Has Indonesia bought the 3 additional Type 209 submarines?

Remember the unmanned systems unveiled by Singapore Technologies in the last Singapore Airshow 2018 e.g. Stinger UAS:







Watch how it all comes together in network-centric manner linked by Sg's battle management system (not all platforms shown..but you get the picture):






This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 16 2019, 12:22 PM

Aster is expensive. And Sg has invested in it. I do not think you are eligible for Standard missile. So, in the event Indonesia actually buys such a frigate (which I doubt will happen soon because of the costs), it will be equipped with a short to medium range missile system like CAAM or CAAM-ER and not Aster 30 or Standard.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 16 2019, 12:17 PM

I was talking about Aster 30 missile and not Aster 15. Aster 15 is the equivalent of ESSM or CAMM-ER with range in excess of 30km or as reported by some publications max range of 40km. Qatar's treasury is overflowing with money and unlike Indonesia is a creditor nation and not debtor.

Again, I do not think this deal will happen any time soon.

The Iver is not exactly a new design - 10 year old. And if Indonesia is not going to install a long range missile system like Aster 30, the frigate will be a pared down version i.e. why in the world are you going buy an expensive but dated Smart-L radar. Euro navies are already moving on to planar arrays in the next evolution of their frigates.

I am very impressed with what Israel has done with its new "corvettes".

For a 90m, 2000 ton ship, it is better armed than the Iver that comes with wide area defence and point defence missile defence systems:

>48 Barak 8 and C-Dome missile systems
up to 24 anti-ship/surface missiles
torps,
76mm gun
long range Elta AESA radars

Well, I will be keen to see that happens meanwhile. Azerbaijan bought aster 30? May buy and bought are 2 different things. Further, they do not have much military goods to spend on, relatively speaking. Turkey has bought or may buy? Or S-400? And Turkey is a NATO member.

When and if the Iver comes out, it will be swimming with Australia's Hobart and Type 26 frigates, latest Chinese ships, Singapore's upgraded Formidables (hmm, I need to do a post on this) and MRCV frigates, etc.

<edited>..you know what, I dont want to be demoralizing. Lets just wait and see..and I hope Indonesia actually buys this. I am also keen to see the specs. But I do think that it will be pared down version of the Iver. /thumbsup

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 16 2019, 04:13 PM

Following the reference to Aster 30s, I did some checks and found that a single land battery costs between 340 to 400 million USD a few years ago.

https://corporalfrisk.com/2014/11/23/a-grou...em-for-finland/

Open sources revealed that Sg has 2 or 3 batteries so far..probably bought in stages... think they will have 4 to 5 land batteries eventually.

Paams found on Type 45, horizon destroyers and SAAM ESD(which uses the Herakles radar) found on the Formidables and incoming Fremm AAW frigates should be just as expensive or slighly less so esp. if you include the radar.

Too bad it isnt a front runner..or more importantly have yet to be bought.

Too much wishful thinking.

Can someone answer my question - has indonesia bought 3 more chong bos?

Hmm..Aster 15 is local area air defence which also includes point defence. Hence, ships with Aster 15 usually do not carry further point defence systems like sea-ram, goal-keeper, etc. And because it is an active missile, less of it is needed as compared to the semi-active ESSM (or so the argument goes) - ESSM needs guidance from the ship i.e. illumination radar so more missiles are launched to ensure a hit.

Aster 30 is wide area air defence.

Point defence refers to systems like Sea-wolf, Barak , Sea-Ram, etc.

Singapore's Aster 30 SAMP/T:







https://www.mbda-systems.com/?action=force-...chment_id=14212

Aster 15 and Aster 30 are effective against cruise missiles, aircraft, supersonic cruise missiles, etc. In addition, Aster 30 Blk 0 (or Blk 1) is effective against ballistic missiles with range of about 500km to 1000km. Aster 30 Blk 1 NT is effective against ballistic missiles with range of up to 1500km. Aster 30 blk 2 is like Thaad (effective against intercontinental ballistic missiles) and in development but will use the same launchers as the current Aster 30. As Aster 30 Blk 1 NT is coming online in 2020 (?), it is likely that Sg's Aster 30s on land and sea (on board the Formidables) are the Blk 0 (or Blk 1) version for now. Draw a line from Singapore to Chinese controlled islands in the South China Sea - that is about >300-1000km.


Aster 30 Blk 0 (or Blk 1) Blk INT and Blk 2

Hence, Singapore is possibly the only country in South East Asia with a viable defence against ballistic missiles.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 17 2019, 02:25 PM

Close-up image of Singapore's new MRCV frigate - the first vessel is expected in 2025:







Mai's notes:

1) Now it reminds me of the FFX design by Lockheed Martin: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/n...ate-design.html
I say that because the Lockheed's FFX is a stretched Freedom class LCS which is modular and capable of carrying USVs, UAVs, etc. The FFX is about 125m to 130m and max tonnage is around >6000 tons. The MRCV seems slightly longer because of the centre multi purpose deck which (like the Formidable) can hold as many as 24 SSMs missiles.

2) The MRCV seems to be using some form of Surface-to-Surface Missile Module (SSMM) (see below pic) - look at the 4 boxes behind the main gun on the MRCV:



This would mean that the MRCV can easily be installed with a variety of weapons e.g. VLS launchers from hell-fires to Asters. A single SSMM should be large enough hold up to 16 VLS MK41 type launchers or 2 Slyver A-50 or 2 A-70 launchers which has 16 Slyver VLS launchers. Since the MRCV seems to have 4 SSMM, it could possibly carry as many as 64 VLS launchers.

3) The aft of the ship will need to be longer and larger than the Formidable to hold large USVs, UUVs and RHIBs.
This was shown in the last Singapore Airshow by ST Marine (see top frigate aft multi-purpose recovery system for RHIBs and USVs) :



Disclaimer: My own thoughts based on what is available online.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 18 2019, 08:24 PM

Yes. It is the same dart generally. Speed differs - Aster 15 has a max speed of between Mach 3.5 to 4. And Aster 30 has a mach speed of about Mach 4.5.

Blk 0= Blk 1. Some publications call it Blk 0. There are only Bllk 1(or Blk 0 as some call it), Blk 1nt and Blk 2 for now.

Blk 2 is a totally new missile akin to Arrow and Thaad. It is meant specifically for ICBMs. Blk 1 (or Blk 0) and Blk 1nt are meant for cruise missiles, supersonic missiles, aircraft and up to intermediate range ballistic missiles. The difference between Blk 1 (or Blk 0) and Blk 1nt is that the Blk 1nt has an even better missile radar and can tackle longer ranged intermediate ballistic missiles.


For certain Sg's Aster 30s are Blk 1 versions. It doesnt mean SG will not acquire the Blk 1nt version as Sg likes to buy in batches. At any rate, Sg's land based Asters are not using the Arable MFC but is connected to Sg's network of sensors. As the Arable is land based, it is limited by OTH issues - max 70km to 80km? So, it cannot fully utilize the range of the Asters. But i n Sg's case, the Aster missile would be able to be vectored by air assets like Sg's AWACs, F15SG, F16V, F35s, that ballon radar, etc. so it can hit enemy missiles and aircraft at max range. Ditto for Asters on the Formidables.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 17 2019, 10:39 PM

Upgraded F15Sg? To what? F15X? The current F15Sg is contemporaeneous with the Suk 30 to 35 series.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 20 2019, 05:47 PM

Sipri recently released 2018 arms deliveries updates which showed that Singapore received 2 SAMP/T Aster 30 batteries which cost Euro 651 million (751 million USD) and 200 Aster 30 interceptors. Each SAMP/T battery has 6 Aster missile launchers with 8 Aster 30 missiles each. So 2 batteries would mean 96 ready to launch Aster 30 missiles. The other 104 Aster 30 missiles are likely for 2 more additional batteries or reserves. At any rate, as SG buys in batches, I expect SG to end up with around 5 SAMP/T Aster 30 batteries in total. These batteries can be augmented by the Aster 15s/30s on board the Formidable and new MRCV frigates. I cannot explain how insane and suicidal it is for any enemy fighter jet to fly into that web of Aster 30s, Aster 15s, Spyders, Bolides, Mistrals, Iglas and other anti-air missiles all networked.

Also, it is interesting to note that Sipri still lists Sg as having received 25 2A7 leopard main battle tanks in 2018.

Mai's note:

1) Sg has officially denied buying Leopard 2A7 tanks. However, it does not deny getting more Leopard 2 MBTs. Sg should have around 185 to 200 Leopard 2 MBTs by now. It remains to be seen if Sg will continue to receive Leopard 2 tanks in 2019.

2) Could SG formally want to establish an armoured division? It has enough tanks including the Merks: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3279200/all

3) Sg's SAMP/T purchase excludes radars. SG uses its own sensor network of radars on the ground, sea and air to track and shoot at enemy targets.


Leopard 2A7 tank

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 21 2019, 09:32 PM

Hehe

Kazakhstan's Minister of Defence confirms the existence of the latest Gabriels missile which is called Gabriel X, and it is an advanced supersonic variant.

http://kaspex.kz/en/rynok-vooruzhenij/812-...es-gabriel.html

It seems that this is the version that Finland bought, as this is the latest version and not Gabriel 5. Finland opted for this missiles over Harpoon Blk 2 Plus ER (network centric) (with range of 300km), NSM (185km range), new RBS15 Gungnir (300km range) and Exocet Blk 3 (180km range). The Gabriel X is expected to have a range of up 400km and can attack both sea and land targets. It is optimized to work well in littoral conditions in addition to open sea engagements.

Furthermore, the Israeli navy (bizarrely like Singapore, had not updated its harpoon missiles for years or replaced them, in spite of acquiring new systems and platforms) is already spotted with the launch canisters. Pictures from the link above and source is from gettyimages:






A supersonic missile launch was noted by defence analysts during a naval exercise in 2016 which seems to look like a ramjet propelled missile:



See 0.12mins into video - that is not a harpoon missile

https://defense-update.com/20160327_israeli...ip_missile.html

This post has been edited by Mai189: Mar 24 2019, 09:41 AM

The Chinese are bullying every claimant in the Spratlys and south china sea, including My, and My wants to be beholden to China for weapons and planes?

I would not read too much into that crash let alone any combat jet crash. But if there are issues, it is good that it is found now...


Here is a list of brand new Euro Typhoon crashes...including those when the type was just introduced...

https://fighterjetsworld.com/air/fighter-je...sh-so-far/6127/

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15088...-just-one-month

This post has been edited by Mai189: Apr 9 2019, 09:20 PM

St Engineering Marine's latest naval maritime solution brochure..slurp:

https://www.stengg.com/media/617585/st-engi...wift-series.pdf

Includes a >41m longe range and long endurance USV...SG could literally create a fleet of fully armed robot warships...



Other solutions include:

The are very close with Singapore...just like the Johor monarchy.