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 Military Thread V29

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KLthinker91
post Apr 8 2023, 11:51 PM

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From: Cherasboy
QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 8 2023, 08:34 PM)
The Euros want some degree of autonomy from the US + the need to sustain their own defence industries. There is really no point in getting Meteors if you are outside of Europe

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When was the AIM-120D invented? When was Meteor?
KLthinker91
post Apr 9 2023, 04:22 AM

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From: Cherasboy
QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 9 2023, 01:12 AM)
And your point being? The Ds are an evolutionary development. The Meteor is different design. Both are capable missiles scheduled to operate in the 2000s and beyond. There is no compelling reason to convert esp. considering the lower costs for Ds.

By the way, the UK has purchased the Ds as well in 2018 and scheduled for delivery 2-3 years later:

https://www.forces.net/news/uk-given-approv...buy-us-missiles
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UK stocking 120Ds is probably for their F-35 fleet; Meteor is operational now on Typhoon

my point is that you have to take timeline and availability into consideration when evaluating why people chose to do something
KLthinker91
post Apr 9 2023, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 9 2023, 05:56 AM)
Both Amraams Ds and Meteor are inducted into service in the 2000s. Timeline does not factor much here. I think the Meteor was available first as the Ds were made for the USAF and Marines first.
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The 2000s are a very long time!
KLthinker91
post Apr 9 2023, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Apr 9 2023, 12:39 PM)

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As has been said many times, M346FA is far behind FA50 in development and proven performance
KLthinker91
post Apr 9 2023, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 9 2023, 04:41 PM)
So what. They were induced around the same time.
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Not at all
It helps to understand why people make the decisions they do if you have a realistic understanding of what options they had at the time

QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 9 2023, 04:44 PM)
No. They are buying Amraams because the claimed additional performance of the Meteor may not matter.  Come back when sales of Meteor match that of Amraam.
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There are multiple factors besides performance why sales are made
If you want to compare sales figures then US and Soviet equipment will always be tops but that doesn't necessarily bespeak their performance

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Apr 9 2023, 04:53 PM
KLthinker91
post Apr 11 2023, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Apr 10 2023, 04:54 PM)
Would still be a politically correct choice if US weapons & system was a no Go.
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Ehhh I don't think it's fully ITAR free

QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Apr 10 2023, 04:57 PM)
That's like saying NSM is superior to whatever it is the Israeli called their SSM because it has more users.
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Gabriel series
Which actually is relatively popular in Europe, Germany and I think Finland uses it
KLthinker91
post Apr 11 2023, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 11 2023, 01:58 PM)
How? When was the Meteors IOC? est. 2016. When was the Amraams 120Ds IOC?  est. 2015. Check your facts.

No. It is clear the 120Ds and Meteor are inducted around the same time.

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Check programme development and contracting as well my dear.
KLthinker91
post Apr 11 2023, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 11 2023, 04:45 PM)
I am attempting to have a reasoned exchange of info in good faith. However, you seem to want to stretch a debate to ridiculous ends to try salvage whatever point you are making.

Not only are you not privy to what development in situ or what goes on in  these firms,  you choose to brush aside important facts such as IOC dates or first sales. These facts show proof that these two missiles i.e. meteor or the 120ds were inducted around the same time.
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the dates of development are publicly available
I'm merely drawing your attention to information you have overlooked
if you consider that offensive verging on mala fide, have it your way; I desist
good day.
KLthinker91
post Apr 13 2023, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Apr 11 2023, 07:46 PM)
Just pointing out the obvious thing abt you to everyone.
You seem offended that anyone would contradict your pronouncements or suggest you try and learn something, and lash out with vicious ad hominem at anyone who dares try
That's a very interesting attitude to life
QUOTE
I have not checked
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nuff said

since you know everything already and any attempt to say otherwise draws this kind of response, we'll all just kowtow to your omniscience then wink.gif

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Apr 13 2023, 01:05 AM
KLthinker91
post Apr 24 2023, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Apr 21 2023, 12:11 AM)
user posted image
Last i heard is the project is suspended for the time being, as the Russian navy wants to concentrate on finishing building its Admiral Gorshkov-class 'Super frigates' (above) before starting building another big ship project.
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Super?
What size is Gorshkov...

QUOTE(James831 @ Apr 20 2023, 10:06 PM)
Lider-class destroyer
dunno this Lider-class destroyer will be cancel , continue or scale down the size?

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Lider, Storm, or whatever has always been a fantasy project
Even worse than PAKFA or Armata
Russia has no large shipbuilding capability

QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Apr 23 2023, 11:22 PM)
The same could be said about KFX Vs F35
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KFX memang cannot touch F35
KLthinker91
post Apr 24 2023, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(tokroni76 @ Apr 24 2023, 12:19 AM)

Forgot Falklands already kah? French told UK all about Argentine's Exoxet codes, specs  and stock numbers. Anyone buying French military equipment are super bodoh

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actually the French are the most ruthless in selling weapons to anybody. The most advanced optics in Russian tanks currently are actually French. (So are ours.)

As for the Exocet? The Royal Navy doesn't need France to tell them about Exocet, they know all about it:

user posted image

QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Apr 24 2023, 12:25 AM)
Basically the new planned variant is an enlarged, heavier version of the current Admiral Gorshkov design with upgraded electronics and weapon capacity, hence its dubbed as a 'Super Gorshkov'.

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no offence, but I will believe that when it is commissioned and afloat biggrin.gif
the ability of Russian shipyards to deliver.... doesn't have a great reputation
KLthinker91
post Apr 27 2023, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Apr 27 2023, 06:57 PM)

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clickbait
mark my words, come September sure no comment from these bastards when she sails again

QUOTE(James831 @ Apr 25 2023, 04:23 PM)
maybe RMN should have a look at it rather than continue with the MAHARAJA LELA  LCS?
right now dunno how many if any at all of Maharaja Lela LCS will be complete and enter service, the US Navy LCS all is less than 10 years old, maybe can be use as a stopgap .

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actually worth considering

the USN's main problem with these ships is that the USN doesn't need them and they exceed the USN's manning and maintenance budget for ships of this type. for us however, they would be our major combat ships, so higher manpower and maintenance costs is not really a major headache

IF we can get them cheap and with a decent weapons fit, they would do as a stopgap. but then again there are risks involved obviously. I just wouldn't dismiss them out of hand.
KLthinker91
post Apr 28 2023, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Apr 28 2023, 05:50 PM)

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There are many many many things wrong with LCS for USN let's put this way biggrin.gif it would take too long to go through

Anyway it's just a suggestion. There could be many reasons why we shouldn't take it up either
KLthinker91
post May 5 2023, 06:51 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 5 2023, 04:28 PM)
they can be packed closer together
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Nope
KLthinker91
post May 5 2023, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 5 2023, 07:21 PM)
They can..

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the highlighted section here is less than half a meter
you squeeze how also you won't squeeze another A-50 set in there

user posted image
KLthinker91
post May 5 2023, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 5 2023, 08:40 PM)
Move the current two rows of Slyver closer similar to how they are installed on the horizon class or charles de gualle - see my previous post. Add in the individual vl mica launch cannisters behind.
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tight squeeze if at all possible - I'm still not sure
the MICA VL installation is not extremely compact
just one cell you see here measures approximately 36cm x 54cm minimum
as I showed you, the bit of gap between the two existing A-50 launchers is less than half a metre
and you can't take ALL of that space, there will always be a few cm here and there

user posted image
KLthinker91
post May 6 2023, 03:33 AM

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Beautiful picture of French Horizon class frigate

user posted image
KLthinker91
post May 6 2023, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 6 2023, 12:33 PM)
.

It is currently one of the biggest Western anti ship missile available so  there is certainly prospect for future growth.

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Blue Spear is about the size of Harpoon and carries a similar warhead

Tomahawk Block Vb is the most capable NATO ship-launched antiship missile in service

QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 6 2023, 10:33 AM)

The Micas are in self sustaining containerized launchers. They missile and individual launchers are smaller than the slyver and the asters for sure. 

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As I said, at least 36 x 54cm, and that won't fit into what's left of deck space even if you budge the existing silos a little

QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 6 2023, 10:24 AM)

the gap between the rows of Slyver launchers are even tighter - tighter than the Formidable.

I think your point is that I am suggesting for an integrated module akin to the US MK 41 system.

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The gap is deceptively small because of the size of the ship
If you compare with the people on deck, there's still at least a foot if not more of space between

My point is simply that even the standalone cell is not small enough to do what you propose
KLthinker91
post May 6 2023, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 6 2023, 02:37 PM)
Wrong. The blue spear is a larger missile at 5+ metres long. Harpoon is at about 4+ metres length..

Why are you even talking about a very very long range land attack missile that cannot be carried by the majority of the world's navies. Yes, it has recently been retrofitted to strike ships but it was not designed to do anti ship attack at the beginning or that was not the intent.

Do your home work.

Blue Spear: 5.3+ metres, weight: 760kg
you said "larger" but in reality it is "longer"
the additional length is where Blue Spear gets its range, plus other features
in terms of size, Blue Spear and Harpoon carry similar warheads

Tomahawk can be carried by any ship that can put its launch box on deck
I couldn't give a used shit what it originated as, so long as it does its job, and Tomahawk Block 5 does its job very well
I particularly like the 5b model with the Joint Multi Effects Warhead

QUOTE
On fitting in individual Mica launchers - Wrong again. I've pointed to you and as you have so generously shared via the photo of the horizon class that the slyver modules can be packed closer together. That leaves room behind for individual Mica launchers. More than enough space. Further, I've shown how 12 or more vls Mica launchers can be fitted into the tight space in front of the lmvs bridge.


If you want to continue to live in your lala land - by all means.
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and I've shown you that your "closer together" will not end up gaining much space, and shown you measurements why. you claim the LMV's bridge is "tight" but you're not looking at any objective measure at all, merely your impression of a photograph.

I'm not the one living in la la land here.
KLthinker91
post May 24 2023, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 24 2023, 12:17 PM)
Another reason is that the F-16s are extremely finicky and a nightmare to maintain
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yes it's very finicky to maintain without parts biggrin.gif

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