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 1st Home Renovation Journey, Lets learn together!

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TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:00 PM, updated 5y ago

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Greetings! We have just purchased our 1st home not long ago and it’s a landed home which we intend to make it as our dream home! Since our family only have 3 members (with a corgi) so we don’t really need a really big landed house.

Therefore, after researching several new launches we finally found a landed house that suits our lifestyle and can’t wait to renovate it to how we like and stay there!
Currently the house is still under construction, so we have plenty of time to do planning now, everything is not final. The purpose of my post is to get the professional or experienced people feedback/suggestions.

House Details:
Land Area: 20’ X 60’
Built-Up: 1621 sqft
Rooms: 3
Bathroom: 3

Original Layout:
user posted image

Proposed Layout:
user posted image


Pre-plan

As we are rapidly saving up money for renovation, we have decided to keep our target realistic to our renovation objectives. *we have no idea how much would be the actual cost at this moment [May 2021]

Budget Renovation Cost: RM 80,000

So far, we have yet to decide should we hire Interior Designer, but we have roughly designed our dream layout for our home via a game call Sims 4:
Sims 4 Design Draft

Just for reference, this is the show unit design:
Show Unit Design

Renovation touch points:
1. No renovation for bathroom is needed since it’s a new unit.
2. We decided not to renovate our other 2 bedrooms.
3. We decided not to do any tiling for our yard space, will put artificial grass on top.
4. We would like to focus our renovation on Living area and master bedroom only.
5. We intend to get all the heavy drilling/hacking work done first, for other rooms we can do minor renovation.
With excel worksheet, we have calculated that we will spend around RM 72k for our renovation.

You can download our budget excel worksheet here

Budget touch points:
1. To be really honest, we have no idea what are the current market price, so we only estimate price by comparing IKEA, Shopee, Lazada.
2. Why I put lesser amount on Painting and Wiring is because my family member does this business.
3. We don’t intend to get luxurious branding but intend to get long lasting material. For e.g: Panasonic, LG are well branded for their Aircon and Washing Machine respectively.

Misc touch points:
1. Since we are extending our yard wall, local permit is needed
2. Serves 100-plus or kopi peng to the contractors
3. Take a lot of progression photos
4. Clean up cost need to be considered


Since this is our first house and first renovation process, we would much appreciate any pros here can provide us positive feedback and let us know if we missed out anything important!


Quotation & Finalizing Design
Design Draft made by myself:
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=101699783

This post has been edited by jeffboon97: Aug 14 2021, 12:50 PM
TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:01 PM

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To be continued
TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:01 PM

On my way
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Junior Member
669 posts

Joined: Dec 2012
To be continued
TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 8 2021, 09:29 PM)
PSA on electrical safety since you haven't started anything.

For water heater safety
WH circuit if you are redoing the wiring for it, use 4.0mm² cables per ST spec.
Good cables from Mega Kabel/Caramay/Fajar Cable cost more. But they are "cheng liu" with all the SIRIM legit certification.
There are elcheapo/fake cables at half price I also don't dare to install in customer premises. Safety first.

More importantly each WH circuit (basically each unit) need its own 10mA RCD/RCBO 0.01A (NOT 0.1A).
Check DB box to see if such thing exist.

For further reading [attachmentid=10873321]

Having a 10mA RCD fitted will prevent the likelihood of becoming news material.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/m...e-having-shower
https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...c-shock/1896447
For whole house electrical safety
Per ST (Suruhanjaya Tenaga) regulations - to be fully compliant - you should use a 30mA whole house high sensitivity RCD (0.03A NOT 0.3A) for human life safety.

100mA & 300mA RCDs should only be used in commercial/industrial as they are NOT very useful to protect human life
They are commonly fitted in residential as they are indeed cheap coz less sensitive and they are only good for preventing building from catching fire.


[attachmentid=10873322]

[attachmentid=10873323]
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Thank you so much for the guidance! I'll keep this in mind, my brother is an electrician so I don't want to cheap out on electrical else my brother will nag me if I do!

Also, do you prefer AC or DC Water heat?
Based on my research it seems like DC pump is more long last and quieter, but not as powerful as AC?

TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 8 2021, 09:41 PM)
PSA on your 1F yard extension wall design.

Remember kids can and will climb over anything when you are not watching for a moment.
Pls use ONLY either:
solid wall or VERTICAL elements if you are putting in metal rails.

HORIZONTAL elements have been outlawed in the US, UK for staircase railings and safety barriers.
However this is from a newly VPed high-rise project  icon_question.gif see the danger?

[attachmentid=10873324]
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This design quite trendy in landed yard. I've seen some ID aspiration have this zig zag break design that have gaps in between. I can't believe they built this for high rise omgosh!
TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(joeblow @ May 8 2021, 09:46 PM)
Hi there, replying to your post because I am also in the process of designing my new house (double storey terrace) with VP expected around mid May (may be June now due to MCO3.0) and also because I plan to buy a new corgi or Golden for my new house!  biggrin.gif

I am not sure when the VP for your house is, but I can tell you after recent surveying prices really gone up big! I guess when it comes to house renovation it is pretty price inelastic. Now materials etc in shortage and prices gone up, also people are hungry for a while so they will want their fair share of profit too. I would think next year prices will go up more... So for your RM80k, I think maybe not enough if you intend to engage ID. If you can engage separate contractors at a cheaper price than an ID, my advise is to do it yourself since you pretty much have an idea of what to do. Having ID without the budget might mean your house will be restricted. Unless you need the ID to coordinate activities between the contractors, aka acting as the PM and Quality Assurance Manager.

2. We decided not to renovate our other 2 bedrooms.


I am in the same position as you. 2 to 3 of the rooms will not have anyone staying in. But in the end I decided to go ahead with simple renovations like cabinet, bed, fans and aircon. Reason being lazy to do it later and also the aircon pipes already pre-built. Might as well do it all.

3. We decided not to do any tiling for our yard space, will put artificial grass on top.

Not sure how is your yard at the moment. If your yard has grass on it, it will involve costs to remove them and lay the artificial grass. And good artificial grass that you engage outside vendors to do will not be cheap! You might be surprise simple tiles maybe not much more expensive.

I think things might change after you get your keys eventually, as I mentioned earlier prices really going up. And yes you need to include clean up costs. But why do you need paint when your unit is new? Unless you prefer another colour.

A couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Your kitchen is aluminum or wood? If IKEA I don't think they have aluminum. I think your kitchen budget is almost there, but your hood and hub I think on the lower side.
2. Your ceiling fan only RM180? How come so cheap? The one I am eyeing Panasonic DC with LED around RM700 to RM740. If you always on your fan, better get one with DC motor.
3. May I know who you engaging for your bathroom cabinet? It seems I need to check if my kitchen and wardrobe cabinet suppliers do bathroom one or not. I missed out on this.
4. You might want to consider costs of water filter, not cheap. POE and POU add up can be around 1 to 3k depending on what you choose.
5. Your costs for lightning includes ceiling plaster?

Seems to me some of your items are reasonably priced but some seems on the low side. Anyway good thread and good luck to you. I only ask questions in this forum on some of the thing, but lazy to do what you do! LOL.
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Artificial Grass reply:
Based on the brochure and specification written, the yard will have half cement and half grey tiles.
So if we want to save cost further we have no problem letting it be like that. But we intend to let our corgi run on some grass in the case of rain can't go out. Didn't know the price of the artificial grass, but sometimes I go check on Kaison and MR. DIY doesn't seem super expensive, but surely the quality is not as good as those specialize in doing artificial grass.

1. I am eyeing on Unity Kitchen, so probably is wood since it's a dry kitchen. then under basin I want to put aluminum in case of leaking won't damage the wood. I guess for Hood and Hob and the kitchen cabinet under RM 20000 can settle?
2. Hmm, perhaps I need to raise my fan budget to RM 200- RM 300. I don't mind getting normal KDK. But I am not sure what's the difference between 3 blade or 5 blade?
3. If I intend to go with Unity Kitchen, then most probably ask them to help do Wardrobe also.
4. for Water filter currently my house already have a water purifier which I will transport to the new house hehe!
5. I dont want to do plaster ceiling though, I found there's a easy install downlight like Yeelight. https://www.yeelight.com/en_US/product/luna




TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 8 2021, 09:48 PM)
Most welcome. Good to know you've got someone competent to handle the electrical works.  thumbup.gif
DC pump WH is better than AC. AC pump always noisier than the DC pump.

However if water pressure is good enough (this one really need to bring a hose to test on site) i.e. using just your thumb [fingerprint, not stuffing the thumb inside the hose ] to cover the water flow, try to stop the water, then you may NOT need a pump model.

> If you can stop the water with your thumb = water pressure weak. Get WH pump model.

> If it is virtually impossible to stop the water with your thumb = water pressure good. WH pump optional.
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rclxms.gif rclxms.gif rclxms.gif Thanks for the testing technique!
TSjeffboon97
post May 8 2021, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(joeblow @ May 8 2021, 10:09 PM)
Hmm... make sure your corgi doesn't shit or urinate on the artificial grass, especially good quality one!  biggrin.gif Yes those I see in Jusco also not expensive. But if you want perfect fit then those pieces not big enough.

1. Price range for Kitchen cabinet really depends on the length and top bottom cabinets/material. You see those advertise for less than 10k one, you have to see the real quality of material used before you can decide.
2. According to sales person, 5 blade supposed to have more wind and quieter. Another guy selling 3 blades claim the same. Currently I am using Rubine 3 blades DC motor, very quiet and good. So I still thinking if I should try the Panasonic ones.
4. What about outdoor filter?
5. Your downlight Yeelight seems atas. Even got wifi! lol. You plan to do smart home?
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2. Panasonic ones are always good! I have one at home that run 24/7 because of my corgi
3. Hmm might consider to install but have no idea on this matter yet.
4. Hahah I am a huge fan of Xiaomi, Yeelight is a company under Xiaomi which can be connected via Xiaomi Home App. Currently I have several items that is using Xiaomi Home which has worked very well for me. I wouldn't call it smart home with those expensive panels but smart mobile home!
TSjeffboon97
post May 9 2021, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(kennykck @ May 8 2021, 10:38 PM)
My wet kitchen full height wall tiles cost me RM3-4k alone.

Also you seems like missed out curtain/windows blind for other rooms and house grille.
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shocking.gif May I know does your wall tiles cover the washing area as well? As my sink area couldn't install much wall tiles since there's window there.

I am living in a GnG community thinking should I skip out on house grille :/



QUOTE(IMF2025 @ May 8 2021, 11:54 PM)
Installed kdk sensa 4 and 5 in throughout my house. Damn happy with it. Looks amazing too. Modern. But pay premium la vs others.
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If 3 blade KDK any recommendation?
TSjeffboon97
post May 9 2021, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(kennykck @ May 9 2021, 02:00 PM)
My yard is only half concrete wall height (the other upper half wall is grille only) and i wanted to do full height tiles for easy cleaning purpose. My contractor suggested me to redo all tiles (with modern tiles design)  since there is not much original tiles left after doing the wet works, concrete table top, and replace the upper half wall grille with concrete. Best decision i made so far as the end result is very nice.

Tiles are produced by batch and different batch will have slightly different color. Also it is hard to get back exact same tiles design after a year or two due to design phase out. If you are not picky on the color variation then you may go ahead with your initial plan.

Never skip the house grille unless you live in high security GnG area like Setia Ecopark. Normal GnG security only requires visitor to register their name and IC, and some even let them go in with a bag of nasi lemak.
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Mine will be half fencing height so need to extend the walls, thinking to do this kind of wall pattern. Not sure does this cost more or just the plain full wall will cost cheaper?
user posted image

May I know is it hard to maintain concrete table top?
TSjeffboon97
post May 10 2021, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(kennykck @ May 9 2021, 04:09 PM)
your design look nice but you may have ventilation issue without windows, also consider privacy issue too. Maintenance wise maybe harder due to mold and algae on the joining area outside.

My kitchen top is concrete with tiles, the issue is just watermark so pick tiles that is not so glossy to minimize this.
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Yeah maintenance wise seems to be harder with the possibility of mold and algae...



QUOTE(celsiusboy @ May 10 2021, 01:31 PM)
hi , may i know how height you extending your yard wall ? i think 5ft is the max allow ? or we actually able to apply permit more than that ?
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5ft height
TSjeffboon97
post May 10 2021, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(Phyarc @ May 10 2021, 02:06 PM)
Understandably some of you are excited about renovation and then moving in the home asap. Whether homebuyers are aware or not, their homes have 24 months defects warranty after receiving the keys.

During warranty period, thoroughly check the your new house, prepare and submit defects to the developer for rectification before you carry out renovations. Your renovations could result in defects to the house, which developer will be unlikely to fix for you or make claims complicated.

The best is wait for the defects liability period to lapse before renovating as some defects may surface many months after you received the house keys, unless you don't wish to make any defects claims.
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Thanks for the heads up, definitely will get a team to inspect the house for any defects before beginning renovation. I think this is a MUST for any new houses.
TSjeffboon97
post May 10 2021, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(ChuanHong @ May 10 2021, 04:48 PM)
80k definitely sufficient to hire ID to handle kitchen, living hall & masterbedroom for you.. you could find more reference photos and talk with different ID, they can come up with better ideas throughout discussion if you have 80k budget..

Priority of renovation works:
1. Wiring plan
    a. Your plug point location/usage: e.g. how many appliances on kitchen top, how many devices on tv appliances, double pole switch required? modem, router, location.. robot cleaner? TV audio system? playstation? charging point? dining area?
    b. your preferred lighting style? simple - full LED downlight/eyeball.. Pendant light?! crystal light?! fan location..
    c. CCTV position? wiring works.. how many unit needed?

You need to sort out all these things when go for discussion.. a lot of fancy things but you need all these plugs for your usage.. some people house do not have sufficient plug/distance too far.. they bought vacuum cleaner and cant reach certain area such as walkway.. need add long extension..

2. AC piping route + plaster ceiling conceal
    a. if AC piping can back to back is the best.. try not to conceal inside your wall.. i prefer external & cover with white pvc casing.. some AC conceal works done badly and you need spend extra money for water leak whatever issues..
3. kitchen do you need top cabinet? what do you plan to have and keep.. island needed? closed style/open style.. if closed, aluminium sliding door?!
4. cabinet (TV, storage, shoes, wardrobe) - costly part if customize.. but useful.. you could plan what kind of devices/items you will have.. any place to keep? anything to display? some ppl keep luggage/xmas tree/deco item/vaccum handheld (dyson) and etc..

5. toilet sink cabinet must do.. for you to keep extra new tissue rolls, supplies.. all toilet tools & accessories are expensive but 1 time off..
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Hi first of all, thank you so much for the tips! I am afraid to engage with ID as their fees is quite high...
Perhaps if anyone here have reputable and recommended contractor contact that somewhat understand my design without the need of ID that would be great!

1. I am definitely aware of amount of plug point must be sufficient to cover many home appliances and based on what I discovered with 8 plug point on living room and another 8 plug point on kitchen should be alright.

2. I am planning to opt out on plaster ceiling as I dont want to install too many downlight, planning to install one downlight like this that can brighten the whole place. https://www.yeelight.com/en_US/product/luna
Then install some spotlights.

3. Thanks for raising this question, never really give a serious thought what we plan to store in top cabinet, but island for sure needed because my wife insisted haha if take out then GG no happy life.

4. Would definitely have some cabinet prepared on the yard area to keep those rarely use item and hardware tools.

5. Agreed, must do on ground floor toilet and master bedroom toilet.


QUOTE(hungrygodzilla @ May 10 2021, 05:01 PM)
Hi and congrats for your new house!

Just a few things I noticed on your budget:
1. Your painting budget is grossly under budget, FYI, the typical quotation for 24 x 72 terrace is about 2-3k for material, and about 2-3k for workmanship. Typical quotation i get is about 6k to 9k all in, interior only.
2. Electrical work also super under budget, for typical terrace, it normally run from 4-6k for min work, mine is close to 8-9k range because I added a shit lot of new points. But you really NEEEEEED to add points at your TV console area and kitchen. How I plan is that I write down every single appliances that I current and will own for each location and count how many points I need. And you need to add quite a lot more new points for lights as well. Also, look at your current house, see what appliances you have, count the points and plan their location. Plus, talk to your friends who just moved to a new house, ask what they find useful, and what they regretted, high chance you will feel the same.
3. My staircase storage cabinet + hidden door for store room cost me 10-14k, based on 2 quotation i have on hand. But if you buy shelves and DIY then it might be within 2k budget. But even for my in storeroom shelves, using the IKEA planner for BVOR and IVAR systems, it already cost me close to 2k
4. Ceiling fan as per previous discussion, probably try to avoid the cheapest product from KDK and panasonic. Seems like review not so good. I'm using ALPHA VC3, I remember it's about 300+ each, dont look down on the 3 blade design, it's actually really windy and quiet, I've tested on different ceiling height in all rooms of my house
5. Aircon be prepared to add 150~250 for installation, each.
6. Awning need to bump up to 2k+, I remember avg i get is about 15~18 RM per sqft, your house 20 ft, you definitely need about 6 to 8 feet of awning, can do your maths. I park my car as per how I would normally do, and measure how much awning i need, if possible add a bit more allowance, you have to consider that in times of heavy rain, the rain do drop straight, they get blown in, your wife and future baby will hate you.
7. Kitchen hood becareful, my brother and a friend of mine bought a cheapo model, and their feedback is that it's as good as useless. So you dont want to end up spending lesser on a useless piece of shit
8. Yard security door probably around 1k+

Things to consider:
1. How's the security for your housing area? If it's not good enough to make you feel secured, you will need to pay more for grilles or even high performance window or glass doors. Security door or solid wood door is super duper expensive.
2. Follow up on security, need to consider if you need CCTV and alarm system? Probably cost your 2-3k each.
3. Autogate can be expensive
4. Curtain can be expensive, typical quote for terrace house looking at 2-3k, depending on size and material

Advise:
1. To save money, buy things from taobao. Lights, kitchen sink, toilet accessories. These 3 you can quite safely buy from taobao, but do your homework, find reputable shop. You can save a lot and have a wider range of product to pick from.
2. more power socket, more more more...
3. If possible, dont buy the cheapest model in the range, unless you have friends who can give a honest review, I heard enough stories from my friend buying cheapest shit from any brand and curse when it is just as good as shit.
4. Spend more time to do homework, the more homework you do, the more you save. Know the price of everything you wanna buy so you know the vendor/shopee/lazada is not shitting on you with their "80% discount", whereby the discounted price is just their usual discount price. I started planning once i signed SNP, within the 2 years while waiting for my house, I actually got most of my appliances at a really good discounted rate.
5. If your developer is not ECOWORLD, pay 1k+ to get a reputable defect inspector, this is really like buying insurance for defect because they can really find more defects than you do, plus they are better at sniffing and f`ing your developer's contractor when they try to bullshit with you. contractors are full of bullshit. 
I've attached the pricing guideline from my current contractor, please note that, price varies from state to state, company to company. And this quotation I have is considered to be on the mid low end already as compared to other quotation I've access to.

user posted image
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Thanks for the pricing guideline and also your time!

1. Since our theme is mostly white and the original paint is white also, Do you think it is necessary to repaint?
2. I am blessed that my brother is an Electrician so he can guide me through the electrical part and quote me cheaper on that end.
3. Ahh this one I think we super underbudget, but still thinking do we need the extra storage or not.
4. Thanks, will do more research on 3 blade fan. *easier to maintain too! less 2 blade to clean*
5 and 6. Noted!
7. Any recommended brands? I think Fotile is the leading brand in this industry?
8. cry.gif cry.gif

Advise:
1. Okay thanks! will definitely start doing survey on Taobao, luckily my wife huge Taobao fan.
2. OK OK OK NO CHEAP OUT ON SOCKET!

TSjeffboon97
post May 10 2021, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(ChuanHong @ May 10 2021, 08:25 PM)
1. [COLOR=red]great.. you should consider different router for double storey house.. (mesh router as e.g.) the location of router and plug point too.. [COLOR=red]
2. [COLOR=red]plaster ceiling is something i would recommend you to do.. surface downlight doesnt mean bad, but lighting could deliver different environment feeling to you.. you could have different switch for different lighting kelvin.. yellow, white, conceal light & etc..[COLOR=red]
3.
[COLOR=red]Island will cost a bomb if you need a basin there.. but just island for storage purpose, not that high.. but really need to figure day to day usage.. top cabinet usually keep snacks, drinks, cooking ingredients & etc.. bottom cabinet usually keep something heavier like plate, cooking utensil and appliances.. got depth of cabinet is definitely bigger[COLOR=red]

paint must redo if got extra budget.. cause usually you will feel powderish from developer.. use some odorless paint will help to remove those things and smell.. btw, do you have any idea how to split your 80k budget? cause you need to set up your expectation & priorities accordingly..

if 80k include all electrical appliances, air cond, mattress, furnitures~~ hmm..
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1. Yes for landed I am afraid in the future will need to get a mesh to cover upstairs, but for now I plan to setup my desktop beside the storage area underneath the staircase. A small personal area for me to work and game.
user posted image

2. Oh from what I found now the latest tech for those surface downlight can switch color via mobile app and is quite bright. But I'll need to do a more thorough research on this first hehe.

3. Yup planning to just build an island without any cabinet or basin, a place to grab early breakfast and sip coffee in the morning even can be treated as a remote working space. Thanks for giving me an idea what is the day to day usage for the top and bottom cabinet.

Ah odorless paint is nice! Luckily my wife got friend sell Paint also thumbup.gif thumbup.gif

Perhaps my biggest concern is getting all the hacking and drilling stuff done first? The rest can slowly buy...
TSjeffboon97
post May 17 2021, 03:19 PM

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Anyone have honest review on ductless hood(recirculation hood)? How do they fare against the traditional chimney hood?
TSjeffboon97
post May 17 2021, 03:44 PM

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Also, is power track system like Eubiq, Zenso is more cost effective than hacking and looping? Because my kitchen only have 3 sockets...
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post May 19 2021, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 17 2021, 09:34 PM)
After 3 twist in sockets (estimated 110 each) can already buy a Bosch rotary hammer to dig the hole for more sockets if you do the traditional hacking and looping laugh.gif
Its still limited by your cable sizing from DB, as what those tracks alao doing are essentially high class looping.
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QUOTE(hungrygodzilla @ May 17 2021, 09:44 PM)
Nope. Way cheaper to do the traditional way, even if you use universal socket also way way way way way cheaper.
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thanks for answering! If I would like to add more sockets to another location, Plaster Ceiling is a must right? Since the wiring must be conceal if pull from DB.
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post May 19 2021, 02:11 PM

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May I know any recommended autogate brand? What to look out for in autogate?
TSjeffboon97
post Jun 29 2021, 08:43 PM

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Hi guys, anyone can share some insight regarding debris bin? Is it compulsory to get 2 bins if our house sqft exceed 1000?

Question 2: How much is typical post renovation cleaning service?

This post has been edited by jeffboon97: Jun 29 2021, 08:47 PM
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post Jun 30 2021, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Jun 30 2021, 03:10 AM)
Q1: it doesn't really tie to the house size. It tie to ur SoW. Depends on what will be hacked out. In my condo almost everyone here is 1200sf or bigger and they only use 1 bin. Unless you also plan to throw our bulky old sofas too. Anyhow bin tull already still can order a 2nd load. No issue.

Q2. Can be just the price of one vacuum cleaner if DIY. Sand and other big stones can sweep. Bur vac will condemn with the fine dust.
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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 30 2021, 06:30 AM)
When you mentioned compulsory, is it because of MC JMB requirements ? Otherwise 1 will do. Having 2 also you need space to place it. Your contractor will advise.

Normally suppliers/contractors will be responsible for the disposal after completion and is included in the reno cost, unless otherwise agreed prior.

You can engage someone to clean. Pay her 100 or more if is very dirty and you provide materials. Many now looking for work, locals and foreigners. If you are worried of covid, then diy.
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thanks for the advice, reason for me to ask is because my ID quote me RM 1000 for 2 bin and RM 1200 for a post renovation cleaning service. bangwall.gif



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