https://themalaysianreserve.com/2018/12/06/...lower-earnings/




Those who already bought sime darby property are going to get a big slap from the developer soon when they reduces the property price?

Don't know which sime darby project will kena first though but according to edge property the Lot 15 seems to be doing very well so I think they might not touch that property. Cantara, Elmina buyers might feel it though



https://www.edgeprop.my/content/1452230/sub...ation-education


and those are big players, if they are considering such drastic measures those smaller players like Loh & Loh (millenium creation sdn bhd), Mediaraya Sdn Bhd, paramount properties etc. might even abandon the project if they can't sell.

This post has been edited by holypredator: Dec 8 2018, 10:33 PM

DAP kena order cannot accept any project
and yes, now no more direct award project liao, those buy project memang screwed kao kao

If don't have new project, isn't it a good news for existing projects? Since consumers got no new choices, the existing projects would sell like hot cakes

Those like to say "who doesn't know mother is a woman" will remind; developers are in business to make profits from buyers and don't guarantee profits for buyers/investors.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 8 2018, 11:13 PM

It's not really about profits for the buyers, it's about pretty much screwing over your early bird buyers. Imagine yourself buying few months earlier and then out of the blue knowing that the developer lowered its price just shortly after. It's kinda different from buying the average consumer goods where there is a product life cycle. Your property is 3 years away from completion and you've already made a loss when your developer decides to give more discounts to clear their inventory.

It felt kinda like being cheated in a way knowing that you've overpaid for something that you've not gotten yet. For those who got extra discount from special privilege discount or referral discount, it basically just disappear the moment the developer shoot the price down with more discounts.

If the developer wants to clear their inventories, why not just throw in more freebies like furnishing etc. instead of pressing the property price down? They can easily give it to the existing buyers as well since the property hasn't even been completed yet and everybody would be happy. Otherwise, I think in future the momentum for high rise project would start off extremely bad since there is no point in buying early anymore since price will not go up but it will definitely go down during sales for new projects anyway.

I understand if small developers play such trick because they don't have any reputation to keep but I don't expect the big players to do that cause their reputation is at stake for future projects.

This post has been edited by holypredator: Dec 8 2018, 11:55 PM

everything want open tender now and also now they SESB(tnb) is checking the equipment before you can tender the project
this to prevent of those maincon get the project and sub to other contractor, this quiet good also la

1. Willing seller, willing buyer.
2. Sime Darby not the first one doing that. Mah Sing, SCP doing the same quietly but didnt announce in the news to the world.
3. LGE reminds all developer to reduce house price by 10% due to SST exemption for construction.

Willing seller willing buyer should applies for smaller developers only not bigger developers, they have their reputation at stake. Imagine people knowing that they can't trust their investment on those big names, who would still want to go for their future projects? Might as well wait it off..

Well, developers can throw in freebies to compensate their existing buyers?

As said earlier, this is not something that has product life cycle. You don't enjoy being an early adopter since you don't get to touch the product when you pay for it and you are basically enjoying your product the same time as any other buyers at any given time.

This post has been edited by holypredator: Dec 9 2018, 12:08 AM

Anyway if that is how the market works, I suggest everyone to just hold off from buying property until they've peak promotion like how you buy clothes from the store.

those earlier buyers should united to sue that developer if no fair compensation given.

This post has been edited by nbi: Dec 9 2018, 12:46 AM

Developers traditionally offer early birds discount or increase price on subsequent phase is to play on fear of missing out/boat psychology.

demand is largely dictated by price. when price is too high, demand will be poor. company management responsibility is to shareholders not buyers. if management couldn't meet kpi e.g sales, management's head could roll. it is management responsibility to bring in sales e.g marketing, promotion, discount and lowering price.

whether this strategy will hurt their future sales is remain to be seen because most consumers/buyers have short and preferable memory.

in free economy, price could goes up as well as down.


This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 9 2018, 01:24 AM

well, can't argue with that but still I believe many new project investors would feel short changed because of that not because they are losing out on profits (that is never the case to be consider with since it is a risk) but losing out just by default from the developer itself.

what I can conclude though is that if I want to buy a new project, I think it is best to wait it out especially if the market is not doing very good.

Some might argue "early birds get to pick units" but is it that important though? Even if you are eyeing on a particular section of the property or particular layout, chances are there would still be units left unless you specifically wants to buy a certain unit for whatever reason like you have to buy the unit at 18th floor or something.

This post has been edited by holypredator: Dec 9 2018, 01:36 AM

I give you one best example here: Razak City Residence, Sg Besi.
2 big booster gone, vanish within this year itself.
Before this they are already selling with added value of Bandar Malaysia and MRT2 station already factor into the pricing.

So how the developer gonna clear away their remaining stock?
By offering cheaper price of course.
Or to not look so obvious, they can package it differently. But at the end of the day, will be more worth it to get it now compare to those early bird buyer.

Real case study:

D'Sara Sentral by Mah Sing. Late buyer got throw in 25% rebate while early bird only got 9% rebate.
You can read it yourself here: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=86920761
Continuation part 2 (with typical alasan): https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=86969476
Paper loss 100k stated by 1 of the buyer himself: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=86978041
and can read from that post onwards......


Real case study #2:

No need to guess is from the same developer again!!!
M City, Jalan Ampang.
Project completed 2 years ago. But developer units still fail to sell out. (How to sell when got so many units end up cheaper price in auction?)
So what to do? Throw in big rebate to sell.
Unit dispose same like 7 years ago early bird pricing. If count progressive interest, and 7 years of lost opportunity. Late buyer actually got big advantage.
Read: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=89879928

This post has been edited by AskarPerang: Dec 9 2018, 01:39 AM

That is really good explanation.

Makes me wonder if the only way to properly invest in a new project is to eye a few units you like then monitor it as often as possible. No point jumping in to buy early cause there is a very high chance to lose compared to you buying it later.

For every case of MahSing, there are maybe other 10 developer launches that will never reduce it initial price.

Again.. It is market supply and demand.

YTL Fennel also having "special promotion" for unsold units.

Herd mentality.. when ppl are scared. No one will be buying. Especially if u r seeing ppl losing money and price going down. Buckle your seat belts for wild rides. Those who can't hold will be in deep teouble when they find out that rental market is weak as well. With all the affordable housing, rents will be further under pressure. Congrats to earlier owners of making 300% or more. The party is over now..

Those who think this way would be better off by just staying away from any investment with risk. Just park money in FD lol.

If you buy stocks at IPO, and then the stock price decreases, should all the early stockholders unite and sue the company ? 😂😂😂

And consider the opposite scenario - early bird buyers go into the project early then 3 years down the road the property price goes up. Should the later buyers unite and sue the developer ? 😂😂😂

The things you've mentioned does not exactly correlates to one another.

Property investment involve risk but it doesn't make much sense when the risk occurs during the purchasing process. You can't compare stock price with purchasing new projects because stock price fluctuates but the SPA price doesn't just go up because there are higher demands. At purchasing stage, you are just a consumer buying a product NOT investing. You are owning the stock on paper once you've purchased it and it is within your disposal to do whatever you want with it but buying new projects eventhough on paper you own it, it still belongs to the developer until it is completed and you have no control over it.

Bear in mind that selling under construction properties requires the developer's consent, you literally have no control over the property since it is not completed. The property still belongs to the developer in a way until it is completed and the keys are hand over and until you've fully paid up. (You only pay based on the percentage of the property is being completed i.e. when the foundation is done, you will pay your first payment then when the common area is done, you pay the next... so on and so forth)

3 years down the road, when the property is completed and the keys are handed over to the early bird buyers, they will be considered "owning" the property since it is then fully paid. If the market price goes up, the later buyers will buy it as sub-sale. When that time comes, it will only be considered "Investment" since the price will then move according to supply and demand but when the property is still under construction it is unfair that the price move based on weak demand but not strong demand.

You can't mix investment theory into buying a new project. It is not the same as buying a completed project.

This post has been edited by holypredator: Dec 9 2018, 11:25 AM

Your argument is it tally with the law ?!

The laws of the buying property under construction from developer lies in the S&P. And the S&P, if you read every sentence of it, did it say that prices cannot drop under construction ? Ok the residential S&P is considered a schedule of the housing act, does the housing act says price cannot drop ?

No developer guarantee price will only rise and not fall. A risk of buying off plan is developer could change design, plan, price (rise or drop), abandon project, etc which many didn't consider or ignored. Because of these risks, people who had experienced economic recession are willing to pay a premium for completed units. And novice took this risks premium as guaranteed profits.

During bullrun, BBB/uuu shouted they were rewarded for risks they took. Similarly, when the tide turned, some are found swim naked.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 9 2018, 11:56 AM

Not saying that it cannot happen just that from the consumer perspective it is definitely not a fair buy for them. What do you want the consumer to say after these things happen? "Oh yes, I'm happy that my property got devalued even before I got it"?

As mentioned, small developers I can understand because they do not have any reputation at stake. But for big players, they have tons of lands to be developed and more to come so I don't usually expect them to play this kind of game as it would hurt them long term. Many buys big brands because of the confidence they gave and I remember some dude in this forum even said that you are already paying a premium just by buying the company's name compared to others.

No one is happy if his investment is devalued. For own stay, drop in value is only on paper; as long as is not selling, it has no material impact.

If developer don't reduce price, don't sell sufficient to get enough cash flow to complete the project, the project risk abandoned. To buyers it is better for the project to be completed although at a lost than abandoned, a total lost.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 9 2018, 08:15 PM

Be careful. A lot scams are ongoing for new properties sale: i.e. Pakatan Harapan Fundmyhome, moreover properties being offered for purchase with just RM4000 downpayment(RM500k property inflated about 20-40% of market price with zero deposit) by major developers like MahSing.

When these properties enter secondary market: the price would plunge about 30% . Unfortunately: buyers need to bear the cost and developers will rejoice.

If you wish to be safe: buy secondary properties below market valuation at this point.

This post has been edited by powerlinkers: Dec 9 2018, 02:24 PM

For real home buyers (vs flippers) of FundMyHome, house plunged 30% is good. Because they will get to purchase the house at reduced price.

Poor thing...it's not fair ge la....but it's our reality.......in any investment....there is a risk...housing is same la....look at USA 2008....same same la

Big companies even worse......they can throw away the brands at the times like this...y? Because when times are good back ppl still will buy again. Nobody remembers what happened n will still buy from big brands..

It wasn't fair to me too when I can't buy the house I want at inflated price so I wait lor .......now finally it's my turn to buy...maybe...

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Dec 9 2018, 09:21 PM

I think stocks and properties are the same, in the sense that your investment has associated risk, and their prices are subjected to supply and demand.

Of course they differ in other aspects such as liquidity.

It’s fine if you choose to disagree on that point, but like I said that mentality isn’t suited to any investment with risk.

I believe generally Malaysians have a major misconception that property prices can only go upwards. This is unrealistic, naive and a recipe for major financial disaster.

9 years ago, I bought a Sime Darby house. That time also property crash. SD did not reduce price but they give early bird eg 10k, free MOT which is about RM30k, free legal fees for loans and S&P...Think that is better. I think SD has lots of properties in Nilai area which could not move. But for Klang valley ones, should be ok.

But given a choice now, I rather buy a unit in the secondary market even at inflated price as long as I see and like the unit rather than to buy off plan.

Surprised that people think that buying early phases is supposed to be a guarenteed win. Although Mahsings basically had a sales strategy to pull in people who had no ability to hold the property.

buyers should be smart and do due diligence and shouldn't hold a notion that developers will not reduce selling price. There are already many examples where developers already reduce price to clear stocks.

Primary market booming time is truly over furthermore there are alternative e.g. rumah Selangor, rumahwip, Pr1ma etc and buyers not necessarily buying from private developers.

This post has been edited by gks: Dec 10 2018, 07:32 PM

I don't anyone is hoping to win from buying a new project but of course no one would expect to lose right after you've signed the SAP.

Before dibs, buyer needs to pay loan interest during construction period. By the time, the property is vped, it's cost includes loan interest incurred. Hence price is naturally higher than launch price. However, uuu took this price rise as god given rights to buyer and ignore loan interest during construction is already included in the dibs launch price.

Before 2011, those couldn't fork out 20% down payment were considered sub prime by banks. Low entry cost is particularly aimed at these sub prime borrowers. Hence, property auction is recently on the rise.

Here another good example from a reputable developer, YTL: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92020627

The Fennel @ Sentul
After doing my own research on these two buildings (Fennel and Capers), investors better stay away from it.

It grabbed my attention when developers opened their own units for sale at BELOW LAUNCH PRICE......very fishy. Why would they even think of that, unless the know something? Either running out of money or knows the market value of this place cannot hold for long and I believe it's the latter. They got their money from the initial 70% sales, and dumping these last units for a price which is still a 'profit' when looking 5 years down the road.

Ridiculous price to buy now, rental is a joke. Mid end condos and poorly maintained buildings in Subang and PJ can command similar/higher rental.

However, if you bought for own stay and convenient to get to work, then it's not a bad buy. But for investment...no way.

The HOC program tax exempted only applied to new house but not subsale market a bit disappointed..first home buyer not limit to new house only, some prefer buy subsale

Another example here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4748514
Seems to be happening at every project in the market that cannot be sold.


I bought a property 2 years ago on a project by this developer.
Although the project is still in progress, the developer had yet to finish selling the units.

Recently, they are making a promotion for all left over unit.
The prices are getting 30% discount + rebate subject to some tnc.
(pm me for the details and project name)

Is that common trend now?
So, I had already loss money, quite upset here.
Is that fair enough for the early purchasers?

i have a feeling that those new property lay among the LRT/MRT line will suffer for rental war, auction and default risk after completion.

Example: Maluri Station->Kajang station, Jalan Ipoh->Cyberjaya Station.

the best move now is to continue survey, hunt for lelong or cheap subsales unit.

these days many developer even large reputable ones (don't wanna mention which ones) giving discount and vouchers and freebies left right center and they also DROP the price to clear stock.

so i agree with you .

buy off plan and early mover advantage only applies to a hot market.

in a sideways and tanking market, if one buys from those top 10 developer esp in new or ulu location but priced high due to so called "luxury" features... good chance of seeing one's "investment" shedding it's capital value . by the time the market starts to revive the "new" property has become a 10 year "old" property.


This post has been edited by corleone74: Mar 7 2019, 11:58 PM

Bro, any guideline or percentage of unsold developer unit (after VP) that based on your experience will trigger the alarming status of the project?
I think there will always be leftover developer unit nowadays. It's just that how many leftover is too much.. hmm

I've always said buying from developer is always a RIPOFF. Very hard to win, very easy to lose.

I only deal subsale units. All the BS promos like "free SPA, free this free that"....no thanks, all nicely priced into the property and risk transferred to the buyer - and all the suckers will buy.

Freshie here. Developer will sell higher price for sure. But isnt it subsales owner also are selling higher?
Or the one subsales unit you looking for are those desperate seller? Property owner mindset for sure wanna profit, somehow subsales for certain way are not cheap though.
Give some advise, thanks.

Here another example, from reputable developer YTL, also throwing the prices to clear the unsold unit: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92049465

Even PR1MA is doing the same thing by throwing in up to 30% discounts during the HOC period. Haha.
Go read the comment in those page. All early bird buyers rage now.

RECAP of all the risks of buyer that have to bear:-

a. After VP, Risk of subsale pricing undercut by developer
Even after VP, developer offer heavy rebate to abundant of unsold developer unit, indirectly killing off owner's subsale unit.
Example: Mah Sing with their Icon City M City etc

b. Before VP, Risk of getting prop sale price being undercut by developer
Too much unsold prop by developer resulting in heavy rebate to lure in new buyer, resulting in unfair condition where early buyer pay unrebate price & progressive interest.
Example: PRIMA 30% rebate at HOC

c. Risk of developer / SA overpromise or cut-cost on certain items
Promise this promise that (covered walkway, shuttle bus, parking layout changed to tandem etc), but since S&P is too standard and does not include such promise / brands of common appliance, developer always get away with it. But buyer has to live with it forever, until they sell it off at least.
Potential Solution:- Government should enforce strictler law on developer to prevent them from overpromising to the point of false advertising.

d. Late payment interest charged by developer to buyer
due to late loan disbursement by developer panel bank to developer (could be issue of their PANEL lawyer), in which the buyer has no control over the process, buyer has to bear the late payment interest.

Please continue to help me list out the potential unfair risks that we not supposed to bear.

This post has been edited by sonnytan09: Mar 10 2019, 01:56 PM

In light of what happened with PR1MA, where the developer gave 30% blanket discount for new buyers, is this even legal?

I can understand if owner want to sell the unit cheaply, or if developer does it behind the scenes (because you need to let the free market do its thing), but PR1MA did this in such an open manner that it undercut earlier buyers? This cannot be legal, especially done by a government company.

Also there is no history of "transacted" prices for these area, who is PR1MA to suddenly decide that the houses are now worth 30% cheaper? I do think the earlier buyers here were cheated.

This post has been edited by kuci_mayong: Apr 13 2019, 10:25 PM

lol, tell that to apple, bmw, rolex.

There are different market segment e.g Bugatti, Richard mille, etc, and these buyers are only interested in selected properties. The rest i.e majority need to be realistic and affordable.

Try to sell bmw to one could only afford Toyota, Rolex to citizen.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Apr 13 2019, 11:45 PM

these are just psychological prices. if developer lowers their price, buyers will lower their reference price and now say "oh this property tak laku, can get it cheaper."

don't get me wrong, its different if it happened in sub-sale market or behind the scenes that most people don't know about it. but when developer does it openly, you fucked your early buyers badly.

case in point, you never see apple discount their products on their official page, but if you were to go SenQ or Harvey Norman, maybe you can get a better deal. the point is you have an "original" reference point to reference your pricing from.

It is not unknown for cash bulk buyers to get 20% to 30% cheaper price from developer.

Here is the official explanation by PR1MA:



This post has been edited by AskarPerang: Apr 14 2019, 12:48 AM

Boss what projek is dis, mind share share

Timing matter..