Had purchased a property at January, then happened the lockdown. Dont have much update from the property and agent side.

Any guru know if continue like this to may or even longer, will it effect the completion? If delay, will it consider can get penalty?

I also purchased mine last April. Wouldn't be surprised if there's a delay.

Most likely the developers will apply for the EOT (Extension of Time) and it will surely be granted by the Housing Controller due to this Covid-19 pandemic.

This post has been edited by DesRed: Apr 15 2020, 10:05 AM

Definitely

Confirm delay...
Every project like that unless they like PRC style..
24/7 working 😁

then meaning interest also....+++

delay doesn't matter, must pay LAD!

But if ur contract signed 48 months, probably still enough time for the developer to avoid paying u hehe

https://media.edgeprop.my/s3fs-public/pullo...n3MtQS33G57RQs9


Can refer to page 8 from the edge pull out.

If the property u bought is under HDA then shouldn't be a problem

No guru would knows better than your developer or seek advise from your SPA lawyer.

If our Mco is continuing to May or even longer, it will impact the construction period but not necessary affect the completion (maybe yes or maybe no) because they follow by law, regulation or any Act by the Federal Government to pause all the construction works that beyond developer's control.

In the SPA, developer needs to complete the property within the schedule period, example 36 months.
If the MCO delayed 2 months and after that, the developer able to rush back all the backlog within remaining period or the other buffer of 34 months, there are no delay.

If there are delay, the developer have to apply the EOT from the Authority and surely the extension is granted due to sanction was happened during MCO, it's up to the government. If your SPA stated a clause of force majeure, then the developer has no liable to pay the LAD for the cause of late delivery by this clause.

You need to check when is your property commenced the construction even though you just bought in January. If the project launched, constructed and started to sell one year ago, the developer will construct according to this schedule to avoid any LAD or delay, or at least minimized it, so in a nutshell those who bought one year later may probably not affected by the completion date due to SPA date is also late.

did not logged in for a month into lyn forum.
glanced through and surprisingly didn't find a specific thread to do a common Q&A on covid19 and mco impact on properties.

so let's begin, shall we?

generally common questions being thrown about are:
1. can tenants ask landlord for discounts?
2. will completion date of undercon be extended?
3. would DLP be extended?
4. i'd booked a property before the mco. dateline to execute has lapsed, how?

the above are all common questions that has been raised. and while there may not be a one size fits all approach but generally after attending a couple of webinars hosted by various legal firms, i'd would think i'd gathered some general insights into the common approach to these questions.

so feel free to discuss and let forummers deliberate in this forum in an open mind concept to help each other, shall we?

so for now, let's raise your most desired questions and see if there are experts coming forward to help answer it.

cheerios!

yea i would like to know also, hopefully developer will pay LAD accordingly regardless of MCO.

if housing minstry allow exemption they need to study the case carefully. Example, lakeville block C and D already made known to the buyer that VP will be delayed until JUNE, and this was notified in December few months before MCO. hopefully developer cannot use this as excuses want to deduct the LAD for MCO period.

where to get the answer ?

This post has been edited by Pain4UrsinZ: Apr 16 2020, 11:10 AM

undercon or subsales?
if it's undercon, may seek extension of time to complete the documents.
similarly for subsales.
even if you manage to sign the spa, land office and lhdn not open to do stamping also.
as such, it would benefit all parties to follow through the transaction post mco.

you are correct. contractor would firstly apply EOT from the consultants. if valid, extension would be granted. similarly the developer would follow suit to apply from respective authorities for an extension as well. and needless to say, if granted, VP to purchasers shall also be extended.

you only pay interest for portion that's billed. and since part of your property may or has been completed, you are liable to finance your own 'part property'. obviously the most painful group that are exposed to this may be those who are just about to vp. they would need to pay substantial interest while not able to get vp. but the same applies to the whole chain of developer/consultants/contractors/suppliers and even authorities too. the whole chain of stakeholders involved are equally affected. the only consolation is the bank's 6 months moratorium which helps to cushion this crushing blow.

Maybe it's time (hint) to cancel?

excellent point.
however for HDA's schedule G or H, it has neither force majeure clause or frustration clause.
however there is a newly introduced determination clause by the purchaser (clause 10) which they have the right to exercise. read through carefully as it has its own pros and cons.

there is a lot if property value drop to 20%

https://www.facebook.com/64839963085/posts/...58320712278086/

One property jedi master foresee price drop in range of 30%.

As most bought poorperly with bank loan, vendor losses if include loan interest, services, etc incurred would be higher than price drop alone and mounting with time.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 01:52 PM

Drop by*

Property price stagnant mean incurring about 4% p.a financial loss. Financial loss from a few years holding could be more than nominal price drop.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 02:14 PM

That is only one part of the bigger picture..

At the end of the day it is dollars and cents matter, the rest is only good for blow water.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 03:02 PM

Depends on how you measure the performance.

If a property is cashflow positive and price is stagnant over 35 years (which is unlikely). You’ll end up with a fully paid off home.

That being said, it’s grossly oversimplified to make a point that even if price were to remain stagnant. You’ll come up top.

Cash flow positive for 35 years, realistic or not?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 03:33 PM

Yes

Few and far in between.

Property price stagnant last 35 years?

Rent stagnant last 35 years?

This is a new era no one has experienced before, poorperly price and rental will remain stagnant or drop for many years.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 04:18 PM

No one has experienced before? Refer to below for the period leading up to AFC in the 90s.


Let’s keep in mind that SEA is a developing region and GDP growth is stronger than many first world countries.

Let’s also set aside the fact that the world production is shifting out of China.

It’s okay, you can continue to stay hidden in your coconut and oyster shell.

Inflation is real.

Every economic recession is different. this economic recession is world wide, worse and last longer than 1997 afc. some said this recession is like combination of 1918 spanish flu pandemic and 1929 great depression. if lockdown is earthquake, there will be tsunami.

factories shifting out china has been happening since u.s china trade war started, how many have moved to malaysia?

sea gdp growth was largely depending on export and fdi. how much and at what price could they export? how many fdi will come to unproductive, overpriced and red taped country?

We shall see, let's revisit this in time.

IMF: Malaysia's GDP to grow 9% in 2021

Certainly.

IMF assumed 8% working days loss and 11% drop in export for 2020.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 05:32 PM

2020? Drop by how many percent?

DO NOT LISTEN TO THOSE BIG ORG SAY. They are living in their world

I agree that it's up to the Housing Ministry's discretion on a case-by-case basis. However, the Coronavirus/Covid-19 pandemic and the MCO that followed cannot be dismissed as just a mere excuse when almost all the business sectors are impacted, including the SMEs, just to keep it under check. Plus many people also got sick and many also died as a result of it.

Even Sabah was under a lockdown as a result of the Lahad Datu terrorist attack many years ago and those suppliers/vendors there couldn't deliver the tractor parts to the company I used to work for in Sarawak for 2 weeks or more as a result of that. We had no choice but to wait as those parts aren't available in the latter state.

Not to say that I'm okay with not paying the LAD when it's due to delays at the developer's end, but this is an unforeseen event that is out of anyone's control.

This post has been edited by DesRed: Apr 18 2020, 12:47 PM

why 4%?

Icy is basing it off interest costs.

but that's too general statement. what about those who pay in cash.

i see it more as an opportunity cost. money not used to buy property may be invested somewhere else, e.g. topglove company which is doing well now

If one bought poorperly with cash and poorperly price stagnant still loss => FD interest.

Most invested in poorperly because of access to leverage.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 01:50 PM

if you compare to fd, it's now only 2.65%...

Be realistic, with so many opportunities available, how many invest poorperly with cash?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 01:52 PM

Don't forget the rental income if rented out, or own stay that you get a Home.

Stress tests done by BNM https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...n-house/1853086

You mean 100%? Why do they have to?

It's a tangible asset that's relatively low volatility. Better than most "safe havens" during times like this. Those who are cash rich will leverage higher grads more and ordinary people like me would seize the opportunity to get samsui unit for own stay.

The real investment IMO is in our credit profile

No difference from following and listening to IBs and Brokers TP for shares. It gets revised as and when the situation changes.

We all could find out whether numbers is over optimistic or not soon after loan moratorium.

Poorperly price is slow to move is not because it is a safe haven but illiquid.

Leverage amplify profits as well as losses. In time of economic crisis, those highly leveraged and stressed suffer the most.

You sound like student of poorperly guru; leverage, leverage and leverage.

Forecast is based on certain conditions. As Economy, politic, weather, market sentiment, etc is dynamic, hence forecast need to revise accordingly.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 04:06 PM

You contradict your own point on another thread. I'm not sure how I came across as property guru advocate lol, when the truth is I'm so far from that.

The key to the leverage part are: before, During or after recession. One is in deep trouble when highly leverage BEFORE crisis. But same can't be said to those leverage during or after recession.

This would be different ball game. If past economic recession is any precedent, few of those who are highly leveraged before the recession could play.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 04:36 PM

following and listening to Property Guru or Brokers..
then guarantee ticket to Holland...

they only want to fill up their pockets first...

If anything, this will become depression rather than recession. In 6 months all will be clearer.

Some are trusted one
Not everyone like that

Economic recession is a certainty, depression is likely if MCO is extended and more outbreak and lockdown later.

Recession is consecutive 2 QR of GDP decline. We're now in recession. Depression is when we don't take the lockdown seriously and end up being extended

If MCO is extended to end of May as many are speculating, the country will loss about 20% of working days for the year. And this could not guarantee new cases, outbreak and lockdown wouldn't occur again.

With porous border with Indonesia, new imported cases is almost a certainty.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 19 2020, 10:45 AM

Retrenchment will get even worse
Whole economy will be so screwed that time

The most serious drop in price.. Some house prices may fall by 70%

https://www.orientaldaily.com.my/news/natio...20/04/20/336681

This agent high fever.

As expected la

Only those who has experienced AFC 1997 would understand.

An interesting question to ask is how many of the launched and in progress projects will be completed, instead of being abandoned. I think it's common practise for developers to incorporate individual pte ltd company to undertake each project to insulate the holding company. The bigger companies may be worried about the damage to their reputation should they walk away from a loss making project. Many other SME developers may care less and simply declare bankruptcy for the project company as we have witnessed many past cases of abandoned projects during economic downturns. The banks will own the "project", land & whatever uncompleted buildings and lelong it out to new owner. If banks had disbursed partially loans taken up, would buyers end up owing the banks and need to repay the loans with interest but with no property, nothing to show?

1) depends on whether the land is financed or not
2) depends on contractors apply to wind up company or not
3) depends on loan type, certain Islamic loans if abandoned, buyers don’t have to pay.

Conventional loans yes.

😅🤣😂

So bad of u 😋

Well that time very serious..
This time might be even worse 😣

would this present an opportunity for me to buy a place for own stay at reasonable price?

I'm not going to go into the intricacies to explain why a correction that deep will not happen.

To keep it simple, for asset price to fall that much the rental yield will have to fall significantly.

With no sharp excess supply pouring into the market it is simply not possible.

Unless COVID-20 appears and kills 90% of the world population.

The right time to buy if you are having a lot of dough to spare in this trying times.

Only if you know how many plc and big time developers are in talk on restructuring.

Yes, this recession will be worse and longer than AFC 97.

Most if not all contractors, suppliers, service providers, etc to developer received multiple contra units. It is not at all surprised for them to offload at substantial cheaper price for cash flow.

If one knows where to look could find.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 03:23 PM

That is a fair assumption, correction is to be expected. But nowhere that as deep and wide, and will be short lived.

This post has been edited by Zwean: Apr 20 2020, 03:43 PM

The elephant in the room is overhang/unsold/idling units in both primary and secondary market.

Developers have already and will slow down launches in the short medium term.

For those that are not strong, let them wind up.

Pity the buyers.

Poorperly overhang in primary market is still widening.

Many developers bought land bank with borrowing from bank or bonds, is incurring interest. They are more likely to launch cheaper price unit soon than leaving it idle else the land could become financially not feasible to develop.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 03:48 PM

Your assumptions are largely correct.

Small to Mid even some Big developers may choose to forsake and abandon projects. As almost all developers uses a subsidiary to undertake developments, the parent company would be shielded from the limited liabilities.
And yes, owners who financed their purchases would need to repay the loans disbursed including interest but with no property.

Lmao Tony beh tahan

i am cautiously optimistic that our country may not suffered much from this and expected to recover with a strong pace.
the last few days has shown very encouraging results and the bank moratorium provided a very huge relief on a lot of parties.

take china for example. start of epidemic to lockdown to uplifting. what is the total period and its implication towards their economy and growth?
and by drawing similar comparison of theirs to us, i can see similarities.

fingers crossed the worst has already passed.

What is happening in China will similarly happen to us later. However, most if not all plc and big companies in China are soe, have almost unlimited backing and resources to sustain.

Pboc has wide range of tools and more resources available to support the market e.g property, stocks that may not available to bnm.

If one has access to news for domestic consumption could find sme and private enterprise in China are facing cash flow difficulty, cancelled orders, substantial dropped in revenue, etc, many could soon close or down size especially those in retail.

Given many companies and individuals are over geared in this country; if lockdown is earthquake, there will be tsunami.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-econo...ts-crush-demand

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 06:21 PM

ambank FD promo 3.5% for 6 or 12 months


thank you for your succint summary. i think you are corect. people still need a place to stay , regardless of whether they buy or rent.

our population will continue growing. urban areas will continue to host foreign labor.

Population growth rate is slowing down and in about 2030, this country will become ageing nation.

So foreign labours will stay in high rise condo?

If demand is rising, how to explain property overhang?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 08:53 PM

"Ageing" not aged.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/318690/...on-in-malaysia/

2030 median age estimate of Malaysia is at 34.1.

ageing people still need to stay somewhere , correct ?

foreign labor will stay in medium cost high rise housing , with 6-8 people per unit.

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/12/...eing-population

How to define medium cost high rise?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 09:25 PM

34.1 is not an aged nation.

Median age is still young relative to other first world countries.

Median age is not the issue. Ageing nation, fewer productive population is the concern.

Ageing nation is basically a measure of how good a country's health care system is.

I'm sorry, but you have to make sense of data properly before using it as an argument. Notice first world countries with high 65 and above population.

Learn to see how it correlates, where were these first world countries back when they had our numbers and the growth of asset prices from then till now.

I don't see asset prices fall because of high % of 65 above population. Certainly no stagnancy of asset prices just because median age has increased.

Malaysia
Median age - 30.3 (2020)
65 above - 6.3% (2017)

Singapore
Median age - 42.2 (2020)
65 above - 11.46 (2020)

Australia
Median age - 37.9 (2020)
65 above - 15% (2018)

UK
Median age - 40.5 (2020)
65 above - 18% (2016)

America
Median age - 38.2 (2018)
65 above - 16% (2017)

Sweden
Median age - 40.9 (2015)
65 above - 20.1% (2018)


Thailand
Median age - 40.1 (2020)
65 above - 11.9% (2018)

Property bull run is unlikely for many years.

I didn’t say a bull run is coming.

Im saying that the correlation coefficient is close to 0.

We all will find out in next year or so.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 21 2020, 12:18 AM

Edgeprop is literally a website that survive by other ppl buying property... haha

If you are out from the coconut shell, you will know.

Huh?
This one shyoik sendiri article 😁

Many target crash.. this one expect surge in pricing...

The world is my oyster.

Many of those with vested interest are in denial, their hope and wish could be far from reality.