant by protect against the loss of ability to earn income. Imagine if i got no insurance at all, at times like this it is even more worse.

is there any insurance agent here? Wat is the reason ppl need insurance ah?

also, perhaps u have come across some unprofessional agents or as u mentioned, unqualified insurance agent. Who hasn't? My own agent also not any good, I had to dig my own research into my policies rather than the fella advising me. buta buta the fella get commission, i also dont realy care la cos my main thing is get protection for myself.

anyhow there are many types of agents and policies out there. just get one that suits own needs and budget lor. ppl buy insurance for many reasons and my reason is as stated as above, so i believe in my reason that it is to protect my loss of ability to earn income

---

Added on October 8, 2007, 12:32 am[quote=athlon 11,Oct 7 2007, 11:42 PM]
Nissin,

don't know how you get the count,have a look in critical ill coverage,you will know chaNCE to get accident is actualy higher,plus most accident insurance allow you do claim even just minor injury.

hi athlon

chance to get accident is mostly depends on the job. that is why when we buy insurance, we are asked what is our occupation and we are rated according to their category. The higher risk job, the more expensive ur premiums. Why, is becos chances of accident is higher. But for those work in office job, the cheaper premium cos they are not expose to so much risks out there that leads to accident.

They cannot rate us according to our risk of contracting critical illness rite? and look at the premiums for accident and critical illness, which is more expensive? why? today, there are 1 out of 4 ppl diagnose wif critical illness every day. it is very scary, it costs a lot to cure it. if die nevermind lor, but if survive, life still goes on...$$$



This post has been edited by nissin: Oct 8 2007, 12:32 AM

[quote=nissin,Oct 8 2007, 12:19 AM]
[quote=dreamer101,Oct 7 2007, 10:34 PM]
nissin,

<<insurance is to protect against the loss of ability to earn income leh>>

You know that such an insurance does not exist in Malaysia. So, don't "bait and switch". Telling people something but selling people something else.

Don't tell me that you are another unqualified insurance agent.

Dreamer

---

Added on October 7, 2007, 10:41 pm

hi dreamer!

why i said that insurance is to protect against the loss of ability to earn income is... because, there are few reasons why i wont be able to work.. which is accident, critical illness, retrenchment, masuk hospital and so on.. retrenchment i tak boleh control la k.. and also the rest . But, coming from not so rich family hor, i am responsible to put food on table one.. if i kena accident or masuk hospital or critical illness, i know guaranteed my family no money to eat, no money to pay bills and treat my sickness. that is when insurance comes in to compoensate me for these things, since i paid so much $$ for it liao. the $$ i get from my policy wil then help with my modest lifestyle and my medical bills lor. This is what i meant by protect against the loss of ability to earn income. Imagine if i got no insurance at all, at times like this it is even more worse.





[/quote]

nissin,

Let me repeat one more time,

WHICH INSURANCE PROTECT against the loss of ability to earn income?

It does not exist in Malaysia.

There are insurance that protect you against death, accident, critical illness and so on. They DO NOT PROTECT against loss of income. If they do, when you get retrenched, that insurance will pay you something.

The only kind of protection against loss of income under ALL circumstances are savings aka money in the bank. And, the more insurance that you buy, the less money that you can save.

If you really worry about loss of income, you should save a lot of money in the bank. Insurance only pay if you lose your income under SOME but not ALL circumstances. Since we are likely to get into a recession soon, buying MORE insurance that does not protect against job loss may not be a good idea.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 8 2007, 12:53 AM

hi dreamer!

actually, if u look around out there, there is a plan to protects against loss of income as in loss of job or retrenchment. I didnt buy this idea cos i dont believe in this policy. Loss of ability to earn income doesnt only mean kena retrench. It means loss of job. We also lose jobs if we accident or CI.. some companies are very realistic and mercenery one

in my case.. my loss of ability to earn income means cannot work. no work means no income rite? no income how to eat, pay bills? and under what circumstances wil i not be able to work? retrenchment... go find another job lor. accident/masuk hosp/critical illness.. any idea how much it will cost minimum? now hor, in hospitals.. no $$ who want to treat u? they just let u wait to die lor. if the bills comes up to 50K or more.. whre to find in the shortest time possible? my money in the bank? yes, but they are my emergency funds for other purposes. thats why i said earlier, insurance is a need.. it all depends on individuals needs and budget.

of cos we all know, insurance dont cover EVERYTHING! Its not as simple as what the agent says, cos what they say differs from the policy. Like Zarth mentioned, get covered 90% is better than nothing! Besides, even if i have 50K and above... if i kena CI or accident.. if got ppl pay for me why not ah? why need to use my hard earn savings in the bank ah? if by putting in ..lets say RM10K then (choi, touch wood) suddenly i kena CI or accident la... i get compensation of RM200K.. who benefit and who lose? go figure

i'm not against ppl of not buying insurance.. its good that they are responsible for themselves. Buy or not buy, only they themselbes know the reason why. Theres no need to force ppl to buy or believe in something they dont. there are many ways to save.. many options out there for us to save our $$. It all DEPENDS on individuals needs and goals

once a person is properly protected, they can do whatever they want with their extra savings.. in the bank, UT, stocks, properties.. whatever also is good as long as they DONT PUT ALL EGGS IN ONE BASKET

It does exist. Ask any Prudential agent. It specifically, directly, protects your monthly earned income.

This post has been edited by meejawa: Oct 8 2007, 12:47 PM