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Investment New Pudu LRT project?

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Cavatzu
post Jul 24 2022, 01:21 PM

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It’s still 2.2k units on 3 acres.

The land development agreement today, will see a condominium development on Lot 151, a 1.21 hectare land previously owned by the RAC, which TSLaw Land acquired for RM182.6 million, under its subsidiary, LTS Skyline Sdn Bhd.

PSF is ~ 1400 psf which was in line with the earliest announcement of Skyline. To halve the psf, they’ve had to double the number of units it looks like.

Unrelated but a side comparison, Sunway Belfield’s land price was around ~830 psf for around the same price but 4.5 acres of land and freehold.

TLDR; Skyline is extremely dense and the developer has done very well actually to be able to deliver this product at the current sales price.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Jul 24 2022, 02:09 PM
Cavatzu
post Jul 25 2022, 06:00 PM

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Having office towers is one thing. Getting it occupied is another. The number of overhang commercial space is probably just as bad as the residential component.

Bangsar South has the MSC status going for it. It will take a while to even fill out the premier TRX.
Cavatzu
post Jul 25 2022, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Jul 25 2022, 07:50 PM)
Actually i noticed many corporates have asked their staff to return to office to work.

Some opted for 3 days work at office and 2 days work fr home.

In other words there is now demand for office space.
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Of course they are. But do you still need the same quantity of space if everyone is hot-desking and some functions can just work from home.

QUOTE(wotpian @ Jul 25 2022, 07:52 PM)
Company & office just play apart  of the occupancy rate.

118 merdeka mostly state-run company.
TRX financial related, stocks, investment company & banks mostly.
BBCC the Stride strata office. Start-up or Unicorn company, freelance, agents.
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Ok huat la if you say so. From a balance sheet perspective, it just doesn’t make sense for a business to overcapitalise at the moment and pay a premium for swanky new offices unless they are more image-based. Even then, there are many perfectly fine existing vacant buildings.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Jul 25 2022, 08:12 PM
Cavatzu
post Jul 26 2022, 08:02 AM

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QUOTE(Hermes Aspiration @ Jul 26 2022, 01:38 AM)
I think he brought up the question why only is this project in Pudu area is related to iconic building or development in TRX or PNB 118, which is not in Pudu.
Yes, having next to LRT station is one of the selling point but that's it.

Both iconic developments mentioned might be promising plenty of jobs but we need to see that's until what extent as both have tough time to complete it's current infrastructure, let alone the struggles to bring in anchor tenants before jobs were created.

I hope it can do well, but those office people may not just have Skyline Pudu to choose from and these mid to top executives have various developments to slowly picking up. They may even have luxury of units from The Core & TRX Residences (3k units) floating in the future, and that's beside the next range of middle high end Sunway Belfield, BBCC's SWNK, Sunway Velocity and it's stretch of min few thousand units.

Those malls workers maybe have such budget but these are also those people driving City, MyVi, motorbikes or taking LRT from 10 stations away too.
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I think you summed up a very common beginner investor sentiment. People with vested interest have their blinkers on and for sure people will rent my unit because I bought it and omit all other competition as well as fail to be objective about any weaknesses.

Pudu is not exactly a nice area to live in. Yes it’s convenient but it has a long history of being a chaotic vice den. That doesn’t go away overnight. If anything, this is ideal for Airbnb property if it’s allowed. Good for tourists or local travellers who want budgetish accomodation in the city.

The Kampung Attap and Cheras properties have been ignored when arguably they offer a better living and less chaotic environment.
Cavatzu
post Jul 26 2022, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(SPHead @ Jul 26 2022, 01:11 PM)
Any tourist attraction within walking distance here? Majestic not doing well and those budget hotels right in front this project (same row with sek yun) close for so many months till now since mco. Even before kfc been there so many years also beh tahan wind up, whats the businees is doing from that row shoplot right now? That lure tourist or commercial in? Serving what type and category of customers selling wat service and goods? Have a check out and walk through.
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I suppose my view point on tourists was from the viewpoint of local foodies who wanna go makan in ICC etc as well as how hot Robertson used to be. So if you what you say is true then even the tourism market here tak laku except for “sexy time.” Have to see if units near Petaling Street take off or not.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Jul 26 2022, 02:01 PM
Cavatzu
post Jul 26 2022, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(wotpian @ Jul 26 2022, 02:07 PM)
Why can't, is this not pudu skyline thread?
A direct lrt access and able to reach 118 Towers directly by only 2 Stations away, no need walk pass the long dark alley or long roadside. not good enough for selling point?

Curious to know can m-city and Ampang arte said by sphead got this kind of connectivity? Not even Continew at pudu/Jalan yew got such connectivity.

How much the Core & TRX residence selling?
How much bbcc's swnk selling?

Are there only target base level of mall workers? Those kind of workers you said mont kiara, Damansara, bangsar don't have? Only work in pudu? There are still shop managers, management lvl, supervisors, regional or state supervisor, shop owners. Still got many others office workers. Even can't rent whole unit due to budget issue, can rent as room or share rent. Of coz at the end their choice to choose which fit their budgets, convenient and needs most.
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Point taken. Yes between BBCC and the 118 mall, there would be a large worker inflow. BBCC in particular is being represented by a lot of mid level Japanese expats.

Regardless time is needed for everything to settle. So in 3-4 years when the building is complete then it should be as you state.

Cavatzu
post Jul 27 2022, 08:31 AM

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So many countries used to hate on the Mainland tourists but now realise how powerful their spending and consumption volume is.

They are sorely missed and it will be a few months yet maybe longer before their borders open. The revenge spending will be noteworthy.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Jul 27 2022, 08:32 AM
Cavatzu
post Jul 27 2022, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Jul 27 2022, 03:13 PM)
Property valuation very much depends on the rental yield. If u capitalise the net yearly rental yield over the market rental return, u will derive the valuation of the property.

For eg net annual rent is rm1800 (after lessing service charge/sinking fund/assesment). net annual rent is rm21,600. If market return in the area is abt 5%, then the market valuation of the unit will be rm21600/0.05 = rm432k

Valuers will also cross check against the latest sale price of nearby similar units to do a comparison method as well.
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That being the case there’s so many units out there which barely validate their sales price. I think the benchmark now is around 3-4% but still many don’t even hit that mark.
Cavatzu
post Jul 28 2022, 06:42 AM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Jul 27 2022, 03:57 PM)
The higher the rental yield the lower the property value is. The lower the rental yield, the higher the property value.

This explains why freehold landed property has such low rental yield.
Because landed property is typically very expensive.
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I think there’s a misnomer here. Market valuation vs developer sales price is two different things.

Firstly, I’d take landed out of the equation and just use high rise as their value rises based on scarcity. Some landed in good in demand areas have powerful rental ability too.

Market value of a property does in fact take into account the rental of a place and prices it accordingly in the subsales and auction market. Your typical MK or DPC property are examples of high priced property that have their rental validated most of the time. Of course there will always be outliers.

QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Jul 27 2022, 04:43 PM)
In other words the rental yield has an inverse relationship with the property price.
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This is only true based on the price you paid that’s why we are saying that for many new projects the developer premium pretty much renders it unprofitable.

Someone remarked that Miller Square OKR with ~ 850 psf purchase price and a rental of 2.2k is being valued at 500k which is around 30% less than purchase price.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Jul 28 2022, 06:43 AM
Cavatzu
post Jul 28 2022, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Jul 28 2022, 10:26 AM)
Valuers will also do the comparison method to derive the market valuation beside the income method (derived from rental rates).

I noticed the comparison method is largely used here as its arguably the simplest valuation technique
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I think the issue is if you’re the first on the block. Eg the first high rise development in an industrial or forest reserve etc where they may base psf on the closest residential areas which may be quite a few kms away thereby setting a low market valuation. This is true if they are tightening process internally for banks.

Traditionally, the lenders just accept whatever price was set by the developer but that’s not seen as best practice globally so they might be putting on a bit of a show for compliance sake.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Jul 28 2022, 11:09 AM
Cavatzu
post Jul 28 2022, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(wotpian @ Jul 28 2022, 01:09 PM)
Freehold lands location most of the time are less favorable than leasehold lands. Means the land not strategic for govt to claim back to use for future development.

Leasehold land most of the time at the really strategic location, hence it can rent out higher rate than fh. But some could be due to land geography related issue which the land can't be FH.

Of coz... it's not always absolute sometime got exception case.
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It’s not helpful to make sweeping generalisations. KV is not short of land and we are building at Hong Kong level density. It’s the new land releases being sold now on leasehold criteria that are an anomaly. There’s still older land that are still freehold or you have the chance of redevelopment.

Leasehold doesn’t mean it’s necessarily good or that developers will bend backwards to make it attractive. Have an objective mind and evaluate a project on its own merits. If anything it’s a governing body who is trying to raise cash and companies trying to land bank.
Cavatzu
post Jul 31 2022, 07:05 AM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Jul 30 2022, 11:12 PM)
If we compare Robertson with skyline, which one enjoys a better location?
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Robertson. It’s still closer to the hotspots of BB and 118.

Skyline is TOD but is it truly necessary when you’re already in town. The surroundings here are still dodgy as heck.
Cavatzu
post Jul 31 2022, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(wotpian @ Jul 31 2022, 03:15 PM)
Currently yes,

But after plaza rakyat put in the puzzle. That will be within 500m only or less.
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Is it still being constructed or delayed now? Funding from Mainland developers is a real issue now. I suspect this won’t materialise anytime soon.
Cavatzu
post Aug 3 2022, 05:40 AM

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QUOTE(wotpian @ Aug 2 2022, 10:57 PM)
Checked with HW human resources before.

They told us their employees got standard. They prefer take 1 small unit for 1 pp stay or 2 rooms unit share with another colleg means 2pp. Maximum go up to 3 rooms for 3pp but most of them don't really like it. 4 rooms not even in their prefer list, unless whole family stay.

This is why studio, 1 room or 2 rooms are so popular in the city.

If more than 3 rooms or above usually are bangala standard.
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So co-living isn’t for sexy singles but rather the mass foreign talent?
Cavatzu
post Aug 3 2022, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(wotpian @ Aug 3 2022, 12:22 PM)
This was what their company HR convey to us. They won't put 3 rooms or above in their shortlisted list for their company staffs to choose. Their definition of too zhap if a unit share by 3pp or above.

Unless special request like family stay usually for high position staff, but they will only pick the high-end place like dua residency or Aria.
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Realistically for normal people, 2 bedder with each having their own bathroom is the sweet spot for sharing.

So you mean this is the HR criteria when they are subsidising expat’s rental?
Cavatzu
post Aug 10 2022, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Aug 10 2022, 02:50 PM)
No investors here highlight their concern about the super high density of this project?

2214 units on a 3 acre leasehold land.

Even UOA can't rival this density.
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I bleated this out repeatedly. We have never seen density like this. They responded by including the LRT land into the mix and doubled the acreage so the numbers don’t look as bad. “The development is on 3 acres of a 6+ acre plot.” Very clever wording.

If people don’t want to take heed, it’s their problem.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Aug 10 2022, 05:40 PM
Cavatzu
post Aug 10 2022, 06:43 PM

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Unfortunately the land cost was quite high. If developer had done regular style density it would be like 1400 psf to break even.

Overall kudos to them it doesn’t look too cramped the way they’ve presented so far.
Cavatzu
post Aug 10 2022, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(wotpian @ Aug 10 2022, 09:15 PM)
1 acre average 700+ units. Not hitting average 1k units yet.😅

Think... it's a trend for high dense development near public transport... may need 1 or 2 generations for local people to accept it.. Use public transport more.

Look at uem connaught TOD new project also very high density. Surrounding it also many high-dense highrise.
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Well it’s a drastic step up from the theoretical residential maximum of 400 units per acre. Heck even M Vertica is way under this figure. So to have something almost double that figure and not a lot of fuss being kicked up about it seems funny to me unless I’ve missed something.

Singapore does not have anywhere near these levels of density.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Aug 10 2022, 09:24 PM
Cavatzu
post Aug 11 2022, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(Timmy Tan @ Aug 11 2022, 09:32 AM)
M Vertica did not draw that much flak in the beginning. Only when the 5 buildings are up that people actually feel how dense it is and started taking videos and sharing it on social media.

The artist for this development is very smart. They draw the artist impression at an angle that makes the development look not so dense. Even in the promo video, they don't show the whole building from the front.
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M Vertica has almost 3-4X the land too and is still basically acceptable by residential standards. Facilities considered quite generous as they got a lot of space to fill.

Looks like Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) is not a thing in this country. There’s so much overshadowing issues with how tall and dense they’re building.
Cavatzu
post Aug 11 2022, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(hopeful forever @ Aug 11 2022, 03:34 PM)
Thr is another 3 acre piece of land just in front of block A & B facing bandar malaysia.

Potentially can develop another 2000 units of service residences.
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Ah I remember the times where if you said you were building 500 units or so on 3 acres people would be so pantang. Now it’s quadruple the figure.

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