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 Interactive Brokers (IBKR), IBKR users, welcome!

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SUSTOS
post Sep 2 2022, 07:49 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 2 2022, 03:54 PM)
Planning to buy some HK REITS in IBKR to collect dividends, any sifus know whether IBKR charging fees for corporate actions such as dividend reinvestment plan etc.?
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There are no charges for corporate actions such as dividend reinvestment plans in HK.

Why didn't you consider S-REITs "to collect dividends"?
SUSTOS
post Sep 2 2022, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 2 2022, 08:30 PM)
Currently using Singapore brokers for S-REITs and planning to use IBKR for HK REITs.  HKD is like a proxy for USD as it's pegged to USD.  Is this a good plan?
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Uhmm is there any specific reason to use different brokers for different exchanges securities? Diversification? That's perfectly fine.

If you want USD REITs it's best you directly go for US REITs rather than trying to bet on the USD/HKD peg. Perhaps in the future, HKD will be peg to CNY/CNH we won't know.

For HK, the main REIT to buy will be Link REIT, but these few years the rent chargeable by Link for its "suburb" stores (retail properties) has risen almost to market rent, so there's little upside opportunity for Link, which is why you see them aggressively going overseas for M&A recently in search of growth. The yield looks nice however, 4-5%.

Other REITs are smaller ones like Fortune, Champion or Chinese ones like YueXiu etc. In general, the investment environment here won't be the same as Singapore (it's not that retail-investor friendly like Singapore). And for REITs with HK properties, zero-covid policy and lack of Chinese immigrants coming means the rent is still subdued unlike SG.

So, that's something to take note.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 2 2022, 08:39 PM
SUSTOS
post Sep 2 2022, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 2 2022, 08:48 PM)
I was using DBS Vickers Singapore for HK stocks and paying custodian fees, dividends handling fees and etc.  Switching to IBKR should save more.
US REITs dividends we have to pay 30% witholding tax right?
Yes, there are not that many HK REITs to choose from when compared to S-REITs.. I will consider again.  Thanks for your inputs smile.gif
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DBS Vickers is only good for local SGX stocks purchase via CDP if judged by pricing. tongue.gif

You are right, switching to IB will save more.

Yes, US REIT dividends will be charged 30% WHT but it's the after-tax dividend yield which matters. Don't be put off by the 30% WHT. The market will price in the 30% WHT (so do you) when they (and you) compute the dividend yield and decide on a reasonable purchase price, so it's factored in anyway.
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Sep 4 2022, 07:51 AM)
Sure. When I have the chance to temporary working at Switzerland, will share the info on opening a bank account. I saw my colleague used UBS.

SIX do not command high valuations but like you said it is their blue chips and been very very stable, so are both of their economy and currency. I would say, this is a market that worth to be look into. And also, their central bank is listed in the SIX too and been earning very nice profits. Hard to goes wrong with SIX hahahaha

That’s true, i was too excited and too eager to have such conversation that I ended up didn’t thought much of the consequences behind. And I think forum is a sunset platform so wonder where would a neutral investment discussion will take place other than lowyat forum

You are the first that mentioned Swiss pharma and Nestle in SIX that i knew. I knew dividend magic used to mentioned Nestle but that is in Bursa
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Let's continue here since that's USD/MYR thread. biggrin.gif

Whoa UBS drool.gif I wonder if a typical white/blue collar worker can open a UBS account that easily...

The Swiss economy works pretty much because money keeps pouring in due to its tax haven status, strengthening its local currency, the CHF, as a result. An important risk you must bear is that economists have long observed that the Swiss Franc (CHF) has been overvalued for pretty much most of the time relative to major currencies like the Euro due to this money influx, resulting in negative deposit rates in Switzerland.

So if things turn sour, the CHF may quickly revert to its "normal" real exchange rate levels, resulting in potential forex lost on your investments denominated in CHF. The sudden appreciation of CHF from time to time has caused trouble to the MNCs like the Swiss pharma counters and Nestle, which report their earnings, cash flows, and pay dividends in CHF. This is another thing to note.

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One forum for a neutral investment discussion I would recommend is the Money Mind subforum by HardwareZone (HWZ for short) in Singapore. It's as mature as the Finance subforum here on Lowyat and you can learn far more than on Lowyat because in SG, there are more financial products available than in Malaysia (e.g., SG T-bills, SG saving bonds/SSB, SGS bonds, Medishield etc.)

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/forums/money-mind.210/

You can just be a lurker like me (no need to register any account, just read through the posts), or register an account and participate as you like.

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As for Ramjade's reply. laugh.gif Well, he is a "different" kind of investor and it's known here on Lowyat that his investment style stands out from the rest. It's prefectly fine if you don't follow him or follow him. But rest assured you can find things on SIX that NYSE/NASDAQ don't/can't provide in terms of valuations. Not all companies are the same, and no company shall always be the best and command the highest quality. Things change all the time. nod.gif

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 4 2022, 09:41 AM
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Sep 4 2022, 10:50 AM)
quite sure WHT is not priced in by the market... probably you mean diy investors...
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Uhmm...

Institutional investors surely have to price in the WHT right if they can count how much dividends needed to be withheld and the required dividend yields/returns from the stock in question, in an efficient market, that is. No?
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Sep 4 2022, 11:25 AM)
upfront WHT is a foreigner thing... there is no tax withholding for US companies and individuals, end of the year they get a dividend income statement for tax filing and pay at whatever tax bracket... and 401k accounts don't pay at all...

market only price in the dividend paid... so if the dividend is 30 cents...prices will drop 30 cents on ex-date before going about its way...
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But they have capital gain tax to pay right? Shouldn't a rational investor factor in CGT as well even if they don't have dividend WHT? (Except 401k that is. ) But of course CGT is taken in into sightly differently from dividend WHT.

And for dividend WHT I think it also depends on proportion of foreign shareholding ownership. If the discounted price is not deep enough on ex-date surely a foreign shareholder can price a stock differently from a loal/domestic shareholder, thus a "balanced" outcome would be somewhere between the fully-discounted share price (drop 30 cents) and the price after taking into account WHT (>30 cents), depending on local/foreign shareholdering.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 4 2022, 12:26 PM
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 4 2022, 12:27 PM)
They got tax loss harvesting too. Offset their capital gain tax by selling their loss.
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Fair enough. So if this is the case, we foreign investor need to add our own "discounts" to include dividend WHT tax when deciding on the right price to invest in the counters.

Thanks for info.
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Sep 4 2022, 03:31 PM)
And for dividend WHT I think it also depends on proportion of foreign shareholding ownership. wht and foreign shareholding are unrelated things...adr aside
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Well, in theory, foreigners will value the stocks after taking into account WHT whereas domestic US shareholder (assume we are talking about US shares) will value the stock without WHT, so this causes 2 "theoretical" prices in the markets which will converge according to the proportion of US/foreign shareholders (e.g. 70%*10 USD + 30%*7 USD). The same should be applicable to other countries' markets too.

But it's not easy to observe the 2 prices as there are valuations to take into account and like you say market makers pushing price where they want to go. biggrin.gif


SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 4 2022, 05:22 PM)
Anyone knows whether it is possible to transfer my DBS Vickers Singapore trading account balance say in HKD to IBKR directly by initiating the funding in IBKR (in this case depositing in HKD)?  I am exploring the cheapest way to transfer the HKD to IBKR.  If not possible may have to open a multicurrency account with DBS.
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If you mean transfer uninvested cash in HKD to IBKR, it's best to just use Wise multicurrency account to transfer directly.

Otherwise if you mean transfer the stocks held at DBS Vickers SG, you either apply to transfer out the holdings from DBS Vickers (and initiate a transfer in application at IB's side) or you sell all the stocks from DBS Vickers account, transfer cash to IB via Wise and repurchase the shares via IB again. You can choose either method but there are trade-offs (transfer in/out in one go is easy but there are transfer out charges at DBS Vickers, buy/sell individually is cheaper but is tedious/cumbersome if you have many holdings at DBS Vickers in the first place.)
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 07:06 PM

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Pharmaceuticals sector

US lab at the centre of legal fight over Zantac and cancer
Pharmaceutical companies have taken aim at group whose research helped spark a wave of lawsuits

by Jamie Smyth in New York (2 HOURS AGO)

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SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 07:11 PM

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Oh this is how it looks like in Goldman Sachs... Pity our female friends...

Corporate culture

‘I got mooed at for expressing milk at Goldman Sachs’
A female banker’s riveting memoir raises yet more questions about standards of conduct on Wall Street

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The book Bully Market can be found online, can PM me if you want a copy for self-reading.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 4 2022, 07:14 PM
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 4 2022, 09:13 PM)
I mean transferring the uninvested cash in HKD to IBKR.  How to use Wise multicurrency account to transfer directly?  I still need to request DBS Vickers SG to transfer to WISE (still there is RM20K limit right?) and then from WISE to IBKR?  I would like to see whether can directly transfer the uninvested cash in HKD from DBS Vickers SG to IBKR directly.
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Oh I rarely encounter this situation. Usually peope transfer out securities, not cash.

Maybe you can contact DBS Vickers and see if there are any charges for transferring cash out in HKD. I am very sure if you have a DBS My Account, you can temporarily park your HKD cash there first, then transfer out to Wise (the limit is determined by the receiving account, HKD in this case: https://wise.com/help/articles/2932155/guid...-hkd-transfers) Then from Wise to IBKR in HKD.

But in any case, it would be risky since the transfer from Wise to IB is not via your own bank account. If you have a bank account in HK or a HKD bank account, would make life a lot easier.

If you don't have HKD bank account, it's best you ask to initiate a manual transfer between brokers but with some transfer out fees. That's the most straightforward way.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 4 2022, 09:59 PM
SUSTOS
post Sep 4 2022, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 4 2022, 10:07 PM)
I don't have any HK bank or HKD bank account.  OK, I will see whether can do direct manual transfer between DBS Vickers SG and IBKR directly.
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Just curious, how did you end up with HKD in DBS Vickers if you don't have HK or HKD bank accounts? You converted to HKD inside DBS Vickers?
SUSTOS
post Sep 5 2022, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(harmonics3 @ Sep 5 2022, 10:49 AM)
Thanks for your tip, I managed to open the "my account" within seconds through the digibank app.  I will request DBS Vickers to transfer the uninvested HKD to "my account" hopefully with zero fees and then initiate the HKD transfer to IBKR. 

PS: Is it necessary to close my existing SGD saving account?
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Do let us know about the outcome. smile.gif I am also interested in trying DBS HKD account to IBKR. That way I can close some of my HK bank accounts!

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Back on campus. FT and BT softcopies will be available starting from tomorrow. biggrin.gif

Sanofi SA

Sanofi nominates SocGen boss Frédéric Oudéa as chair
Change comes as French pharma group pours money into immunology and cancer research

by Sarah White and Leila Abboud in Paris (5 HOURS AGO)

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SUSTOS
post Sep 6 2022, 11:04 AM

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FT 060922: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Ab880wE89...iew?usp=sharing
SUSTOS
post Sep 6 2022, 10:55 PM

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Don't simply buy into a vision... especially the ones from Silicon Valley. laugh.gif
SUSTOS
post Sep 7 2022, 11:02 AM

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FT 070922: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z9UqTZ2Hlt...iew?usp=sharing
SUSTOS
post Sep 8 2022, 01:28 PM

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FT 080922: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19wEmRUikDS...iew?usp=sharing

Inside Business: Aerospace

Business will be reluctant to pay the price of supersonic flight.

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Companies and Markets: Tide is high for Blackstone-backed music rights group Hipgnosis after market turns

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FT Lex Opinions

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This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 8 2022, 01:33 PM
SUSTOS
post Sep 8 2022, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Sep 8 2022, 02:42 PM)
haha, i actually went and asked my colleague about it and you were right. It is indeed extremely hard to open a local bank account in Switzerland, as they mostly only allow permanent residents and not those temporary workers with temporary working visa in Switzerland. They will also asked a lot of questions including do we plan to move the funds from Malaysia to Swiss or not, as they will preferred once we have the bank account, we will be moving funds to their countries instead.

So yes, we needed to undergo an interview and answer a lot of questions but still no guaranteed can opened a bank account. My colleague was lucky as UBS allowed him to open, but colleague B that attempted to open the same account with UBS after months later was not able to do so, as UBS stated they required a special approval letter from their city council and the city council told colleague B there's no such letter, so colleague B was forced to go asked another bank and managed to get it. (Have to try to open bank accounts from multiple banks and see which banks allow)

Yep, I concur with you as well, if things turn sour, CHF most likely won't be affected much and able to regain its stability fast. Just that, Ramjade has pointed out the high 35% tax charges.  Besides that, banks in Swiss do not provides interest due to the robust and stability of their markets and CHF, which means, we needed to pay a monthly maintenance fees to the bank for having a bank account.

So with all these additional charges, I am not really sure does its benefits still outweigh the cons? Unless you are talking about investing huge sum into Swiss? Even is that, still need to bear so many taxation charges.

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Thank you so much for such a recommendation. I will have a look into SG's hardwarezone notworthy.gif

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Hahaha totally understand both you and Ramjade. Like I told Ramjade also because the company i am working in has ties with Switzerland, this enables me to have the opportunities to be tap into the SIX, so ended up I am considering this. But by default, most of my investment mainly in SNP 500 only. So both of you have been providing valuable insights and helping me to make decision, which is why I would like to say, I take every single advice very seriously and taken into account to see if it suit my investment style or not. notworthy.gif Thank you so much
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Thanks for info. I wonder which business are you involved in which has ties to Switzerland. Let me guess. Nestle? Swiss pharma? Cement/building materials? Commodities? (Glencore is Anglo-Swiss) Shipping? (MSC?)

You are right regarding moving funds to Switzerland. Surely the bankers want to hold you money and invest on behalf of you. (And take a huge cut from the fees laugh.gif) That explains the strong CHF!

For colleague B, which "another bank" is that? I only know UBS and Credit Suisse have retail banking services, the rest are private banks. So the "another bank" is Credit Suisse?

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Good observation on the negative interest rates. SNB has tried very hard to tame down CHF by reducing interest rates to negative levels. But the negative interest rates will only kick in above certain levels of holdings. Take IBKR for example, the negative interest rates only kick in with cash balances above 50k CHF https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/accou...erest-rates.php The lower limit is introduced to allow some form of savings in banks for the local residents and better target those who deposit tonnes of cash in the local Swiss banks. After all it's the HNWIs that inflate the CHF, not the locals there.

Most likely you will invest your money in the capital (and possibly debt, if interest rates are high) markets of Switzerland, so you will leave very little cash balance in your Swiss bank account. It's like Singapore, Singporeans put their money in CPF, SSBs (SG Saving Bonds), SG T-bills, Notes and the stock markets. Very few will put their money in FDs, which is the same case in Switzerland. The interest rate level is kept low to force capital to move to riskier assets. You won't let you SGD or CHF sit idle in SG/Swiss bank accounts (unless liquidity is needed, e.g. in business accounts etc.).

As for dividends, don't be put off by the 35% WHT, you can claim back 20% (i.e. taxed 15%) should you submit Form 60 to the FTA. This is especially so if you have large holdings in Switzerland/CHF-based counters. The opportunity costs are the mailing charge (around 15 MYR), transportation cost from home to post office and printing cost for forms and supporting documents, probably adding up to 20 ringgit.

Let's say we construct a portfolio of 4 NESN shares, 1 ROG share, and 5 NOVN shares (around 400 CHF each counter = 1200 CHF in total), annual dividends = 2.8*4 + 9.3 + 3.1*5 = 36 CHF per annum. 20% of that would be 7.2 CHF = approx. 30 MYR (i.e. 70% higher than the opportunity costs.)

The only problem is the receiving part as you will need a CHF account to receive the payments or risk unfavourable exchange rates.

But even without any WHT refund, you won't lose much as SIX counters' dividend yields are similar to their US counterparts, 2-3% p.a. while the dividend WHT rate is only worse by another 5% (35% vs 30%). So, you are looking at an additional 5% of 2-3% p.a of opportunity cost over USD investments (on a like-to-like basis, i.e., baring high-flying tech counters). And don't forget about CHF's appreciation against USD, that can easily swamp the "5% of 2-3% p.a.".

So, yes, benefits outweigh cost no matter how I see it, not to mention diversification in geography, forex and industries too.

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Ramjade style, you know lah. Everything US, everything tech, must be cash-rich, must pay 15% "annualized" option premiums laugh.gif

Apart from US all other counters are like shit to him laugh.gif

Not everyone agrees for certain.

Ram is right as historical data shows that SIX counters have lower risk premium compared to other markets because of "Swiss neutrality" during the WWI and WWII periods. So, you should be expecting 6-7% capital gain + 2-3% dividend yields for 20-30 years in constant currency with SIX blue chips. Not high-flying techie stuffs, but boring Nestle and Swiss pharma work for many newbies and those looking for quality long-term investments. wink.gif Investments can be a way of living too, we get to know the Swiss better via our CHF investments.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 8 2022, 08:04 PM
SUSTOS
post Sep 9 2022, 11:57 AM

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FT 090922: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y8MLXeaHPZ...iew?usp=sharing

As you can guess, Queen Elizabeth II's story occupied the first 3 pages of today's FT.

Some other FT reads on Companies & Markets section:

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FT Lex:

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