So in previous post, some argued that because AIA version has maturity benefit hence, cannot be compared equivalently. I agree because having cash value is very expensive benefit. They are some people who wants cash value. it's a supply and demand thing. you can say why AIA come up with it, but if no one wants it, AIA is not stupid enough to introduce it as well. You will be surprised how many people i talk to actually will be asking, "sooo... if i pay for 20 years at the end, i get nothing in the end???" of course there's also responsibility from agent and the insurance companies to educate, so i'm not purely blaming the consumers as well.

as for direct proof, i have none since i'm not an agent. can't do quotation but i went to Prudential's website to search. for the purpose of the discussion on this forum and for other readers.

Example

PDF file of the cost

if you refer to the PDF file for the cost of insurance, age 30, non-smoker, it's RM1.15 per 1000 sum assured. so this means that if one were to buy 500k sum assured, the COI deducted yearly is only RM575. if you buy 1million, it's only RM1150. How this will translate to premium, i can't answer. I am not able to prove malaysia is cheaper but i want to specify that it's really not as expensive as one would think either. is it a direct comparison? not really, but it's fairer comparison then the AIA example shown because it has the early/intermediate condition, late condition and also multi claim. there are still other differences but i have removed the most expensive benefit which is the "cash value".

of course, this is a rider, there will be other cost associated because they have to buy a basic plan, but if you already have a basic plan then indeed, the additional cost of insurance (COI) you will incur is as stated. then maybe the additional premium needed is not as high as well. please note COI and premium is not the same.

NOTE: i'm in no way condoning or supporting prudential, each of the big 3 players have their strength and weaknesses, but so happen their website is convenient for discussion. i also need to note, general public dont know that having cash value is a very expensive benefit

but i really dont want someone to drive 20km to buy vegetable to save RM5 either.

I really wish there was a way to communicate the true nature of insurance to consumers and convince them of it. That it is something to pay for with no expectation of return other than when making a claim.

This i want to defend. And i want to defend hard. Why is it ridiculous? Please elaborate.

How is a programme that help motivate their customer to live healthier ridiculous, saddening and maddening?

I have aia vitality. So does my brother and sister in law who get it for free from their employer.

It's optional anyway, if customer does not want it, they can just dont subscribe.

I googled, and this is some findings from RGA (prominent reinsurer) about such wellness programme by insurers around the world.

read together

I havent finished reading it but the conclusion is "In addition to better health, wellness programs also promote a healthier pool of policyholders, who are less likely to make claims in the future, enabling insurers to pass the savings back to policyholders through discounted premiums or program rewards. In other words, for both insurer and insured, the case for wellness remains strong."

I personally benefited from aia vitality. From being an idiot for who does not exercise, i am now exercising 3 to 5 times a week. Aia vitality has helped changed my behaviour. Of course i have to want it but it plays a role as a catalyst.

Is it a perfect programme? NO. Is AIA doing out of pure altruism? NO. They are for profit company.

But can customer also get benefit from this? YES.

It is a very simple and short answer. You are not really a purely insurance value proposition but a hybrid which includes a behavioural modification  component.

Just to steelman your position, putting aside any arguments as to the efficacy of the program, I have no qualms with consumers being provided a choice. Provided the components are transparent and clearly separable. Right now, based on my understanding of AIA vitality, it is a combined and muddled proposition where the insurance component and behavioural modification & marketing components (e.g. free shopping vouchers) are combined.

Money is a great motivator … for both the insurer and the insured. With potential meaningful premium discounts if you make claims by staying healthy for longer, both parties win.

The marketing may be cliched and a bit tacky, but I agree with you, the benefits are tangible.

Note: I don’t have AIA Vitality. I know of it and I know what it is, but since I’m already motivated to do the right thing, I didn’t sign on for it (and my health insurers are of a different company), so I’m speaking purely from a 3rd party POV.

This 2 paragraphs contains alot of inaccuracy of how it works. As it is late, i will rest and reply in front of a laptop later... not sure when but later... But while waiting for reply, it is only fair that you truly understand how aia vitality works first.

Most importantly, you still havent answer why it is ridiculous, saddening and maddening when someone (does not have to be insurers) creating a programme that helps with the general public to get healthier. I will stop asking if you take back what you say.

If there are inaccuracies in my statements, please explain them and if I find them cogent, I will acknowledge it. I will await your reply

I've already explained why it is saddening and maddening - that the value proposition is muddled, that the value propositions are not transparent and separable - and this gives rise to fair treatment of financial consumer issues. Non vitality members subsidizing vitality members.

This i want to defend. And i want to defend hard. Why is it ridiculous? Please elaborate.

How is a programme that help motivate their customer to live healthier ridiculous, saddening and maddening?

I have aia vitality. So does my brother and sister in law who get it for free from their employer.

It's optional anyway, if customer does not want it, they can just dont subscribe.

I googled, and this is some findings from RGA (prominent reinsurer) about such wellness programme by insurers around the world.

read together

I havent finished reading it but the conclusion is "In addition to better health, wellness programs also promote a healthier pool of policyholders, who are less likely to make claims in the future, enabling insurers to pass the savings back to policyholders through discounted premiums or program rewards. In other words, for both insurer and insured, the case for wellness remains strong."

I personally benefited from aia vitality. From being an idiot for who does not exercise, i am now exercising 3 to 5 times a week. Aia vitality has helped changed my behaviour. Of course i have to want it but it plays a role as a catalyst.

Is it a perfect programme? NO. Is AIA doing out of pure altruism? NO. They are for profit company.

But can customer also get benefit from this? YES.

That’s why the only insurance I have is health insurance to the max. Whatever life insurance policies are the legacies my parents gave me. I am not adding to them.

If there are inaccuracies in my statements, please explain them and if I find them cogent, I will acknowledge it. I will await your reply

I've already explained why it is saddening and maddening - that the value proposition is muddled, that the value propositions are not transparent and separable - and this gives rise to fair treatment of financial consumer issues. Non vitality members subsidizing vitality members.

Vitality is a service provider originating from Joberg, South Africa.

Yes, AIA Vitality does have the right to share your data to the partnering vendors, only with consent. Customers do have the option to opt out of this during application, during every change of insured's details, and during every touch points. Did you spend time actually looking at it?
Macam no loh, no wonder you still confused until today.
But even after this message, you also cannot see it for what it is wan lah.
You will still choose to be ignorant and confused.

Bankers have been selling our data IN BREACH OF BNM'S POLICY for years, in breach of their respective company's bye laws anyway. Go chase la, go.
Maybe if you actually spent time to read through and understand how the policies and programs such as Vitality works, you can find clarity, rather than being angry all the time feeling like a victim, all due to your own ignorance and victim mentality. This is not the way to live la bro... At least I would have died being choked out by my own ignorance.

Of course Life Insurance or just about any business needs to be a profitable business la bro.
If the company not making money, office building looks like lacking maintenance, agents and staff also selekeh wan, are you gna buy from such a company? Yes, sebab that will give you confidence of its sustainability? No profit kan?

Come out of your text books and come and live in the real world bro.

AIA Vitality is a fantastic program, and it is done in such a way that it is also profitable too.
Yet, in front of you, you can only see how it is all evil and bad, coming for "your money".
How you live like that bro?
Your whole world coming out to get you leh
Come and live in my world, I welcome you at any time.

Interesting discussion, so out of curiosity, I googled and found some of these. These are just after a quick search, thus I believes other companies will have it stated in advance or in the open too
Looks like, it you don't want to share it, then don't buy or use it.

Interesting discussion, so out of curiosity, I googled and found some of these. These are just after a quick search, thus I believes other companies will have it stated in advance or in the open too
Looks like, it you don't want to share it, then don't buy or use it.

I'm glad you asked.
At policy application process, the customer has the right to decide if they want their details to either be shared with partnering vendors for promotions and marketing engagements, or not. I think this is very standard option around the world. Like I said, you cannot see yourself past being a victim.
You're not clarifying bro, you're alleging things that are not true in the way YOU see everything around you.
Then you DEMAND that others PROVE TO YOU that it isn't so.
You're a learned person, maybe a bit of researching skills or just simply ASKING is not beyond you kan?

Maybe you should show some evidence to non-vitality members SUBSIDIZING vitality members, how about that?
The Vitality program is integrated into products to the benefit of the insured, and somehow you managed to find a way to see how it is a terrible program.
Yes, the companies AIA and Vitality acknowledge that the program is not immune to abuse. And even the Vitality points are indeed audited for authenticity. You used to work as an analyst, in BNM, I believe an audit is not a foreign idea to you kan?
Maybe you should provide some evidence to back your allegations that non-vitality customers personal details are being shared to Vitality partner vendors, how about that? I think it's only natural kan?

If I don't participate into the Vitality program, would it make sense for me to still enjoy the benefits of the Vitality program?

I'm not alleging. I'm telling you so.
I would know sebab my customers are not calling me up to complaint about unsolicited promotions and marketing, because they opted out of it.
I also not getting them myself in my email.

Again, please provide some tangible evidence on your alleged cross subsidization.
The point of Vitality program is to incentivize customers to lead an active lifestyle.
Active lifestyles leads to overall better health for longer.
This in and on itself makes these customers "good risks".
Should they not be rewarded accordingly then?
Or should the non-vitality members enjoy the same benefits for not even wanting to participate in this program in the first place? IN FACT, since they are all in the same pool of funds, I believe with your argument, the non-vitality members are indirectly benefiting from these group of people who decided to act on preserving their health, kan?

Can you stop flooding the thread with unnecessary posting?

If you are so afraid of sharing personal data with companies, then may I suggest you to go live in a cave?

It's high time that the moderator take action, as this thread is derailing to a PDPA thread.

Again, please back your allegation.
Come, let's have some evidence for it?

But, the companies too had already stated that they may not be able to continue to provides us the service/product if we opt out of giving consent.
Unless the opt out does not impact their business of providing that product/service....like marketing of new products
For other areas or purposes, i think they can still shares our information

Aia vitality also has that opt out option to receives their marketing news?

Has anyone bought life/term takaful product?

How is the surplus distributed by default?

1. They send you a cheque
2. They bank into your account
3. They contra with your upcoming premium

I think like it said earlier, ... if one is not satisfied that the company will share the data, then can opt not to participate.

I believed the TnC should be available when one signed the contract to participate, like the info about sharing of dara that i found in the net.