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 Buying new project now = getting screwed?

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puchongite
post Dec 9 2018, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(holypredator @ Dec 9 2018, 11:21 AM)
The things you've mentioned does not exactly correlates to one another.

Property investment involve risk but it doesn't make much sense when the risk occurs during the purchasing process. You can't compare stock price with purchasing new projects because stock price fluctuates but the SPA price doesn't just go up because there are higher demands. At purchasing stage, you are just a consumer buying a product NOT investing. You are owning the stock on paper once you've purchased it and it is within your disposal to do whatever you want with it but buying new projects eventhough on paper you own it, it still belongs to the developer until it is completed and you have no control over it.

Bear in mind that selling under construction properties requires the developer's consent, you literally have no control over the property since it is not completed. The property still belongs to the developer in a way until it is completed and the keys are hand over and until you've fully paid up. (You only pay based on the percentage of the property is being completed i.e. when the foundation is done, you will pay your first payment then when the common area is done, you pay the next... so on and so forth)

3 years down the road, when the property is completed and the keys are handed over to the early bird buyers, they will be considered "owning" the property since it is then fully paid. If the market price goes up, the later buyers will buy it as sub-sale. When that time comes, it will only be considered "Investment" since the price will then move according to supply and demand but when the property is still under construction it is unfair that the price move based on weak demand but not strong demand.

You can't mix investment theory into buying a new project. It is not the same as buying a completed project.
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Your argument is it tally with the law ?!

The laws of the buying property under construction from developer lies in the S&P. And the S&P, if you read every sentence of it, did it say that prices cannot drop under construction ? Ok the residential S&P is considered a schedule of the housing act, does the housing act says price cannot drop ?


icemanfx
post Dec 9 2018, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(holypredator @ Dec 9 2018, 11:21 AM)
The things you've mentioned does not exactly correlates to one another.

Property investment involve risk but it doesn't make much sense when the risk occurs during the purchasing process. You can't compare stock price with purchasing new projects because stock price fluctuates but the SPA price doesn't just go up because there are higher demands. At purchasing stage, you are just a consumer buying a product NOT investing. You are owning the stock on paper once you've purchased it and it is within your disposal to do whatever you want with it but buying new projects eventhough on paper you own it, it still belongs to the developer until it is completed and you have no control over it.

Bear in mind that selling under construction properties requires the developer's consent, you literally have no control over the property since it is not completed. The property still belongs to the developer in a way until it is completed and the keys are hand over and until you've fully paid up. (You only pay based on the percentage of the property is being completed i.e. when the foundation is done, you will pay your first payment then when the common area is done, you pay the next... so on and so forth)

3 years down the road, when the property is completed and the keys are handed over to the early bird buyers, they will be considered "owning" the property since it is then fully paid. If the market price goes up, the later buyers will buy it as sub-sale. When that time comes, it will only be considered "Investment" since the price will then move according to supply and demand but when the property is still under construction it is unfair that the price move based on weak demand but not strong demand.

You can't mix investment theory into buying a new project. It is not the same as buying a completed project.
*
No developer guarantee price will only rise and not fall. A risk of buying off plan is developer could change design, plan, price (rise or drop), abandon project, etc which many didn't consider or ignored. Because of these risks, people who had experienced economic recession are willing to pay a premium for completed units. And novice took this risks premium as guaranteed profits.

During bullrun, BBB/uuu shouted they were rewarded for risks they took. Similarly, when the tide turned, some are found swim naked.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 9 2018, 11:56 AM
TSholypredator
post Dec 9 2018, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Dec 9 2018, 11:51 AM)
No developer guarantee price will only rise and not fall. A risk of buying off plan is developer could change design, plan, price (rise or drop), abandon project, etc which many didn't consider or ignored. Because of these risks, people who had experienced economic recession are willing to pay a premium for completed units. And novice took this risks premium as guaranteed profits.

During bullrun, BBB/uuu shouted they were rewarded for risks they took. Similarly, when the tide turned, some are found swim naked.
*
Not saying that it cannot happen just that from the consumer perspective it is definitely not a fair buy for them. What do you want the consumer to say after these things happen? "Oh yes, I'm happy that my property got devalued even before I got it"?

As mentioned, small developers I can understand because they do not have any reputation at stake. But for big players, they have tons of lands to be developed and more to come so I don't usually expect them to play this kind of game as it would hurt them long term. Many buys big brands because of the confidence they gave and I remember some dude in this forum even said that you are already paying a premium just by buying the company's name compared to others.
icemanfx
post Dec 9 2018, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(holypredator @ Dec 9 2018, 01:04 PM)
Not saying that it cannot happen just that from the consumer perspective it is definitely not a fair buy for them. What do you want the consumer to say after these things happen? "Oh yes, I'm happy that my property got devalued even before I got it"?

As mentioned, small developers I can understand because they do not have any reputation at stake. But for big players, they have tons of lands to be developed and more to come so I don't usually expect them to play this kind of game as it would hurt them long term. Many buys big brands because of the confidence they gave and I remember some dude in this forum even said that you are already paying a premium just by buying the company's name compared to others.
*
No one is happy if his investment is devalued. For own stay, drop in value is only on paper; as long as is not selling, it has no material impact.

If developer don't reduce price, don't sell sufficient to get enough cash flow to complete the project, the project risk abandoned. To buyers it is better for the project to be completed although at a lost than abandoned, a total lost.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 9 2018, 08:15 PM
powerlinkers
post Dec 9 2018, 02:19 PM

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Be careful. A lot scams are ongoing for new properties sale: i.e. Pakatan Harapan Fundmyhome, moreover properties being offered for purchase with just RM4000 downpayment(RM500k property inflated about 20-40% of market price with zero deposit) by major developers like MahSing.

When these properties enter secondary market: the price would plunge about 30% . Unfortunately: buyers need to bear the cost and developers will rejoice.

If you wish to be safe: buy secondary properties below market valuation at this point.

This post has been edited by powerlinkers: Dec 9 2018, 02:24 PM
puchongite
post Dec 9 2018, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(powerlinkers @ Dec 9 2018, 02:19 PM)
Be careful. A lot scams are ongoing for new properties sale: i.e. Pakatan Harapan Fundmyhome, moreover properties being offered for purchase with just RM4000 downpayment(RM500k property inflated about 20-40% of market price with zero deposit) by major developers like MahSing.

When these properties enter secondary market: the price would plunge about 30% . Unfortunately: buyers need to bear the cost and developers will rejoice.

If you wish to be safe: buy secondary properties below market valuation at this point.
*
For real home buyers (vs flippers) of FundMyHome, house plunged 30% is good. Because they will get to purchase the house at reduced price. wink.gif
mIssfROGY
post Dec 9 2018, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(holypredator @ Dec 9 2018, 01:04 PM)
Not saying that it cannot happen just that from the consumer perspective it is definitely not a fair buy for them. What do you want the consumer to say after these things happen? "Oh yes, I'm happy that my property got devalued even before I got it"?

As mentioned, small developers I can understand because they do not have any reputation at stake. But for big players, they have tons of lands to be developed and more to come so I don't usually expect them to play this kind of game as it would hurt them long term. Many buys big brands because of the confidence they gave and I remember some dude in this forum even said that you are already paying a premium just by buying the company's name compared to others.
*
Poor thing...it's not fair ge la....but it's our reality.......in any investment....there is a risk...housing is same la....look at USA 2008....same same la

Big companies even worse......they can throw away the brands at the times like this...y? Because when times are good back ppl still will buy again. Nobody remembers what happened n will still buy from big brands..

It wasn't fair to me too when I can't buy the house I want at inflated price so I wait lor .......now finally it's my turn to buy...maybe...

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Dec 9 2018, 09:21 PM
langstrasse
post Dec 10 2018, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(holypredator @ Dec 9 2018, 11:21 AM)
The things you've mentioned does not exactly correlates to one another.

Property investment involve risk but it doesn't make much sense when the risk occurs during the purchasing process. You can't compare stock price with purchasing new projects because stock price fluctuates but the SPA price doesn't just go up because there are higher demands. At purchasing stage, you are just a consumer buying a product NOT investing. You are owning the stock on paper once you've purchased it and it is within your disposal to do whatever you want with it but buying new projects eventhough on paper you own it, it still belongs to the developer until it is completed and you have no control over it.

Bear in mind that selling under construction properties requires the developer's consent, you literally have no control over the property since it is not completed. The property still belongs to the developer in a way until it is completed and the keys are hand over and until you've fully paid up. (You only pay based on the percentage of the property is being completed i.e. when the foundation is done, you will pay your first payment then when the common area is done, you pay the next... so on and so forth)

3 years down the road, when the property is completed and the keys are handed over to the early bird buyers, they will be considered "owning" the property since it is then fully paid. If the market price goes up, the later buyers will buy it as sub-sale. When that time comes, it will only be considered "Investment" since the price will then move according to supply and demand but when the property is still under construction it is unfair that the price move based on weak demand but not strong demand.

You can't mix investment theory into buying a new project. It is not the same as buying a completed project.
*
I think stocks and properties are the same, in the sense that your investment has associated risk, and their prices are subjected to supply and demand.

Of course they differ in other aspects such as liquidity.

It’s fine if you choose to disagree on that point, but like I said that mentality isn’t suited to any investment with risk.

I believe generally Malaysians have a major misconception that property prices can only go upwards. This is unrealistic, naive and a recipe for major financial disaster.
funniman
post Dec 10 2018, 07:04 PM

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9 years ago, I bought a Sime Darby house. That time also property crash. SD did not reduce price but they give early bird eg 10k, free MOT which is about RM30k, free legal fees for loans and S&P...Think that is better. I think SD has lots of properties in Nilai area which could not move. But for Klang valley ones, should be ok.

But given a choice now, I rather buy a unit in the secondary market even at inflated price as long as I see and like the unit rather than to buy off plan.


flight
post Dec 10 2018, 07:21 PM

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Surprised that people think that buying early phases is supposed to be a guarenteed win. Although Mahsings basically had a sales strategy to pull in people who had no ability to hold the property.
gks
post Dec 10 2018, 07:30 PM

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buyers should be smart and do due diligence and shouldn't hold a notion that developers will not reduce selling price. There are already many examples where developers already reduce price to clear stocks.

Primary market booming time is truly over furthermore there are alternative e.g. rumah Selangor, rumahwip, Pr1ma etc and buyers not necessarily buying from private developers.

This post has been edited by gks: Dec 10 2018, 07:32 PM
TSholypredator
post Dec 10 2018, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(flight @ Dec 10 2018, 07:21 PM)
Surprised that people think that buying early phases is supposed to be a guarenteed win. Although Mahsings basically had a sales strategy to pull in people who had no ability to hold the property.
*
I don't anyone is hoping to win from buying a new project but of course no one would expect to lose right after you've signed the SAP.


icemanfx
post Dec 10 2018, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(flight @ Dec 10 2018, 07:21 PM)
Surprised that people think that buying early phases is supposed to be a guarenteed win. Although Mahsings basically had a sales strategy to pull in people who had no ability to hold the property.
*
Before dibs, buyer needs to pay loan interest during construction period. By the time, the property is vped, it's cost includes loan interest incurred. Hence price is naturally higher than launch price. However, uuu took this price rise as god given rights to buyer and ignore loan interest during construction is already included in the dibs launch price.

Before 2011, those couldn't fork out 20% down payment were considered sub prime by banks. Low entry cost is particularly aimed at these sub prime borrowers. Hence, property auction is recently on the rise.
AskarPerang
post Mar 7 2019, 08:26 PM

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Here another good example from a reputable developer, YTL: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92020627

The Fennel @ Sentul
After doing my own research on these two buildings (Fennel and Capers), investors better stay away from it.

It grabbed my attention when developers opened their own units for sale at BELOW LAUNCH PRICE......very fishy. Why would they even think of that, unless the know something? Either running out of money or knows the market value of this place cannot hold for long and I believe it's the latter. They got their money from the initial 70% sales, and dumping these last units for a price which is still a 'profit' when looking 5 years down the road.

Ridiculous price to buy now, rental is a joke. Mid end condos and poorly maintained buildings in Subang and PJ can command similar/higher rental.

However, if you bought for own stay and convenient to get to work, then it's not a bad buy. But for investment...no way.

jhuitan
post Mar 7 2019, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(powerlinkers @ Dec 9 2018, 02:19 PM)
Be careful. A lot scams are ongoing for new properties sale: i.e. Pakatan Harapan Fundmyhome, moreover properties being offered for purchase with just RM4000 downpayment(RM500k property inflated about 20-40% of market price with zero deposit) by major developers like MahSing.

When these properties enter secondary market: the price would plunge about 30% . Unfortunately: buyers need to bear the cost and developers will rejoice.

If you wish to be safe: buy secondary properties below market valuation at this point.
*
The HOC program tax exempted only applied to new house but not subsale market a bit disappointed..first home buyer not limit to new house only, some prefer buy subsale
AskarPerang
post Mar 7 2019, 10:39 PM

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Another example here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4748514
Seems to be happening at every project in the market that cannot be sold.


I bought a property 2 years ago on a project by this developer.
Although the project is still in progress, the developer had yet to finish selling the units.

Recently, they are making a promotion for all left over unit.
The prices are getting 30% discount + rebate subject to some tnc.
(pm me for the details and project name)

Is that common trend now?
So, I had already loss money, quite upset here.
Is that fair enough for the early purchasers?

woolei
post Mar 7 2019, 11:23 PM

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i have a feeling that those new property lay among the LRT/MRT line will suffer for rental war, auction and default risk after completion.

Example: Maluri Station->Kajang station, Jalan Ipoh->Cyberjaya Station.

the best move now is to continue survey, hunt for lelong or cheap subsales unit.
corleone74
post Mar 7 2019, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(funniman @ Dec 10 2018, 07:04 PM)
9 years ago, I bought a Sime Darby house. That time also property crash. SD did not reduce price but they give early bird eg 10k, free MOT which is about RM30k, free legal fees for loans and S&P...Think that is better. I think SD has lots of properties in Nilai area which could not move. But for Klang valley ones, should be ok.

But given a choice now, I rather buy a unit in the secondary market even at inflated price as long as I see and like the unit rather than to buy off plan.
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these days many developer even large reputable ones (don't wanna mention which ones) giving discount and vouchers and freebies left right center and they also DROP the price to clear stock.

so i agree with you .

buy off plan and early mover advantage only applies to a hot market.

in a sideways and tanking market, if one buys from those top 10 developer esp in new or ulu location but priced high due to so called "luxury" features... good chance of seeing one's "investment" shedding it's capital value . by the time the market starts to revive the "new" property has become a 10 year "old" property.


This post has been edited by corleone74: Mar 7 2019, 11:58 PM
sonnytan09
post Mar 8 2019, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(AskarPerang @ Dec 9 2018, 01:39 AM)
Real case study:

D'Sara Sentral by Mah Sing. Late buyer got throw in 25% rebate while early bird only got 9% rebate.
You can read it yourself here: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=86920761
Continuation part 2 (with typical alasan): https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=86969476
Paper loss 100k stated by 1 of the buyer himself: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=86978041
and can read from that post onwards......
Real case study #2:

No need to guess is from the same developer again!!!
M City, Jalan Ampang.
Project completed 2 years ago. But developer units still fail to sell out. (How to sell when got so many units end up cheaper price in auction?)
So what to do? Throw in big rebate to sell.
Unit dispose same like 7 years ago early bird pricing. If count progressive interest, and 7 years of lost opportunity. Late buyer actually got big advantage. 
Read: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=89879928
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Bro, any guideline or percentage of unsold developer unit (after VP) that based on your experience will trigger the alarming status of the project?
I think there will always be leftover developer unit nowadays. It's just that how many leftover is too much.. hmm
BeastB
post Mar 8 2019, 08:59 AM

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I've always said buying from developer is always a RIPOFF. Very hard to win, very easy to lose.

I only deal subsale units. All the BS promos like "free SPA, free this free that"....no thanks, all nicely priced into the property and risk transferred to the buyer - and all the suckers will buy.



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