whichever floats your boat. I leave behind 10% for the 300k and use the remaining 270k without much worries because I know that I have another 300k on standby if anything happens to me.

Hence I created 570k instead of just 300k. Which is a smarter choice ? I don't mind the extra money, I rather have more than less/just enough

This post has been edited by lifebalance: Aug 10 2020, 07:26 PM

thanks for telling about that....

this get me thinking.....

how should one liked or think the ethical agent should have explained to his potential client?

i know many of you are knowledgeable in this insurance industry,.....mind telling how do you pass on the knowledge of how best to spot a good or more ethical agent from the way they promote their product to a client?

let's say, in a situation where, you cannot communicate about what you knew about insurance to your loved one,....(example, you kena stroke cannot communicate in writing or verbal), then there is an agent came to your house to try to promote an insurance product to your grandsons or son or daughter inlaw (let say you had not bought for them any insurance)
you are aware, listening on the conversation of the agent and your loved one.....
how do you tell if that agent is "good" or so so or just not good to have?

what are some of the basic should have?
i googled and found this...
How To Know If You Have A Good Insurance Agent?
Does your insurance agent fit the bill?
https://dollarsandsense.my/how-to-know-if-y...nsurance-agent/

are those enough or there should be more based on your vast experience gained?

(i am try to compile a list of "how to spot" a good one, to be passed on to my sons when they are starting to work....)

the website you shared pretty much summed up a "responsible" agent who adhere to rules and regulation and pretty much need to do what an agent is suppose to do.

As for how a good agent can be good will be based on his number of years of experience in the industry. That being said, it doesn't mean the longer you are in the industry = you are experienced. I have met some Group Sales Managers before and they knew nuts about their company product, and they are 20 years into the industry. Claiming they focus only on recruitment only and training. These kind of agents rely on their customers who are into long term relationships already and basically just buy whatever the agent says rather than seek for real skilled agents. That's the issue facing in Malaysia.

Pointers
1# Good product knowledge of the company he represents

2# Able to communicate in layman on how the product works as simple as possible to the client

3# Able to explain the mechanics of an insurance policy be it term/ILP/traditional/universal

4# Provide after-service of course i.e change of address, nomination, claims, etc

5# Able to provide tailor recommendation be it Term, ILP, Universal, Traditional policies

6# Able to advise not only insurance knowledge but other areas of personal finances.

the insurance industry agents still has a lot to learn.

Huh? Financially independent means you no need the extra 300k lah... need for what? Medical cost coveted by medical card ... your daily expenses not a problem cause FI mah... need 300k for standby for what ?

Btw, you every year pay 26k when u r 75 year old... and this amount keep increasing to 50k when u r 84 years old...

If you drop dead at 86 years old ... the hundreds of thousands go down the drain... all this for 300k which u don’t even need? C’mon man...

When you talk about CI, if you have planned for the money after your retirement after 55 and expected to live up to 75 to 80 years old. Then you would have already prepared for that fund.

Then you may not necessary need a CI coverage by then, as I've said earlier that CI is a tool for income replacement.

If you're a single, then pray hard you have made enough money when you're old and grey for any major illnesses because no one is going to take care of you (unless you have rich friends to pay ur hospital and living expenses bill)

if you're married with kids, then hope your kids take care of your expenses if you're not rich, if you're a good father/mother, and don't want to burden your children cash flow, make sure you have enough money to take care urself if you're sick.

Like every resources, it will be depleted, your scenario has no example of starting point, we just assume "Yeah he is Financial Independent", how much is there in his bank account then ? what is his lifestyle ? What is his commitments ?

If your scenario is, oh he has no commitments, RM10,000,000 in his retirement account, passive income from just getting the interest every year, by all means sir, don't get the CI insurance.

Assuming 10,000,000 x 6% interest, that's RM600,000 yearly, you can't take care yourself with that money?

Again your scenario has no base or starting point and based on assumption, it's like chasing a rainbow wild goose if you want to hold this discussion. Because once I've given the above example, you would again come up with another different scenario that alters the position of this imaginary figure of "financial independent" with no exact base figures. My advise is, use real/constant figures to establish the base point instead of constantly moving the goal post. Then discussing will be much easier.

This post has been edited by lifebalance: Aug 10 2020, 08:17 PM

Yes. Just saying that in the case of ppl who has achieved FI, there is no need for CI. If a person can retire on 3k passive income per month for example, there is no need for CI. That’s it. What I am saying is, CI insurance is not a must. That’s all.

lets use your assumption that RM3,000 passive income per month is enough for someone, which means we are assuming this person doesn't work anymore (since he's retired and no longer employed). Which means he livelihood depends on this RM3,000 monthly, no more, no less.

If he were to be critically ill, assuming he has a medical card to pay for it. But instead of just RM3,000 monthly expenses now, he needs to fork out extra RM2,000 on top of it to buy medication and change of diet, maybe instead of walking up and down, he has to hire a caretaker to do the chores, hence the 2,000 extra.

How is he able to survive then ? He only gets 3k monthly, he needs 5k monthly now. The only way is to take from his capital which provides his passive income (this is assuming he doesn't have cash savings/FD/etc liquid).

Wouldn't this ruin his long term passive income then ?

How would you propose to solve this gentleman's problem ??

Just a simple example and you are ready to pounce on it or to punch holes.. lol.. make it 5k per month passive income then if you like

Even without that... even on 3k per month, u assume he needs caretaker? Every illness so serious need caretaker? Change of diet need so much? What about spending less now cause stopped partying ( assume still partying lol)... what about decided to cut dancing class or eating or mahjong sessions...

When ppl say assume already FI means he alresdy think of all contingencies lah.. insurance ppl like u think of all scenarios to “scare” ppl into buying .. quite unethical

This post has been edited by aspartame: Aug 10 2020, 09:06 PM

I believe anyone that is "good" is someone who would help you and be on your team.
And to get there, maybe it's best if we both know where you stand financially, your cashflow, your affordability, and your objectives.
Only then could we begin to understand what you need to make it happen.

So we worked out what you need, and you want to buy a product that we both know you need. How do you know you can confidently buy from this agent?
Maybe arrange for the sales appointment at their agency office.
This gives you the opportunity to get acquainted with their agency staff, and you can take a look at how things are run there.
If it's messy, maybe look for someone else?
If you like what you see, hey, come often! We also got down periods wan, sometimes you come visit us, we also very happy to see you.

So in short, how to spot a good agent? Go see their office and then maybe if you like what you see, and the approach checks all your boxes, open up to them about your finances, and visit them regularly. It's always a work in progress.

Just my 2 cents.

Changing the goal post again when I've set the base standard clearly for assumption purposes


Like I said, assumptions which may incur extra usage of funds needed, now you're adding in on top of my constant assumptions, for what?


Quite clearly I've set the assumptions and constants for the purpose of discussion and you haven't seem to come up with any proposal or proper answer but name calling instead, and on what ground do you have the right to say it's unethical ?

My summary is, you're a Troll.

after having paid them a visit, all the boxes checked out, then what if that agent starts with "buy now as this plan will gives you 20% return of your annual premium and just pay 6 yrs only then no need to pay more"? (as yklooi posted)

Chill bruh, I think he meant well.
Yes, there are a lot of "What ifs", that's why people buy insurance (or Kuda, Toto, Magnum or make trips to Genting).

Changing lifestyle is always good, just like how we review and readjust ourselves from time to time.
It's not about balance, but we do it because it is always a balancing process. We're always balancing, always readjusting.

In fact, the person want to buy or not, the person already bought.
It is only the difference between
1. buying from an insurance company (so premiums are paid to the insurance company)
or
2. buying from oneself (so the premiums are paid to his/her own banking account)

At the end of the day, we choose the route with less pain.
Regret due to paying premiums "for nothing";
or
Regret didn't buy or didn't buy enough.

Insurance is like that, betting also the same, play share market also the same.

Don't angry ah, he meant well.
Always good to have good reminders around mah.
Like having a mom around.



I really really miss my mom bruh...

Unless that also checks one of your boxes lah...
Otherwise, why linger around?

If lidat also you stay and still buy, you better find out what coffee the bugger serve you.
Must be some damn good coffee.

may be serve by pretty insurance lady

so the questionnaire to check as "no buy" if the agent mentioned "buy now as this plan will gives you 20% return of your annual premium and just pay 6 yrs only then no need to pay more"?

what else?

as a reasonable consumer, if someone throws a paper at you that read as such. Read the fine print, look for guarantees, who is the company providing this.

No such info ? time to run off and have a coffee at Starbucks and chill.

What else ?

Let's see

1# This insurance hor, RM1,000,000 payout upon death, RM1 monthly only*

2# This insurance hor, pay 2 years only, then no need pay for life

3# This insurance hor, give 20% return per annum and pay 5 years only

Actually can't think of anything more ridiculous to say lol, maybe if you come across bizarre news, let me know

If the person is selling you what you don't need, not aligned with your objectives, then why buy leh?

What else ah, I also not very sure.
But I'd love to discuss the topic with you to better improve on my training to my agents.
Would you be so kind to help me?

Er... suddenly I am summarised as a troll.. lol...

Once a person has achieved FI, if he continues to buy CI insurance, he is gambling...

I always argue with facts.. not anger... anger is not in my dictionary at all...

1. If insurance is needed when building wealth and family is at risk of losing the main income earner, insurance is needed... when I pay for such insurance premiums...it never cross my mind that I regret paying for nothing... if one regrets, he does not understand insurance at all

2. When insurance is deemed not needed ... e.g, CI insurance not needed after achieving FI, I dun regret didn’t buy or didn’t buy enough .... if think like that , might as well as u regret u didn’t keep buying rm500 big and small on your birthday 4D and one day it came out first price and u could have gotten 2.5mil 1st price money ... or u didn’t sailang on TopGlove last 3 months when the price is obviously going through the roof.....or regret u should dump your insurance premium into monthly installments for a landed house 10 years ago and sitting on a million profit instead of “burnt “ premiums.. lol

This post has been edited by aspartame: Aug 10 2020, 11:09 PM

I can only find 1 news but it's 2016, but this is on signature forgery, not about false promotion of insurance product

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/ex-ai...rance-scam-case

Former AIA insurance agent Sally Low pleaded guilty yesterday to five charges of fraud and cheating, including using forged documents to dupe a businessman into buying a fake US$5.06 million (S$6.9 million) AIA Thank You insurance policy in 2002.

This is the second time she has pleaded guilty as she retracted her first guilty plea in June 2014.

Low, 40, faced a total of 21 charges - four for cheating, 11 for fraudulent use of forged documents, four that are under the Corruption, Drug Trafficking and other Serious Crimes (Confiscation of Benefits) Act, one theft of gooseberries and an attempted suicide in 2012.

Yesterday, she pleaded guilty to three charges of cheating, one charge of fraudulent use of forged documents and one of moving crime proceeds to a bank account in Hong Kong. The other 16 charges were taken into consideration. The sentencing is likely to be later this month. Low remains on bail.

The long-awaited criminal trial started last Monday and on the third day, Low's sixth lawyer, Mr Adrian Wee of Characterist LLC, discharged himself from representing her as she had made an allegation against him.

Lawyer Mr Wee told the court Low (above) made an allegation against him. But it is not publicly known what the allegation is.
Related Story
Ex-AIA agent's sixth lawyer discharges himself amid trial
Low is said to have "perpetrated an elaborate and prolonged scheme of deception" on an Indonesian couple to make them part with their money, to her benefit.
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Hearing starts in case against former AIA agent
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Ex-AIA agent takes stand for insurer over fake U$5m policy sold to couple
Representing her yesterday was Mr Sunil Sudheesan of Quahe Woo & Palmer LLC. He and his uncle, the late Mr Subhas Anandan, had previously acted for her on the same case.

Deputy Public Prosecutor Hon Yi highlighted in his statement of facts that a forensic scientist had opined that it was unlikely that Low's customer, Mr Ong Han Ling, 78, was the writer of the signatures in the insurance application form which Low submitted to AIA.

The saga has seen many twists and turns since The Straits Times broke the story six years ago.

It began in late 2002, when Mr Ong was allegedly sold a fake policy by Low, then an AIA agent. He and his wife were told by Low that they would receive guaranteed annual fixed returns of 6 per cent and 7.5 per cent on the US dollar and Singdollar components of the plan.

Mr Ong claimed that after he remitted the premium, Low, without his knowledge or consent, used the funds to buy four AIA policies for him, his wife and their daughter.

He alleged that midway through the tenure of the AIA Thank You policy, Low deceived him into giving the insurance proceeds from three of the unauthorised policies to her by use of fabricated computer errors. Her scheme came to light in 2008 after Mr Ong learnt from AIA that the Thank You policy was bogus.

The insurer made a police report against Low and sacked her in December 2009. Mr Ong made a police report against Low in January 2010 for allegedly cheating him of money. He sued her for damages totalling US$2.25 million and $2.99 million.

In May 2011, she was charged with 19 criminal offences, including cheating the Ongs, using forged documents and money laundering.

In December 2013, Low pleaded guilty to two charges of cheating, one charge of fraudulent use of forged documents and one charge of moving crime proceeds to a bank account in Hong Kong, with the other 15 charges taken into consideration.

She retracted her guilty plea six months later. Low also claimed she was a victim of a ploy with Mr Ong to cheat AIA instead.

Low, who was made bankrupt by her previous set of lawyers, had her sentencing date postponed several times. She had previously admitted herself to the Institute of Mental Health but was certified fit to plead and stand trial.

Meanwhile, the Ongs are suing AIA and Motion Insurance Agency for negligence and lack of care. AIA is alleging that the Ongs are in a conspiracy with Low to defraud AIA and has asked Low to be its witness.

maybe post 1283 by yklooi can help provide a stage for training scenario in which the agent will act incapacitated as per yklooi scenario then listen to what or how others do the presentation to filter out "good", so so or not good to have?