Hi all,

Would like to get some advice. This is for my wife. She’s working as sales in 1 of local bank in Malaysia. Been working there for the past 6 years. She’s already permanent staff. One extra piece of information, my wife is now pregnant and due to deliver in mid-October.

Basically she has to meet 70% of sales target in order to avoid PIP. She already failed to meet this target back in Jan and Feb. For March and April, there’s no need to hit the target due to Covid 19. So May is the final months for her in order to hit this target (she will need to hit the target in June as well in order to exit PIP).

Her direct manager is supportive but there’s not much he can do. If my wife can’t hit the target this month, then HR will asked her to tender resignation rather than terminating her. Below are our concern.
1. If she tender resignation as per HR recommendation, then she will lose out on EIS benefit (My concern). I do believe that if terminated by HR then will be able to claim for EIS benefit, please correct me if I’m wrong. She just need to prove that she's actively looking for job however I doubt any employer will want to employ her when they realized she's pregnant but this is not her fault as she's still will be actively looking for job.
2. If she get terminated instead, then this kinda leave a bad record for future employer (her concern). As recently jobs in banking industry go through stringent process and definitely new employer will check with current HR. Termination does sound bad compared to voluntary resigned.
3. Either way, she will not be able to find a new job due to being pregnant and how the market situation at the moment. I foresee if 1 or 2 happened, then the soonest she can start working is mid December/early January.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you all.

Get termination. EIS & compensation benefits

This post has been edited by burninvincible: May 18 2020, 11:49 AM

Just wanna ask, how many kids you have since she took this jobs.

This is my thought too. However when you said compensation benefit, what are you referring to? Is it like payout to employee because working for certain period? But if terminated due to PIP still can get this?

May I know how is this relevant to the situation? But if it does, I'll personally PM you afterward. Not comfortable disclosing it to the public.

It's relevant bro.

Imagine you're the boss. You own the business.

1. Do you want to pay free salary ( maternity leave 60 days? or now 90 days?) for a staff which is pregnant 3 times during 6 years services and perform well.

2. Or do you want to pay salary to a staff ( maternity leave) only one time during 6 years services and performing well as well.

3. Or do you want to pay a staff whom, never sick, never taken maternity leave at all perform the same as well.

I would say you will preferred 2 & 3.


As you said because of MCO , your wife could not met the sales target. Sales position is about figures.

Some sales person that i've know can close a sales even through telemarketing and without attending to customer face to face. They are very good.

Actually... you already have the answer.

1. She's not able to find a job these few months due to her pregnancy.

2. Is your earning and current savings of whatever you both have, able to support your family until she has given birth, rested and ready to get back to work (presumably, 10 months to 1 year)?

--> if your answer is yes, resign. As you put it, banks are stringent and she wouldn't want to leave a bad record which will affect future employment opportunity.

--> if your answer is no, then wait for termination to happen. Since you're desperate for any cash you can have to support for the next few months, survival now triumphs over what takes place later.

Termination benefits according to years of service. If your wife about to deliver, some co will pay in full the maternity leave.

How long has her company been contributing towards EIS? If 1-2 years, i don't think it is much.

On point 2, i have the same concern too and it's best not to burn bridges while trying to secure another job. HR these days are well connected.

Not sure if the company is willing to give VSS where she is paid according to the years of service. Best option if she can get this.

You as a husband cannot support her for a while?

Why die dies still wanna ask her to find a new job during pregnancy period? Give her a break.

Let her resign and focus for a while with the baby.

Let's put yourself in your wife shoes. What would you do to get the most out of the above situation?

1) Are you going to get bullied into resignation because of HR pressure?
2) Are you going to stick to your existing post until further action is taken by either party?
3) Are you going to seek alternative solutions in other departments instead of constant pressure of sales target?
4) Are you going to lodge a case with NUBE if situation worsens ?

The choices are aplenty. Make the choice wisely and gainfully by referring some sort of game theory into this...and most of all, don't bow to pressure.

TS should take the course of action with the greatest benefit. Basically ts already outline him self how he have 3 option.

Option 1
- Reach the sales target. Everything continue as usual.

Option 2
- Fail to reach sales target. Resign to avoid burning bridges. Focus on the future.

Option 3
- Fail to reach sales target. Refuse to resign in order to get 1-2 months more salary and perhaps remuneration for being fired.

So it comes down to one thing only.

Is the bridge you are going to burn worth 1-2months salary and the remuneration? If it is then refuse to resign. It its not then resign.

Since you’re aware that in her line of work, background checks are stringent, the best course of action is to resign right before she is terminated.

Based on what you’ve written, it looks like EIS is your concern while maintaining a clean record is hers. This is where your problem lies - I don’t see you using the word “we” in this case as a married couple.

You’re concerned about EIS because your income alone would not be sufficient to support your family’s lifestyle. She’s concerned about her future because she knows she still needs to get back to work after giving birth in order to keep up with the family’s current lifestyle.

I have good news for you. Restructure your finances, take out all the luxuries spending out and keep only the necessities. Have your wife resign just before she is terminated and once she has regained her health following her maternity period, she can start finding another job and you can resume your normal lifestyle, or better yet, tone it down a little as you’re likely living beyond your means without any emergency funds.

Edit: I hope this does not comes off as harsh, but I can relate to your situation. I was in a similar situation as yours recently, minus the pregnancy part. Luckily for me, I have a 6-month emergency fund I can tap from and completely restructured my finances and investments, down to the little things like reducing my phone plan, downgrading Unifi and cutting out almost all entertainment expenses (MCO helps) and I ended up still having positive cash flow even after losing a secondary source of income.

This post has been edited by Salary: May 19 2020, 12:28 AM

Wanted to reply much earlier but couldn't due to in probation.
I see. I understand your point here from the bosses perspective.


Got it. I did look up a bit about termination/retrenchment/compensation benefit. Since more than 5 years, then every year the compensation will be about 20 days of pay. From my reading, even if my wife got terminated due to performance, she's still entitled to compensation benefit because it's not like she broke the law. The one thing I'm not sure is termination due to performance can still apply for EIS or not.

However, I will still check with Socso and Labour Department within this week.

Should be right from the start, so around 2018 i believe?


Well, to be honest, my salary is not that big and I'm supporting my parents (not too much) and my wife is supporting her parents and her sibling in university (this is quite a big % of her income). Without her income, our cashflow will instantly turn into negative. We do have savings but I don't think it will last that long like more than 6 months.


Well not possible to change to the different departments when still under PIP. And from what I heard from my wife, due to this Covid19, a lot of contract staff won't be renewed . The bank will just keep the minimum staff required to keep the operation running.

Anyways, some of you mentioned about burning the bridge/bad record.

Can you guys explain more why is it like burning bridge if she does not resign as requested? From what I see, even if she voluntarily resigned or even if she got terminated, future HR will still do a cross-check with current HR. Even if she resigned/terminated, it's still due to non-performance. Or is it like, the current HR may say bad thing because my wife refuses to resign just to spite her? I'm trying to understand this better. This is my wife's biggest concern.

There is a fair case to dispute here.

Before I go further, kindly provide the following info:(PM Me)

1. If your wife lost this job income, will you able to support her financially at least 1 year?

2. She is due for confinement when?(because this is related to Labour laws - Maternity coverage and benefits)

Labour dispute can be deal in professional way such as direct negotiation, conciliation before Arbitration by the Industrial Court.

PM Me.

1st thing to tell your wife - Get your wife emotional to calm down in workplace now, minimize reply in writing especially related to PIP or work performance issues at his moment.

2nd - record all conversation(in voice), email and letter issued by HR from now on.

Get terminate if you're desperate for money else resign

Suggest TS to follow this.

IMHO, I don't think there is any bridge left to burn in this economy. I bet HR will also be careful in terminating a soon to delivering mom, this will really look bad and has chance for dispute. That is why they are hoping she will resign herself using multiple approach.

Ideally, I will just stick around till maternity leave and look for new job after

Assuming TS's wife resigns on her own (since she is indirectly forced), what reason should she give when she is asked why she left by the new employer? Covid? Do HR actually call up the previous company?

This post has been edited by silverwave: May 23 2020, 05:46 PM

just wait for termination.

Employers who fire pregnant ladies usually don't have much leverage, and won't dare to make big news out of it

Actually TS, is she on a PIP or at risk of entering a PIP because of her lack of performance? There can be grounds for termination for non performance provided she doesn't improve after the PIP. If she isnt on a PIP yet then you shouldn't worry. Assuming she fails to meet the target for June enters a PIP for a duration of 3 months, that puts you closer to her delivery date. Then come the time you make the decision to either accept a termination or to resign. But if you have checked and she should get compensation, I'm favouring you accept termination. This crisis is going to be rough, she might not be able to secure a job even after confinement. With money in hand you can pursue other options and have some financial security. There could also be other opportunities in other industries so you don't need to worry about a bad referral

And like a poster above mentioned, start documenting correspondences with HR. I got a feeling they are being a bit sneaky and using this as an excuse to cut costs. Think about it, shouldn't sales targets be revised during MCO?

This post has been edited by 9m2w: May 24 2020, 02:10 PM

Hi, I have to correct you about the termination benefits.
Termination due to performance/ misconduct is not entitle for compensation benefits.
What the Employment Act referring to is retrenchment/VSS/MSS cases.
Therefore, your wife is not entitle for any termination compensation if terminated due to PIP.

Share with you about my experience of EIS claim.
The EIS claim amount is very small, the maximum you get is about RM13K (throughout 6 months) (if your salary is RM4K and above)

My 2 cents to your wife is

(1) Luckily, your wife's superior is supportive, he/she may help you to get 2nd chance from company. Check wit the superior that is that any other things can help your wife to keep the employment.

(2) if action (1) is not working, then resign before termination take place.

I don't think your wife's employer will keep quiet if your wife refuse to resign. The employer may has higher expectation or matters to challenge your wife.
When your wife attend next interview session, she can share that she unable to focus/ feel unconformable during pregnancy period.
Therefore, would like to spend times for rest.

Don't worry about how the HR give the comments about reference check.
what your wife can do is, do the best during interview session. The hiring decision is from hiring manager, not base on the outcome of reference check only.
Some companies will give a chance to candidate after knowing their previous condition.

This post has been edited by Jesse0916: May 24 2020, 06:53 PM

Hi TS,
Just curious to know who gave the PIP to your wife?
Because you mentioned that her direct manager is supportive so couldn't be the manager ho gave the PIP to your wife right?

Hi All,

Just wanted to provide update. At the end my wife will voluntarily resigned and July will be her last month. Some of the suggestion here really good and although I was stressed out due to this situation, I think it turn out okay at the end.

Thank you all for all the suggestion and advice.

well at least this gives your wife the chance to rest and take care of the baby.

so voluntarily resign mean no money. good luck

Wishing all the best to your wife and you. Hope that things will turn out for the better.