Ok thanks for info.

Oh no below 4...

We shall wait for the annual report.

Did he tell you Maybank is owned by PNB and he can't say bad things about his boss?

Anyway, the annual report for ASM 2 will be available on the official website from 31st of Oct onwards for those interested in the finances of the funds. nexona88 It's time to check the figures.

Oh he is an insider then. Next time can dig more stuffs from him and post here.

As for GBP ya, missed that boat too.

Moral hazard identified

Results do come from what they do.

Fair enough. But PNB's own investment decisions may influence how much they can pay out to ASNB funds. You can't just expect PNB to be supporting ASNB funds forever.

Anyway, we will see the numbers very soon.

It's not too difficult. Throughout the 1990s were the golden years for South East Asia especially Malaysia and Singapore (of course ended in 97-98 crisis). Pre-crisis MY deposit rates back then already around 7 to 8% p.a.

https://tradingeconomics.com/malaysia/deposit-interest-rate (click the MAX button to see the full chart)

Add a 3% risk premium on top of that, you get 10%. Not unreasonable mathematically speaking.



This post has been edited by TOS: Oct 5 2022, 05:48 PM

https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy

Uhmm if you mean foreign reserves, compared to 1997 all 4 countries are in better shape. But relatively speaking we are behind SG, Thailand and Indonesia.

See slide 70 (top left corner chart): https://uob.listedcompany.com/newsroom/2022...Y0A5F5818.1.pdf

Thanks for the updates.



PNB injected 107.7 million MYR, and drew down another 122 million MYR from past "reserves". Both together accounted for 1/5 of this year's pre-expense distribution.

I have emailed ASNBCare to ask for the full list of portfolio details, will update you guys if they have given me the details.

ASNB sent me the excel file this afternoon.

As promised above, please find the excel file below (zipped due to LYN forum requirement). I have added GICS industry classifications and done some simple statistics.

 Senarai_Pelaburan_dari_segi_Peratusan_Nilai_Pasaran_Berbanding_dengan_NAB_Tabung_ASM2__31_Ogos_2022.zip ( 29.02k ) Number of downloads: 114


Enjoy.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 9 2022, 11:28 PM

ASM 3 2022 annual report has been published: https://www.asnb.com.my/pdf/produk/ANNUALRE...092022%20V2.pdf



I have emailed ASNB Care for the full list of investment portfolio. Will update you guys when they reply me.

Ya, that's shown in the report. ASM3's figures look kind of healthier compared to ASM2 because of the more aggressive reduction in fund expenses (-60% vs last year for ASM 3 vs ASM2's -35% yoy).

And this very big difference is attributed to management fee reduction of 50% yoy. It used to be 1% of NAV, but has been reduced to 0.51% of NAV.



By the way, I notice an error in ASM 3's annual report. If you check item 6 on the management fee charges (Yuran Pengurus, page 31/40 of the PDF), ASM3 will state that the management fee is 1% of NAV. But if you check ASM2's 2022 AR, it's stated as 0.51%. So, here's an interesting accounting exercise. You try to use the quoted management fee figure to deduce the NAV per unit and check if they are equal to 1.00 as "advertised" for both funds, respectively.

Let's start with ASM3.

Management fee for ASM3 = 74,854,811 MYR (see page 23/40 of ASM 3 AR PDF). Total net asset value = 74,854,811/0.01 = 7,485,481,100 MYR. Divide this number by the total number of units = 15,277,628,615.72 (see page 6/40 of ASM 3 AR PDF), you get NAV value of 0.48996.

Shouldn't NAV be 1? No worries, now do the same using ASM 2's figure and see.

Management fee for ASM2 = 119,659,495 MYR (see page 23/40 of ASM 2 AR PDF). Total net asset value = 119,659,495/0.0051 = 23,462,646,078.4 MYR. Divide this number by the total number of units = 23,463,081,607.32 (see page 6/40 of ASM 2 AR PDF), you get NAV value of 0.99998, which is about 1.

So, I suspect ASM 3's figure should have been somewhere around 0.5% instead of 1%. Let's assume management fee is 0.5% of NAV and recalculate the NAV of ASM 3, (74,854,811/0.005)/15,277,628,615.72 = 0.9788 which is about 1.00.

Hence the error. Have fun with accounting.

Fair disclosure: I am not an "accounting" course student. Please verify the figures with an accredited accountant for confirmation, if in doubt.

This post has been edited by TOS: Dec 1 2022, 02:43 PM

Ya, at least they deserve some applaud for voluntarily reducing management fees. Private fund managers who care about their own profits and salaries won't do that at all. (Look at FSM- and POEMS' eUT-listed funds and you can deduce that).

Capital gains and loses are part and parcel of investments. ASNB funds' Achilles' heel is that their NAVs are fixed yet they are expected to pay out dividends annually, regardless of market conditions. In poor and bearish market conditions, those figures can't be covered up. They will recover when market recovers.

PNB's own proprietary fund, as the "blackbox" is called, is mentioned a few times in PNB's own book: In Trust: A History of PNB. You can read more about it by finding the book in most public libraries in Malaysia.

You shouldn't bother too much with those long paragraphs. Read those long sentences like a bedtime story will be more than sufficient.

This post has been edited by TOS: Dec 1 2022, 03:49 PM

It's official on Twitter just a moment ago.

This post has been edited by TOS: Dec 22 2022, 01:17 PM

Ah no wonder you know ladderring strategy in SG T-bills. Must be accountant in SG.

So you spotted something wrong with ASNB's financial statements. PNB didn't publish their own proprietary fund's statements, so I can't tell their financial status although I do notice their injections into ASNB funds can sometime reach 20% of the ASMX funds' dividends.

When an ACCA chartered accountant suggests something is not right, you ought to be more careful. The underlying fund holdings are securities (stocks and bonds), not bank deposits.

I am actually curious what sort of accounting tricks did ASNB/PNB use to keep the NAV constant at RM 1 per unit. I can think of 2 ways. One is to issue more units during downturns, but that would dilute previous unitholders' stake (and hence their returns) and due to the racial quota, they will have to issue twice the intended units, some of which would not be fully subscribed.

Another way is a bit more risky, which is to assume the storm will come and go and mark the securities at less often to smoothen out the "market" value or deliberately leave some margins by registering less profits than otherwise during bull run and mark down less losses than otherwise during a bear turn.

Not sure which one or some combination of them are used? Maybe ikanbilis can shed some light on this?

Hmm not sure which SD are you referring to? Can't think of a company named SD lol

There is no "magic" in the world of finance, there's only "creative accounting".

But ya you are right, caveat emptor.

PNB has difficulties producing ASM3's 2022 full list of investment, it seems...

First response was from Dec 2 last year.



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Emailed them last week to track status and they replied today that they didn't hear anything yet.