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 REIT, real estate investment...

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Jordy
post Jul 25 2009, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(ante5k @ Jul 24 2009, 11:06 PM)
i've been around, just didnt touch reit for a while.  smile.gif
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Sold all your ATRIUM so soon? smile.gif

QUOTE(Muliku @ Jul 24 2009, 11:34 PM)
Sorry Jordy,
Unfortunately can't join you tomorrow.
I don't go back that often. Maybe once a month.
G'luck with the survey. Cheers mate
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Ah, it's alright mate. I will go there myself then smile.gif

QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 24 2009, 11:37 PM)
Different, even there is pandemic, it doesn't affect how well Alaqar will be doing, it may drive more business to hospital but for reit holder, you are renting the properties to hospital only, you don't participate in hospital's business.
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You're stating a right point, we are only renting the property to tenants. But I would like to think of it this way.

If the tenant makes money, the tenant has the capacity to pay higher rental (in this case, KPJ itself). So my view is that if the private healthcare sector is not growing, there will be stagnant rental or even worse, decreased rental.

It's like what my formula says. Less patients = less income (in this case to KPJ) = less rental reversions (to ALAQAR).
Jordy
post Jul 25 2009, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 25 2009, 12:20 AM)
Ok, fair enough, just to clear the air so that people won't be mis-understanding.  smile.gif

Cheers.
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It's alright, we all live to share. I agree that my previous statement was quite vague too, so it's good if I make it clear as well smile.gif

Currently we have 2 REITs working this way, but BSDREIT's model is a little different. Their land rentals fluctuate based on the performance of oil palm. That is why I do not like to touch that counter tongue.gif
Jordy
post Jul 25 2009, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Jul 25 2009, 12:17 PM)
OT a bit.

I understand some time back you expressed your interest  to invest in CHHB oil palm related investments.

Aren"t CHHB have  some similarity with Boustead one ?

Mind to share more.
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Yup, I did buy into CHHB last time, but pulled out within the cooling-off period. I don't really like the feeling of my money being tied down.

The major difference in CHHB and BSDREIT is the way they distribute dividends. CHHB is more towards you owning that plot of land, and whatever yield they are getting, you get a piece of that. They calculate the returns to you in a few ranges (i.e. between RM1,800/MT to RM2,000/MT xx%, between RM2,001/MT to RM2,200/MT xx% and so on).

BSDREIT however is more of you owning the company which has plots of land to rent. Whenever you rent that land out, your tenant (the planters) will pay you rental based on the performance of palm oil price.

While typing, I have this crazy idea that BSDREIT might be "invested" into CHHB tongue.gif Logically if as what georgechang79 says, yield of above RM1,950/MT will return 11%. So now BSDREIT is receiving 11% annually as "rental" and then distribute 9% out to its shareholders. Earning 2% with no money down tongue.gif

QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 25 2009, 01:50 PM)
It is one of the major advantage compared owning properties directly.

Beh syiok, then tomorrow can sell, and out and cash will be received after 3 days.
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cherroy,

Not forgetting that we can keep averaging down when market's bad and earn higher yield when market's good.

For me right now, I could even increase my net yield by almost 2% with REITs biggrin.gif
Jordy
post Jul 26 2009, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(constant @ Jul 26 2009, 05:57 PM)
Is there something wrong with ARREIT. Its price stays so low even when all the REITS have gone up so much? Maybe investors are not confident with the either the quality of the management or the properties they are holding. Anyone has any idea?


Added on July 26, 2009, 6:13 pm

Actually, the gearing of our local REITS are not that low either. That is why I have also considered investing in SREITs because for the same amount of risk, the returns are about 50% better for some of the Sreits. Cherroy mention the quality of the earnings (not depreciation) but I do not know what he means. Some of their reits are trading at much lower than NAV price. So, instead of being satisfied with the 10% yield in local reits, why not invest in sreits and get 13%-15% returns.
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"Is there something wrong with ARREIT"

I have commented on ARREIT's holdings when panasonic88 brought up this counter. Basically, they are holding on to aged buildings which they do not care to refurbish I think. Location wise, they're mostly unstrategic. I only like one of their holdings (out of a possible 14), which is SEGi Kota Damansara.

"So, instead of being satisfied with the 10% yield in local reits, why not invest in sreits and get 13%-15% returns"

Compare their previous years of returns with the current ones. The yield which you are looking at is backwards yield. Property prices in Singapore has fallen very badly (in the region of 30% - 60%) because they have created a mini property bubble there. So as valuations fall, their stock prices will definitely fall. That is why you see their yields are higher.

We want consistent returns of 10%, not a one-time return of 13%.
Jordy
post Jul 26 2009, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(georgechang79 @ Jul 26 2009, 09:40 PM)
Yes, i agree about the liquidity part of REIT which is why i dump 2/3 of my portfolio into it. However sometimes it pays to diversify and try out new stuff which leads to CHGS. My reasons are

Advantages
1) Land price appreciation when it turns from forest land into palm oil plantation in Gua Musang.
2) First 3 years it takes for palm oil to mature, am getting 8% interest from CIMB
3) Yearly dividend at April depending on the palm oil price and land output.
4) Valid for 23 years. After that the tree is old and need to replant anyway... no juice liao
5) Seasoned management team

Disadvantage
1) Management fees (0.1%) + transfer fees.
2) Takes 3-4 months to sells land plots due to demand and may need to sell below market price.
(based on my colleague info who sold her land last month)
3) Minimum plot is 1/4 of acre
4) Fluctuating commodities prices can be a problem especially if there is a overproduction of palm oil.

Status
Now i get yearly 8% + land appreciation of 45% ( Bought at 5500, now valued at 8000) so it is a pretty good deal for me.
I am not promoting CHGS, do your own investment studies first. More info can be found here http://www.chgs.com.my/
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I wouldn't deny the land appreciation part (mainly due to the promoter increasing the price). The problem you would find here is when you want to liquidate your holdings because they have no buyback policy.
Jordy
post Jul 27 2009, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(constant @ Jul 26 2009, 11:51 PM)
Sorry, I am not clear on what you say. Are you saying the DPU is "artificially high" for the SREits because there was a bubble before collapse? So, you think the DPU for these Reits will come down and make yields lower?
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I believe the crisis has hit Singapore hard (as seen in their plunging property prices). And not forgetting they were among the first in the region to report fall in GDP (as high as -8% if I am not mistaken). So, businesses there have suffered, do you think they would continue paying the same rental?
Jordy
post Jul 30 2009, 06:36 PM

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Wow, I overslept and didn't notice AXREIT shot all the way to 1.84 rclxub.gif
Jordy
post Jul 30 2009, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(ante5k @ Jul 30 2009, 06:48 PM)
i just got back to office to see also, see the volume..
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Must be Stephen throwing his units again. He's been doing this the previous 2 days.
Jordy
post Jul 30 2009, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(vergil90 @ Jul 30 2009, 08:41 PM)
throwing? Seems like somebody want to push up the price, one go sapu all unit from 1.80 to 1.84, amazing!
Hopefully after dividend distribution stay above RM 1.70 then private placement will be at good price  thumbup.gif
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It all depends. The placement is only slated for Q4, still another quarter to go, so we have lots of time smile.gif I am preparing to sell for the big price dilution. Don't want to lose my 40% capital appreciation momentum now biggrin.gif
Jordy
post Aug 3 2009, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Aug 3 2009, 10:43 AM)
Well, it's after dividend ex-date now right? Prices still aren't coming down. Darn.
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What's the rush? The price should stay afloat prior to the placement in Q4 smile.gif That is the time to start accumulating again.
Jordy
post Aug 3 2009, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(espree @ Aug 3 2009, 07:58 PM)
does anyone here know when is the ex-date for hektar reits? thank you in advance.
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HEKTAR did not announce dividend payout (if I am not mistaken, they pay dividends semi-annually). Where did you hear that from?

This post has been edited by Jordy: Aug 3 2009, 08:09 PM
Jordy
post Aug 5 2009, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Aug 5 2009, 04:25 PM)
Some REIT prices dropping a bit today. Will it continue dropping do you think?
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Fuyoh, didn't look after my rice bowl. Dropped 0.06 today tongue.gif

I do not reckon these REITs counters to drop that much. They will definitely fall, but will go back up (depends on AXREIT's coming meeting).

Here I have attached a notice of the meeting which I would be attending for AXREIT. Anybody else interest can just tag along.




Attached File(s)
Attached File  Axis_Notice_of_Meeting.pdf ( 224.36k ) Number of downloads: 20
Jordy
post Aug 5 2009, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Aug 5 2009, 06:10 PM)
How would you prove that you're a unitholder and how many units you hold if you just show up?
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They have the register basically. Once you buy shares, your details are posted to the registrar for booking.
Jordy
post Aug 5 2009, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Aug 5 2009, 08:37 PM)
Any door gifts for attending?
*
This is not AGM, so I am not so sure hmm.gif
Jordy
post Aug 6 2009, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(cantdecide @ Aug 6 2009, 10:52 AM)
What placement is that?  Sorry for the silly question as I have not been able to find time to follow in the last 1 year.    sweat.gif  sweat.gif  sweat.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif    Any report on the placement and what is the speculation on the price before and after?  AXREIT has always been my favourite but just can't find the right price to go in.  Sigh.
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Private placement of up to 51 million new shares. Price will definitely be diluted after the placement due to increased fund size.
Jordy
post Aug 6 2009, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 6 2009, 11:42 AM)
To be exact, private placement will dilute the EPS and potential DPU.

Share price won't be adjusted due to private placement just like what on right issue.

But whether the private placement will make the share price goes down in the market due to demand and supply issue, different story.

But one thing from private placement compared to right issue, existing shareholders don't need to fork out extra money and generally those receiving end or subscribe the private placement one is not intend to trade in market one.
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cherroy,

Doesn't the private placement increases the fund size (as in increase the units in circulation)? If that's the case, the price should be diluted.

Need further clarification smile.gif

This post has been edited by Jordy: Aug 6 2009, 02:21 PM
Jordy
post Aug 6 2009, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 6 2009, 03:45 PM)
Yes, number of share is increased, but KLSE won't be adjusting the share price or closing/opening price accordingly just like what right issue or ex-div does.

There is no price "diluted', but it will dilute the EPS as well as potential seller in the market (which private placement generally doesn't as explained earlier).
*
cherroy,

Thank you for the clarification smile.gif
Jordy
post Aug 6 2009, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(espree @ Aug 6 2009, 06:12 PM)
Company Name :ATRIUM REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT TRUST 
Stock Name :ATRIUM 
Date Announced :06/08/2009 
EX-date :21/08/2009
Entitlement date :25/08/2009
Entitlement time :05:00:00 PM
Entitlement subject :Income Distribution
Entitlement description :Second interim income distribution of 0.80 sen per unit in respect of the three month period from 1 April 2009 to 30 June 2009.
Period of interest payment :to
Financial Year End :31/12/2009
Share transfer book & register of members will be :
to closed from (both dates inclusive) for the purpose of determining the entitlements

Registrar's name ,address, telephone no :
PFA Registration Services Sdn Bhd (19234-W)
Level 17, The Gardens North Tower
Mid Valley City, Lingkaran Syed Putra
59200 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
Tel:+6(03) 2264 3883
Payment date :11/09/2009
a.Securities transferred into the Depositor's Securities Account before 4:00 pm in respect of transfers:25/08/2009
b.Securities deposited into the Depositor's Securities Account before 12:30 pm in respect of securities exempted from mandatory deposit:
c.Securities bought on the Exchange on a cum entitlement basis according to the Rules of the Exchange.:

Number of new shares/securities issued (units) (If applicable):
Entitlement indicator :Currency
Currency :Malaysian Ringgit (MYR)
Entitlement in Currency :0.008
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What? They took so long to announce a 0.80 sen dividend? That is a shocker, tomorrow sure drop like nobody's business. Haha.
Jordy
post Aug 6 2009, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(protonw @ Aug 6 2009, 09:55 PM)
Aiyo, whats wrong with this dividend, 8 cents only, half of 1st interim .  sweat.gif

Tomorrow can throw  ald.  mad.gif
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It is not 8 cents. If it was, then you'll see the price doubling tongue.gif
It's 0.80 cents, which is very disappointing quarter.

QUOTE(nujikabane @ Aug 6 2009, 11:06 PM)
That could be the reason the price drops.
Pity those who have been anticipating a good result, based on the profits projection.

Hm but share prices tend to rise when there is news of dividend payout, no ?
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The price actually rose from 0.70 to the 0.79-ish level now in anticipation of the dividend announcement, but with such a dismay result, we should see the price to drop big time tomorrow.
Jordy
post Aug 7 2009, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Aug 7 2009, 09:21 AM)
Just sold my Atrium shares. I thought I might as well realize my gains of 15.5% rather than wait for the measly dividend or for it to drop further. My original buying price was 0.65. If it drops back to that level, I might buy it again.
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QUOTE(yeeeeko @ Aug 7 2009, 09:25 AM)
same here. my buying price was 0.61. might as well lock in profit first and buy back later at lower price. i sold also just now.
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You guys were really panicking. The prices you bought at were so good that you sold them? You will not get it at that price anymore doh.gif

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