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 Insurance Talk V7!, Your one stop Insurance Discussion

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JIUHWEI
post May 24 2024, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ May 24 2024, 08:05 AM)
Just asking, ...can one set auto billing through the bank account where it will auto deduct from the bank account?

I think credit card can.
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Yes. You can.
Via auto debit from your debit card
Via standing instruction pun boleh. However, with this option, once the amount changes and doesn't match, it will fail to charge. Then you'll have to call your bank, change it, etc.

Credit card mesti boleh, but subject to available limits la.
There are 4 charging attempts each month, so once the credit is available, it will attempt to charge.
After 4 attempts also fail, the client will need to make manual payment before the grace period expires. Usually 30-days from due date.
JIUHWEI
post May 24 2024, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(bogletails @ May 24 2024, 08:10 AM)
I have tried those financial health check on insurance website. Of course their agenda is to tell me everything not enough and need more coverage, that's how they make money isn't it. Honestly even if I put 100k for life, critical illness and personal accident, I still think that 100k is nothing, but the premium is going to be extra 70-80%.
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Until we conduct a financial health check in person with just about anyone here, noone can tell you for sure la bro.
I actually just met with someone at New Ocean World, PJ yesterday. Guy came in wanting to buy a big Life Insurance policy.
At the end, langsung no need for it. What is the intention for the money? Dunno. Who is it for? No idea also.
My nature is to then question him loh, where or who gave you this idea?
End up it was his mom that is pushing him to buy, because suddenly it is a hot topic within the family after the father's recent passing.
Now he is arranging for me to meet with his mom... T__T

Unless you feel that insurance agents like me is just telling you to hurry up and buy...
and personal insurance is like buying a gameboy then... you do you loh. Nobody say is wrong also kan?
No medals to give also
Can live without gameboy kan? Can, but it's good to have.
Can live without insurance also kan? Can, but it's pretty good to have.

No reason for anyone here to change your mind, really.
It's your life.
None of us need to live with the consequences after the fact also.

You do you bro.
JIUHWEI
post May 24 2024, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 24 2024, 11:52 AM)
Ask yourself do you need those coverage? I learnt this from Singaporean financial blogger. If you can generate yourself say SGD100k p.a of free money every year, do you still need insurance which have to obey all their terms and conditions. Yes some of them are at that level. That's why they remove away l life, critical illness insurance and only have medical insurance. Their words it's better to continue received payout every year than one time payment.

Another thing I learned from them: never ask a barber if you need a haircut for obvious reasons.
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Maybe you should talk to a stylist?
JIUHWEI
post May 26 2024, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(jsonting @ May 26 2024, 04:02 PM)
And your assumption that agents aren't proficient in investing is why you can't comprehend with some sound and wiser advises i see in this forum.
As someone who's proficient and invested in many instruments that probably you didn't even understand, i can tell you the best investment return will always be from insurance, if you can understand what i mean.

Like i said 
even the richest people in the world leverage on insurance, because that's the smart way.
so are you smarter than these people?
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No, he's not.
But the financial bloggers that he follows are apparently superior to just about anybody.
Second to Jesus I guess...
JIUHWEI
post May 27 2024, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ May 27 2024, 02:07 PM)
Bruh my son just 5 years old. I dont expect to keep tied to 1 single policy/company until his retirement age.

I'm thinking when insurer ask for premium hike i would survey for other companies that gives similar or better protection at the similar price, take whichever cheaper.
As long as no serious illnessess that nrw company may reject right?
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Medical rate hike is not a company-specific thing la bro.

But yes, you're right about qualifying with health first.
JIUHWEI
post May 29 2024, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ May 28 2024, 05:33 PM)
Standalone is not cheaper to hv than ilp?

BTW, I am not comparing which is cheaper all these while as it had been obvious that standalone is cheaper.
I just wanted to know the quantum of rate of increase between these 2 . Will standalone hv steeper increases than ilp due to standalone does not hv forced saving that can be used in future.
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No lah. Semua kena at the same rate.

Let's say the increase is 10%.
Standalone premium will naik 10%, while ILP COI will naik 10%.

Actually.. why is the standalone vs ILP discussion still ongoing?

Apple is apple, orange is orange la.
There's no comparison because they are different.

Do we need medical insurance?
If your answer is "yes" then:
Buy standalone - good.
Buy ILP - also good.
To each their own preferences according to all the good attempts at defining it prior to this post.

What is there to debate?
If the RM 300 saved in annual premiums will make or break your "investments"...
You are gambling, not investing.
^^ My personal opinion la.

This post has been edited by JIUHWEI: May 29 2024, 10:09 AM
JIUHWEI
post May 29 2024, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ May 29 2024, 10:30 AM)
There is actually no debate about standalone ot ILP.
Both are of different products. Both caters fir different needs.

If there is any posting by me that perceived to be comparing ilp and standalone other than comparing the quantum of rate of increase between them. Then I am sorry.

I just wanted to know will there be steeper premium repricing of standalone when compared to ilp, especially after age 55 ?

I expected it to be quick and simple answers, ...like yes or no.
BTW, the one you just posted (as highlighted) is a simple answers.
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Okay, I see how my responding to your post appeared as if I am specifically calling you out on the comparison.
I'm not.

I saw your question immediately and gave you a straight answer first.

I'm sorry too, I should be more alert about how my response will appear. console.gif
JIUHWEI
post May 30 2024, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 29 2024, 11:31 AM)

Bro, maybe you too much money but for me wrong way to go about it. This is my real life story.

I can hand over free RM300 to the banks every few months but instead I didn't. I keep the RM300 for myself and invest it. All by watching my cost and yes this have been going for almost 10 years already. I found a legal way to bypass giving the banks free RM300. This saves me at least minimum RM10k already.

For me, I quote a youtuber, watch your cent and the dollars will take care of themselves. I am train to always watch the cost because of this quote, "Small holes can sink a mighty ship. Never underestimate the smell holes. Fees and cost matter" This quote I think I got from Jack Bogle/or those ETF forums when I first came across it. That's why I am very sensitive to cost and fees.
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You think everybody started off with money except for you meh...
This thread is Insurance Talk, yet you keep barking about investments...
Lari topik bro....

Right, having a budget and sticking to it is never the right way to go about anything.
Pinching and holding onto every cent that you can is the path to life, liberty, and ultimately, "financial freedom". FI/RE spirit kan?
Xyah keje <<< Life Goals. Totally. brows.gif

What do I know, right? I'm just a Life Planner, aka insurance agent, gunning for "your money" right?

Youtube, blogs, forums, are totally legit sources of information too.
No doubts about it bro.

Until you stand up and look over your fences for once, you'll never see the world bro.
And I wish you do so you can see all the life going on as opposed to always feeling surrounded by hounds trying to suck "your money".
If that's the case, the hounds early early also die of hunger already kan?

Not wrong to 节流
But what you doing about 开源?

For me, it's very simple. And I intend to keep it simple.
Where your heart is, that's where your money will go.
Totally not saying anything that you do with your money is wrong, but that's just where your heart is at the moment.
Doesn't make it wrong for other people to want the features and benefits that come with ILP, right?
Sure, you can definitely make better returns elsewhere. But does that make it a wrong decision? Who died and made you the authority?
So much so that you have to demonize people like @lifebalance, @holocene, myself, and just about anyone on this forum for suggesting ILP products? (Which it's clear you super lari topik all the time) Dunno what your intention is here, but you do you loh.
And seriously nobody here is against the potential returns from local and foreign markets.
Just that this topic is about insurance. Not the topic for cheapest medical insurance.
ILP and want to only pay the minimum to get the plan started, confirm your fund value teruk lah bro.

JIUHWEI
post May 30 2024, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(wex99 @ May 29 2024, 09:30 PM)
Thanks for the clarification...
Actually 1 month before i was offered this upgrade, my existing plan was subjected to additional insurance charge (due to rising medical cost) which i have just accepted to top up on monthly basis (coverage remains unchanged).

Since i have just accepted the insurance charge, is it possible for me to revert back to previous premium before insurance charge? Instead i enroll to this upgrade? Will this affect the existing benefits etc?
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Internal circular clarified that should you choose to upgrade to the new GIO plan, the most recent hike in premiums will be waived, and your new effective premiums will follow the existing premiums + the additional premiums stated in the GIO offer. thumbsup.gif
JIUHWEI
post May 30 2024, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(wex99 @ May 30 2024, 10:32 PM)
But if based on the guarantee offer letter to upgrade to A-Plus Health 2, it was reflected that the revised premium has factored in the additional insurance charge after my topped up, hence it feels like there is sudden spike in my premium contribution significantly…no doubt the upgrade is beneficial, but it is at significant cost to be incurred at my end.
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It's an offer being offered to you.
You still have the ultimate decision to take it up or not take it up.

I took it up for myself, my wife, and my kid for these reasons:

1. unlimited admission days.
2. up to 365 days of post-hospitalization
3. RM 500 annual Health Screening benefit, stackable up to 2 years.


JIUHWEI
post May 31 2024, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(wex99 @ May 30 2024, 10:32 PM)
But if based on the guarantee offer letter to upgrade to A-Plus Health 2, it was reflected that the revised premium has factored in the additional insurance charge after my topped up, hence it feels like there is sudden spike in my premium contribution significantly…no doubt the upgrade is beneficial, but it is at significant cost to be incurred at my end.
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Seek clarification from your writing/servicing Life Planner on the premiums adjustment ya.
JIUHWEI
post Jun 3 2024, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Jun 3 2024, 10:49 AM)
Timing issue not to your advantage. I think so happen your anniversary is earlier, maybe April?

Whereas someone else’s could be in August for example. So they would upgrade already, they will not get the repricing letter because it’s due in August.

That is why I explained earlier that you will be able to reduce the premium later due to your timing issue. There is no solution around this except to accept the offer then go back to aia to reduce the premium. It’s really hard to explain in words on the forum. smile.gif

Anyway you have time to sort it out till end of this month. Aia allowing it until end of this month if not mistaken
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Betul. thumbsup.gif
JIUHWEI
post Jun 4 2024, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(zhengdek @ Jun 4 2024, 01:04 PM)
u do aia loan?
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Yes bro, Fixed rate residential & commercial loans
JIUHWEI
post Jun 5 2024, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Jun 4 2024, 03:27 PM)
I used to work in BNM, is why I am familiar, to a certain extent, about this subject matter. A better plan layout to spur competition for the industry is to phase out ILP and develop the yearly renewable term market. Disclose claim/profit ratios, and standardise/simplify YRT contract terms. The most competitive market out there is employee benefit. We need the competition we see in EB in the consumer space
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"Familiar, but only to a certain extent" about a subject matter... So are you actually familiar with it?
Yet used to work in BNM ... as what exactly?
Which part of YRT terms are still too complicated or not standardized enough? What is there left to be "standardized"?
By competition, do you mean price point?

What's the logic to phase out ILP?
The portfolio dying meh? Or not profitable enough?

Every insurer in the world are being audited every single year bro.
And part of the audit process is to disclose all their books, all their assets, everything.
And BNM regulates every insurance company in Malaysia. Since you "used to work in BNM", are you saying you actually have reason to be concerned?
If yes, tell us exactly why. This I think is your duty to the Malaysian people as a patriot.

Which part of the books can be hidden or left out of the audit process? <<< This one I actually want to know, in my personal capacity.

EB is cheap, but the contract 1 year only mah. Most people will probably live for another year.
Your individual Life contract is to ages 60 - 100 leh. Can't say the same about most people right?
You read some brochures and see the difference in premiums, and decided EB is more competitive ka?
If I am wrong, pray tell, what was your thought process that led to you conclude "We need the competition we see in EB in the consumer space".

This post has been edited by JIUHWEI: Jun 5 2024, 01:21 PM
JIUHWEI
post Jun 6 2024, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Jun 6 2024, 03:26 PM)
I'll start with your EB question. The measure I use to gauge competitiveness: EB vs IL cost of insurance claims ratios, and on a bouquet basis (HSI, CI, Death/ADB, PA, others) - all ages, all coverage amounts & types, the margin is much lower for EB. E.g. It might be 75%/ 80% for EB whereas it might be half (50%) for IL. And on top of the profit margin padding in IL COI, you have unallocated premium charges, yearly policy fees, fund management charges to consider when purchasing IL. This is not uncommon knowledge. Its natural as EB is negotiated by brokers who can hawk the clients' historical experience to the highest bidder (cheapest price).

As for why phase IL out, you asked so I'm going to answer and I hope this post doesn't get taken down. Putting aside the high charges issue, IL's main issue in my opinion is the expectation it has placed on consumers (IL policyholders) to achieve a certain rate of investment return to ensure the policy is sustainable till end of term and that meets the other reasonable expectations of policyholders (e.g. savings element after meeting all ouflow charges till end of policy term). The issue is that this expectation has never been clearly communicated to policyholders. Customers do not know the minimum rate of yearly investment return needed to achieve the above objectives and the insurer's reasonable expectations of the IL policy's yearly investment return rate. The other main issue is that IL is usually sold by agents with the default setting of equity funds. Which in zaman dahulu kala, circa 2010, version had embedded 9% yearly return rates in their pricing. This rate has proven to be illusory judging by past KLCI (including dividends) performance and also the IL equity funds performances. If only IL policies were sold assuming 0% yearly investment return rates. This would be better, and fairer, because it gives consumers a clear eyed view of what is expected of him/her.

EY, KPMG and all other auditors do not audit for consumer fairness in every aspect of the insurer's operations in their signing off of financial statements . It is a true and fair view of financial statements audit based on compliance to audit standards and certain BNM regulations and even in that limited scope, I can show you how consumer fairness is not accounted for. Take your IL funds. IL funds are required to be audited on annual basis. Did you know that there are many insurers out there not reserving for 8% investment tax on unrealised gains. Accounting standards don't require this to be done. However, fairness, which is a much broader principle/consideration and for a product which is priced and traded daily, would require that reserves for tax on unrealised gains be set up to treat all customers fairly, across all time lines and not create a musical chairs situation with the last group of policyholders having to saddle this unrealised tax when those assets are liquidated. As for BNM, BNM does not do "audits" per se but does its own checks/reviews and it does not cover every aspect of an insurance company either and BNM has failed in many instances as well. The task of auditing, putting controls and checking controls for effectiveness lies with the respective line departments and their oversight departments such as compliance, risk management, audit.

This is not the only area regarding fairness where financial auditors, BNM have failed. GELM's estate issue is one example. Link below, if you wish to know more.

GELM Estate Issue

As for YRT standardisation, there are plenty of areas. The industry does not have a minimum basic standard contract with same wording, operationalisation and coverage for the main life types (e.g. accident, CI, HSI). Terms like "reasonable and customary charges", "medically necessary", "pre-existing condition" have many operational issues including disclosure/transparency which haven't been sorted out. Every insurer might have similar wordings but is operationalized differently. What is reasonable/customary for one insurer might not be so for others. For CI, come up with a basic product that has been tested with medical professionals, designed to ensure that it truly captures all the truly financially debilitating illnesses  and at the various necessary stages. Lot of medical professionals complain that CI covers things that shouldn't be covered as much and other sthat should be covered are not. As for HSI, push for high deductibles. In fact I think should ban no deductible policies and only sell min RM 5k deductible. The main issue for HSI is not inflation but a loss of insurance value proposition. Insurance can only work in low frequency and high severity setups. We have to many low severity, high frequency hospitalisation claims (RM 5k below). I suspect it is contributed mostly by dengue, respiratory illnesses that require hospitalisation for antibiotic shots. For the min 5K deductible policies, make sure there is no yearly, annual and inner limits, and it covers all claims, including pre hospitalisation, post hospitalisation, daycare etc. Right now, there is a lot of cross selling points between CI and HSI. This is cause U can tell consumers HSI doesn't cover expensive medication so have to take CI and there will be additional financial burdens. Find a way, if you decide to sell them together, that ensures that the design is comprehensive enough that consumers really do not have to fear being financially worse off due to disease/hospitalization.

I used to work in the Insurance/Takaful Supervision & Consumer/Market Conduct Department as an insurance analyst/supervisor
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So, after typing all that, you beh song is because ILP exposes the insured to market risks?

And the nature of market risks being when interest rates are high, it takes less from the pot; and when interest rates are low, it takes more from the pot... The expectation from the consumer, and in this instance, the insured, is really just to ensure that the box is fed kan?
With this in mind, basically the expectation is for the insured to make hay when the sun shines... is an unfair practice?
The Life really is unfair, NOW that you've said it. thumbup.gif

It's an insurance policy, provided by an insurance company, for the masses.
I'm glad we agree on at least one thing, which is deductibles being the way forward.
Will we see a comeback for co-insurance (already making its way back), inner limits? I'm guessing yes.
But that's a macro view that you have, which as a consumer, I want to know how an insurance policy can benefit me without compromising for my lifestyle needs.
The insurance companies can crash and burn for all I care, as long as it doesn't affect my budgets as a consumer.

There is a chinese idiom - 道高一尺,魔高一丈 <<< google it if you will.
It basically means whatever you do or whatever preventive measure you put up, there will be a way to use and abuse it.

In short,
medical insurance guarantees the service providers that they will be paid, just render the services to me within the legal framework.
A CI insurance guarantees me the income that I need in order to sustain my living expenditures over some time.

I dunno if it is comprehensive enough for your taste la, but I sell based on calculated needs, or otherwise known as needs-based selling.
Yes, of course there is the risk profile that some may want to bring up with regard to ILP.
Have you had a chat with agents like me? Or any agents from my team?
Maybe you should spend some time with us and hopefully work with us too, either professionally or even as a client pun boleh.

I live in the real world la bro. I'm not John Connor or someone with a messiah complex trying to save the world from whatever it is.

Maybe bring your issue up with your former employer, or your local MP is a more appropriate channel for your cause.
Trying to shore up support here.... I can tell you frankly you're wasting your time bro.
Your macro perspective gna fall on.... just the ground I guess.

JIUHWEI
post Jun 6 2024, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Jun 6 2024, 05:41 PM)
Btw, I haven't even touched on the other big issue. That of insurance companies being shadow bankers (fund managers) and not really insurance providers. Ironically, this was the case until IL got introduced. IL actually increased protection amounts but did it in a way that delivered poor consumer outcomes.

Participating products, the ones that contributed to issues like estate, were actually not for protection but an alternative to bank's FD
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Second hand car dealers, phone sellers also basically credit agencies mah.
They actually increased access to products that consumers can otherwise not be able to afford, but did it in a way that increased bankruptcies among consumers... Teruk kan?
Ah, go catch lah go.
What's your point bro?

Non-participating products like ILP also you x suka.
Participating products also you x suka.

Then you go and buy YRT products that you like so much loh.
Or you can set up Hafizmamak foundation, enlist all your family members as members. Register with ROS, then come to me, we set up an EB together for you macam mana? Boleh ka?
Since we so good friend kan, I buat briefing, siap bawak participating vendors, bagi discount/cash rebate vouchers, etc. Sampai you happy.
Can deal?
JIUHWEI
post Jun 6 2024, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(darkueki @ Jun 6 2024, 10:41 PM)
Male: 32, non smokers, my current CI only 35k, I currently survey for 300k coverage,  included early stage,  any plan suitable for me and what is premium mostly will cost?
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https://www.aia.com.my/en/our-products/heal...rity&filterTab=

On each product you can press compare on the bottom right corner too thumbsup.gif
Then proceed to compare among the products, learn about their pros and cons.

This post has been edited by JIUHWEI: Jun 6 2024, 10:54 PM
JIUHWEI
post Jun 14 2024, 07:43 AM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Jun 13 2024, 08:25 PM)
Dunno. I would say, think about it when there is some life stage changes.

Every 3 to 5 years maybe. The problem is reviewing insurance is a complicated process. It's not as intuitive as changing postpaid plan.
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Reviewing insurance doesn't need to be complicated sebenarnya.

It really depends how the person wants to pivot, like you mentioned, life stage changes; or new ventures, etc.

We want to be insuring assets and things with monetary interests, and just keep it that way, really.
The only real challenge, usually, is the fact finding process. The service provider needs to know what to ask for, and the client needs to also feel secure about disclosing his/her facts and figures, and their objectives or direction, etc.
JIUHWEI
post Jun 14 2024, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Jun 13 2024, 09:13 AM)
AIA vitality is first and foremost a marketing tie-up. It is a separate AIA entity that runs this program and they have the right to share your data with all the partner entities. This is another major red flag - I'm not sure if AIA vitality has a clause that allows policyholdes to opt out of the data sharing, if there isn't one it is a breach of BNM's policy on Management of Customer Information and Permitted Disclosure. They are selling your data and financing the rewards from the money they get from the partners. It was never really about reducing claims ratio and passing the savings to consumers. It is another money making machine AIA is trying to churn. If you truly wanted to pass the savings, just let AIA's actuarial do the product design and pricing and put it in the main contract policy benefits. Right now it is so confusing for the consumer. How many are actually aware that it is run by a separate entity?

Btw, as I've mentioned before life insurance is really a profitable business. It is a cash cow. Never been about passing savings to consumers or making them healthier
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Vitality is a service provider originating from Joberg, South Africa.

Yes, AIA Vitality does have the right to share your data to the partnering vendors, only with consent. Customers do have the option to opt out of this during application, during every change of insured's details, and during every touch points. Did you spend time actually looking at it?
Macam no loh, no wonder you still confused until today.
But even after this message, you also cannot see it for what it is wan lah.
You will still choose to be ignorant and confused.

Bankers have been selling our data IN BREACH OF BNM'S POLICY for years, in breach of their respective company's bye laws anyway. Go chase la, go.
Maybe if you actually spent time to read through and understand how the policies and programs such as Vitality works, you can find clarity, rather than being angry all the time feeling like a victim, all due to your own ignorance and victim mentality. This is not the way to live la bro... At least I would have died being choked out by my own ignorance.

Of course Life Insurance or just about any business needs to be a profitable business la bro.
If the company not making money, office building looks like lacking maintenance, agents and staff also selekeh wan, are you gna buy from such a company? Yes, sebab that will give you confidence of its sustainability? No profit kan?

Come out of your text books and come and live in the real world bro.

AIA Vitality is a fantastic program, and it is done in such a way that it is also profitable too.
Yet, in front of you, you can only see how it is all evil and bad, coming for "your money".
How you live like that bro?
Your whole world coming out to get you leh
Come and live in my world, I welcome you at any time.
JIUHWEI
post Jun 14 2024, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(hksgmy @ Jun 14 2024, 07:59 AM)
Well, when we were on a property buying spree about 10 years ago (before all the rules about additional taxes etc came in - wife and I are based in Singapore and Australia), we took out mortgage insurance for some of the properties (the ones with a higher value) but because later, we ended up paying off the properties by the time they TOP (using progressive payment schemes), we stopped buying mortgage insurance.

You are right. They did ask to see our financials and it was very thorough, including the health check up.
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Yes, a Financial Health Check will easily show how much of coverage we need, or if we need it at all.

And yes, if we don't need it, why buy leh?

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