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 Used Citroen DS5

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kadajawi
post Jan 19 2018, 06:39 AM

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QUOTE(stimix @ Jan 16 2018, 09:43 AM)
Hydraulic suspension system leaking especially the balloon & spider web system can be a messy and expensive business.

Nevertheless it's a very comfortable car to drive minus the countless visit to workshop..well ex cotroen owner here
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See? That's what I mean. The DS5 doesn't have a hydraulic suspension. Citroen has stopped making those.

Also, driving environment kinder? Spain is hotter than Malaysia. Potholes? Yeah, we have those in Europe too. Ever been to Berlin? Can compete with JB. The worst holes are being fixed, but the fix usually goes too far, meaning it's very bumpy again. Also, they don't spray salt everywhere in Malaysia. The roads aren't covered in salt. Aggressive, corroding salt. It's also not covered in small stones that fly everywhere, destroying radiators (you should see my radiator), paint, windscreens, ...

In any case, maintain your car well, and it should treat you well. Don't try to be cheap... that will bite you (it will with all cars, just that a conti will bite you harder because it's not so easy to fix in Malaysia). For me it was the head gasket seal... the issue was noticed too late, and the fix didn't go far enough (or it was too late for it). So it failed again. Can happen with any car, just that with an exotic conti, you can't find a replacement engine easily.
TSHey_Dexx
post Jan 19 2018, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(Portalese @ Jan 18 2018, 03:41 PM)
Would like to give a few pointers. Hope these helps so you can enjoy your ownership. I'm an owner of multiple big Citroens. Currently still driving one on daily basis.

SUMMARY : In short, I would say treat a Citroen like a French girl. They have attitudes and their own requirements. They are proper continental cars, cheap to buy expensive to maintain. They're not for everyone. But if you love designs and novelty, and you can feed them properly, they will return your love, in a big way. If this is your first continental car, I would advise against buying a Citroen. Also, if you care about Resell Value, stop reading now. Citroen isn't for you.

1. Prepare to deal with spare parts down time. Do not believe in stockist or Naza warehouse. Major spare parts are mostly directly brought in from France upon placing orders. Place orders earlier when there are symptoms (usually technician will inform during service intervals), do not drag until last minute. Expect 1~3 months down time for major issue. Personally I had experienced 6 months down time after accident. DS5 is introduced worldwide back in 2011, expect even lesser support starting from 2021.

2. My current daily run on a THP engine, with full Naza service record. You can send to outside foreman but do at your own risk. First issue is extremely hard to find a someone that specialised in new Citroens. Especially newer and bigger Citroens are designed to be quirky and odd inside and outside. Secondly, you're losing your warranties. There are a standard 5 years warranty and extra 2 years warranty. The latter only covers your engine and drivetrain, but Naza / Brooklands service record is one of the requirement.

3. Why is the extra 2 years warranty important? Because to replace the turbo + peripherals alone will cost you RM12k. Rocker arm cover and engine mountings around RM3k+. Be realistic. THP stand for Turbo High Pressure, and it's the pioneer of downsizing + turbo decade ago. You're bound to face this, it's normal. Peugeots and Minis with EP6 Prince engines suffer the same too. Don't compare to a Japanese or naturally aspirated car.

4. The worst of luck is climate control system failure. The cost is from RM2k(cooling coil) to RM15k (evaporator housings and their reduction gears) worst case. I personally do not see this as big issue also because I had same experiences with Mercedes, BMW and Volvo (Yes, don't believe that German cars are bullet proof). One thing I learn though, is never let the climate control work in 'auto' mode. Manually set your temperature and fan speed for all 4 zones. That could prolong the life span.

5. Normal service cost is on par with, if not slightly cheaper than Germans. Key costs include 5.5L of Mobil 1 @ RM70+ per L, brake pads @ RM400+ per pairs, brake disc @ RM500+ per pairs, Naza pricing. I drive my daily fast and hard like a hooligan (yes, I'm not joking), service costs are around RM700+, RM2k+, RM700+, RM2k+...10k km or 3 months interval. Expect lesser for your part if you're a tame driver. I would advise against using Petronas Syntium, the engine feels reluctant to work under Malaysian hot afternoon sun.

6. Maintain your car on strict basis, or even more frequent than what is recommended. THP beefiness and French car hard braking is sweet only when it runs on optimal conditions. You'll hate driving your car if it's not properly maintained. In the event of accident, minor or major, tow back to Sungai Besi Citroen service centre. They do body and painting, and they claimed from insurance.

7. For fuel, RON97 is recommended. RON95 can be used but the engine run very coarse. The difference is very obvious.

(P/S : Sorry for the length. As an owner, I feel sick reading or hearing non owners bashing the marque based on hearsay. Citroens deserve justice.)
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Wow!
Thanks Portalese really appreciate your comment! 😃👍

SKYjack
post Jan 19 2018, 11:30 AM

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Bro Hey_Dexx
DS5 is a lovely car,if you like it go for it. I'll point out some details you should know. 2 engine options were brought to Malaysia - 1.6thp & 2.2turbo diesel. I did quite a bit of research on 1.6thp Prince engine, found some valuable info.

Early Prince engines has a few issues. The engine has gone through a complete make over in 2012(code:EP6CDTM) which has made it reliable, most of the early issues were solved. As a result PSA offered this, as one of its engine option on Sedan/hatchback/SUV/MPV vehicles as 2014, on both Citroens & Peugeots.

Prince has gone through further refinement which is now fitted to facelift models. Since you are looking at a used one, go for the EP6CDTM engine.

EP6CDTM carried the following mods:
1) Engine tuned to run on RON 87 petrol
2) Remapped ECU
3) New designed piston with lower compression
4) New designed catalyzer.
5) New engine oil filter housing with heat exchanger
6) New turbo charger
7) New fuel tank gauge unit with lower pressure pump to handle lower grade petrol.
8) A fuel filter to cater for hash atmospheric condition ( third world country)

I'm glad to say mine is 6 years now and running without any issues! Fortunately there are now Citroen/Peugeot specialist workshops in Klang valley. I can testify these guys do a better job than most authorised SC. I dare say your car can be maintained in top condition by these workshops! Here are their contacts for your use.

This post has been edited by SKYjack: Jan 19 2018, 11:34 AM


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edthrax
post Jan 19 2018, 12:11 PM

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dont listen to those hearsay bashers.. they dont own the car but bash because of what they hear..

I own a french car too.. they tend to be a bit manja, but if u take car of the car, you'll get a rewarding drive..

i've own mine for 4 years now, no hiccups, so far no downtime and service center i go to really takes care of my car... Gotten great mileage and power from the car , I'm driving a 2.2 Turbodiesel engine..

Parts might be expensive compares to the likes of honda or toyota.. but thats a common fact for any conti cars..

If ur kind of person who are into cars, willing to find time to source out parts, then it might suit u, but if u kind of person that ..start car ..drive..then ignore symptom2 of car getting sick.. french cars are not for u...

ayamxxx
post Jan 19 2018, 12:57 PM

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Can someone enlighten me for the ds5 engine? Since it using 1.6THP but with 156hp, iinm it's stand for 1st edition for prince engine.

As later getting parts improvement, ie with 165hp.
Will the ds5 is a reliable says I'm no problem sending it to scl for service?
TSHey_Dexx
post Jan 19 2018, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(SKYjack @ Jan 19 2018, 11:30 AM)
Bro Hey_Dexx
DS5 is a lovely car,if you like it go for it. I'll point out some details you should know. 2 engine options were brought to Malaysia - 1.6thp & 2.2turbo diesel. I did quite a bit of research on 1.6thp Prince engine, found some valuable info. 

Early Prince engines has a few issues. The engine has gone through a complete make over in 2012(code:EP6CDTM) which has made it reliable, most of the early issues were solved. As a result PSA offered this, as one of its engine option on Sedan/hatchback/SUV/MPV vehicles as 2014, on both Citroens & Peugeots.

Prince has gone through further refinement which is now fitted to facelift models. Since you are looking at a used one, go for the EP6CDTM engine.

EP6CDTM  carried the following mods:
1) Engine tuned to run on RON 87 petrol
2) Remapped ECU
3) New designed piston with lower compression
4) New designed catalyzer.
5) New engine oil filter housing with heat exchanger
6) New turbo charger
7) New fuel tank gauge unit with lower pressure pump to handle lower grade petrol.
8) A fuel filter to cater for hash atmospheric condition ( third world country)

I'm glad to say mine is 6 years now and running without any issues! Fortunately there are now Citroen/Peugeot specialist workshops in Klang valley. I can testify these guys do a better job than most authorised SC. I dare say your car can be maintained in top condition by these workshops! Here are their contacts for your use.
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SKYjack thanks for the information bro!! Definitely help me in making the decision. I'm well aware the cost of maintaining the car will be on the higher side which I have allocated some amout of RM. I'm glad to hear that you dont have any major issues with the car. My real concern is on the time spend going back to SC/workshop on a regular basis. So now i need to find model that carry that said code. Thanks again for the information! 👍👍
Dwango
post Jan 21 2018, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Jan 17 2018, 08:22 AM)
I agree that it's very rare, rarer than S class and 7 series. My former manager drove one, very outstanding in the sea of cars. I can't help take a few more look when approaching the car park before i drive back home.
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I would have to make a correction. It's actually not more than 3 years but 5-6 years since I last saw the Citroen DS5. IT's really very rare. Yes, it's even easier to spot an S class or 7 series on the roads here.

It's really as rare as a diamond.
ayamxxx
post Jan 21 2018, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(Dwango @ Jan 21 2018, 12:18 PM)
I would have to make a correction. It's actually not more than 3 years but 5-6 years since I last saw the Citroen DS5. IT's really very rare. Yes, it's even easier to spot an S class or 7 series on the roads here.

It's really as rare as a diamond.
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But the interior is just beautiful
potatobanana
post Jan 21 2018, 05:55 PM

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Very nice car, but also require a lot pampering.
jimmylkw86
post Jan 22 2018, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Hey_Dexx @ Jan 15 2018, 08:26 PM)
Decided to purchase used DS5 as a 2nd car.   Price wise quite reasonable 80-90K for 2013-2014 model.  Any feeback from owners in terms of reliability and the total cost ownership.  Tq 🙏😀
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Hi Dexx, Thanks for opening this thread. I'm was considering the used DS5 too as my weekend car. I like the cool looking and aero-design interior..gathering all the information now before get it. Most concern of the Price TH156 engine and many people comment that it's use the same engine as Peugeot 308(which the most problematic engine).

This post has been edited by jimmylkw86: Jan 22 2018, 01:22 PM
wkc5657
post Jan 22 2018, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(jimmylkw86 @ Jan 22 2018, 01:21 PM)
Hi Dexx, Thanks for opening this thread. I'm was considering the used DS5 too as my weekend car. I like the cool looking and aero-design interior..gathering all the information now before get it. Most concern of the Price TH156 engine and many people comment that it's use the same engine as Peugeot 308(which the most problematic engine).
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You better go test drive it a little more seriously, the unfacelifted version was criticised for really harsh ride.
ayamxxx
post Jan 22 2018, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(jimmylkw86 @ Jan 22 2018, 01:21 PM)
Hi Dexx, Thanks for opening this thread. I'm was considering the used DS5 too as my weekend car. I like the cool looking and aero-design interior..gathering all the information now before get it. Most concern of the Price TH156 engine and many people comment that it's use the same engine as Peugeot 308(which the most problematic engine).
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from what i read on net, it used the same engine as Peugeot 308 turbo, 1.6 prince engine with 156hp 240nm.
if it the exact same engine, then it is not really a reliable engine.
newest or updated prince engine (with many part redesign n updates) as current used in peugeot 3008, previous and current 408 use the 1.6T Prince engine with 165hp, 240nm.
one famous design error is the timing chain snap without warning.
correct me if i wrong
jimmylkw86
post Jan 23 2018, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(ayamxxx @ Jan 22 2018, 02:05 PM)
from what i read on net, it used the same engine as Peugeot 308 turbo, 1.6 prince engine with 156hp 240nm.
if it the exact same engine, then it is not really a reliable engine.
newest or updated prince engine (with many part redesign n updates) as current used in peugeot 3008, previous and current 408 use the 1.6T Prince engine with 165hp, 240nm.
one famous design error is the timing chain snap without warning.
correct me if i wrong
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Based on what my research, peugeot 308 and citreon ds5 is using the same engine but different type of code. So there don;t have the same issue with peugeot 308. Any idea?
Portalese
post Jan 23 2018, 10:34 AM

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Ok. Engine talk. You can see your engine code on mountings and turbo heat shield.

Marketing terms : THP155 (155hp), THP165 (165hp), THP200 (200hp)
(Note 1 : EP6 engines are underrated on paper. I always get 5~10hp more on dyno run. On wheels, Petron RON100, cooler weather)

Car guy terms : EP6CDT, EP6CDTM, EP6CDTX
(Note 2 : Most Malaysian Citroens are EP6CDT. Newer facelifts EP6CDTM. EP6CDTX on DS4 racing THP200)

Don't worry if you got EP6CDT. Remember the 2 years extended warranty programme? They came with PSA Enhancement programme. Basically you can change new turbo kits, mountings etc, technically updating EP6CDT to EP6CDTM, FOR FREE! That's why I recommend long term wise stick with official service centre. You're banging couple hundreds extras for these ten of thousands juicy parts! Yes, as an owner I'm that calculative! *GRIN* But this shouldn't be new to you if you own Germans, they'll do the same.

Oh, they'll update your ECU mapping too. But I dislike the new one. Less growl, less emission, slightly tamer, greener.

Last note. I think we, as newer Citroen owners should band together for knowledge and defence against common hearsay. Although a lot of Citroen enthusiasts in Malaysia, but majority of them are classic Citroens or Xsara / Xantia era.

This post has been edited by Portalese: Jan 23 2018, 10:53 AM
SKYjack
post Jan 23 2018, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(jimmylkw86 @ Jan 22 2018, 01:21 PM)
Hi Dexx, Thanks for opening this thread. I'm was considering the used DS5 too as my weekend car. I like the cool looking and aero-design interior..gathering all the information now before get it. Most concern of the Price TH156 engine and many people comment that it's use the same engine as Peugeot 308(which the most problematic engine).
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THP156 is an improved Prince. Its THP140 that is problematic. Both these came on the 308.

Take your time and get the THP163, i think from 2014. This engine was 1st introduced on 408t. 8mods were done, which has made this engine reliable. I've listed the mods earlier.
jimmylkw86
post Jan 23 2018, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(Portalese @ Jan 23 2018, 09:34 AM)
Ok. Engine talk. You can see your engine code on mountings and turbo heat shield.

Marketing terms : THP155 (155hp), THP165 (165hp), THP200 (200hp)
(Note 1 : EP6 engines are underrated on paper. I always get 5~10hp more on dyno run. On wheels, Petron RON100, cooler weather)

Car guy terms : EP6CDT, EP6CDTM, EP6CDTX
(Note 2 : Most Malaysian Citroens are EP6CDT. Newer facelifts EP6CDTM. EP6CDTX on DS4 racing THP200)

Don't worry if you got EP6CDT. Remember the 2 years extended warranty programme? They came with PSA Enhancement programme. Basically you can change new turbo kits, mountings etc, technically updating EP6CDT to EP6CDTM, FOR FREE! That's why I recommend long term wise stick with official service centre. You're banging couple hundreds extras for these ten of thousands juicy parts! Yes, as an owner I'm that calculative! *GRIN* But this shouldn't be new to you if you own Germans, they'll do the same.

Oh, they'll update your ECU mapping too. But I dislike the new one. Less growl, less emission, slightly tamer, greener.

Last note. I think we, as newer Citroen owners should band together for knowledge and defence against common hearsay. Although a lot of Citroen enthusiasts in Malaysia, but majority of them are classic Citroens or Xsara / Xantia era.
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Thanks Portalese, i'm thinking to get Citreon DS5 2013 version. Not sure is the warranty over or not. I think i should check with the last owner for this whether upgraded to EP6CDT to EP6CDTM already or not.
jimmylkw86
post Jan 23 2018, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(SKYjack @ Jan 23 2018, 10:55 AM)
THP156 is an improved Prince. Its THP140 that is problematic. Both these came on the 308.

Take your time and get the THP163, i think from 2014. This engine was 1st introduced on 408t. 8mods were done, which has made this engine reliable. I've listed the mods earlier.
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I'm thinking to get Citreon DS5 2013(THP156) version. That's the reason why i not sure is the engine issue solved or not. Any idea?
jimmylkw86
post Jan 23 2018, 12:16 PM

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Any one know any Citroen Specialist Workshop in JB?
SKYjack
post Jan 24 2018, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(jimmylkw86 @ Jan 23 2018, 12:15 PM)
I'm thinking to get Citreon DS5 2013(THP156) version. That's the reason why i not sure is the engine issue solved or not. Any idea?
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If the DS5 2013 is EP6CDTM, do not hesitate, buy it! It may be EP6CDT, if price is right get it. This engine has been retuned & 90% of the old issues solved. You may need to do decarbo to clear carbon deposits earlier freequency with this version. THP200 version was not brought to Malaysia on DS5.

Enhancements are free but they are not conversions. Enhancements are for specific versions and stay as such. Meaning EP6CDT will not be converted to EP6CDTM. If done, will not be done for free. You could do it outside workshop,I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Remember 8 mods were done on EP6CDTM, a complete make over. Even pistons were redesigned as well as other crytical components, so it's not just a simple coversion kit!

IMO some addition maintennace is all that is needed to keep EP6CDT running well!

This post has been edited by SKYjack: Jan 24 2018, 11:49 AM
Portalese
post Jan 25 2018, 10:41 AM

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Actually I did my enhancement for free, all your mentioned parts, new sensors and more, except mapping and pistons. Finance side Naza claimed from PSA France directly. Lots of strict Terms and conditions applied though. I've been told some Singaporean Cycle and Carriage Citroens also benefitted under the same programme. Seems like a PSA global thingy. I didn't even bought the car from local distributor.

The reason I rejected mapping and pistons because I have different vision for the car. Third party ECU tweak and remain as high compression FI. The quest for 250hp 320Nm. :-)

Too many new turbo cars on the road nowadays. Older cars must update a bit.

This post has been edited by Portalese: Jan 25 2018, 10:46 AM

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