This may be incendiary but I’m one to speak his mind.

I sometimes wonder if the continued parking of assets in this country via property purchase is misplaced or in fact not a good way to build wealth.

There are certainly very pronounced and systemic failures in the current governing regime but everyone seems to just bury their heads in sand and ignore it. Many people who are not of the majority ethnic background own a large proportion of assets in this country which is not adequate diversification considering the very tangible risks here of economic failure and societal upheaval.

Many seem very pleased to own 3 or more properties which may be loss making and not an efficient way to build wealth but yet the cycle continues.

I very simply pose to the greater public the risk of regulatory and taxation as well as currency risks that persist with concentration risk of assets in a dysfunctional regime. There are better ways to get ahead and this sheep like behaviour has led to developers being unaccountable and arrogant. It’s frustrating to see a perception that Malaysia will operate like the US or UK.

Inefficient usage of money.

But anyways, it's their money, let them decide what they want to do with it. Remember, money isn't lost/destroyed; it's just being transferred

Depends on your goal, capability, and credibility.

In any investments similar to sports, there will be winners and losers.

Winners gain at losers expense.

Conservative 'investors' leaving money in FDs will also lose to inflation in the long run.

Is doesnt matter is property, gold, bitcoins, klse, forex etc.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 13 2022, 06:41 AM

Property is for long term

Some people are conservative minded who believe that at least worst case scenario they still have a roof over their head, assuming loans paid off etc.

and if hold on long enough if cash strapped, when they sell off usually can cover loan AND still have cash leftover (if property value didn't depreciate).

It's like people who die² only 'invest' in FDs, EPF, SSPN, ASB

might not be best or optimal to grow wealth but they'd rather be safe than sorry, which is fair if they know what they're doing

a decent property is still decent wealth/asset preservation for long term, provided take into account maintenance costs and loan costs 😂

This is if all variables remain the same, what if the country becomes a Lebanon or an Egypt. It’s not out of the realm of impossibility is my point where it’s headed.

This is where you calculate your risk appetite + plans for self + financial situation lor, honestly.

If investment was that easy we'd all be millionaire

Just as no one predicted a Pandemic of the scale we're experiencing now, or a Sheraton move, it's not so easy to say if things will head that way.

The true mastery of investment is, whether you have a backup plan (or several) to cut losses if this truly go to sh*t, so you don't need to worry about "What Ifs".

I'm no investment guru, just another dog on the internet 😂 so for myself for example I buy house not to earn money but for ownstay + secure finances in an illiquid but relatively stable asset. Why and how I invest will not apply to someone with a different risk appetite/different amount of investment capital/, different goal.

To own a property for own stay is not an issue but TS reference is this ....

A person who owns that much property, in my general and biased experience in dealing with people who actually do own that much property, do not actually own that property as an optimal way to earn wealth, but as a status symbol.

Because it takes a lot of starting capital (and/or deliberate obfuscation of financial straits by playing with the system to stretch their credit) to even afford to get 2 or more home loans simultaneously. If it's mostly paid in cash then is just showing off even further lor.

But to answer to TS's concerns, my dua sen is that there are two things that lead to people being so invested (heh) in property investment, and both are happening simultaneously.

One is, as I mentioned, the fact that to own property is a symbol of financial stability, since home loans are a long term debt.

The other is the common conservative thinking of low risk, low effort investing, where people would rather just sit on a property asset and pray it appreciates (especially if they based their evaluation on how earlier generations' purchases have appreciated) rather than having to actively invest elsewhere, or touch things like stocks/ETFs/mutual funds/crypto etc. which requires monitoring of economics, which is common in a developing country like Malaysia.

Combine the two and you get a situation like TS mentioned where so many people would rather buy property both as a way to show off and as a wealth preservation method.

only if PH continues to be government otherwise our fundementals are very strong.

Make some sense but again every person investing strategies are different.

That's why I said need to calculate risk appetite + plans for self + financial situation in the very first paragraph 😂 it's not immediately wrong or bad to invest in property IF you're doing it with a sound strategy AND you have contingency plans for if things go south (no tenants/no Airbnb from travel restrictions/lose job cannot pay loan etc.)

TS's concerns about if our country fails is valid, but at the same time, demands for homes are high for both ownstay and investment, which is NOT being helped by the number of bulus out there touting themselves as self-made millionaires from property investment "which you can also become if you pay me RM5k to attend my special workshop, I'm totally not earning commission from developers and banks by pushing certain project TRUST ME LOOK AT MY PORTFOLIO" and lack of regulation about investment "gurus" like these.

sheep mentality is less of a property problem and more of a symptom of our country as a whole's culture + lack of initiative in nurturing critical thinking and the willingness to criticise authority figures

regulations will not happen when sheep mentality is beneficial to the corrupt oligarchs in power through economics and politics

Don’t disagree that the potential of Malaysia hasn’t been realized but you’re one race riot away from shattering business confidence. Then the prospect of a very expensive immovable asset becomes less attractive.

I’d argue that there’s an overwhelming number of people who do have the identical goal of owning a daisy chain of investment property. Developers wouldn’t be pumping out 1000s of units otherwise.

This is a particular noteable issue of townships/cities with many office skyscrapers, high amount of white collar "migrant" population, perceived higher standard of living, and lack of enforcement on the building of skyscrapers (both office and residential), with local examples being Klang Valley & Penang Island, and overseas would be places like NYC and Hong Kong. "Billionaire's Row" is a notorious example.

Unfortunately this will require enforcement by governments to limit density / height, but when government can benefit from the high amount of tax income per acre of land from building such skyscrapers, it's not exactly in greed's best interests to limit the presence of skyscrapers.

No joke that they’re serious about redevelopment. I was perusing through the KL 2020 plan and all of this redevelopment as far as Balakong, Jinjang etc were being actively encouraged.

To alleviate "city population pressure" supposedly.

In theory, they're not wrong, since there's quite big disparity between the rural vs the city areas in terms of population density.

But whether they develop responsibly, I have serious doubts, as current government prioritize industrialisation and commercialised land over liveability and environmental sustainability.

This post has been edited by DragonReine: Mar 16 2022, 05:18 PM

If the intent is revenue raising via land sales and affordable property prices via crushing oversupply then they’ve done their job.

The problem is the negative wealth effect and the exposure of the major financial institutions to staggering levels of domestic debt.

Lack of regulation on loan approval and property price control sadly, as we can see from all the "100% loan approval" schemes 😅 not exactly entirely a problem caused by high rise, but the absurd ballooning of property prices in 2014 which has yet to be flattened properly, on top of Malaysia's lack of decent living wages

The drastic rises 8 years ago happened globally everywhere due to the low interest rates and the rise of the mainland Chinese middle class with fairly lax capital controls at the time. Can’t entirely blame developers from trying to profiteer. It’s the regulators that have no teeth and opaque goals.

This is the country where ministers happily attribute mass deforestation to "natural disasters" and claim that it's better for tigers to have less trees.

The cronies in charge are doing it for profit not people.

Assuming it is headed the way you foresee, what investments would you suggest the average Joe dabbles in?

That’s financial advice. I think when we look at diversification it’s mainly to reduce concentration risk and it can mean across different asset classes and/or locations as well.

You're not answering my question. I'm not asking why we need to diversify or what diversification means.

You're against people buying multiple properties as an investment or hedge against inflation because the economy outlook is not good. Hence I asked what you think those folks should have invested in, if not in properties.

Your usual shares, managed investments etc. if you wanna do more property, then why not overseas or even landed plots in the rural plots.

Just realised a big issue is that many people don’t know how to math or don’t bother to do basic comparative analysis. Very easy to obfuscate numbers and pull the wool over their eyes.