Ho, it is rare to see this in this forum

Amen! And I like to encourage you to share not only this truth not only as a fact but its practical experiences XD.

Really, the Christian life is an impossibility. It is actually the living of the Triune God who went through a process to be the Spirit in the believers.

We have the assurance that God is our Father and that the Spirit indwells us. But how can the Triune God be our Father and how can the Spirit indwell us? Today we Christians have God as our Father and the indwelling Spirit because of the processes through which the Triune God passed in order to be dispensed into us.

We need to see the fact that the Triune God lives in each of us. This fact should be not only a doctrine, revelation, or vision but also our daily experience. Because the Triune God lives in us, we can live Him. This needs to be our daily experience.

For instance, we can apply this focus to Ephesians 5. A husband is able to love his wife because God, who is love, lives in him and becomes his love as he lives God. Thus, a husband’s love for his wife should be not his own ethical virtue but the issue of God living in him. Similarly, a wife’s submission should not be merely an ethical virtue but the issue of God living in her and her living God. We can apply this focus to every virtue mentioned in the Bible, such as humility, kindness, long-suffering, and forbearance. These should not be ethical virtues like those taught by Confucius but the expression and issue of God living in us and our living Him. Most Christian teachers have made the virtues in the Bible into ethical teachings because they have missed the focus of the Bible, which is that the Triune God, after passing through His processes and accomplishing everything necessary for the fulfilling of His eternal purpose, became the Spirit in order to enter into man and live in man so that man may live Him.

Romans 8 reveals that the Triune God as the Spirit lives in us so that we may live Him. When we live Him, He becomes everything to us: our gospel preaching, our shepherding, and our virtues, such as lowliness, meekness, long-suffering, love, truthfulness, kindness, tenderheartedness, forgiveness, compassion, bearing one another, thankfulness, subjection, and obedience, which are mentioned in Ephesians 4 and Colossians 3. Every virtue in the Bible is the issue of the indwelling God.

We just have to enjoy Him by applying Him in our human spirit so that we partake of His nature (2 Pet. 1:4) and let God be dispensed into us to live out of us

That ... is not an easy topic to describe ... just like it is hard to describe what human life is. Also, I am still failing and lacking in this matter of living Christ and of being led by the Spirit in our daily life.

The matter of the leading in Romans 8 is so crucial because it help to show the composition of the Spirit’s residing (divine person), God’s life giving (divine life and its divine laws), and our putting to death. As long as you experience these three things, you are being led by the Spirit of God.

The Christian life is not a story of a single person. The Christian life is a story of two persons living together. This is marvelous! These two live not only by coexistence but by coinherence.

As a person who has been regenerated and saved, you have the Spirit of God residing in you. This is basic. The is the base for God to give His divine life to your mortal body. Even the matter of giving life to your mortal body is an issue of the giving life into our spirit and the giving life into our mind. The giving life to our mortal body includes the giving life to our spirit and our mind. This means that God is giving life to our entire being, not only to the spirit and not only to our mind but also to our body. God is giving life; He is supplying you with the life essence into your entire being. Every life has its substance, its nature, its tastes, its tendencies, its likes, and its dislikes. This is why to follow the leading of the Spirit is not so easy for us, because we were born of and with the human life. But now another life is within us to be an element of our daily living, and this life is absolutely different from our natural life in its substance, in its nature, in its taste, in its tendency, in its likes, and in its dislikes. So it is not so easy for us to follow this leading.

What then is our responsibility? Our responsibility is just to cooperate by putting to death the practices of our body. To put to death the practices of the body means to put our natural living to death. A person who has been regenerated and who has the residing Spirit within him giving life should not live any longer in a natural way. The way to put the practices of the body to death is simply not to live in a natural way. If naturally you like to talk, put that to death. If naturally you like to eat a lot of dessert, put that to death. If naturally you love sports, put that to death. To put to death all the natural living is to put to death the practices of the body. It does not mean that you don't eat dessert, do sports or talk .... but the source of the person behind all these actions is not longer natural.

When you have the residing of the Spirit, the life giving of God, and your putting to death, you will have the leading of the Spirit. At that time it will be so easy for you to set your mind on the spirit and to walk according to the spirit. Within, you will have a lot of life supply; without, you will have the righteousness of the law. When you walk according to the spirit, the righteousness of God will be fulfilled in you. You do not need to fulfill it; it will be fulfilled in you. Within, you have the life supply, and without, you have the life expression. The life supply within you is the Spirit, and the life expression without is righteousness. According to 2 Corinthians 3:6 and 9, this is the ministry that ministers the Spirit and righteousness to people, so it is the ministry of the Spirit as well as of righteousness. This is the new testament ministry. This is the new covenant ministry, ministering the Spirit within and righteousness without. Within, you will be filled with life supply, and without, you will have a full expression of righteousness.

Er.. more can be said on the divine life with its divine law but also a divine person within us.

This is why there is such a term: the law of the Spirit of life. The leading of the Spirit is composed of these elements. It is composed with the divine life and with the divine life’s law and with the divine person, the Spirit. These three things began to be within us at the time when we believed in the Lord Jesus.

Among the three, the law is the easiest one for us to follow because it is a kind of automatic power. It really regulates. Sometimes it constrains you. Not only does it forbid you, but it also sometimes constrains you and restricts you. Sometimes it just would not let you go. All of us have experienced that when we were intending to do certain things, there was a strong automatic forbidding within us. There was a strong automatic restriction within us. Something within us restricted us from doing the thing we intended to do. So even though we were not willing to follow, we had no way, no alternative, but to follow, because there was a kind of constraining power within us. That is the law. Our desire and our preference may be so strong that temporarily they conquer the law of the Spirit of life. But eventually the law of the Spirit of life will overcome.

The person is even harder to describe.

The best example is as human beings, we all can testify that in married life there is a big problem; that is, there is always another person, sometimes praising you but often interfering with you. Sometimes not only the complaints but also even the praises of the wife are not so pleasant. On the one hand, we like to have a spouse, but on the other hand, we do not like to have someone with us all the time. There is always the bothering, telling us what to do or telling us how much to eat.

We have another person, Christ the Spirit, living in us. It is so bothersome because He, another person, takes the lead. I do not believe many Christians have realized what kind of bothering person the Holy Spirit is. He is really bothering because our intention, our preference, our desire, our aspiration, is always absolutely different from His. This may sometimes cause us to be tired of being a Christian, but we just cannot quit. Whenever we were tired or bored and wanted to quit, Someone said no. He is a real person contradicting us all the day long in the things that we do. Sometimes even in our reading of the Bible, He would not agree with the portion we want to read. He wants us to read another portion.

.... ah ... I think that is good enough.

Guys ... you're all are falling into the realm of tree of knowledge of good and evil ... XD

That PS .... er ..... no ... we have to remember this principle ... the OT is a type, a figure of Christ and its spiritual realities. We must interprete it typologically.

In chapter sixteen we have a type, a shadow, of God’s redemption, which, at the time this book was written, was still to come. According to God’s concept and in His divine economy, there is the need of redemption.

Because the Old Testament time was not the time for redemption to take place, a type, shadow, of the coming redemption was needed. This shadow is the propitiation in Leviticus 16. In this propitiation four of the five basic offerings presented in chapters one through seven are involved: the burnt offering, the meal offering, the sin offering, and the trespass offering. The one offering not involved yet is the peace offering. Later, particularly in chapter nineteen, we shall see that the propitiated people enjoyed the peace offering. Therefore, in chapter sixteen, the propitiation is fully applied, but the result of the four offerings-the peace offering-is not yet applied.

At the end of chapter sixteen, everything is wonderful. In type, this chapter signifies that we have been propitiated and that we may now enjoy Christ as the burnt offering and live on Him as the meal offering. Furthermore, we have come out of the camp to follow Him, the suffering One, bearing His reproach. What else do we need? It seems that we are not in need of anything. Using New Testament terms, we have been redeemed and, to some extent, replaced. We are living Christ as the life that is absolute for God (burnt offering), we are enjoying Him as our daily life supply (meal offereing), and we are following Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach and living a godly life. With us, everything is fine, but the situation around us is still very complicated. For this reason, there is the need of chapter seventeen.

Leviticus 17 is a reminder and a warning regarding the abuse of the sacrifices. To abuse the sacrifices is to apply them wrongly, improperly.

To take care of the blood is to take care of and to treasure the blood of Christ.

Verse 11 signifies that the blood of the Lord Jesus was shed on the cross for our redemption.
Verse 12-13 is showing us different bloods typify different beliefs. Every kind of blood signifies a belief. And we should reject other bloods (beliefs) other than the Lord Jesus.

For example: in v15
a) blood of that which dies of itself signifies the blood of one who sacrifices himself for the good of others, which blood cannot redeem us from our sins.
b) blood of that which is torn by beasts signifies the blood of one who is martyred by wild people, who are like beasts, which blood also is unable to redeem us from our sins.

You will realized almost every religion is based on either on one who sacrificed himself for the good of others, or on one who was martyred. To form a religion on such a basis is to receive a different blood.

Yet, the primary problem remains: our inward sin nature and nothing can redeem it except the Lord's blood.

Wah brother, the irony of Acts 15 where James gave this word. Hah .... I wish I could go on .... but not all subscribed or have the same understanding as I have toward James. But that is ok ... .... sometimes, brother, I also felt lazy to clarify my position on this. LOL

I can only say, James is a person must is a mixture of God's New Testament economy with the Old.

He was not strong in the revelation of God’s New Testament economy in Christ, but was still under the influence of the background of the old Judaic religion—to worship God with ceremonies and live a life in the fear of God. This is proved by Acts 21:20-24 and James 2:2-11.

In verse 21 James gives the reason for his judgment concerning the matter: "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who proclaim him in the synagogues, being read every Sabbath." Here we have the basis for James’ fellowship. He tells us that in solving the problem caused by the heretical Judaizers we need to take care of the fact that the law of Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. This is the reason James gives for charging the Gentiles to abstain from pollutions of idols, fornication, anything strangled, and blood.

Unfortunately, this solution could not have been satisfactory to Paul, who says in Galatians 2:19, “I through law have died to law that I might live to God.” In contrast to such a word, James’ fellowship causes the New Testament believers to return to considering the law. This indicates that the concluding word given by James was still under the influence of the Mosaic law, due to his heavy Judaic background. As we shall see, the influence of this background still remained even at the time Paul paid his last visit to Jerusalem (Acts 21:20-26).

At the end, whether one abstain from blood (which is biblical and consistent) or not, it is really irrevelant ... rather one lived to God and have the reality of God.

We tend to fall into this trap: that there are two different kinds of people: one kind does evil, and the other kind does good. According to good and evil, these two kinds of people are absolutely different. Yet in the matter of putting God aside and not giving God any place, they are absolutely the same. Just as those who do evil put God aside, so those who do good also put God aside. Just as those who do evil do not give God any room, so those who do good also do not give God any room. These two kinds of people behave differently-one does good and the other does evil; nevertheless, they have exactly the same kind of attitude toward God. Those who do evil give up the law, thereby rejecting God, and those who do good keep the law, thereby also rejecting God. The former forsake God by violating the law, while the latter forsake God by observing the law. Both groups of people have problems because of the law. The first group of people give up God because they have broken the law, whereas the second group forsake God because they consider that they have kept the law. Hence, we can see that both these conditions of rejecting God are related to the law.

Rather, God desire that man be filled with the God as his or her reality. Then the living out of this inward spiritual reality is "counted" in the eyes of God be in may in his or her action in abstaining from blood or not. For one could abstain yet inwardly be void of the reality of touching or gaining God. Then it is vanity!.

Er ... I think .... let's not get into conspiracy theory ... This conference was under the presiding of the Spirit (v. 28). There is no bad guy or good guy or any sides;

Yes, it is true that the first group of apostles and elders in Jerusalem should have taken care of this heretical teaching before it had the opportunity to spread to the Gentile churches. The fact that it was not dealt with in Jerusalem indicates that there were certain shortcomings with Peter and James. They must be held responsible for the situation. By the time this heresy spread to Antioch, it was too late for Paul and Barnabas to deal with it. This made it necessary for them to go up to Jerusalem in order to touch the source of the problem.

BUT, in Acts 15 we have the unique conference held by the apostles of the universal church and the elders of the local church in Jerusalem. Both were the leading ones in the Lord’s New Testament move on earth. There was no chairman. This conference was under the presiding of the Spirit (v. 28), the pneumatic Christ, the Head of the church (Col. 1:18) and the Lord of all (Acts 10:36). Acts 15:7 says, “Much discussion had taken place.” This indicated that everyone in the conference had the freedom to speak. The decision made was based on the testimony shared by Peter (vv. 7-11), the facts related by Barnabas and Paul (v. 12), and the concluding word given by James, who was the leading one among the apostles and elders in Jerusalem (12:7; 21:18; Gal. 1:19; 2:9) because of the influence he exercised over the believers through his piety.

Although he was deeply influenced by the Jewish religion, under the sovereignty of the Holy Spirit, he shut Judaism out of the church. Acts 15 opens the eyes of the church and allows the church to escape the bondage of Judaism and the rule of Jerusalem. Thus, the church can spread freely. Satan wanted to use Judaism and Jerusalem to control, limit, prohibit, and restrict the spread of the church. But God wanted to spread to the Gentiles, to the uttermost part of the earth.

It is a nice view of the early churchlife where all problems can be solved by proper fellowship in the Spirit under the leading of the Lord. There is no head, only the Lord Himself is.

So, let's drop the Paul vs James ... Paul vs Peter (later) ..... XD XD Even later ... Paul himself also falls to the same trap ... in Acts 16 ... If Paul had not been subdued by the Holy Spirit, the church could not have spread to Europe ...

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 13 2020, 01:00 PM

Maybe the overall view might helps ... a bit. Please kept in mind, that the OT is a type of Christ and His church.

At Mount Sinai God married Israel. He wanted to be to Israel as a husband to a wife, and He expected Israel to act as a wife toward Him. This is helpful in reading the book of Judges.

In writing the books of history, Samuel put Judges after Joshua to show us what kind of life Israel lived toward her Husband. For some reason, she did not have a heart to be the wife of Jehovah. As a wife, she forgot her Husband, left her Husband, and acted according to her own desires. Eventually, Israel became a harlot.

The book of Judges records seven cycles of Israel's miserable history of forsaking God and shows us how degraded and corrupt Israel had become.

In their degradation Israel became chaotic in three ways:

in government ~ everyone doing what is right in their own eyes

in worship (Judg 17-18) ~ becoming house of idols (Micah), confusing two place of worship -Dan vs Shiloh

in morality 19-21 (the sodomitical corruption in their morality and terrible slaugter amoung the tribes)

How is this applicable spirituallly? Israel is also a type of history of the church.

The last 2000 years, many times, when the church left Christ as the center, content and enjoyment, Her husband ---> full of the "houses of Micah", idols (replacements of Christ); divisions; etc etc When we uplift something other than Christ, it always lead to immorality for the sake of it.

I won't use the word figuratively in a very superficial way .... there is a spiritual reality to it. But I digress.

But hermeneutics is a pretty loaded terms these days ^^ ... but the major positions can be easily understood as 3 questions:

1. “I have read the poem, but what did the author intend?”
2. “I have read the poem, but what is the poem saying?”
3. “I have read the poem, but what do I make of it?”

I can only say simply, to only take any of them to the extremes or pick 1 or 2 & throw away the other .... will lead to a lot of "interesting" problems .... ah ... I digress again.....



But, the principle to hold fast to adhere to the literal meanings as much as possible is pretty much safer. It is only when a literal interpretation of some words in some visions, prophecies, and parables becomes too absurd and silly that we can interpret them spiritually. When God inspired men to write the Bible, He used words that are fully comprehensible to man. When we attempt to understand the Bible today, we must understand the thought of God strictly and accurately according to the letter of the words.

Although this kind of spiritualizing in the interpretation of the Bible is not bad and seems to be consistent with the Bible, it does have its problems.

Yet, one must going beyond the letter, historical events, and persons and things to explore and to receive the revelation of life hidden in it. If we are not coming to the Bible, to gain the Person of Christ in His riches to know God's intrinsic Being and His desire ..... the church ....


Sorry, if I am being vague, but things are not so simple *wink* without misunderstandings because we human being are too compliated.

Cheers.

Eh .... why no one shares anything.

I try to be succint in one post. There are two perspectives, you could say, Peter's and Paul's. Both are crucial and must be seen from God's economy to dispense Himself into man.

Peter's

Many believers are ignorant of the fact that the true and living God is not only a God of love, a God of grace, and a God of glory but also a God of government. God's government is His way of doing things -> His way of carrying out His administration in the universe—according to His will and according to His righteousness and holiness. So, this government is universal and deals with all His creatures that He may have a clean and pure universe (2 Pet. 3:13) in order to express Himself.

In the New Testament age this dealing begins from His chosen people we see that they are under God's governmental dealing for a positive purpose, regardless of the situation and environment they are in. Anything and everything that happens to them, whether persecution or any other kind of suffering (v. 6; 5:9), is just a part of God’s precious governmental dealing. Such a vision will perfect, establish, strengthen, and ground them (5:10) that they may grow in grace (2 Pet. 3:18).

We will realize that we need God's judgment, for although, we have been justified by grace through faith in Christ and His redemptive much remains in us that does not match God's righteousness and holiness. All the hindrances within our being to the growth and development of the divine life would be removed (2 Pet. 1:5-7), with the result that we will be qualified to receive the salvation of our souls at the Lord's coming. So anything and everything that happens to them, whether persecution or any other kind of suffering (v. 6; 5:9)

This means that as the result of the divine dispensing (see Paul's) in the divine economy and the divine judgment in the divine government, we will become the same as God in life, nature, and expression (but not, of course, in the Godhead nor as an object of worship).


Paul's

His vision is from the Christ as our life (Col 3:4)

Before passing through death and resurrection, God was merely the living God; the human element was not in Him. At that time man was on the earth, and God was in the heavens. After God passed through death and resurrected from death, something mysterious happened: God and man were fully mingled as one. Incarnation was a mingling of God and man, but it was God entering into man. And His resurrection, was bring man into God.

Here, I like to say that there is a distinction between the living God and the God of resurrection? The living God can perform many acts on man's behalf yet the nature of the living God cannot blend with the nature of man. When, on the other hand, the God of resurrection works, His very nature is wrought into the nature of man. When the living God has performed some act on your behalf, after that act as before it, He is still He and you are still you. His working on your behalf does not impart anything of His nature into you. The living God can work on behalf of man, but the nature of the living God cannot unite with the nature of man. On the other hand, when the God of resurrection works, He communicates Himself to man by that which He does for him.

When the children of Israel were in a hopeless situation, the living God opened a way for them across the Red Sea. The dividing of the Red Sea was a miracle that demonstrated to them that God was the living God, yet that miracle performed for them did not bring any measure of the life of God into them.
They witnessed many other miraculous acts but despite those and other wonders performed by God for them, nothing of God Himself was thereby imparted into them.

In contrast to this, the apostle Paul testifies to knowing not only the living God but also the God of resurrection. Paul was so sorely tried that he despaired even of living, but it was thus that he learned to trust in the God who raises the dead. When the God of resurrection acted on his behalf to raise him from the dead, that divine act not only accomplished something for Paul; it also communicated God's own nature to Paul.

What is the significance of suffering? This, that the devastation it brings to the old creation provides an opportunity for the God of resurrection to impart Himself to His creatures, so that they emerge from the death process with a divine element in their constitution. The primary purpose of suffering in this universe, particularly as it relates to the children of God, is that through it the very nature of God may be wrought into the nature of man. “If indeed our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is being renewed day by day.” Through a process of outward decay an inward process is taking place that is adding a new constituent to our lives.

Erm ... that's that ... if you need clarification on either ... do ask. Amen. P.S. The answer to Job requires revelation revealed in the NT (above - but I digress ...).

It is. Most take for granted but unfortunately it is lacking among believers

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to deceive the Holy Spirit and to put aside for yourself some of the proceeds of the land?

4 While it remained, was it not your own? And when it was sold, was it not under your authority? Why is it that you have contrived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.

Are you a Christian believer? Haven't seen you before in this thread

Oooo Jedi ... long time no see

Congrats! May the Lord continues to bless you to be a useful vessel and give to you the full knowledge of His will

You just got married?

I thought ..... some companies are having their employees back in office?

70 and above saints and children < 12 (some parent will still be with the children) are still not allowed -> I guess online will still go on for a while.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 14 2020, 10:10 AM

I am no Calvinist.

Maybe you want to share more on what is it that you need?

For someone to help you understand TULIP? To clarify?

Or ?

Hi brother,

That was not what I meant (as I am familiar with it). The topic is a pretty wide as this is a pretty debated topic. For discussion sake, it can be narrowed to what you really want to bring up?

Are you saying that based on your understanding (from your reading), it conflicts with TULIP? Then, so?

IMO, maybe what I can offer is never let your entering into the divine revelation of the Word be dictated or frustrated by a systematic position like Cal vs Arm.

You can never systematize the divine truths in the Bible and reduced it to an organized theological systems that caters to the inveterate system-building tendeny of the mind (a conceptual system - how they related to other).

Let the Word speaks and it is. God is marvelous in a way. In one portion of the Word, God unfolds one aspect of a certain truth; in another portion He unveils a different and perhaps seemingly contrary aspect. The "theologian" cannot tolerate such a thing - he wants a harmonious system.

There is a danger of ignoring the twofoldness of the divine truth.

So, when I say I am no Calvinist. Some will say I am of Arminianism. I will say I am not either. My point is, there is a tendency of even believers to "encamp" people into different positions. It is a frustration.

All I am saying, both sides captures a bit of both ends of the twofoldness of the truth, but forcing it to a system has brought in unhealthy things on both sides because every systems must include and exclude certain things.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by pehkay: Sep 13 2020, 12:48 PM

Another new user ?

I will respond in this way:

You have experienced regeneration and there is a sense of life and the law of life, the law of the Spirit of life within you. This law is a living law, and it is God Himself in Christ as the Spirit—the Triune God. The Triune God within us as the living law regulregulates us from within every moment.
Within us there is a continual inner regulating. The more we love Him, the more He will have the chance to operate within us and regulate us inwardly. The more we contact Him, the more the regulating will be active, positive, forceful, joyful within.

So, we should not understand "good work" according to the natural concept. It refers to living Christ, growing Christ, expressing Christ, and producing Christ in every respect. This is the good work Paul has in mind. It is the outflow of the divine life wrought into our human life.

We also need to realize that we can be a good person doing good things yet be void of Christ.

Suppose you are still joyful from the disbelief or ridicule, it is merely human performance and doesn't lasts. Rather one should gain Christ in such a situation. Otherwise, it is no different from a unbelieving person.

Or suppose, I tried to be humble, knowing that by being humble, I would receive praise from others. The result of such an attempt at humility, when it was successful, was that I became proud of my humility. In other words, I became proudly humble. After I was saved, when I tried to be proudly humble, I sensed something regulating me within. This inner regulation told me to try neither to be humble nor to be proud but just to be normal. This was the law of life, which is God Himself, regulating me from within.

Hope that helps ....

This post has been edited by pehkay: Sep 15 2020, 10:00 PM

It is a prophecy of encouragement concerning Israel's household salvation.

In the great tribulation at the consummation of the present age, in all the land of Israel two-thirds of the people will be cut off, slaughtered, by Antichrist in his persecution of the Jews (Zech. 13:8a; Rev. 11:2; 13:7).

One-third of the remnant will be left in the land and will be brought through fire and refined like silver and tried like gold by the persecution of Antichrist (vv. 8-9a). These will be those who are written in the book as the secret record (Dan. 12:1b).

They will call on the Lord’s name, and the Lord will answer them. The Lord will say that they are His people, and they will say that the Lord is their God (Zech 13:9b). They will be saved into the enjoyment of the riches of the Triune God, first in the millennium to be the priests to teach the nations (Zech. 8:20-23; Isa. 2:3) and then in the New Jerusalem to participate in all the blessings God has ordained in eternity.

This is the household salvation to Israel (Rom. 11:26-27).