So basically as of today closing, the loss is down to around RM 20mil..... After QR result out tomorrow and somehow the price higher than RM 7.20, so is the SBB a wise move?

I sense sacrasm.

Is okay. No problem.

Refer back to the first posting. This posting is to explore the risk in share buybacks.

Everyone can tell why share buyback is good.

The problem is, what if the share buyback is poorly executed/managed/abused?

Do refer post 1 and post 2. Esp look at how insane the share buyback was done on the 11th. The buy back was from 6.20 to 8.00. Which meant the stock flew just because of the buy back.

The table you referred to was a quick reference table. Don't you use one yourself? Many do. It's just a quick reference to know at what price, one would instantly know one's share is doing at a particular price.

As such, there is no conclusion that can be drawn from the table... unless Top Glove declares outright that they are done buying back shares for now.

Is Top Glove done buying back its shares?

No sarcasm here dun worry...

I’m not a pro to determine whether the SBB was executed well, I also dunno what’s the true purpose of the SBB, but you highlighted that the SBB made a paper loss at average RM 7.20, so from a normal trader view, if let’s say the share gain back and above the average SBB price, I dun see any problem with that....

No need to be pro or not la.

If buy back was supposed to be a form of rewarding shareholders, as a shareholder, dont you want the company to buyback the shares as cheap as possible? Or do you just want the company to sapu the share at whatever price available?

Think about that... That's the key.

Look at the examples highlighted in the second post.

26th Nov.. share already went up 20 sen.. but Top Glove decided for dunno what reason it needed to splash 10 million on share buybacks. Share already up... still buyback meh?

11th Sep. Stock opened 6.45. It fell to 6.15. Okay TG started buying back from 6.20. Okay what. Rational and logical decision. Right?

But TG on that day.. went gila. From 6.20, the buyback handbrake broke. Non stop. Sapu. Sapu. Sapu all. See what, sapu what. All the way to 8.00.

Need a pro to be the judge meh?

99 million was spend just like that on share buyback.

Just like that.

Be the judge lo..... If you own shares in TG, that's actually your money.

Well maybe they felt the price is undervalued during that time and just allocate the funds to sapu ? Mana tau kena COVID case then share price start to plunge... So continue to sapu after that....

Or maybe they realise their earlier mistake when they simply sapu, so after that they trimmed down the amount of SBB and spread it over more days....

Like I mentioned before, we dun know yet why TG doing all these SBB, maybe they’ll announce it tomorrow and we’ll know by then. Ultimately, as long as in the end the SBB average price is not in loss position then ok liao...of course as at today it’s still paper loss....

Wow. 2 simple examples given to you.

Okay.

Is always okay. Everyone have their right of opinion. I won't force you to change yours.

Have a good night.


And yea...my estimate is 3 billion profit for TG.

in order not to kena windfall tax, top glove agreed to buy share from EPF as EPF needs alot of money to give out to citizen.

just my guess

Focus is on how... how the share buybacks are conducted. If one is a share holder, isn't this more important?

EPF... delicate situation... Why did epf buy Top Glove shares in the first place? This action created a severe conflict of interest as Top Glove boss sits on epf advisory boss ( yea, from this perspective, say hello to Tropicana purchase of Top Glove shares)

Like Boon said one has to look at whether the share buybacks are a smart move.

Tech has been successful in deploying it but what one of the greatest destruction of capital happened to the oil majors as below:




Exxon has been so stubborn in defending their dividend and they were even willing to pause their contribution towards their employee retirement plans.


So one has to ask is the capital really deployed well enough so they don't repeat the mistakes of the oil majors and while Top Glove isn't anywhere near those mistakes yet but can they avoid do something similar.

This is a good read too!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/stock-buybacks...now-11607185864

FGV last traded today at RM1.27, down 72.1 percent from its RM4.55 IPO price.
https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/554410

Need not look far for capital destruction. rumours said, more glc/plc privatization is in the pipeline before ge15.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 9 2020, 01:06 AM

TGs cash flow from its latest QR...


It has promised to pay a special dividend amounting to 1.3 billion.

Pretty suggestive on why no buybacks lately.

Which also could explain why Tropicana got itself into buying TG.

Thank you

Personally I am for it in places where there are cap gains tax as long as it is responsible buybacks.

GS had a good research piece on it from last year.

https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/pages...ties/report.pdf

I bet someone from TG is reading this thread
probably have cascade to uncle Lim

Please let us know if they did reach out to you

This post has been edited by yehlai: Dec 11 2020, 01:12 AM

Yup.. that's the key word isn't it?

We all know from theory that buybacks is good but it could go badly wrong if the buybacks is badly managed ... where in Top Glove we saw ....

Buying recklessly ... you cannot have the buyback do what as highlight in the 2nd post. Buying back from 6.20 all the way up to 8.00 simply cannot be justifiable by any means... TG splashed 99 million ringgit on that day.

and buy spending too much on buyback.... the strain will be there on its cash flow.

Again we saw that in TG.



All in ... this will be a good case study.... so that the next time we see a company doing buybacks, it's best not to assume it will be good for the stock.


(will read that link later... thks!)

It''s looking so rather clear.... he is way too obsessed with being no.1 . Way too determined trying to be a bigger stock than Maybank...

To be bigger than Maybank... you need to beat Maybank's market cap....

and what have we seen?

1. He used share buyback.... his 1.2 Billion war chest .... was literally gone just like that...
2. His position in EPF ... which meant there was conflict of interest, esp if EPF went on a buying spree of TG. And yes, EPF went in aggressively until lately....
3. His position as chairman in Tropicana .... he got Tropicana, a property stock to spent 78 millions buying TG shares....
4. Just yesterday, it was disclosed, the boss used his company, Top Fortress Ventures to buy shares in TG. Some of the directors joined the buying (but relatively small buyng)

Doesn't the boss appear to be possessed or what?

This is the stock market we are talking about. If the company is worth its weight in gold, there is no need for all this, right?

Just imagine ... current proposed dividend due xmas eve was 1.3 billion... and if the boss did not splashed the money unnecessary on these share buybacks... the boss could have given a dividend of 2.5 billion!!! Yeah... and then, there was a 2 billion plus investment in the money market fund. Why need to bother with such trivial stuff? I wonder if the boss is badly advised or what? Just imagine... throw this 2 billion plus as dividend.... ooo lalal... we could have seen Top Glove giving a record quarterly dividend of 4.5 billion back to shareholders......

think about that....


the stock could easily have traded past 20 bucks now... yup right this very moment.

... no need all these share buybacks.




yup.... think about that...



and sadly what do we have now? The boss is looking desperate to defend his share price... his integrity is put into question ....

TG want to be listed in HKSE
probably this is the prelude for his next move
once it's listed there this 1-2 billion will be like small change easy peasy money flow back to his pocket

This post has been edited by yehlai: Dec 11 2020, 12:27 PM

Yeah... he wants to be listed on hkex.

But its already listed in Spore. Not enough? Baffling.

For me, it just goes to say he's way too over ambitious. Wanting this and that when his company hits extreme richness.

This was out yesterday. Felt more like downgrades given...

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/node/545353?...Tv2zsYUDv68jOrI

Now his company was hit by us CBP.. and then his workers got hit badly with the c19.. One of the reason was crammed up and unhealthy living condition (how would it effect its CBP case?)... in which, some will ask, if the boss wasn't so possessed with the company share price, perhaps he should have focused more time in this issue. Now the word is TG is mistreating its foreign labor stuff.

Was the frenzy buying of TG shares worth it?

Math was easy. Add the money used in the buyback, the money stashed in dunno what money market fund, TG could have rewarded its shareholders with a very seductive dividend totalling more than 4 billion.

That alone is way too sexy. Which would have send the stock to the moon.

No need for any share buyback.

No questioning of his integrity.

This post has been edited by Boon3: Dec 11 2020, 12:49 PM

OMG.

ESG weighting on TP.

How come SPMX suffered worse than TG today?

maybe someone who gave the share buy back idea scare will get margin call if the share price keep failing?