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 Covid19 and MCO effect on properties, Q&A Session on the effects

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icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(Ckmwpy0370 @ Apr 16 2020, 01:20 PM)
there is a lot if property value drop to 20%

https://www.facebook.com/64839963085/posts/...58320712278086/
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One property jedi master foresee price drop in range of 30%.

As most bought poorperly with bank loan, vendor losses if include loan interest, services, etc incurred would be higher than price drop alone and mounting with time.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 01:52 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 02:01 PM)
Drop by*
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Property price stagnant mean incurring about 4% p.a financial loss. Financial loss from a few years holding could be more than nominal price drop.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 02:14 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 02:27 PM)
That is only one part of the bigger picture..
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At the end of the day it is dollars and cents matter, the rest is only good for blow water.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 03:02 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 03:14 PM)
Depends on how you measure the performance.

If a property is cashflow positive and price is stagnant over 35 years (which is unlikely). You’ll end up with a fully paid off home.

That being said, it’s grossly oversimplified to make a point that even if price were to remain stagnant. You’ll come up top.
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Cash flow positive for 35 years, realistic or not?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 03:33 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 03:34 PM)
Yes
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Few and far in between.
icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 04:08 PM)
Property price stagnant last 35 years?

Rent stagnant last 35 years?
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This is a new era no one has experienced before, poorperly price and rental will remain stagnant or drop for many years.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 04:18 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 04:28 PM)
No one has experienced before? Refer to below for the period leading up to AFC in the 90s.
user posted image

Let’s keep in mind that SEA is a developing region and GDP growth is stronger than many first world countries.

Let’s also set aside the fact that the world production is shifting out of China.

It’s okay, you can continue to stay hidden in your coconut and oyster shell.

Inflation is real.
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Every economic recession is different. this economic recession is world wide, worse and last longer than 1997 afc. some said this recession is like combination of 1918 spanish flu pandemic and 1929 great depression. if lockdown is earthquake, there will be tsunami.

factories shifting out china has been happening since u.s china trade war started, how many have moved to malaysia?

sea gdp growth was largely depending on export and fdi. how much and at what price could they export? how many fdi will come to unproductive, overpriced and red taped country?

icemanfx
post Apr 16 2020, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 16 2020, 05:20 PM)
We shall see, let's revisit this in time.
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Certainly.

QUOTE(stchoong @ Apr 16 2020, 05:22 PM)
IMF: Malaysia's GDP to grow 9% in 2021
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IMF assumed 8% working days loss and 11% drop in export for 2020.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 16 2020, 05:32 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 18 2020, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(koja6049 @ Apr 18 2020, 01:39 PM)
but that's too general statement. what about those who pay in cash.

i see it more as an opportunity cost. money not used to buy property may be invested somewhere else, e.g. topglove company which is doing well now biggrin.gif
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If one bought poorperly with cash and poorperly price stagnant still loss => FD interest.

Most invested in poorperly because of access to leverage.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 01:50 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 18 2020, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(koja6049 @ Apr 18 2020, 01:50 PM)
if you compare to fd, it's now only 2.65%...  hmm.gif
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Be realistic, with so many opportunities available, how many invest poorperly with cash?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 01:52 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 18 2020, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(wsoon82 @ Apr 18 2020, 03:03 PM)
Don't forget the rental income if rented out, or own stay that you get a Home.

Stress tests done by BNM https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...n-house/1853086
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We all could find out whether numbers is over optimistic or not soon after loan moratorium.

QUOTE(VincentCS @ Apr 18 2020, 03:11 PM)
You mean 100%? Why do they have to?

It's a tangible asset that's relatively low volatility. Better than most "safe havens" during times like this. Those who are cash rich will leverage higher grads more and ordinary people like me would seize the opportunity to get samsui unit for own stay.

The real investment IMO is in our credit profile
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Poorperly price is slow to move is not because it is a safe haven but illiquid.

Leverage amplify profits as well as losses. In time of economic crisis, those highly leveraged and stressed suffer the most.

You sound like student of poorperly guru; leverage, leverage and leverage.

QUOTE(cms @ Apr 18 2020, 03:22 PM)
No difference from following and listening to IBs and Brokers TP for shares. It gets revised as and when the situation changes.
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Forecast is based on certain conditions. As Economy, politic, weather, market sentiment, etc is dynamic, hence forecast need to revise accordingly.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 04:06 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 18 2020, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(VincentCS @ Apr 18 2020, 04:11 PM)
You contradict your own point on another thread. I'm not sure how I came across as property guru advocate lol, when the truth is I'm so far from that.

The key to the leverage part are: before, During or after recession. One is in deep trouble when highly leverage BEFORE crisis. But same can't be said to those leverage during or after recession.
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This would be different ball game. If past economic recession is any precedent, few of those who are highly leveraged before the recession could play.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 18 2020, 04:36 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 18 2020, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(VincentCS @ Apr 18 2020, 04:50 PM)
If anything, this will become depression rather than recession. In 6 months all will be clearer.
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Economic recession is a certainty, depression is likely if MCO is extended and more outbreak and lockdown later.
icemanfx
post Apr 19 2020, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(VincentCS @ Apr 19 2020, 02:32 AM)
Recession is consecutive 2 QR of GDP decline. We're now in recession. Depression is when we don't take the lockdown seriously and end up being extended
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If MCO is extended to end of May as many are speculating, the country will loss about 20% of working days for the year. And this could not guarantee new cases, outbreak and lockdown wouldn't occur again.

With porous border with Indonesia, new imported cases is almost a certainty.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 19 2020, 10:45 AM
icemanfx
post Apr 20 2020, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Apr 20 2020, 01:07 PM)
The most serious drop in price.. Some house prices may fall by 70% drool.gif

https://www.orientaldaily.com.my/news/natio...20/04/20/336681
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Only those who has experienced AFC 1997 would understand.
icemanfx
post Apr 20 2020, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(AHGS14 @ Apr 20 2020, 02:19 PM)
An interesting question to ask is how many of the launched and in progress projects will be completed, instead of being abandoned.  I think it's common practise for developers to incorporate individual pte ltd company to undertake each project to insulate the holding company. The bigger companies may be worried about the damage to their reputation should they walk away from a loss making project.  Many other SME developers may care less and simply declare bankruptcy for the project company as we have witnessed many past cases of abandoned projects during economic downturns.  The banks will own the "project", land & whatever uncompleted buildings and lelong it out to new owner.  If banks had disbursed partially loans taken up, would buyers end up owing the banks and need to repay the loans with interest but with no property, nothing to show?
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Only if you know how many plc and big time developers are in talk on restructuring.

QUOTE(nexona88 @ Apr 20 2020, 02:34 PM)
Well  that time very serious..
This time might be even worse 😣
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Yes, this recession will be worse and longer than AFC 97.

QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 20 2020, 02:56 PM)
I'm not going to go into the intricacies to explain why a correction that deep will not happen.

To keep it simple, for asset price to fall that much the rental yield will have to fall significantly.

With no sharp excess supply pouring into the market it is simply not possible.

Unless COVID-20 appears and kills 90% of the world population.  laugh.gif
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Most if not all contractors, suppliers, service providers, etc to developer received multiple contra units. It is not at all surprised for them to offload at substantial cheaper price for cash flow.

If one knows where to look could find.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 03:23 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 20 2020, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 20 2020, 03:32 PM)
That is a fair assumption, correction is to be expected. But nowhere that as deep and wife, and will be short lived.
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The elephant in the room is overhang/unsold/idling units in both primary and secondary market.

icemanfx
post Apr 20 2020, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(Zwean @ Apr 20 2020, 03:40 PM)
Developers have already and will slow down launches in the short medium term.

For those that are not strong, let them wind up.

Pity the buyers.
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Poorperly overhang in primary market is still widening.

Many developers bought land bank with borrowing from bank or bonds, is incurring interest. They are more likely to launch cheaper price unit soon than leaving it idle else the land could become financially not feasible to develop.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 03:48 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 20 2020, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(kochin @ Apr 20 2020, 05:38 PM)
i am cautiously optimistic that our country may not suffered much from this and expected to recover with a strong pace.
the last few days has shown very encouraging results and the bank moratorium provided a very huge relief on a lot of parties.

take china for example. start of epidemic to lockdown to uplifting. what is the total period and its implication towards their economy and growth?
and by drawing similar comparison of theirs to us, i can see similarities.

fingers crossed the worst has already passed.
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What is happening in China will similarly happen to us later. However, most if not all plc and big companies in China are soe, have almost unlimited backing and resources to sustain.

Pboc has wide range of tools and more resources available to support the market e.g property, stocks that may not available to bnm.

If one has access to news for domestic consumption could find sme and private enterprise in China are facing cash flow difficulty, cancelled orders, substantial dropped in revenue, etc, many could soon close or down size especially those in retail.

Given many companies and individuals are over geared in this country; if lockdown is earthquake, there will be tsunami.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-econo...ts-crush-demand

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 06:21 PM
icemanfx
post Apr 20 2020, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(not timid and slow @ Apr 20 2020, 08:49 PM)
ambank FD promo 3.5% for 6 or 12 months
thank you for your succint summary. i think you are corect. people still need a place to stay , regardless of whether they buy or rent.

our population will continue growing. urban areas will continue to host foreign labor.
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Population growth rate is slowing down and in about 2030, this country will become ageing nation.

So foreign labours will stay in high rise condo?

If demand is rising, how to explain property overhang?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 20 2020, 08:53 PM

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