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 Lemon law: you can sue and you can win

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TSEnergyAnalyst
post Nov 28 2023, 10:15 AM

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https://www.thevibes.com/articles/news/9791...r-false-mileage

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Car owner wins case against used car dealer over false mileage 
Consumer Claims Tribunal awards RM6,940 to buyer for decreased valuation, cost of service

Updated 3 months ago · Published on 18 Aug 2023 3:32PM

A car owner has won a compensation claim against a used car dealer after discovering the pre-owned Honda Accord he bought three months ago had actually clocked more than twice the mileage shown on its odometer upon purchase. – Pixabay pic, August 18, 2023


BY Shahrim Tamrin
PUTRAJAYA – A civil servant won a compensation claim against a used car dealer after he discovered inaccurate odometer readings upon purchasing a car.


He took the dealer to the Consumer Claims Tribunal to seek compensation for the pre-owned Honda Accord he bought three months ago which had actually clocked more than twice the mileage shown on its odometer upon purchase. 

The civil servant sought relief of 50% reimbursement from the amount of service cost and purchase price to be reduced by RM5,000.

In view of the evidence presented, tribunal president Haliza Aini Datuk Othman handed down an award of RM6,940.33 to the applicant. 

On May 5, the owner purchased the 10-year-old Honda Accord 2.0l VTI-L with an odometer reading of 97,007km.

He bought the Accord at the price of RM34,600 after trading-in his 2008 Toyota Camry 2.4l for RM23,000.

Five days later, he brought the car to an authorised Honda service centre in Seremban for a thorough check and paid RM3,880.66 for parts replacement and service. 

He was then shocked to discover from the customer database that the car had apparently clocked 202,671km when it was last serviced by the former owner in January.

The claimant then contacted the previous owner and received confirmation that the Accord had allegedly reached over 200,000km at the time the car was sold to a broker.

In response, the representative of the car dealer located in Banting denied allegations of any malpractice.

“We sold the car on the basis of ‘as is where is’,” he said. “We have no knowledge of the rolling back odometer as claimed.” 

In the company’s defence, the manager argued that “customers should be aware of the risks when buying a used car in its current condition regardless of its known or unknown damages or defects.” 

In addition, the claimant also demanded RM20,000 compensation in lieu of a potential warranty void since the coverage requirements, among others, stated that it is only applicable for a vehicle with an odometer below 180,000km.

He explained that upon purchase of the car, the dealer had given a one-year warranty with a coverage value of RM40,000 for repairs to parts and systems such as the gearbox, engine control unit, engine control module and air-conditioning.

“Now that I own a used car with false mileage, I fear that I may face excessive cost of repairs and maintenance,” said the 49-year-old government officer, who was formerly attached to the Melaka Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs department. 

However, the tribunal president made a decision that the secondhand dealer must ensure that the 12-month warranty coverage was provided for the applicant.

The car dealer has 14-days to comply with the tribunal’s decision under Section 117 (1) of the Consumer Protection Act 1999 which provides for a fine of up to RM5,000 or jail up to two years, or both, if found guilty. 

The Consumer Claims Tribunal is an alternative dispute resolution avenue to civil courts for consumers to speedily file redress claims for purchases of goods and services up to RM50,000. – The Vibes, August 18, 2023
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 5 2024, 04:09 PM

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https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/national/rol...law/ar-AA1msbPX



TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 6 2024, 12:08 PM

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https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2024/01/...google_vignette



Nagakanni expressed her gratitude to netizens who supported her in her efforts to claim her rights as a consumer.

"Most importantly, thank you to everyone who helped me claim this right. I am indebted to you.

"The struggle to claim our rights from big companies is not easy, especially for me, a clerk who is just like an ant.

"But I learned something.

"Even if we are as small as ants, if we unite regardless of colour and race, we will succeed. Finally, because of sugar, the ants have united," she said.

TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 7 2024, 01:56 AM

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https://www.therakyatpost.com/news/malaysia...%20a%20disaster.

what is going these day with Toyota & Perodua? Reminded me of Proton
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 13 2024, 01:11 AM

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https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2024/01/...ner-shares-same

One more lemon reported
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 15 2024, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(ayamxxx @ Jan 15 2024, 10:11 AM)
https://www.thevibes.com/articles/news/8494...7vYsERsgA2FLTFc

Claim 200k, won only rm50k lol. No wonder company all taici mode
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Just not sure if RM50k is sufficient to cover his lawyer's fee.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 17 2024, 01:31 AM

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Yes folks , no lemon law yet , hence we badly need one
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 17 2024, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Jan 17 2024, 04:37 AM)
Why is the dealership liable again ? Why isn't the manufacturer that is liable ? Manufacturer or dealer yang pasang vehicles ? Shouldn't the manufacturer be producing vehicles that are of certain standard & quality, so that their vehicles are operable  especially within it's warranty period ?

It's similiar to when buyers or their financier makes payment to the manufacturer via their dealership, don't the manufacturers & their dealers receive the full amount billed ? Ada ke tak terima full amount ? If ada, tak terima full amount atau tak dapat sebarang bayaran langsung or kena duit palsu ke, then tak payah be held liable for detective vehicles.

Ini kira vehicles yang defective aje tahu, belum lagi saya masuk "sengaja defective by design tanpa disedari ramai" tahu.
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The simplest way to put it is precisely we do not have lemon law yet, hence dealer becomes the only one liable because they are they are the only one entering into the sales and purchase agreement with the car buyer.

When you book a car, you make payment to the dealer when doing booking (booking fee) . When paying the rest of the purchase price , you and also your financier pay to dealer and not the principal (car maker) or car assembler and certainly not master dealer.

No direct dealing some say, I am not saying this is right but I am saying this is why.

TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 17 2024, 09:22 AM

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What Is a Lemon Law? The first lemon law was enacted in the USA in 1975 as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It was first enacted to protect consumers whose car warranties had loopholes that allowed manufacturers to worm their way out of honoring their customers' warranty claims.

Malaysia only already has a Consumer Protection Act (CPA) which came into effect in 1999. This act aims to provide greater protection to consumers and allows us to go to the Consumer Redressal Tribunal for any dispute or claim of not more than RM50,000. Under the CPA, you as a consumer, have these rights.

The right to all the products and services of daily basic needs including food, clothes, health, education, and housing.

Protection from products, services, and manufacturing processes that may expose you to danger.

The right to obtain accurate information about a product and service.

Freedom in buying and being assured that a product or service you need comes through the right channels, based on the right price.

Right to claim damages from unfair practices from the supplier or manufacturer.

While the CPA does provide protection to consumers, a lemon law can strengthen the CPA and provide additional protection, especially to car buyers.
https://www.carsome.my/news/item/what-is-le...rranty%20claims.




This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jan 17 2024, 09:29 AM
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Jan 18 2024, 10:46 PM

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https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/amp/categ...-with-new-cars/

Talk . Please walk
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Feb 3 2024, 10:37 AM

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https://autodeal.my/proton-would-welcome-le...alaysia-roslan/

Proton would welcome a possible introduction of a lemon law in Malaysia, according to its deputy CEO, Roslan Abdullah. However, car manufacturers should be protected under the rule too, he said.

“We are supportive of efforts to protect consumers. It is our fervent hope that such a law should protect manufacturers too, as we are also consumers. We also rely on parts from others and are exposed to the elements just like other consumers,” Roslan explained.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Feb 3 2024, 10:41 AM

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https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...will-be-divine/

...there are relevant laws which protect vehicle owners, such as the Hire Purchase Act 1967, Sale of Goods Act 1967 and Consumer Protection Act 1999, which are applicable in defective vehicle cases.

Taken together, they ensure the protection of the hirer, consumer or buyer by imposing implied conditions on warranties and guarantees as to title, quality, sample, description, repairs, spare parts, and defects.

Most new vehicles sold in Malaysia are financed under a hire-purchase agreement, with the bank as the beneficial owner and the buyer as the legal owner.

Andrew Suresh, a lawyer who specialises in automotive law, says consumers have a right to reject a new vehicle based on certain conditions, for example if it does not fit its purpose, or it is not of merchantable quality.

However, a defect or issue which can be rectified successfully by the dealer does not entitle the buyer to reject the vehicle.

It must be a major defect – usually one which arises from technical faults, for example issues with the electronics or information technology, or some serious mechanical issues which makes the vehicle undrivable despite all rectification works by the manufacturer or dealer’s authorised service centre within a reasonable period.....
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Feb 4 2024, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 3 2024, 01:41 PM)
Buying parts to make a vehicle = Buying a vehicle.
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Not sure what you mean.

The way this Proton's no 2 man said it sounds to me he wanted Proton to be PROTECTED BY LEMON LAW TOO against his suppliers too.

Sounds to me , like he wants to pass the blame or responsibility to the autoparts suppliers.



TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 9 2024, 08:50 AM

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https://soyacincau.com/2024/03/08/malaysia-...ying-lemon-law/


According to the Ministry of Domestic Trade and Cost of Living, a feasibility study on the Lemon Law will be carried out this year. According to the Minister, Datuk Armizan Mohd Ali, the Lemon Law will help consumers claim losses if the product or vehicle they purchased breaks down or does not follow the quality criteria as stated by the manufacturer.


He was responding to a question by Datuk Seri Wee Ka Siong at today’s parliamentary seating.

“Once the study is completed, a policy decision will be made at the Ministry level before the legal framework is carried out,” he said in a written reply.





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post Apr 10 2024, 11:13 AM

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https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2024/04/...ber-says-fuziah

Good. Progress
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post Apr 10 2024, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Apr 10 2024, 05:23 PM)
How is it that the quality criteria is stated by the manufacturer and not according to international standard of operation ? If according to manufacturer standards, then the manufacturer can claim anything is valid and good. For example new modern vehicles now comes with GPS trackers etc from their distributor which suppose to help deter theft. How is it that vehicles equipped with such systems, the moment it's stolen, it cannot be traced at all within the minutes of it being stolen ? What manufacturer standard is that ? Manufacturer is helping the thieves or what ?
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Before anwering you ,

What do you see from lemon law in Singapore?

https://irblaw.com.sg/learning-centre/lemon...tationary%20etc.

The answer is somewhere therein

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Apr 11 2024, 11:07 AM
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 10 2024, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Apr 10 2024, 07:56 PM)
Limitation of 6 months ? Kind of ridiculous I would say for a GPS tracking system. Ridiculous is not the proper word in this context but it's outrageous. To add salt to injury, subscribers have to pay annual fees for such tracking system that is proven to be utterly useless the moment it is stolen. Ini macam mana kira ?
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Yes. you have your answer there. When a law is amended or a new law is enacted, it will get view of various stakeholders (in our discussion here, using a car produced and sold. That will involve the car maker themselves (producer), the parts maker (sub-producer), the dealers (seller) and perhaps some consumer protection group representatives (buyer), then never forget banks too (the financier). Some how, after review of all facts and thoughts in Singapore, this happened.

Any law made is often accused of being unjust, unfair and inadequate. In reality however, the law is simply a framework comprising a set of rules and principles that have been developed so that people know where they stand in their dealings with each other.
For the framework to work, it needs to be applied consistently and uniformly. But it is also going to be further developed over time as and when the need arise. Law is never final, it is subject to amendments.

"Quality criteria stated by manufacturer" is simply to be understood as the features of a production vehicle or production car are mass-produced identical models, offered for sale to the public including its durability, its limitation of use, its warranty terms and conditions, etc. So as the car company who produce it, of course the manufacturer shall have a right and a say in those things. All things produced (not necessarily jut cars) of course have limitation of use, and limitation of time/durability.

So don't become panic over a general statement like that.

And please don't feel Singapore is no good by my example because Singapore is ranked higher when it comes to rule of law

https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/global

https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/global

Malaysia is higher ranked in rules of law compare to China, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam and Philippines and other SEA countries

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Apr 10 2024, 11:33 PM
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 11 2024, 10:40 AM

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Having say the above, consumer place is above all as we are the one who hand in our money. Henry Ford said it the best:
Attached Image

TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 11 2024, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Apr 11 2024, 11:04 AM)
Whatever law they want to draw up, I am not bothered nor interested. In the most unfortunate event I ever become the plantiff, I pity the defendant who is going to face me in court. No out of court settlement nonsense.
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Your lawyer will advise you according to the existing law.

You can't be not bothered.
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post Apr 13 2024, 03:52 PM

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https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/l...liament-1891446

Singapore has lemon law passed since 2012 , 12 years ago

My personal urge to government of the day @Malaysia. Please make our country not further than 12 years behind. Make it happen this year

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