Read all of James 2:14 to 26

Our faith is made complete by our deeds

What deeds?

I refer back to the two Galatians chapters which this discussion has led me to review

Galatians 5 13
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

Galatians 5 14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Galatians 6 1
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

Galatians 6 2
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Galatians 6 8
Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Galatians 6 9
Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Galatians 6 10
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Is the world around us free from toils and pains? Are all our neighbours happy, especially fellow Christians but not excluding unbelievers?

But coming before that - because the churches love to focus on missions and adding to the membership rolls - what about ourselves? Are we entirely Christlike, or even a little like David who was "a man after God's heart"? after all, how can we help others if we cannot help ourselves?

so then how do we help ourselves?

I believe Jesus is a very practical person. He understands the basic needs for food, shelter, clothing, survival, security. He's a carpenter and fisherman and farmer, accountant and builder. So in the first place we must ensure everyone has these basic needs. Is everyone safe? Is everyone healthy? Secure from harm?

Then there is the spiritual needs, starting with ourselves and with other fellow Christians. Is everyone well-versed with the teachings of the Bible? Is there anyone fallen, gone astray, backslided? Only once we have secured ourselves, then we can move on to growing the church externally, otherwise it is like building a house on sand! This is something I feel most churches have forgotten!

After looking after ourselves and the fellow Christians, only then look around you in the practical world. Is there little to be done?

I'm sorry that this post is somewhat out of order, but the process of defining it goes in that order. So I summarise by giving the order of priority as I see it. The deeds we need to do, after Salvation, are:

1) secure ourselves in practical matters in this world, ie food, shelter, security

2) change ourselves to be more as Jesus wanted us to be, to avoid stagnating and backsliding

3) help the Christians around us to accomplish 1 and 2

4) reach out to the unbelievers

In my opinion, the churches have gone completely backward and focused on 4-3-2-1. Because growing membership rolls KPI and "missions" are more impressive and visible than growing the existing church members.

It is because you over focus on step one, Salvation

Most of us are beyond step one, and looking elsewhere already

In fact the Church as a whole should by rights be way past the issue of Salvation vs Works - it has been argued to death for 2 millennia. What comes next is now the question.

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Sep 25 2020, 04:39 PM

I do not like to use the word "earn"

It is not about earning. It is about continuing our journey as Christians. After all what does it mean to "BE CHRISTIAN"? Simply that you have a ticket to heaven, badabing badaboom that's it?

To me it means that you strive to be more and more Christlike in our actions and thoughts. Doesn't matter that we will never be there - the point is to always try. In the process we will grow, become better, and benefit the world.

At the end of the day, a religion is mostly a moral code. A system of values. A culture. To declare yourself a follower of this moral code, means you declare that you agree with the code and wish of your own accord to practice the code.

Hence do not see it as "earning" salvation, but as continuing to live as best as possible according to the moral code of Christ, which we take as our own moral code. The right way to do things.

Now moving on to justice and fairness.

Does God need us to "uphold" justice and fairness like a superhero flying off to battle the world? Most of the time, no. The 0.1% of the time he wants us to, he will give us a definite calling. 99.9% of the time it is us who try to intervene when there is no need.

Rather we should seek to be just and fair in the things we do. The everyday things we do is just as important, maybe far more important, than trying to be a Christian Captain America and fighting for Justice and Fairness in the big battle but ignoring the "small thing" that happens at home... IMHO that is the number one problem with the Church and why the devil always trips up the big shots by making trouble at home.

BTW if you want a decent grounding in what it means to be Christian, I can't recommend a better basic than Alpha course. The course materials are very well written, and you will probably get good stuff from the facilitators and participants as well.

Personally I also like reading commentaries. There are 2 millennia of Christian scholars who have gone through the Bible with a fine toothed comb, doctrinally speaking they've said, I think, all there is to say. The only thing left is to apply all this to our current practical situations.

P.s. I can't remember much of the minor prophets. My bad, sorry Habakkuk. This is all in general and nothing particularly taken from the minors.

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Sep 25 2020, 08:58 PM

I don't think I raised the subject of justice and fairness, you did....?

What is good? I would say, Love your neighbour as yourself, that is the whole of the Law.

Add the fruits of the Spirit, Galatians 5

Add Philippians 4:8

And my favourite chapter of the Bible. 1 Corinthians 13.

What is bad? There's a list of sins. Seven deadly ones and a whole pile of others. Galatians 5 also lists, just before the Fruits of the Spirit, the Sins of the Flesh... something we tend not to dwell on.

You are not alone.

I too have seen depression, and I can assure you that I have "earned" it. I have long-term physical health issues that forced a change in career. Before that I was a real go-getter and the world was my oyster. Then I "won" the Russian Roulette, and so here I am.

During my time, I was angry with God. (Maybe I still am, actually.) But my version of being "angry with God" doesn't mean I rejected him or lost faith or even ceased to believe. I was merely being emotional. I only asked God "why me". Why was I given the harder road to walk, when I could have had it easier?

But I never lost faith in him, because I know he is real. I've seen his power at work. I believe in him like I believe the sky is blue and the grass is green and the sun is hot and the sea is cold. And I know that ultimately whatever happens on Earth, he will be with me to the end. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

So, I don't question the existence of God. He is.

Meanwhile, I too looked for reasons "why", and maybe I'm still looking. I believe I have found some answers, but I am still looking for more.

Misfortune, calamities, disease and death on this earth come from the devil, not from God. It is because this world has been made corrupt, and our bodies become perishable. From God comes healing and relief and salvation.

After a while, I looked around me and realised that for all my suffering, God provided a safety net. Alright, so my health is shit. But I do have food, shelter, security, sanity, healthcare, work, entertainment, family, friends. It could be a whole lot worse. I could be a homeless cripple in Iraq... yeah guess how long my life expectancy would be.

And that's not saying "it could always be worse". I hate that phrase. What this is, is being optimistic, and thanking God for giving me a fighting chance. The devil could have done worse... would have loved to do worse, to me. But God shielded me from the worst.

So, I don't ask where God is. He is helping, I know he is, and I thank him for it.

Sometimes I do ask myself "why me". A lot of reasons come up, some a little too personal to share. But one good reason is this: it could have happened to anyone. It could have happened to my sister, my brother, my father, my mother, my friends, any one. It had to happen; destruction, disease and death in this world is unavoidable. Somebody has to be the target. But it happened to me. And yknow what? I take it gladly. Because I rather it happened to me than to any one I love. It's a bullet that I willingly throw myself in front of. After all, my Lord Jesus did the same for me.

So, if that's one reason "why me", well, I'm happy with it.

You say you used to be a believer. I think you still are. You've just gotten a little tired, a little sad, a little fed up, that's all. And that's okay. Just come back. Try and find good spiritual counselors and friends of the faith to share your troubles with. That is what The Church is for... not the organisation, but the network, the relationships. We need each other, to encourage each other, and to renew our faith.

So, please feel free to PM me any time if you wish to chitchat further

Note that he said civil unions, while within the Catholic Church it is still a sin

That is perfectly proper and as it should be since the Church has no power over civil affairs

Most Protestant Churches have utterly failed in this regard

I don't know.... the Pope saying that it is a civil matter is different from "supporting" it, regardless of what the title writer is trying to imply...

The danger of China

https://www.ucanews.com/news/chinese-cathol...ed-sinner/89619

When the crowd disappeared, Jesus stoned the sinner to death saying, "I too am a sinner. But if the law could only be executed by men without blemish, the law would be dead," the textbook said.

Some other followers of other gods may think that God is blind and cannot see into their heart, so they believe they must do these things to show their "determination and willingness to change"

The Christian God is more powerful than those gods, as he can see inside and see whether you really are changing or not. He can see past "chanting 100x asking for forgiveness" or "wake up at 4am to worship" which can be easily performed without sincerely changing one's habits

After all, as we can see for ourselves every day, some people will do all the prayers all day, fast, refrain from eating forbidden food, etc but still happily pump money from the Govt's coffers and live hedonistically luxurious lives with their ill-gotten gains

What is the use of the very public prayers that these people do? To fool their god? Or to fool men?

Simple logic.