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 Automatic Gate, How much do you need to install one ?

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jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 09:02 AM

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OAE - made in Ipoh, Perak. Cheap and there are time is robust. Recently it came out with circuit board able to have 4 channel remote control whereby you can control single leaf on either side and lamp control. Runs on 12V but gearbox is small size. There is cases where the wall mount break, gate attachment mount tears the metal gate. Circuit board can be tune to run on 18V or 24V and your adjustment is slow speed timer and resistance overload.

About wall mount, using the right size of wall plug that is sufficient to hold the motor driver is good enough.


jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 09:30 AM

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DCMoto - Dated as back in late 90s. Made in Penang. Local product. Leading the pack of autogate system in terms of technology and features wise. Since the launch of GFM series back in 2006. I do admit there is been changes in model generation and batch. The reason behind it is thru R&D and feedback from dealers on how it should be improve and rectify. That's why spare parts and models has been change to improve reliability. GFM is considered the first in local autogate market to manufacture a system called "planetary gear system" consist of 22 gears from small to large size. The ratio is 1:10 and runs on 12-16V max. Wear and tear on gearbox is based on how well you maintain your iron gate rollers and bearing. Do not use grease. Just WD40 is sufficient. If you don't want your autogate to breakdown, do yourself a favor. Lubricate it.

GFM-925W is the current flagship model for DCMoto. Is been improved to use SMD circuit board to reduce power consumption even in standby mode with a relay to cut off AC power during sleep mode, relying on your backup battery which helps to discharge your battery rather than just charging it. It comes with fuzzy logic pre-program 3 Speed system to avoid the gate moving furiously. What you experience is smooth movement. 1st Speed Fast, 2nd speed medium, 3rd speed cushion mode. All is done by first start-up auto calibration mode.

It's the first model to come up with 10-channel remote control and WIRELESS KEYPAD for indoor house. FYI, DCmoto is the first to release a 2 wire keypad back in 2008. Ordinary autogate only provide PRESS or PRESS BELL switch. Those are old school. A keypad allows you to have more control and feature from your autogate system. Such as operating single leaf on either side, LOCK function which disable autogate system (child lock), operate your Lamp, setting auto-close & alarm.

Back in GFM 925W release the keypad in WIRELESS type. First to do so, it allows you to install the keypad where you want it to be positioned. Remember is wireless, runs on battery. So you have the freedom where to install it.

Extra provided accessories is the small electronic siren whereby you can trigger a PANIC mode. A good feature to scare thief off.

Noise level, bearable. Any mechanical movement with motor is there is sound.

Anyway this is just a review of stuff. Not to be BIAS about. I'm just sharing.

Any inquires do post here and I'll try to assist you.
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(cheeshion @ Mar 27 2013, 06:59 PM)
Anyone is using UNIGATE system here? It is pricey, but seems very well designed and safe too. What say you?
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Unigate is using DCMOTO GFM905 system. biggrin.gif
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 10:03 AM

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to be frank, every installer wants a product is cheap and high profit. Who doesn't want that? Even contractors want a share of it.

DCMoto somehow is pricier than the rest. And it's also blame on due to previous generation having problem with noise and gearing. Somehow they manage to counter the problem thru revision and upgrades.

The best part of dcmoto GFM series is the components are modular whereby service parts are easy to be replace. I've customer using it since the first gen back in early 2007 till today still in tip top. Internal motor haven't replace other than gearing being worn off. All parts are replaceable. Compared with OAE is arm to arm replacement. Too much hassle for arm system to be replace.
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 02:37 PM

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I'm an installer. Been in this business since 2001.

In here I'm just advising and given tips on proper choice.

That's all.
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(~Curious~ @ Jun 15 2013, 02:47 PM)
jimmylim85, what is the average market price for folding autogate abt 13 ft wide?i signed up with UNIgate at11k+,did I get ripped off?
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Wow.

13' wrought iron steel gate with 1.6mm thickness with powder coating is roughly around rm 2k to rm 3k

Unigate is using dcmoto GFM 905. Now you can get DCMoto GFM 925 for around rm 1.5k wiring is around rm 500-800

You're paying roughly rm 5500 half the price of unigate.

Unigate beauty is just without the pipe underneath for guidance. But middle of the gate has a stopper. If that stopper breaks then the middle fold will opens.

Conventional folding gate has a pipe underneath for guidance. Opt for stainless steel pipe which you just have to pay extra rm 200++. Long lasting and silent operation due to smoothness of stainless steel pipe. Best part. RUST FREE!
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(~Curious~ @ Jun 15 2013, 03:30 PM)
omg =( no can do..mom too enamoured by it liao..she sed the arm is quite strong so less chances of intruders prying the folding gate.n oso coz track system will have the wheels alwiz coming out of d track.then she also likes that they got sensor thing.
their latest design,juz out yesterday..at thei expo booth in midvalley...wrought iron with powder coat if im not wrong.
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No worries. Unigate is using DCMoto 905 system. Is the same product with rebadge for unigate. Is strong enough.

Remember golden rule, autogate is meant for convienent not security. No matter how strong it is, it still can be pry open no matter what autogate motor you install.
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 07:18 PM

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I'm from Ipoh Perak. Won't be covering other state for installation. What I can do for you guys is I can give consultant on products to choose.

I'm not sure whether KL pricing include installation or not.

Feature wise and gearbox robust I still choose DCMoto GFM925W.

If you're into Itallian autogate system is going to be costly and service parts too.
jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 10:42 PM

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I can be an adviser since i'm an installer and sales.

Italian motor durability depends, sliding type is so far on par with local made motors. For Swing/Fold type is not really that good since the since of the motor casing is big and bulky. I've install mostly AC Motor made in Italy depending on customer requests. They last for at least 10 years or so. Usual worn parts are bearings.

The truth is UniGate just design and fabricate the main gate. They don't manufacture the motor system and control panel. They might had patented the movement part for it. But the motor system is 100% made from DCMoto in penang. I've seen the system demo back in exhibition, is GFM 905NSE. Just branded DIGICRAFT (having other re-branding to avoid in-competitive market). If you look at UNIGATE youtube video, you can see the motor, keypad and remote control, control box is a direct DNA of DCMoto GFM 905NSE. There is no german technology in anyway. Pioneer in autogate system is from Italy no matter what. Our local manufacture copies + improved + enhance + redesign it. We should be proud of our local designer/manufacturer.

Autogate sensor protection in usual is optional. By means that the control panel has the feature, just the accessories not included such as active infra red sensor (TX + RX) and siren box (GFM 925W has siren box built-in).

Unigate middle mount act as a locking mechanism which hold the end of both fold swing in-line. If that mount gave way, then is not align.


jimmylim85
post Jun 15 2013, 10:58 PM

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AUTOGATE. This should be pinned.

Sliding type : There is only one method. TRACK/GEAR driven sliding motor. Comes in two type of motor powered.

AC (Alternate Current) 240V motor and DC (Direct Current) 12V or 24V or 26V DC motor.

AC = No main power, manual release. There is no backup power for it to run in case of power failure. AC Motor has more horsepower than DC. Best suit for heavy and long length gate. Especially found in factory gate and big bungalow house. Prone to lightning/thunder damage, usually you get motherboard toast or worse scenario is motor armature toast or short-circuit. Require limit switch to stop the gate movement, which mean bad if your limit switch on any end is not functioning or missing. It won't stop, crash! If flood prone area, bad idea to install AC motor!

DC type = Best suited for residential gate not exceeding 20feet length. Low voltage but high current. The safest possible motor available. Reason is simple, 24V or even 26V won't electrocute you! Flexible in speed as DC motor can have variable speed at pre-programmed. Prone to flood area is not an issue, it runs even submerged in water. Is the same DC operated motor technology that been use on DC motor water pump submerged in a pool.

Limit switch, it has two type. One is using limit switch to stop the gate in motion. Where else another technology as we called it "counting step system" It was first introduce back in 1999 from DCMoto. One of the best selling motor in Malaysia. It operates without limit switch, meaning you do have to worry about missing or faulty limit switch!! What DCMoto invented is using a counting system whereby it counts the steps it takes from gate motion from Point A to Point B, then calibrate it operate the gate system at 2 speed (generation 1) & 3 speed (generation 2). You get high and low speed and for Gen2, you get cushion speed. Is considered the most accurate counting step DC motor sliding gate system.

The best part of DC motor is having backup power. Powered by rechargeable battery whenever there is power failure. Whenever there is main power, it uses the main power to operate the system while charging the battery when is in idle mode. You don't have to get down your car when there is power failure! Downside, rechargeable battery doesn't last long! Lifespan for rechargeable battery can be around 12 to 36 months depending on quality and humidity.

jimmylim85
post Jun 16 2013, 12:13 AM

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Sensor accessories im not sure how much they charge in KL.

UniGate is considered the first to design trackless folding gate.

Folding Gate was first invented by LEGATE/BTE Engineering from Ipoh, Perak back in 2000. That's when the evolution of autogate system takes place. Without this company designing this folding gate, there wouldn't be UniGate as we see today.
jimmylim85
post Jun 16 2013, 01:29 AM

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About choosing Iron Gate, I don't think you need to be so fancy with it. Is just a gate for your house, spending over rm 10k is so unnecessary, or worse... RM 21k?? You could easily save rm 10k for other parts of your house for renovation.

My golden thumb rule is simple. "your neighbor operate auto-gate, you also can operate auto-gate". Nothing fancy. Iron gate design always change in trend. Hard to follow.

Btw Casa Asia is also made in Penang. Good product.
jimmylim85
post Jun 16 2013, 01:35 AM

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QUOTE(zodd @ Jun 16 2013, 01:07 AM)
Salute for the great info. My installer gonna install OAE brand this coming week. Folding type gate. The autogate will operate at least 10 times per day but not more than 20 judging from the current usage.

Was planning to get DC or Casa Asia from the information gathered here but in the end was getting good price for the OAE. Will try 1st and if any problem arise and hard to get assist, will switch to DC brand.

On Unigate, I was quote 21k for 15 ft LED Stainless Steel. And till the time I walked away, they still dun want to tell me the brand of their autogate.
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FYI..

OAE = screw driven arm type. First found in DCMoto back in year 2000. Even Italian arm type is using screw driven.

About hydraulic driven, it exist but mostly made in Italy. Never heard from local producing it due to high cost and reliability issue such as rubber seals and oil leak.

Casa Asia & DCMoto uses the same "planetary gear system".

There is some photo i'm not sure is it appropriate to post on how OAE damage done.
jimmylim85
post Jun 16 2013, 09:21 AM

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In actual fact, OAE and DCMoto share the same depth space taken roughly 6.5 inches. Just because of OAE look slimmer doesn't mean it does take up space.

In gearbox. OAE gearbox is horizontal where else DCMoto GFM gearbox is vertically constructed.

Here is a comparison between OAE and DCMoto GFM925W


OAE 333 Stainless Steel. Note : cable is exposed.

Attached Image

DCMoto GFM925W. Note : cable is hide inside the cover box. Underneath. Clean and smart looking.

Attached Image
jimmylim85
post Jun 16 2013, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jun 16 2013, 09:08 AM)
Thanks for sharing, good to share and exchange knowledge.

OAE = Screw Driven = WORM Drive in engineering term, there are good and bad for WORM and planetary/Epicyclic gearing.  WORM have seaf breaking (non-reversibility), Planetary required breaking gears/shaft to prevent the gate push open.

Given the same build and quality both will last long. Correct me if I am wrong, during my search for autogate I find the DC motor will be harder to fit in smaller gate like 10' gate, putting the DC motor may take up more space, and actually the submerge/arm version will be better.
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Correction, underground motor is the worst. Runs on clutch type motor. Years goes by when the rubber seal is damage, water enters then you'll have endless problem. Solenoid locking in the middle, adds another part need to be service in years goes by. OLD technology, runs on timing and bangs! in either opening or closing it. Limited to swing type only.
jimmylim85
post Jun 17 2013, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(petlu28 @ Jun 17 2013, 12:09 PM)
i would like chioose DC Moto 925W. Do you know where i can get in KL? BTW I just use back developer mild steel only. Is it no problem with using back mild steel?
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No problem.

Even old gates works.

Here is a picture of it. rclxms.gif Dated 2009. GFM905SE

Attached Image
jimmylim85
post Jun 17 2013, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(petlu28 @ Jun 17 2013, 12:09 PM)
i would like chioose DC Moto 925W. Do you know where i can get in KL? BTW I just use back developer mild steel only. Is it no problem with using back mild steel?
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One more photo to show you how big the gate it could handle.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
jimmylim85
post Jun 17 2013, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(petlu28 @ Jun 17 2013, 12:55 PM)
Do you know how much can get in KL include installation. Wiring will done by wiring contractor.
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I'm not sure KL pricing is how much to be exact. Wiring can be done by the installer or you can engage a wiring contractor.

QUOTE(weitatt @ Jun 17 2013, 01:11 PM)
If you are seriously looking at a DCMOTO hybrid type system then consider CASA ASIA as well. Basically both adopt the same concept of having a rotating arm driven from a planetary gear system instead of having a screw gear design.  CASA ASIA is an offshoot company from DCMOTO and they have developed a similar system to the DCMOTO system which they claim have improvements from the lessons learnt from the DCMOTO system. 

In comparing both systems side-by-side I find the CASA ASIA mechanism to be quieter and overall smoother.

These 2 companies manufacture their products in Penang and general repairs within Klang valley takes a longer time unless the local vendor has spare parts stocked locally on their own account.  Otherwise most arm gate vendors would have plenty of spare parts available as their systems are less specialise and they usually have a 1 for 1 exchange policy with their principal armgate manufacturer.
Pros and Cons of these hybrid planetary gear systems.

PROS
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1. Neater and simpler installation as motor is hidden behind column and gate arm is relatively slender
2. Quieter operation from planetary gear system
CONS
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1. More complicated gear system. 
2. Not a conventional system that can be maintained or repaired by just any autogate contractor
3. Spare parts only available directly from manufacturer or through their authorised resellers, as a result repair will take longer and and spare parts cost would pricing would be higher
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Well Planetary Gear system has been adopted by armgate system too. I've seen the internal gearbox of armgate and DCMoto, Casa Asia.

Only big difference is the gear size! Armgate tend to have smaller gear size/gearbox to fit inside an armgate due to the long screw driven arm.

DCMoto and Casa Asia uses vertical mount planetary gear system in which they have bigger gear size to withstand wear and tear usage.

Regarding the complex of gearbox spare parts is bunch of BULLSHIT! You can obtain spare parts to be replace or send back for warranty and repair like any other armgate system. Reason behind why armgate system employ 1 to 1 exchange because is a big hassle to dissemble to replace just a single part. Due to the compact size, you can imagine how cramp the internal system is.

Btw Armgate system mostly made in china and local assembly. China have mass-production of this motor system.

DCMoto and Casa Asia is made in Penang and local assembly. I've been to both manufacture factory and seen with my own eye.

jimmylim85
post Jun 17 2013, 11:01 PM

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For your reference :

- DCMoto has been in this autogate system way longer than OAE. OAE started in business somewhere 2003. I've already installed DCMoto arm-type motor way back in 2001.
- DCMoto has been using DIGITAL TIMING control board since year 2000 for their ARM type. What does digital timing means that it uses programmed 0.5sec stepping for High Speed.
- OAE control panel is using varistor to tune the timing for high speed, inaccurate and tends to wear off in years to go.
- OAE wasn't the grand daddy of ARM gate, they copy idea from other great grand daddy of ARM type manufacture. I've been to OAE factory back in 2003. In one section of the R&D test, I saw other brand competitor arm type lying dissembled.
- OAE uses planetary gearbox back in old days. But is constructed in a very much smaller foot print, I've dissemble it to prove that is using planetary gearbox. Only the current OAE uses a much more simple gearbox but stress on the motor.

If you had seem what is inside the arm-type gearbox, you find out how small it is the gearbox. Do you think smaller gears can handle well in the long run? Of course you have seen that big screwed shaft, whats the point? It's all driven by those tiny gears found inside the gearbox. You'll be surprised how big is arm-type gearbox. Nothing longer than your conventional match box length!


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
jimmylim85
post Jun 18 2013, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(weitatt @ Jun 17 2013, 11:18 PM)
I do not dispute that DCMOTO/CASA ASIA have a more sophisticated system compared to a typical armgate system.  When we replaced our autogate system 3 years back it was a toss up between CASA ASIA (Which is like DCMOTO with a better gear system, smoother & quieter), OEA & Stagnoli Hermes system.  When we evaluated the CASA ASIA system availability or spares, the relatively higher cost, limited support in KL as well as relative complexity of the system was a deterrent.  It's like a choice better getting a fancy Alpha Romeo or a boring old Toyota, My Toyota does not go very fast or has a very complicate engine or drivetrain.  however when it breaks down I can send it to any workshop, get standard pricing on spare parts and don't have to worry that I will have to take a bus for 1-2 weeks whilst the mechanics are looking for spare parts for my car!

So every consumer has their personal preferences.

If you want sophisticate systems there' DCMOTO, CASA-ASIA, Stagnolli, FAAC and whole bunch of Italian makes.

If you prefer ease of maintenance and lower overall cost of ownership then the simpler, ubiquitous armgate system from the local manufacturers would be a more practical choice.

I would be interested to find out what the replacement cost of a single CASA-ASIA motor/gearbox/arm system would be compared to a armgate system's arm which ranges from RM250-RM400 for an entire arm replacement.
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In terms of pricing for spare parts, it also have to consider how much the dealers are selling too. ARM-type usually forced to replace the whole arm unit due to the complexity and non serviceable parts. For RM 250 most probably to get you a recondition arm type motor, RM 400 I would believe is a brand new arm type. But that's the price for one arm. Normal swing/fold system have two arms. If both arm break-down, is double the price you mention.

Compared with DCMoto/Casa Asia using planetary gearbox. It's like staged modular gearbox. Parts are replaceable, doesn't force the owner to have the complete motor system to be replaced! Usual parts that wears out is the main gear reducer. Probably last 3-5 years before it require replacement. For your information, I've never replace a complete DCMoto motor system to date! What If the DCMoto/Casa Asia faulty is just a few piece of gears which can be replaced probably around rm 100 or less for each side, you wouldn't have to force yourself replace the whole motor system.

If you're worried about unable to find spare parts for DCMoto/Casa Asia, you can always log in to their website & contact them. They will assist you on getting the spare parts. I've haven't heard of hard to get spare parts from them.

The reason DCMoto customized their circuit board is to make it perfect for customer demand for safety, reliability, featured-wise and smoothness. DCMoto has been coming up with generation of circuit board to fine-tune it. Have you seen a auto-gate system circuit board that is pure plug-play? Any ARM-type system requires you to adjust the sensitivity of the arm forcing to push/pull the gate. DCMoto/Casa Asia doesn't need that, wire up the motor cable, power up and let it "LEARN" the first time for auto calibration. Since it runs on programmed digital timing, it will never go wrong with the gate movement.



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