check on where the WOT happens. torque spike can be generated by revving the engine with the clutch lifted then dropped immediately where the dyno registers the torque spike. 2 patterns the same as stock just higher, that's normal. if you put more fuel more power. this is for WOT case. torque tends to peak around 3-4k rpm then dwindles down rapidly while hp increases. However for small engines with long stroke, the torque may come earlier. longer stroke engines tend to have higher torque lower hp. while shorter strokes high hp but low torque.

ps. don't worry too much. NA je. else you get the dyno shop to help you hear for knocks hehe.

wow a new idea. i never learn this way retard function

Hahhaha i was like emmmmm.... well i can get ECU reading on timing retard advance, so its a good measure to tell what the ecu is instructing to the engine - recently just found out 2000 rpm on 4th spends less fuel than 1600+ rpm in 5th. Was like fuu..... Pretty sure the KKT further adds timing kot just sked if its tipu fuel line is affecting the fuel flow sensor.

My guess is new maibi got wideband sensor after seeing ur bideo. I checked the reading and mine simply jumps around the 0 and 1v a lot, wires on the sensor also tak cukup. I also cannot get engine load reading, so either its blocked ke or is there some reason it might not actually be using that calculation?

This post has been edited by Dezs: Feb 17 2022, 12:23 PM

mine install elm327 mini the cheapest one below 25 bux.
value from obd is call OXYGEN SENSOR 1 WIDE RANGE EQUIVALENT RATIO (have two selection jadi i include both)

app use https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?....ovz.carscanner
or this fancy https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mda.carbit

the list out :
oxygen2 voltage (V)
oxygen2 short term fuel trim
oxygen1 wide range ratio
oxygen1 wide range volt (V)
oxygen1 wide range mili-ampere (mA)
oxygen1 wide range ratio
===============================
calculated enjin load
absolute load value
timing advance

Ya same reader la haha... unker make check with the developer ady he say mmg tarak for old model. I guess the new one got more stuff. Setting up for my model also was like haram jadah siap needed to buy the paid version lagi.

sad2. 3szve is a feel good enjin.
good luck to find d AFR later on

== double dupe ==

This post has been edited by ktek: Feb 17 2022, 02:34 PM

Welp brought he fella out for some tests today - on anything less than WOT there is nothing happening much BUT.. at WOT, unker did sense something a bit diff on the engine esp at the target AFR that was predicted high - 5000-5500 or 6000 rpm.

The problem is unker tin milo hamster wheel is already going crazy at those speeds by default, but this time in addition to the usual hamster and slightly more vibration (assuming from more tune more powa, cause this is felt across the range, but at mid 3-4k rpm, this change actually feels good, engine is smoother despite the extra powa):
- there is a little bit of something that sounds a bit sparkly (best way to describe the sound, a little faint, but certain its theere, cause i recreated it twice), engine power seems to continue fine, but
- some of that is certainly going to the drivetrain too, so it must be happening in the combustion/pistons.
- Can't really break down the change in the pedal feel, but it certainly changes the vibration note, it accompanies the "sound" when it occurs.

Importante question: Is my combustion chamber too hot and going kamikaze soon or this is something else? Or is it indicator of oncoming knock? Cause if knock occurs, power loss/raging hamster engine follows too right?

Moving up to 6k rpm the effect tapers off a little and then engine redline, after the gear up, the engine seems to continue normally. This was not present in unkers first WOT test in the morning after the tune. The only change/possible factors I can think off:
- Morning air much cooler - 30+ intake vs 45+ intake temps afternoon
- Morning test was not truly WOT, had some mat in the way limiting it at 96-98% throttle. Afternoon one was 100%

Unker wonder how the tuner would set the cells for variable/transient engine loads/throttle that are not WOT? Is it a smoothed out adjustment between WOT timing and AFR pulled on dyno?

This post has been edited by Dezs: Feb 19 2022, 06:22 PM

got metal expanding noise?

Doesnt sound like metal to metal or maybe just "before" metal to metal? It appears just as the engine crosses 5000-6000rpm..

Just a quick update... doesn't occur in 1st (maybe 1st just doesnt experience as much load), but 2nd yes this afternoon.

Tried to check just now at night too... nothing in 1st or 2nd did 3 runs all normal. Only diff is ambient temp kot.

Overheating would carry on over the cycles kan.. i.e. there would be sound/friction even after gear change or RPM drop.

This post has been edited by Dezs: Feb 19 2022, 10:23 PM

careful hamster wheeling falling off later.
Anyway, any "extra" sound to me is a bad thing. The smoother the engine the less sound it should be there. Unless its VTECK POWAHHH (just kidding lol).

Btw this info I got from my tuners la, not sure is correct or not.
There will be a certain percentage signal lost or rather, signals that are too late to be modified by the piggyback. He thinks its around 30% for emanage blue and kkt piggyback.
Then maxxecu mini is just slightly better than the piggyback. Engine not as smooth to get as the more expensive standalone rather. Also, being a standalone, it of course won't have same problem as piggyback ecu.
Anyway he is comparing the maxxecu mini with haltech standalone ecu.

So, I would still like to see a safe AFR since have all these uncertainties.

the biggest problem with piggyback is, native ECU will still do adaptation. even when you've tuned nice nice over time some ecu will attempt to do their own correction. risk of lari map after 1 week.

Like dafuq? suka2 drop packet meh? Ingatkan the piggyback intercepts the wires going between ignition, fuel must go through it right? So if the processor sudah overload then it just kasi bypass? I did check the wiring la, without the bypass plug to connect the wires, ignition tak sampai engine, and prob fuel feed too and ecu went rage.

So what happens then? Engine get one set instruction from boss wife normally then tiba2 boss masuk and the work fakkap? Welp, kena tunggu masa pigi tarik round 2 bah - so far engine sound overall did not increase apart from that sparkly signature la. Going to compare against stock ecu map using the bypass later this week.

Hmm prob depends on how the thing is wired up? The more unker find out about my engine, the more simplistic its mechanism seems to be, prob cause is tin milo - atm i am logging reads on the timing advance (heck i actually cant tell if its VVT timing adv or ignition kek, cause no other timing reads coming out of obd) seems to be responding as per usual, fuel/AFR wise it does seem to still correspond to the map captured on the dyno.

I am spending more fuel accelerating now at low revs (but nett rev time prob less with same coasting), the mid revs actually compensates since it supposedly produces more hamsters for similar AFR. Closed loop is still active based on the readings too, so I'm not sure how piggyback manipulates that mode, or it just gives the same amount of fuel/advance based on the command issued vs throttle? Unker am curious too the ECU so easy to cheat it dunno its being taken for a ride meh? won't the engine sensors/fuel tell a diff story then cause him to rage? Or maybe my "improved" consumption is actually due to the ECU dunno the fuel rail actually give more fuel than told? Machiam what they say those haram jadah OBD chips do lel.

This post has been edited by Dezs: Feb 20 2022, 09:08 AM

Its not packet loss, rather its unmodified packet. For example at 4000rpm piggyback should modified the data to increase to 5% more fuel than ori. Out of 100 packets, 70% is increase 5% fuel but piggyback overload so 30% is original no increase fuel.

Also its true about original ecu "relearning". Rather original ecu long term fuel trim adjustments are made. Thats why it is recommended you drive according to your style for some time first until the long term fuel trim are stable in your original ecu before you go tune your piggyback. Once stable, the ecu wont adjust the long term fuel trim, it only plays around with the short term fuel trim. If everythg is your car perfect, it will maintain the new tuning longer. This is what i understand la. Because for my tuning on emanage blue, my car came out fine. Powah and most importantly no backfire. After few months got a bit backfire pop pop at my exhaust. Now i believe if i find out what is worn and replace it with another part that is same condition as during my tune, it should be better. Or its just that my tune sucky.
Anyway due to all this, i concluded if wan play, go standalone better.

older gen cars easy to fool, newer ones need algorithm or most cheap piggybacks out there can't do much. We've even did a o2 simulator just to trick the AFR to the ECU. wire the piggyback to send fake signal (what the tuner shop told me) failed also, a decade ago. The biggest problem with modern engine is the crank sensor and knock sensor. the ecu is smart enough the sense and play around. Which is why alot of people are moving to Remap or Standalone. Less hassle pure tuning configuration.

Piggyback cannot manipulate the o2 sensor too much. will send the ecu to 02 sensor error limp mode. or choke your engine. On standard over time your AFR will run rich at lower rev based on my experience. If you're serious about performance don't waste too much time on piggyback. straight go install standalone or find a tuner whom can custom tune your engine via remap.

Stock generally runs at 12.5 on open loop.
13.0+/- is where full power can be made. Albeit each engine is different.
Lower RPM or no load, higher than 14 is safe.

Even badly strapped down, can skewer the reading.
Even on tin milo, you don't strap it down correctly, you can get bad reading.

If combustion chamber is too hot, you should feel pre-ignition.

True and false(?)
Some tuner, should know how to clamp the signal to stop it from adaptation.
Not all piggyback works nicely with stock ECU.
So, hardware and tuner need to be right.

- Seems what most sources say, just that yeah this guy seemed to bring it all the way to 15+ like dafuq. I hardly WOT now la cause its also harsh on the 1st gear, so will wait until i reach the next dyno pull.
- I guess 2 readings on the same strap should still apply for that instance i guess? kek
- What should pre-ignition feel like? Roughness? loss of power? Maybe the first ever so much slightly, but loss of power was not prevalent. It should get worse as rpms/cycles increase i assume?

I guess I should start charting the fuel trim readings instead but they have been -ve for a long time even before the tune. I'm guessing its my cheapass driving style, but it should determine if the ECU is actively trying to counter the low RPM enrichment by the piggyback. Then again, I still don't positively know how to tell exactly when the ECU decides to go open loop which should leave the piggy back in proper control no (does it still use trim here)? The other thing would be those half/transient load situations how the piggyback handles it.

As for the features I guess now i know why the tuner was insistent on using the compact32 instead of tiny apart from the larger map table and supposedly faster processor, but it seems he did talk about clamping when i ask about sensors going wild, and even KKT tiny has it (tho would'nt this be for boosted engines kot?) I assume it clamps both ways? i.e. very lean vs very rich interceptions?

Time to figure out exactly how smart is my hamsterwheel - Prob need to log a run with timing advance readings on WOT. So far it responds accurately, retard on engine braking, advance on acc as expected, wanna see if it would retard on WOT to see if knock protection still exist. I'd assume OBD readings come direct from ECU polling and not packet sniffing sensors off the bus right? If so I can safely assume the obd reader is as per what the ecu knows, honestly very few readings either simple thing or just ham kah chan app development.. kek.

This post has been edited by Dezs: Feb 21 2022, 10:28 AM

ayam pasang KKT only for playing piak piak piak , but i believe we need to maintain tekan driving style since original ECU adapt with our driving pattern , most tuner are just tune using CAN copy and paste ,best is change to standalone .

VVT-I open at 4k rpm , is that real ?