feral dps lol...

ur gonna be pitted against rogues, and unless ur competing against a crippled or retarded rogue, or a very undergeared rogue compared to urself, you have 0 chance to outdps the rogue.

and being a melee dps'er, your viability will be put to the chopping board, if you know what i mean. true, occassionaly feral bears tank, but thats just as viable as feral dps can go.

if you beat those rogues then they are no doubt the opposite of what you said.

and reading comprehension failing? whos talking about undergeared rogues beating you? if ur gonna compared to the handicapped, grats on winning the special olympics, no matter whos the winner, ur all retards.

and if ur guild is using mostly druids in cats and shadow priests over rogue and warlock, which are a more "purer" form over the class you mentioned, again, grats on the special olympics.

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Added on September 4, 2007, 4:35 pmI KNOW WHAT YOU DID THARRRRRRR

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 4 2007, 04:35 PM

since your wanting only raid pve dps, here they are:
numbers alone, if you made thorough comparisons, you will see why rogue has ALL the advantages over a druid.

-aggro threshold
rogue have a passive -20% (or was it 30%? confused) aggro to everything he do, coupled with feints (shitty skill, but just to point out comparisons and advantages over a druid) and vanishes altogether, a rogue can go over the aggro limit while a druid, even if he can out dps the rogue, will be severely capped by the aggro limit.

-itemization
look in game on rogue and druid items. most agi based melee dps items have hit rating attached to them, which obviously, helps rogues more than they help druids. rogues require between 250-300 hit rating, druid requires maybe... 100ish? just to get the 5% cap and the lvl73 miss penalty cap. needless to say, you will be having wasted stats. then compare the rogue set and the feral druid set, yet again, more advantages to the rogue. notice once ur on t5 and beyond, rogues get default passive armor piercing... druids... not so great.

-buff ultilizations
LOTP, if a druid have it, rogues can too, so favor to rogue, nada to druid. windfury, weapons > paws. blessings, druids need salvation to keep their aggro contained, rogues just get BOK or BOM to further out dps druid and all they need to do is one vanish (provided tank dont suck, and it isnt an aggro sensitive fight such as onyxia for example, wing buffets that bumps tank's aggro down) and its MAX dps all the way. and if ur gonna compare the pure raid dps rogue spec - combat daggers, the faster they swing, the more energy returns from offhand and that too, = more dps and more advantages to rogue over druid. not to mention rogue is the best class to stack haste ratings with since they can ultilize mongoose, (again, paws cant play with mongoose) and not to mention, DUAL mongoose which is 240 AGI and DOUBLE haste bonus AND combine with SND AND other haste effects. come on, its getting no brainer already.

of course, rogue is a class built solely to dps. they cant buff, they cant heal, and they take dmg too and rely on heals. druids can self heal, can tank, can PROVIDE other stuffs to the raid other than dps. rogue's value and role in the raid is only one - dps behind a mob.

correct me if im wrong but his question merely asks which class amongst feral druid and shadow priests dps more. not 1v1 pvp and who dps more. that the later question, which is how to beat a shadow priest 1v1 in pvp.

as for latency, unless ur fight is movement intensive, no latency will NOT affect much of your pve dps abilities so long ur around or under 500ish ms. it will affect, but not by a significant ammount, and to good dps'ers, it is almost as if theres not latency.

bear in mind, this is coming from a rogue's perspective:
why is it so? because the majority of rogue PVE raiding dps comes from WHITE ATTACKS. latency CANNOT affect white client side melee swings. all the rogue gotta do is build CP (via ss/mutilate/backstab) and maintain a SND cycle and you win. excess energy/CPs are spent on either rupture/envenom/eviscerate finishers.

also, sub 500 dps EVEN FOR A DRUID IN CAT is piss poor. a PROT tank can reach around 300-400+ which puts him just a bit more than a PROT TANK. avg good dps'ers at kara/gruul's level of gear sport around 600-900 dps AT LEAST. i myself maintain 900-1100 over a 5min sustained dps. (meaning its accurate, 900-1100 over the entire 5mins) and my pve gears still sport a lot of blues, and i never had the luxury to have enh shamans/feral druid or sometimes even warrior's bshout in my group.

and no, dps values are synoymous to damage done. unless ur counting dps under a 5-10 seconds value, and that is burst dmg, not actual dps. dps over a 5min sustained timer is the most accurate level to measure one's dmg value (dps). so if his value his high, his dmg done will no doubt automatically be high. unless of course, aoe fights are concerned.

your rogue (rogin) needs to step the f*** up and get his miss rates down.

and wheres his poisons dmg value? mutilate rogues dealing no dmg from poisons? wtf?

cant agree any better

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Added on September 4, 2007, 11:32 pmhealers need some love too! ok!

so they get to poke around #1 on dps meters

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 4 2007, 11:32 PM

oiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

DPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUS
DPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUS
DPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUS
DPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUS
DPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUSDPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUS

DPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUSDPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUSDPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUSDPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUSDPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUSDPS AND TOTAL DAMAGE DONE ARE IN RELATION AND HENCEFORTH SYNONYMOUS

i had nasi kukus, you all f***en lose

extra kari kuah with ayam goreng herba! heal spec my ass, max dps!

where got time for deserts when you got:

lunch time 1 hour breakdown
- 10mins walk to place
- 10mins wait for food
- 30mins of talking shit while eating
- 10mins walk back office

not possible

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Added on September 6, 2007, 11:30 amwont get fried squids for that?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 6 2007, 11:30 AM

i may start job hunting too soon... need higher pay for a better pc lolz!!!

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Added on September 6, 2007, 3:25 pmthat is why blizz give them all the advantage in the world when it comes to dps. (aside melee unfriendly fights)
since they cant do anything else besides dps'ing

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 6 2007, 03:25 PM

in high end arena sense, they are equally the shittiest class.

in pve sense, even with rogues able to top dps meters while hunters for the most part couldnt, at least they can avoid repair bills almost all the time, and they are pretty much the only class able to afkshot since aggro is non-factor to them and their main dmg comes from autoshot.

1) 5v5 or 3v3 yields more epeen and/or points?
2) check your info again, 3v3 teams are still majoritily dominated by the unholy 4 warrior/paladin/warlock/priest
3) the above applies to 2v2 and 5v5 as well
4) when world class players like nitrana/xecks/neilyo/hwarang have issues with their class and from time to time express their concerns about the rogue class, i doubt its just a matter of "know how to play the class, and it'll be f***ing useful", because quite frankly, those guys KNOW how to play their damn class.
5) look around the tournaments being held, rogues and hunters are always on the all time low as opposed to the unholy 4 -> warrior/paladin/warlock/priest, this should mean something, if it doesnt to you, go shoot yourself in the head.
6) EPIC FAIL, TRY AGAIN BIATCH.

well, that is true. give or take.

rogues while having melee issues, at least its just melee. hunters, LOS, deadzone, GETTING KITED LOL!, is just sad. then when they go oom, gg pee shots.

do take note though, i did mention both hunters/rogues, not just rogues

and no, only hunters that are competitive are MM hunters, no surv, no BM, all MM.

1) if ur 3v3 is amongst the top50 or so then it would matter. till then, the 5v5 matter more as it'll generate more points in less effort, and more points means easier gear acquiring. and gear, means a lot in your character performance. you dont expect to beat a 400 resil guy in just 200 resil, now do you?

2) you do realize that:
- bg9 is ONE bg
- 3 names out of the 4 names i mentioned are ALL in BG9 (hwarang is in EU WoW)
- its still 3v3? hello? even pandemic benched nitrana (#1 in BG9 3v3) for their 5v5
- 4dps setup isnt as friendly as you think because:
=you need either druid or paladin as a healer, preferably paladin, and a damn f***ing good one at that
=if enemy is smart, eg: the warrior, def stance + spell ref + BOP etc will stop your initial burst, and the strongest element of a 4dps team is burst. once thats taken away, you can kiss your 4dps goodbye.
=we are running a 4dps/3.5 dps setup atm, and i can assure you, its not as scrub friendly as you may think. especially in a latency handicapped enviroment. 3 dps 2 heal setup is much much more scrub friendly as it allows fights to be prolonged than the initial burst.
= again, paladin, is amongst the class ive mentioned as top4 class

3) you did noticed lock is amongst the top4 class i mentioned right? and in 2v2, you also realized warlocks are basically the best 1v1 class right? to some extent they can 1v2 easily. you may as well call it 2.5vs2 if ur team have a warlock already. and you know damn well 2v2/3v3 is based on rock paper scissors right? aka class imabalance. so for the most part the only thing that really matters is 5v5, and hunters/rogues suck badly at.

if ur gonna bring in why tournaments favor 3v3 more, ill fire this back at you, its simple, 5v5 is NOT fun to spectate. the main benefit of a tournament is spectators, and what the spectators favor, is what the tournament will favor as well, obviously.

4) you also realized dahis rerolled warr right? and nitrana rolled shaman, but got f***ed over by pandemic for it. and now he have no choice but to play back his rogue, only to get benched. thats #1 rogue for you, btw. and theres many others who rerolled. those who stayed (like me, being a rogue for over 2years++ and still going) just cling onto the very little faith that we have for our class. either that, or we just dont want to let everything go and reroll.

5) you also know they are low right? and you only know they are better in 2v2/3v3 right? (just like rogues) so what the hell ur trying to prove right there captain obvious? that a rock is a rock?

look, im not saying rogues are completely useless. i know i excel fighting caster based groups. but thats just it. and thats provided my latency dont f*** me over when im getting screwed over by frost mages/non-noob-locks that coex/priests that knows damn well how to kite a rogue (yes kiting rogues with priest, funny right?) while spamming instants/hots. and you yourself know they only do fine in 3v3 or below (assumption taken based on what ur emphasizing on), which is totally contradicting the point that im putting out: rogues suck in 5v5/high end arena.

TBC rogues do actually got a fresh restart in their class position. at some point i also admit its OVERPOWERED. but once high end arena kicks in with everyone over400+ resil, and the fact that rogues rely deeply on crits. they basically die off, along with hunters.

so captain obvious, less shooting urself in the foot now?

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Added on September 11, 2007, 11:31 pmthats one hunter.

im talking bout the majority

and you noticed that the world's best hunter (judging from ratings in ALL his arena teams, being basically #1 in 2v2/3v3/5v5 in his battlegroup constantly, and also attended quite a number of tournaments himself) hamchook is MM. and ultilizes in a very unique mana drain tactic with a scorpid that so MANY hunters followed his path.

MM hunters > surv for the most part because of silencing shot/better viper sting and multishot. that alone is more than enough to be favored over surv in most teams. silencing shot + priest silence (if you have s.priest) + mage CS + lock pet silence etc etc chained is a very brutal spell lockdown for any healer to coup with.

survial simply only offer DPS, that is VERY crit reliant, and resilience is built to counter crit.

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Added on September 11, 2007, 11:34 pmhi captain obvious on a wheelchair, less obvious and more paragraph will ya? and why isnt this thread closed when you said it is? more self shooting alright?

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Added on September 11, 2007, 11:35 pmomg less stealing my thunder prz!

btw thats a nice quote, <3.

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Added on September 11, 2007, 11:42 pmLOL WHATS THIS?! UR BRO POSTING?! OMG SARCASTIC MORE WILL YA? lol

kotoko tracks > ur face, yes, you suck, and so is your posts, and your face

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Added on September 11, 2007, 11:43 pmMEWE MEWEWMEMWMEMEWM LLOOLOLOL

and no, illidrama.com > elitisjerks.com f***yocouch

/beatsmoreondeadhorse.

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Added on September 11, 2007, 11:45 pmgood one, but as sets/ray mentioned, its lacking and hence forth:

FAIL

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 11 2007, 11:45 PM

1) first off:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.x...ale&n=Quazacolt

with about 140ratings additional than my 5v5, my 3v3 only lose 10 arena points than my 5v5, but getting plague by class matrix and rock paper scissors factor, 5v5 is definitely a LOT easier to play AND gain ratings(and ultimately arena points) at the same time.

oh quote: it still wont generate more points if ur 5v5 rating is lower than 3v3 or even 2v2,sorry
im 140 points, and YES LOWER than my 3v3, oops, i got 10 more arena points than 3v3. wtf? BLASPHEMY?!?!?!?!

while you dont need a buttload of arena points to get full set arena gears and all, but the more points you have, the bette rur chance for you to end a high rank at the end of the season. you cant possibly be decked out right at the start

and if you refered to my armory link, im pretty decently geared thank you. but thats me, what about my teammates? my guildies? or other people that rerolled, started mid-season? tell em to qqmore l2p? pretty sure there are other players out there that actually require the high AP/week, be it reroll, or respeccing different spec (eg:druids) and so on, they do exist.

sure, you cant 5 good teammates and have the best possible lineup (paladin/warrior/warlock/priest/x). but letme give you this comparison:
getting 4monkeys + you and lose 10 games/week in 5v5, or getting 2 actually good players, to actually win in 3v3, im sure, getting 4 monkeys are much MUCH easier.

2) point is simple, that is merely one bg, and its a top bg at that. and thats where most, if not ALL of the top roguesgathered. outside of that bg, rogues that end up with high rankings in 3v3 needless to say 5v5 is so few or even non-existant.

and to ur beloved 4dps setup:
http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/World-of-Min...al-Goes-Insane/
http://www.radikalnoise.com/2007/09/my-trip-to-7-11.html (for some lols)

just FYI, noktyn is actually runnin a 4dps setup, and another FYI, nitrana is still on the bench. and guess who their 4dps setup is with? nope, no rogue.
www.wowarmory.com
^ look it up if you dont believe

A) yea, try cast cyclone as a single healer where NO ONE will silence/interrupt you. and when ur in bear, you cant heal, and ur the only healer. really, smart, right? and whats to stop OTHER team from cycloning ur druid? lol?
B) lol wait, you can only counterspell a GOOD druid, you meant bad druid... right? ROFL and bear in mind, hots take time, AND can be dispelled, why dont you have time to dispel hots? elaborate more? 1-1.5seconds gcd isnt hard if ur team have elem shams (which doesnt heals), resto shams or priests for mass dispels/instant dispels. oh, felpuppies find magics particularly tasty too, not to mention mages that could probably use some heals.

and dont forget to list down:
plate, BOP, cleanse that works on everything cept curses.

and druids are also susceptible to cot (you think JUST hots can last you through everything? how naive. oh yea, cyclone apparently dont need cast time?) fear, counterspell (same case for COT), silence (same case for COT) and blah blah blah (lolwut?)

and here you are, also talking, way to contradict urself? it MAY or MAY NOT stop a 4dps killing ur warrior, but it sure as hell will buy time and usually enough time, for his team to counter. by either taking one of the 4dps team along with him to the grave, if that makes the healer, that said team is in for some trouble.

3) and here you are being captain obvious and shooting urself in the foot (yet again), stop beating the dead horse please?

4) so... they posting on their blogs/websites etc on the reasons they reroll to another class (at least the names ive mentioned which is dahis/nitrana) means we dunno right? (im sure you have some wierd perception in regards to this but ill leave it at that) and why bring in ming to the picture? hugging his epeens already? not to mention being irrelevant.

5) and anywhere in my post mentioning druids being shitty healers? i bet not. so now ur putting words into my mouth?

and no, playing mutilate rogue isnt any harder than playing combat/hemo rogues. (hard to believe right?)
and no, if you've ever been researching rogues (rogue forums/spreadsheet simulations), its not just a minor 50 dmg increase, its give or take 100-300 dmg increase (assuming ur target is 300-400 resil), and any targets less than the resilience i quote, will have a much higher dmg increase.
run your research/spreadsheets nextime before you try to talk shit ok?

that said, i will be having s3 shiv instead of shanker next season, reason for that is because im i need quicker crippling poisons and mongoose proc, which i am willing to ditch the dmg increase. (my current shanker is weapon chain equipped instead of mongoose, despite what stupid armory says, which is also another reason why shanker > shiv)
another FYI, one of my high dmg source is also from my trinket cb muti, and its also a good source of burst even on high resil target. on 0 resil targets it can hit for around 4-5k, on post 400 resil targets it can hit between 1.5-3k. should i have a shiv instead of a shanker, i can guarantee you ill be losing perhaps 300-700++ of said burst dmg.

so for you to make a remark like this, is really... lol. back in your face.

and no, they are definitely not doing fine, at least when compared to the top 4 classes. for you to even say that means you have a severe lack of understanding of the situation.

also, have you been hit by a skillherald warrior before? and yes, hit, not crit. sure, they do need crits too, but they sure as hell can live without it, while classes like hunters and rogues, being unable to crit is basically laughing stock. (lol hemo)
and no, there is no rogue spec that dont rely on crit, if you even dare bring in combat spec, ill first LOL at you for that. a ss crit/white crit will always be a ton of help compared to non-crits. and arush is only a 15 sec burst. if that said 15 sec burst you cant kill the target, ur gonna be a joke (look at the 2v2 with xecks vs neilyo, i lol'ed at the dps)

and simply stating that 4dps setup is the only way for rogues are already contradicting urself that they are doing fine. as rogues are restricted to a particular team setup to actually work.

as for the crying part, i can assure you, im pretty much doing fine. not particularly successful, but definitely not a failure enough to cry. if you consider this crying, i would suggest that you start sending mails/pms to all the top rogues in bg9 to tell them to stop crying, for their suggestions/opinions/critisms etc being tossed around by FAR exceeds mine. dont forget to letme know the result, i wanna see their response.

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Added on September 12, 2007, 12:09 pm

lolwut?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 12 2007, 12:09 PM

i concur

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Added on September 12, 2007, 2:50 pmand the entire rogue community = xecks right?
its like saying warriors arent overpowered when jared "donut-muncher-noktyn" got owned by rogues in arenas/duels (yes, many videos recorded just to laugh at the chubby)
or when a warlock got wtfpwned by a rogue that clearly outskilled the b**** and claim locks are not overpowered (if you agree to this please do urself, god, and everyone on lyn WoW forum a favor and shoot urself in the face now)
or when rogues like xecks/nitrana etc, or hunters like hamchook actually stands out and claim rogues are fine l2p.

look at how many warriors/priests/paladins/warlocks stand out, as opposed to the handful of rogues/hunters. thats the main point of issue right here.

read clearly what ive posted in my post, thoroughly. but since ur prolly lazy like almost everybody else, heres some spoonfeeding from ur own quote:


xecks himself also expressed his suggestions/concerns over rogue forums, and blogs, so again, your point?

=edit=
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.x...ondrius&n=Xecks
O SHI-

I OWN XECKS ON 3V3??!?!?!WHATTTTTTTT
^ lol

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 12 2007, 03:07 PM

damn straight lol

mine bigger!