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 Ask me Anything, 10 years in Recruitment (KL & SG)

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TSmimikw
post Feb 22 2022, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(ziling60 @ Feb 21 2022, 02:06 PM)
Why are recruiters ghosting on job applicants? Like is giving an update or replying an email so difficult?
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I'm a strong believer in providing closure to candidates. Even on my busiest weeks, I will make sure I reject them on our ATS (we use Greenhouse) every Friday evening so they can get closure and move on. For some that ghost candidates, maybe their companies do not have a ATS system and they do everything manually so they simply do not have time or just plain laziness.

TSmimikw
post Feb 22 2022, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(2387581 @ Feb 21 2022, 03:38 AM)
Possible for a non-IT person to pivot into IT positions without technical knowledge - in MY/SG? If yes, how?

Is your job on a fixed fee-basis or depends on how much less you managed to place someone below the budget? Or is your fee is at a % of candidate's accepted salary?
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First question; it's possible but not directly to a IT role, most will transition to a MIS/Data Analytics kind of role first before pivoting further to more Technical roles. I understand most of them will take simple coding classes to transition into full software engineering. Some grey roles are like Data Analyst, Business Analyst, Sales Operations.

Q2
It depends!

For a Recruitment agency, it is a % of the candidate's annual salary. Big firms like Robert Walters, Michael Page charges 20-25% of the candidates annual salary, out of which the Consultant takes a 10% cut on top of a pretty good monthly base (RM4.5K-10K) . Smaller recruiting agencies charges clients anything from 8% - 18%, out of which 30-50% goes to the Consultant as commission however small agencies tend to pay low base salaries (RM3K -5K).

For in house recruiters from clients (IBM, Accenture, Nestle, Mondelez etc), they get a fixed monthly salary (anything from RM3K to RM20K) and the usual annual bonus just like everyone else (so they're less aggressive compared to agency recruiters as they're not incentivised to close candidates monthly).

Absolutely no incentive for the recruiter to low ball you of course but most of the time, they have to work within a budget.

I've moved from an agency (7 years to an in-house role now, 3years and counting)

This post has been edited by mimikw: Feb 22 2022, 09:15 PM
TSmimikw
post Feb 22 2022, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(Myk Hyn @ Feb 22 2022, 05:08 PM)
How do u deal with candidates who don't want to share their current pay?
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As honest as I can. The reason why I need to know is so we won't waste each other's time and in order for me to manage (my clients's) expectation better. Also, I'd want to know if the candidate's legit. Based on 10 years of speaking to candidates, most legit candidates often do not have problem sharing their current pay. Those who refused to share are usually those who are expecting to get an instant jump of 40-100% of their current pay which is totally not doable or those who're unemployed.
TSmimikw
post Feb 22 2022, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(telurhilang @ Feb 21 2022, 10:53 AM)
do you practice die die must ask X months payslip from candidate before give offer?
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Sorry yes, it's company policy. I can't act based on trust alone, not in this current world smile.gif

you have no idea how many inconsistencies I've come across over the years from what they claim vs what's on paper.

This post has been edited by mimikw: Feb 22 2022, 09:24 PM
TSmimikw
post Feb 22 2022, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(telurhilang @ Feb 21 2022, 12:23 PM)
Number 1 problem with company battling attrition. They want to copy FAANG but only the easy part.
Do you know where else employees can get free meals? Free coffee? Work in a coal mine. It is not a FAANG culture but just perks.
They do this because they already maxed out on the monetary-based compensation part.

When you mention, most employees left not for better salary but culture. Are you sure about this? Can pay inequity (against internal and market) be the problematic culture here?
When is the last time your company perform a pay equity audit?
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I'm sorry I could be wrong. 25% of people leave for more money and 75% is a combination of everything else (progression, benefits, learning opportunities, flexibility, international opportunities which are all related to culture in a way). My company does pay top of range so the most common reason for leaving I hear (during exit interviews) > culture & work life balance. Or maybe it takes alot to admit you're simply leaving for more money.

Free food etc stems from the culture itself to remind employees that the company got their back. It's nice to know that your company is invested in your well-being work aside. Do you think these perks come cheap? Why don't they give employees the monetary value on top of their base salary instead? Simply because people are generally more appreciative of little touches like this vs just cold cash and word of mouth has a strong ripple effect.

Pay audit - We just did! they've decided a company wide salary adjustment due to the soaring inflation.
TSmimikw
post Feb 22 2022, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(amboi_asamboi @ Feb 22 2022, 12:56 AM)
7000 candidates, placed more than 600 of them in jobs

Does it mean your screening criteria is 10%, or only 10% are good enough to fit into the job?
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It's an estimation - I speak to an average of 15-20 candidates a week over the last 10 years minus some holidays. In agency I close about 50 roles a year, internal I do 70 a year so about there. I move 50% of the candidates I spoke with into the funnel so about 3500, of which 600 got hired. Only 17% made it through the funnel, not the best stats for a recruiter honestly lol tho I have much better success rate internally. A lot of wild goose chases during my agency days.
UserU
post Feb 22 2022, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 22 2022, 09:03 PM)
This....

Candidates that assume they got the job from the first screen. Sometimes recruiters reach out to offer candidate a job opportunity; an open invitation to apply for the role or it could be an exploratory call to share more about the company but it doesn't mean you're hired (yet).
Common questions are " Who will report to me WHEN I join?" "Can I have a free parking WHEN I join" "I want a sign on bonus because..."

not uncommon at all  biggrin.gif
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The sense of entitlement, oh my laugh.gif


ziling60
post Feb 22 2022, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 22 2022, 09:06 PM)
I'm a strong believer in providing closure to candidates. Even on my busiest weeks, I will make sure I reject them on our ATS (we use Greenhouse) every Friday evening so they can get closure and move on. For some that ghost candidates, maybe their companies do not have a ATS system and they do everything manually so they simply do not have time or just plain laziness.
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It wasnt even through a job application. They got the contacts from database and spoke abt a different job opportunities and then became not reachable. There was no job application to begin with and for the auto rejection email to come through, if u get what i mean?
noobinvestor P
post Feb 22 2022, 11:22 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 18 2022, 07:00 PM)

2. I can safely tell you 90% of the time, your offer is based on your current salary + a minor increment and NOT the budget. There's only a handful instances in my career where a candidate is on 5K and the budget is 9-12K so the client offer 9K. Almost never happens because all companies have a dedicated compensation and benefit team and the recommended increment is always 10-20% (Malaysia is 15%). They will not do outliers like 40% unless this is a highly niche & critical role (a rubber R&D specialist with experience in nitrile glove). As far as I understand, it is illegal to ask for payslips and their current salary in US so many pay based on expected salary and if the candidate is able to demonstrate all the skills required say, for a L5 SWE role, his offer will fall into the L5 band..unfortunately, this is not practiced in both Malaysia and Singapore.  To your question, we do not tend to pay expected as well but try to bridge the gap between our offer and your expectation.

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What would be the best strategy if someone is relatively underpaid within their industry?
Looking at the statement, only people who aren't underpaid will qualify and will accept the job.

If a recruiter finds someone who is qualified by years of experience and professional certs, but just because he/she is underpaid relative to others, recruiter give max 20% of increment
Even if they accept this job theyl probably jump soon to match market rate.


TSmimikw
post Feb 23 2022, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(ziling60 @ Feb 22 2022, 11:55 PM)
It wasnt even through a job application. They got the contacts from database and spoke abt a different job opportunities and then became not reachable. There was no job application to begin with and for the auto rejection email to come through, if u get what i mean?
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The scenario sounds really familiar - is this an agency recruiter?
Most agencies have big databases and work with a number of clients; when they get a new role they contact their top 10 candidates in mind/from the database, they pitch the role to them and sends their CVs to the clients, should the client reject these profiles, some recruiter couldn't be bothered to end the loop by providing an update to the candidate. This is not the worst yet; I know explicitly a handful of agency recruiters who share CVs to clients without the consent/first speaking to the candidates. If the client reject, the candidates wouldn't know anything anyway; the recruiter will only call the candidate and start pitching the role if they client wants to meet for an interview. PDPA is not a big thing in Malaysia so many opt for short cuts to make commission, should this happens in Europe, the recruiter can be fired.

For your case, if this is an agency recruiter > work with another agency or give feedback hoping they'll improve

This post has been edited by mimikw: Feb 23 2022, 09:02 AM
TSmimikw
post Feb 23 2022, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(noobinvestor @ Feb 23 2022, 12:22 AM)
What would be the best strategy if someone is relatively underpaid within their industry?
Looking at the statement, only people who aren't underpaid will qualify and will accept the job.

If a recruiter finds someone who is qualified by years of experience and professional certs, but just because he/she is underpaid relative to others, recruiter give max 20% of increment
Even if they accept this job theyl  probably jump soon to match market rate.
*
Unfortunately yes. The market is hot and competitive so it's pretty rare to see underpaid employees but sometimes these candidates are GOLD.
Negotiation is key - while most of the time, it's 20% max, I'd suggest you provide data to justify the steeper hike (Company leaned on higher bonus, lower base? Took a pay cut before to join start up? Company isn't doing well so did not get any increment for 2-3 years? You haven't moved for 5 years? Provide any new training/learning certifications to justify why you should be raised to a new bar. Be kind to the recruiter/HR person because they're your gate keeper to get the additional layer of approvals for you > global C&B team, HRD. Usually we are authorised to offer up to a certain band (anything beyond that will need additional approvals from global).

Should all these fail, don't give up just yet - ask for a sign on bonus or a pay raise upon confirmation. Never accept the offer the first time it's delivered to you (a smart recruiter will always allow room for negotiation). Jual mahal, ask for time to sit on it. Don't let them trick you " If you don't take this by tomorrow, the deal is off the table" - it's a LIE. No way they want to start the search all over again unless they have a strong second after you.

One final tip that works 90% of the time, have a competing offer/or simply let them know you're at final stage with 3 other companies - We freak out when candidates have multiple offers and most of the time, we will match whatever you have in the market (without bother checking your other offer letter).

This post has been edited by mimikw: Feb 23 2022, 09:06 AM
telurhilang
post Feb 23 2022, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 22 2022, 09:24 PM)
Sorry yes, it's company policy. I can't act based on trust alone, not in this current world smile.gif

you have no idea how many inconsistencies I've come across over the years from what they claim vs what's on paper.
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if candidate never reveal their current compensation package, there is nothing to claim or compare no? expected salary alone should be sufficient. can match or cannot match.

else underpaid candidate like someone question in this thread can have difficult time. anyway, do you have opening for current company for it/tech role? 😅
TSmimikw
post Feb 23 2022, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(telurhilang @ Feb 23 2022, 02:13 PM)
if candidate never reveal their current compensation package, there is nothing to claim or compare no? expected salary alone should be sufficient. can match or cannot match.

else underpaid candidate like someone question in this thread can have difficult time. anyway, do you have opening for current company for it/tech role? 😅
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No blanket answer to this honestly. Imagine the havoc if everyone does that. How do corporates ensure proper governance and accountability?
Recruiters can't have the power to offer anything the candidate wants.

I can provide an example of a company that try to mitigate bias and avoid underpaying candidates.

Meta -
For any roles Meta hire into, all interviewers do not have visibility to the candidate's current package. Candidates will be sent for screening and after the loop interview, Recruiter will organise a debrief where the interviewers will level the candidate based on interview feedback collectively.
If they find candidate to be within Level 4 for example, recruiter will obtain candidate's current salary information and make offers based on a range for Level 4 for that job family in that particular country. If the candidate's current is way below the range, the offer will still be the MIN of the range even if that means a 50% increase for him. If the candidate's salary is over the range, the recruiter will also offer the candidate the MAX of the range which could mean a potential cut for the candidate (this mean the candidate is overpaid for his experience. If the candidate's current is at the median of the range, they will offer a nice 15% increment. Fair?

This post has been edited by mimikw: Feb 23 2022, 04:29 PM
noobinvestor P
post Feb 23 2022, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 23 2022, 08:58 AM)
Unfortunately yes. The market is hot and competitive so it's pretty rare to see underpaid employees but sometimes these candidates are GOLD.
Negotiation is key - while most of the time, it's 20% max, I'd suggest you provide data to justify the steeper hike (Company leaned on higher bonus, lower base? Took a pay cut before to join start up? Company isn't doing well so did not get any increment for 2-3 years? You haven't moved for 5 years? Provide any new training/learning certifications to justify why you should be raised to a new bar. Be kind to the recruiter/HR person because they're your gate keeper to get the additional layer of approvals for you > global C&B team, HRD. Usually we are authorised to offer up to a certain band (anything beyond that will need additional approvals from global).

Should all these fail, don't give up just yet - ask for a sign on bonus or a pay raise upon confirmation. Never accept the offer the first time it's delivered to you (a smart recruiter will always allow room for negotiation). Jual mahal, ask for time to sit on it. Don't let them trick you " If you don't take this by tomorrow, the deal is off the table" - it's a LIE. No way they want to start the search all over again unless they have a strong second after you.

One final tip that works 90% of the time, have a competing offer/or simply let them know you're at final stage with 3 other companies - We freak out when candidates have multiple offers and most of the time, we will match whatever you have in the market (without bother checking your other offer letter).
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I have to say this a well constructed feedback. Usually If I ask similar questions like this to friends in HR, theyl always give me one sided view statement.

Appreciate it thanks!
Perspective2021
post Feb 23 2022, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 17 2022, 10:39 PM)
I'm in between jobs so thought of doing something fun (and hopefully helpful for the job seekers community).

A little bit about myself:

I have 10 years experience in Recruitment (7 years in a top recruitment firm in Malaysia and 3 years as an internal recruiter in a Tech company). In my career, I've been promoted 5 times and went from a Junior Recruitment Consultant to where I am now as a Recruiting Manager. I absolutely miss my agency days where I was raking $$$ from making placements across Malaysia. Took a (indirect) cut to do internal recruitment in hope to be more involved in recruiting ops and strategy and have never looked back since.

I've spoken to approximately 7000 candidates, placed more than 600 of them in jobs, met with at least 1000 hiring managers throughout my career in Malaysia and Singapore. Having seen the variance between offers, experiences and screening through countless of CVs, I hope I'll be able to answer any questions you may have smile.gif

I've recruited for a wide range of roles including Finance, Sales & Marketing, Technology (currently) and Strategy related positions. I spend every week talking to candidates, understanding the needs and wants of different hiring managers and companies, prepping candidates to ace interviews and negotiating the best possible offers for them so ask away!

smile.gif
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Hi, do you know about Human Resources Development Fund (HRDF)?
Can employee request to utilize the fund for training purpose?
telurhilang
post Feb 23 2022, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 23 2022, 04:27 PM)
No blanket answer to this honestly. Imagine the havoc if everyone does that. How do corporates ensure proper governance and accountability?
Recruiters can't have the power to offer anything the candidate wants.

I can provide an example of a company that try to mitigate bias and avoid underpaying candidates.

Meta -
For any roles Meta hire into, all interviewers do not have visibility to the candidate's current package. Candidates will be sent for screening and after the loop interview, Recruiter will organise a debrief where the interviewers will level the candidate based on interview feedback collectively.
If they find candidate to be within Level 4 for example, recruiter will obtain candidate's current salary information and make offers based on a range for Level 4 for that job family in that particular country. If the candidate's current is way below the range, the offer will still be the MIN of the range even if that means a 50% increase for him. If the candidate's salary is over the range, the recruiter will also offer the candidate the MAX of the range which could mean a potential cut for the candidate (this mean the candidate is overpaid for his experience. If the candidate's current is at the median of the range, they will offer a nice 15% increment. Fair?
*
Thanks for the insight. At least now I understand from recruiter perspective.
Anyway UGPM
Mavik
post Feb 24 2022, 07:21 AM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 23 2022, 04:27 PM)
I can provide an example of a company that try to mitigate bias and avoid underpaying candidates.

Meta -
For any roles Meta hire into, all interviewers do not have visibility to the candidate's current package. Candidates will be sent for screening and after the loop interview, Recruiter will organise a debrief where the interviewers will level the candidate based on interview feedback collectively.
If they find candidate to be within Level 4 for example, recruiter will obtain candidate's current salary information and make offers based on a range for Level 4 for that job family in that particular country. If the candidate's current is way below the range, the offer will still be the MIN of the range even if that means a 50% increase for him. If the candidate's salary is over the range, the recruiter will also offer the candidate the MAX of the range which could mean a potential cut for the candidate (this mean the candidate is overpaid for his experience. If the candidate's current is at the median of the range, they will offer a nice 15% increment. Fair?
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Good sharing, I can definitely say I benefitted from something similar like this as well. thumbsup.gif
aaronchoo
post Feb 24 2022, 09:13 AM

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Hey man, hope I could get some insights from you as well given your experience.

What would your advise be for someone (my wife) who has been a pharmacist for the past 8 years or so (currently now an area manager of a pharmacy franchise) who just hates the profession and would really want to get into a corporate post in another industry, be it consumer products, healthcare, or others?

Would the best way to go about it is to get in touch with as many recruiters as possible? We've tried the usual job submissions in JobStreet and LinkedIn but responses were not really favourable somehow.

Thanks in advance!
Bossku_Johor
post Feb 24 2022, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(mimikw @ Feb 17 2022, 10:39 PM)
I'm in between jobs so thought of doing something fun (and hopefully helpful for the job seekers community).

A little bit about myself:

I have 10 years experience in Recruitment (7 years in a top recruitment firm in Malaysia and 3 years as an internal recruiter in a Tech company). In my career, I've been promoted 5 times and went from a Junior Recruitment Consultant to where I am now as a Recruiting Manager. I absolutely miss my agency days where I was raking $$$ from making placements across Malaysia. Took a (indirect) cut to do internal recruitment in hope to be more involved in recruiting ops and strategy and have never looked back since.

I've spoken to approximately 7000 candidates, placed more than 600 of them in jobs, met with at least 1000 hiring managers throughout my career in Malaysia and Singapore. Having seen the variance between offers, experiences and screening through countless of CVs, I hope I'll be able to answer any questions you may have smile.gif

I've recruited for a wide range of roles including Finance, Sales & Marketing, Technology (currently) and Strategy related positions. I spend every week talking to candidates, understanding the needs and wants of different hiring managers and companies, prepping candidates to ace interviews and negotiating the best possible offers for them so ask away!

smile.gif
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Got vacancy or not??
TSmimikw
post Feb 24 2022, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(aaronchoo @ Feb 24 2022, 10:13 AM)
Hey man, hope I could get some insights from you as well given your experience.

What would your advise be for someone (my wife) who has been a pharmacist for the past 8 years or so (currently now an area manager of a pharmacy franchise) who just hates the profession and would really want to get into a corporate post in another industry, be it consumer products, healthcare, or others?

Would the best way to go about it is to get in touch with as many recruiters as possible? We've tried the usual job submissions in JobStreet and LinkedIn but responses were not really favourable somehow.

Thanks in advance!
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Hello (I am she btw lol)

Probably a good move honestly!
Tip: Ask her to furnish up her CV and message any Recruiter from Hays/Robert Walters/Michael Page/Barrington James that does Healthcare & Lifesciences (Search Consultant/Senior Consultant - Healthcare/ Life Science). Many of the pharmaceutical companies tend to hire ex-pharmacist as Pharmacovigilance Specialist (God I couldn't spell it right - thanks Google) or Medical Affairs Managers, provided she has good inter-personal/communication skills. BJ is a good place to start as they only specialises in Healthcare roles.

I wouldn't go Jobstreet honestly - JS is generally better for lower level positions.

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