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 Military Thread V28

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Mai189
post May 24 2021, 01:05 PM

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Probably the best image of Sgs Blue Spear missile thus far:

user posted image

Sg and Israels IAI have been developing a new 5gen SSM based on the Gabriel 5 called Blue Spear to replace their Harpoon missiles. Sg and Israel set up the 50/50 joint venture company, Proteus Systems, to market the missile to Asian customers.Sg will produce the war-head, rocket engine, parts of the missile body amongst others whilst Israel will produce the guidance systems. Sg and israel will assemble the missile in their respective countries so it is domestically produced.

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/44158

As can be seen from the photo above, the evolved Gabriel 5 or Blue Spear has more strakes (reminds me of the python missile)and sensors/guidance systems (not just front) on the side of the missile body. This likely confers high maneuverability in tight spaces unseen in an anti-ship missile, and of great benefit in littoral environments e.g. SEA where there are thousands of merchant ships at any point of time.

Gabriel 5 has a range of 200km to 400km.

Compare the baseline Gabriel 5 to the one above:

https://defense-update.com/20180706_ssm2020.html

Missile specs:
Seeker: Active radar seeker with advanced anti-jam features, all-weather capability, wide search range and good discrimination resolution
Warhead: Penetrating warhead
Engine: Jet engine
Navigation: GPS / INS, multiple waypoints
Length: 5.5 m
Weight: 1250 kg
Speed: Subsonic

The missile is much larger and heavier than harpoons - apart from the longer range, it is expected to carry a larger warhead i.e. sink carriers with dual function of land attack.


This post has been edited by Mai189: May 24 2021, 01:21 PM
Mai189
post May 24 2021, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 24 2021, 01:05 PM)
Probably the best image of Sgs Blue Spear missile thus far:

user posted image

Sg and Israels IAI have been developing a new 5gen SSM based on the Gabriel 5 called Blue Spear to replace their Harpoon missiles. Sg and Israel set up the 50/50 joint venture company, Proteus Systems, to market the missile to Asian customers.Sg will produce the war-head, rocket engine, parts of the missile body amongst others whilst Israel will produce the guidance systems. Sg and israel will assemble the missile in their respective countries so it is domestically produced.

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/44158

As can be seen from the photo above, the evolved Gabriel 5 or Blue Spear has more strakes (reminds me of the python missile)and sensors/guidance systems (not just front) on the side of the missile body. This likely confers high maneuverability in tight spaces unseen in an anti-ship missile, and of great benefit in littoral environments e.g. SEA where there are thousands of merchant ships at any point of time.

Gabriel 5 has a range of 200km to 400km.

Compare the baseline Gabriel 5 to the one above:

https://defense-update.com/20180706_ssm2020.html

Missile specs:
Seeker: Active radar seeker with advanced anti-jam features, all-weather capability, wide search range and good discrimination resolution
Warhead: Penetrating warhead
Engine: Jet engine
Navigation: GPS / INS, multiple waypoints
Length: 5.5 m
Weight: 1250 kg
Speed: Subsonic

The missile is much larger and heavier than harpoons - apart from the longer range, it is expected to carry a larger warhead i.e. sink carriers with dual function of land attack.
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Israel/Sg Blue Spear=Finnish SSM2020=UKs Sea serpent

The same missile is being offered to the UK to replace its harpoons:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/israeli-fir...urface-missile/

In the Finnish navy competition the missile beat even the RBS 15 MK4 Gungnir and latest variants of harpoons and exocet missiles.

user posted image

Note: 1) It is marketed as being both an anti-ship and land attack missile. So it suitably fills a niche for navies which want both an anti-ship missile and land attack missile w4 resorting to something like a tomahawk missile which can be an overkill for their needs. 2) It is probably the first western SSM with an Aesa sensor (almost impossible to jam) and with a high end AI. 3) 5gen generally because it is a missile to be used in cooperative engagements - for network centric armed forces. 4) Currently, the largest bona fide western anti ship SSM given its size. 5) A ship like the Formidable can carry up to 24 Blue Spear missiles as deck space mountings approximates with that of current harpoon missile launchers.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 24 2021, 01:48 PM
Mai189
post May 24 2021, 02:29 PM

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Cooperative engagement e.g.:



The sensor can be say a f35, uav, usv and the shooter can be radar/sensor cold. Vice-versa.
Mai189
post May 25 2021, 01:03 PM

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One of the reasons why Hamas critical bases and tunnels were knocked out very fast once they started lobbing rockets:

Ofeq 16:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35991...t-spy-satellite

Something interesting 2 note:

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/israel...-satellite-deal

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 25 2021, 01:10 PM
Mai189
post May 25 2021, 03:58 PM

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RSAF new Caracals are being delivered to Sg. Open source info indicates 2 batch orders of about 16 helicopters each (total of 30-35) to replace the 32 Super Pumas and Cougar helicopters.




user posted image



QUOTE
Singapore’s H225Ms are also fitted with a nose mounted electro-optical turret capable of transmitting full motion video in low light conditions, along with a defensive suite believed to be made by Elbit Systems. Defense News also understands at least some of the follow-on aircraft for Singapore will be fitted with a dorsal dome antenna believed to house satellite communications equipment.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pac...s-have-arrived/

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 25 2021, 04:12 PM
Mai189
post May 25 2021, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 25 2021, 03:58 PM)
RSAF new Caracals are being delivered to Sg. Open source info indicates 2 batch orders of about 16 helicopters each (total of 30-35) to replace the 32 Super Pumas and Cougar helicopters.


user posted image


https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pac...s-have-arrived/
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Adieu Super Pumas - sterling service for 30 years in RSAF.



Mai189
post May 26 2021, 12:37 PM

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25 MAY 2021

Indonesia's plan to procure Rafale fighters hampered by funding roadblock
by Ridzwan Rahmat

The Indonesian Ministry of Defense (MOD) has made further progress in its effort to procure 36 Rafale multirole fighter aircraft from Dassault Aviation but a formal contract may be delayed by a lack of clarity over funding sources.

In February, a delegation of senior Indonesian MOD officials led by Major General Dadang Hedrayudha, director general of the ministry's defence potential department, completed the latest round of negotiations with Dassault Aviation's vice-president for business development Jean Claude Piccirillo, and vice-president for offset Michael Paskoff.

The negotiations, which largely covered offset and financing arrangements, went well, Maj Gen Dadang said in February. The MOD has since raised a request for the programme to be funded with foreign-sourced loans, ministry officials disclosed in March.

However, a schedule of national projects that have been approved for foreign funding was obtained by Janes on 21 May. It confirms that Rafale programme has not been included. The schedule is published annually by the Indonesian Ministry of National Development Planning (Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional: BAPPENAS), and it spells out national programmes for which foreign loans can be obtained for the year.

As such, given the lack of endorsement from the BAPPENAS, the bid to procure 36 Rafale fighters has not been gazetted by the Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MOF) as a defence procurement programme for the 2021 financial year.

Janes

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-det...nding-roadblock

I wonder how much debt they are prepared to incur.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 26 2021, 12:39 PM
Mai189
post May 26 2021, 01:21 PM

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Meanwhile RSAF is receiving its latest Chinooks,:



1) 6× CH-47D/10× CH-47SD Chinooks (1996/1999–present)

2) 16× CH-47F Chinooks - ordered in 2016, delivery slated for 2020 to replace the CH-47Ds:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pac...6-are-on-order/

Hence, RSAF will operate about 26 to 30 CH-47SD and CH-47F Chinooks.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 26 2021, 01:27 PM
Mai189
post May 26 2021, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 26 2021, 01:21 PM)
Meanwhile RSAF is receiving its latest Chinooks,:



1) 6× CH-47D/10× CH-47SD Chinooks (1996/1999–present)

2) 16× CH-47F Chinooks - ordered in 2016, delivery slated for 2020 to replace the CH-47Ds:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pac...6-are-on-order/

Hence, RSAF will operate about 26 to 30 CH-47SD and CH-47F Chinooks.
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So what has RSAF Chinooks been up 2?



Wink wink..

user posted image
user posted image

user posted image

Mais note: 1st MRCV heavy frigate will be launched in 2025. All are expected to be commissioned by 2030.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 26 2021, 01:47 PM
Mai189
post May 26 2021, 01:56 PM

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I must say the Endurance 160 (160m to 169m), Endurance 170 (170m to 179m) or follow on larger variants e.g. Endurance 240 bears a lot of resemblance to RNs Invincible class carriers. It is almost as if space is left behind for a ski ramp to be installed:

user posted image
Mai189
post May 27 2021, 10:06 AM

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Pls read why FPDA was started and why it is relevant and why it is more facilitative as a loose grouping. There is a difference between wanting to buy something and buying it. There is a difference between assembly of equipment ( 2 provide employment et al.) and designing it from the ground up. There is a difference between designing the network which brings disparate systems together and having them work effectively than making everything in-house (does not make sense and you cant as youll source for integral systems elsewhere,).There are certainly strategic areas a country would want to be proficient in and they will dovetail with said countrys' interests.

P.S: Not everyone in SEA hates China. And most countries in SEA welcome a responsibly behaving China contributing meaningfully 2 the international community as part of a wider engagement by world powers here so that no one country dominates and dictates terms. Many of the SEA countries' military acquisitions and development have to be seen in that context esp. SG as a status-quo power in the region.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 27 2021, 10:36 AM
Mai189
post May 27 2021, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ May 27 2021, 02:44 PM)
When I said 'obligated' it had less to do with FPDA but more to do with SG being a  quazi ' protectorate ' of US. 85% of US investment in ASEAN goes through SG. So it's in their best interest to do what the American told them to do.

ID is not like MY at all despite speaking the same language. They have a big country with big population & destined to be a minor world power in 30 years time. So they pretty much act like chinese during the age of Deng.

ID like china military acquisition and international postering are not design for war. It's design for the domestic audiences not dissimilar to what Mahathir did to SG before.
Assembling weapons is one thing, building weapon from ground up is another. MY can assemble Honda car but designing our own car like P1 was an utter failure. To be fair we unlike JP,Ch & US post Mahathir hasn't spend money & protectionism to make local industry a success at all. Just see how much money they spend for the F35 or Shinkansen.

Assembling helicopter is not difficult, Airbus are more than happy to allowed local production. CH/JP/SK/ID had all done those. Personally i do think we would do so as well but instead of the puma it would be the H160M. Which unfortunately the french hasn't completed yet. CTRM had already expand their factory 200% bigger than before.

Assembling jet fighter too is not difficult, LM, saab, Kai even the chinese are more then happy to license local production. But we need to purchase hundred of it to make it worthwhile on top of money on R&D just to get a shittier less capable version then what already in the market.

For SK/India/china/turkey & even ID, due to their geopolitics may make it a worthwhile efforts. Some a ia conflict while other had superpowers ambitious.  A good example of it is Gripen. By merit an excellent fighters. But sweeden doesn't have the allies/economic & military power to make it a worthwhile purchase for everyone else.

All of MY weapon efforts & TOT is exactly just that. A songlap efforts. We are not in a conflict or have enough population to justify a dedicated weapon manufacturer. If we truly want a defense industry then pick something with a civilian application. Thing like Eurocopter/Renault truck/Damen ship/ ivenco are civilian stuff that can be militarized.

Infact it does seem it was the army & gov want to do except politaik just can't stop fucking it up.

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Lol wut protectorate? Sg has not joined the US on their more wilder endeavours. There is a reason why Sg has refused to be a treaty ally although they are allies for mutual benefits for all intents and purposes - they signed a separate military agreement.

As for indo, you should count their chickens or assets when they "actually" buy/build something. Otherwise, it is all not true or vapourware esp. given their financial constraints.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 27 2021, 03:12 PM
Mai189
post May 27 2021, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ May 27 2021, 02:59 PM)
Seem like they would start constructions by 2030.
RMN too plans to get another MRSS by that time frame.

Maybe we should tumpang build one with them. Rather then spending a lot of money just designing a single ship.
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This is a good point. See how Euro countries support one another in defence. Sg and My have often negotiated on the basis of package of benefits as the 2 economies are linked.

In spite of cross border arguments by politicos, the most pragmatic thing to do by both countries is to work closer together in the future. People to people relationship and even between the 2 militaries are excellent. Many people forget the air defences of Sg and peninsula My are jointly coordinated with IADS at Butterworth. Personal politics aside Sg will not say no to the deployment of her GBADs in My if the need arises. And IADs have vectored RSAF planes against intruders to My airspace.

I suspect with the departure of Tun and his generation and one generation after that, relations will improve. LKY has already left and LHL will be stepping down.

2020 to 2030 - busy decade for RSN however ST has room for more:

RSNs build/induction list in no order of priority is 1) MRCV heavy frigates to replace the Victory class corvettes 2) Mid-life upgrade to Formidable class frigates 3) JSSM LHDs to replace Endurance class LPDs 4) Purpose built light frigates for maritime security 5) Induction/further purchase of Invincible class submarines 6) Build up of USVs and UUvs 7) Likely new minesweepers 8) Definitely new MPAs to replace the ageing Fokker 50s - P8s.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 27 2021, 03:50 PM
Mai189
post May 27 2021, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ May 27 2021, 03:48 PM)
Interesting you mention 'wilder' endeavors.
Because they do join in in some minor endeavors.
Understandable why they don't join the war on terror is due to their two neighbors isn't it? They are more than happy to join the war on china though.

Like i said ID are just doing it for domestic audiences. The fact is they don't even have enough capabilities to hold on to their owned territories.

But then again, in 20-30 years they would be in the same position as the chinese is now and would be doing the exact same shit. So it's a good idea for them to start their own military industrial complex. Not to mention not every indonesian want to be indonesian so the risk of being embargo again is high.
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Sg has not joined in any overt anti PRC alliances or groupings. They are involved in the fight against terrorists.

No comment on Indo. They are not the PRC in terms of competitiveness. It may take a longer time - see India. Meanwhile, the world moves along - not like they are sitting still. So, catching up is relative.
Mai189
post May 27 2021, 04:24 PM

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Bersama Lima will be a sight this year with the UKCBG

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 05:31 PM
Mai189
post May 27 2021, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 27 2021, 04:24 PM)


Bersama Lima will be sight this year with the UKCBG
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Mai189
post May 27 2021, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ May 27 2021, 05:49 PM)
Currently their defense spending is as high as indonesia.

But In pre covid 2033 estimate, MY economy would be 2x of SG while ID would be 3x of MY. So by then MY & ID can afford the same toys as SH even with just 1% spending on GDP on defense. By 2040 MY GDP PPP per capita would be in parity with SK.

So unless we fucked things up and hired ourselves another dictator. Getting the same LPD as SG by 2035 is possible. We  can probably afford for a joint procurement of weapon post 2040.
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Sgs budget has been consistently larger:

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-det...-for-2021_15567

Then you need 2 take into account of how Sg makes every cent worthwhile for a country known for its efficiency, low to zero corruption, low overheads, etc.

I do not have a crystal ball with me to know how Msia or Indo will be like in future. However, I do know that Msians and Sgreans are of the same stock. And if Msia progresses to rely on some form of merit-based (and not race) policies as a basis for societal progress, Sg and Msia will re-merge or at least there will be some form of economic union. The union of Msia and Sg will be akin to another South Korea, if not better.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 05:32 PM
Mai189
post May 29 2021, 04:51 PM

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Fresh from Darwin, RSAF sends another aerial task force to Guam to train with US forces and likely F35s.

And spotted over by a pinoy:



This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 04:53 PM
Mai189
post May 29 2021, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ May 27 2021, 11:04 PM)
More like their citizens doesn't expect low taxation & high social services which allows them to spend more on defense.

But they already spend 3% on defense. Doubt their rakyat can accept any more  hike in defense spending particularly if MY & ID behave & not be a dick
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Actually, their citizens "do' want more defence spending because they know they can spend more and have the monies to back it up. They dont borrow to spend and yet thier wealth keeps increasing. The only thing that is holding them back is that the PAP government is financially prudent. Sgs constitution caps spending at 6% of GDP.

At 3% they are already spending abt usd $12billion. You want Sg to double that to $24billion USD? Im sure no one in the region wants that. Not Indo and not Msia when you have a neighbour with a defence budget bigger than israels'.

P.S:
I do expect Sgs spending to hit abt USD $14 to USD $15 billion and taper off until 2030ish or when they reach the golden number for right amt of money for expenses vis a vis cost savings e.g. low overheads - small size, high productivity/efficiency etc.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 05:23 PM
Mai189
post May 29 2021, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(Lampuajaib @ May 28 2021, 04:33 PM)
Lol. The US alone will operate >1000 F35s. Only logical they get rid of the earlier non upgradeable versions.

RSAF f35s due 2025-26 are block 4 onwards. F35s from other countries will be upgraded to blk 4 versions.

People dont understand that bar the small no. Of usaf f35s trg versions, the rest of the f35s in service ard the world merely need software upgrades now and in future when there r further developments. Thats why the f35 is called the worlds 1st truly digital combat jet.

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