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> Property agents who buy buyers' information, You be the judge

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TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 03:46 PM, updated 5y ago

Yes, that was my car.
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Senior Member
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Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


Since that this practice of illegally obtaining information of buyers either from "middle men" or directly from developers or banks are rampant. I have decided to name and shame these property agents who practise this irresponsible act.

Now, don't get me wrong, I have sent the information to the relevant authorities such as SKMM and PDP, but it seems like nothing is working. So I'll just put my findings here. You be the judge.

If the mod feels this is inappropriate, please feel free to delete this. I personally feel that the cavalier attitude of people who handle personal data should be made aware that there must be consequences. Our authorities are not doing enough (see the Great Malaysian Data Breach as reported by LYN) hence we must protect ourselves.

I think the only way is to hurt their reputation. They must know that this practice is not OK.

1. Simon Realty E (3) 1451

Agent: Nicky Ling Tel No: 017-9888339

Background: I'm the owner of a newly VPed SOHO and received a message. I called him posing as an interested person and he said he bought the information from a so-called "middle man" named "Joseph". When asked further on how to contact this "Joseph" he said he will message me, but up till today no news.

Attached Image

2. Technilai Estate Agents E (3) 1527

Agents: CK Yap Tel No: 017-8822191 and Irene Tel No: 012-337 2998

Background: Same property. Whatsapp and asked him what is the source of the information. He came up with a made up story of one "Mr Lee" another owner, who passed on my information. Pressed on further, but he couldn't come up with the source.

Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

I have a few more spam and will update once I get their company's name.

The information here is true at time of writing.

Edit 1: Updated with conversation with Irene.

Update 13/12/2017: Got a call from Maxis and they said they have suspended the Maxis numbers as the numbers exhibit spam patterns. It's in their usage policy that they can suspend numbers if it's used as spam. That's a small win I guess. But it's their own words, they could have just said it and done nothing about it, and I have no way to know.

Also got a reply from PDP. This time a longer one as other replies before only contained an automated reply. They said that commercial contacts without our consent are not illegal (contrary to the PDPA 2010 Section 7, Notice and Choice Principle), but we have the right to give a written reply to spammer to stop and delete all our data. Only if it was not complied, then only it is an offence. Well, that's our government folks.

This post has been edited by kelvinlym: Dec 13 2017, 04:06 PM
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 05:54 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
1,077 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(tongyk @ Dec 12 2017, 05:25 PM)
Bro this is Msia and our contacts are every where. Our contacts can be bought from various department. Especially as we're properties owners. Once we registered with TNB, our contacts revealed. I'm not saying TNB leak out our data. But there're always people are selling or buying it.
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I know. But are you going to just sit down and accept it?

It's up to you. I'm just doing my part. It's like throwing that stranded starfish back into the sea. It doesn't matter to every starfish, but it means a lot to that particular one.

I'm just putting this here so that if someone, somewhere is searching for reputable realtors, they at least have this information for them to make a decision.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 06:01 PM

Yes, that was my car.
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From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(accetera @ Dec 12 2017, 05:44 PM)
Property owners data are easily available since donkey years ago. Nothing new.
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We've been living in caves thousands of years ago. Why change for the better?

If you feel that the misappropriation of user personal data is a small matter, then it's up to you.

I am doing my part, whatever small part it is to change.

The cavalier attitude of Malaysians with personal data is no laughing matter. I once got some documents from Public Bank, where along with my own documents, the bank used scans of other people's bank documents to thicken or pad the package, so that it doesn't get folded.

The scans contain bank account numbers, names, withdrawal amounts, cheques cleared etc. I've lodged a complaint to PDP and Bank Negara. PDP replied in a day saying they have forwarded to Unit Siasatan while Bank Negara just acknowledged receipt of complaint after 11 days.

So, is this a wonder how the Great Malaysian Data Breach happened? Consumers must be aware of their data and do their part in reporting. Even if you think nothing will change, at least educate others and let people be wary.

In short, I can't change what you think, but I'll do my part in educating others to make a choice.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 06:06 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
1,077 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(ryan@chua @ Dec 12 2017, 05:56 PM)
Even here Lowyat Forum selling ur data to company whoever willing to pay it
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If it is written in their Terms of Use and have prior consent, I have no qualms about it.

Heck, it is even allowed under PDPA 2010 as long as I have given consent.

But selling data illegally obtained without consent is not.

Example: When I buy my property, there is nowhere written in the S&P and any contracts saying they will use my data for marketing purposes and sell to other parties. If there is one, and I tick it, then fine, go ahead.

Even in the act, it says that the person using the data (even if legally obtained with consent) must have the data source recorded, and consent must be explicitly given. And if the owner of the data wants it deleted, they must comply.

Please read PDPA 2010 and its accompanying principles of the act.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 11:15 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
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Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sengg @ Dec 12 2017, 08:15 PM)
I'm assuming you're buying the house for own stay? Now, let's consider the alternative, after getting your house key not even a single agent contact you bc technically there's no way to reach you.....lead time of getting a tenant is prolonged....and in the subsequent years you have to manually search for agents...now u decide! Cheers. thumbsup.gif 

P/s: Tarnishing someone's reputation might not be a good solution...i thought
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I understand where you're coming from. However, if an owner wants to find a tenant by engaging a realtor, there's something called Google. Furthermore, a realtor is a business, where they should have their information public or have their business details advertised. The owner did not agree to disseminate his/her info voluntarily and was stolen.

Now, if I myself put myself on a list, and explicitly agree that realtors can contact me for offers, then by all means, spam me with offers. The situation currently is that I did not consent to have my information used.

Times have changed, where identities can be stolen easily. I'm only trying to protect myself or at least let others be aware of what is happening.

P.S. I'm not tarnishing anyone's reputation as this is a fact that has happened. Realtors know the risk when they engage in this business. I'm willing to testify in court with evidence.

TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 11:20 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
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Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(innsean @ Dec 12 2017, 10:46 PM)
Agree with BeanCounter & AskarPerang, it really isn't that bad..
In fact, the opposite also happens ...

whereby motivated owner (nicer word than desperate) are the ones
chasing the specialize agents / spamming agents asking them to rent out the unit for them.

Investors will always welcome agents & of course home owners will always view as spam, so be it
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If you allow your information to be disseminated willingly, sure, no problem. Heck, if there is a list where owners can put their names and explicitly agree to be called for offers, sign me up.

The situation now is that my and all owners' information is being obtained illegally without our consent. This is not only a matter of principle but it is in fact illegal in Malaysia since the PDPA came into effect in 2010.

If we don't make a stand now, when will it stop? How do you know if next time your information is being used to do something illegal? Will you just shrug and say, "So be it. I'll just spend time going to the banks, CTOS, employers, police etc to clear my name." You might be willing to do that, not me.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 12 2017, 11:30 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
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Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(Ckmwpy0370 @ Dec 12 2017, 08:33 PM)
The personal details of some 46.2 million mobile number subscribers in Malaysia are at stake in what is believed to be one of the largest data breaches ever seen in the country.

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017...cam-attacks-an/

TS any comments this or what can you do?
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There should be a class action suit. I'm not sure how it works here but if any law firm willing to do the legwork, it could set a precedent in Malaysia.

A law firm could start by suing the telcos and MCMC. Then force them to testify in court to defend themselves. Then reach a settlement for the victims. Then if the defendants have to pay compensation, the law firm will get fame and most of the fortune, while victims will be left with some scraps.

I'm not affected as I didn't have a mobile number in Malaysia prior to 2015, but my family members are affected.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 13 2017, 03:56 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
1,077 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Dec 13 2017, 11:19 AM)
there is no privacy in Malaysia from the date you were born, period.

gov has all the info, your name, dob, parents, where you stay, what religion and etc. everything is linked to your IC.
gov can use your info to do whatever, including general election.

now who do you want to complain to?
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That is the government.

We are talking about private individuals using your information for commercial gains. Please educate yourself on privacy laws.

I feel sorry for your ignorance.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 13 2017, 03:57 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
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Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(lowya @ Dec 13 2017, 01:22 PM)
wow u just helped them advertised.
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Go ahead and give them your business if you like.
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 13 2017, 04:07 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
1,077 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


Update 13/12/2017: Got a call from Maxis and they said they have suspended the Maxis numbers as the numbers exhibit spam patterns. It's in their usage policy that they can suspend numbers if it's used as spam. That's a small win I guess. But it's their own words, they could have just said it and done nothing about it, and I have no way to know.

Also got a reply from PDP. This time a longer one as other replies before only contained an automated reply. They said that commercial contacts without our consent are not illegal (contrary to the PDPA 2010 Section 7, Notice and Choice Principle), but we have the right to give a written reply to the spammer to stop and delete all our data. Only if it was not complied, then only it is an offence. Well, that's our government folks.

Extract from email

QUOTE
3.            Untuk makluman pihak tuan, emel/ sms/ atau panggilan telefon secara rawak pada kali pertama kepada mana-mana individu tidak dianggap menjadi kesalahan. Tetapi, tuan/ puan perlu menyatakan tidak berminat dan mohon semua maklumat yang ada dan sedia ada dalam milikan Pengguna Data tersebut dihapuskan segera kerana anda tidak mahu data peribadi anda dalam milikan mereka. Penyataan ini perlu bertulis dan direkodkan. Untuk makluman lanjut berkaitan perkara ini tuan/ puan bolehlah melayari www.pdp.gov.my untuk mendapatkan cara terbaik dalam menangani jualan langsung. (ruangan pautan pantas →penerbitan→  How Best Respond To Direct Marketing.



4.            Adalah menjadi kesalahan di bawah Akta 709, selepas perkara (3) telah dinyatakan dan Pengguna Data tersebut mengulanginya pada kali kedua. Sehubungan itu, adalah menjadi prosedur biasa untuk kami meminta pihak pengadu supaya mendapatkan penjelasan bertulis daripada pihak yang berkenaan terlebih dahulu sebelum mengemukakan aduan kepada Pesuruhjaya Perlindungan Data Peribadi.


This post has been edited by kelvinlym: Dec 13 2017, 04:09 PM
TSkelvinlym
post Dec 13 2017, 10:21 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
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Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Dec 13 2017, 09:17 PM)
Is there any different btw gov make gain off yr personal data and private individuals make gain of your personal data?

You tell me you never got spam or try to scam you by email or ur mobile number?

At least these agents are just cari makan....not take advantage of you.

Get a real life please.
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A government's use of our private data is mandated by law to provide us services and to draw up policies. This is to ensure that benefits go to the right people, and public funds are being used at the right place.

A private individual or company's use of our data is for commercial gain, which is to gain profits.

If you can't see the difference, then there's no point for us continuing this topic. You choose what you want to believe, I only educate.

"You tell me you never got spam or try to scam you by email or ur mobile number?"

What does this question have to do with anything? Would you mind elaborating what you mean? If you mean that us getting spam or scams is due to the government leaking our info, who do you think is at fault here? People like you who think it is normal. When no one objects, no one pressuring their representatives, no one reporting to the authorities, no media to highlight this problem, the culprits will just keep on doing it.

It seems like you have accepted it as a norm. Whatever floats your boat. Maybe what I'm highlighting is hitting a little too close to home for you?

I, for one, am trying to do my part to at least protect myself and my data.

At least these agents are just cari makan....not take advantage of you.

Did you even read what you have just written? doh.gif The practice of using my data without my consent for their own benefit, is literally the definition of "to take advantage of".

Get a real life please.

I will, thanks for the wishes.

TSkelvinlym
post Dec 13 2017, 11:18 PM

Yes, that was my car.
******
Senior Member
1,077 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Dec 13 2017, 10:30 PM)
Obviously you never heard of gerrymandering.

Who will you complain to when someone spam yr email or scam you via mobile and/or email?
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Obviously you never heard of gerrymandering.

I hope you didn't hurt yourself coming up with that big word. What does this topic have to do with the manipulation of election boundaries?

Who will you complain to when someone spam yr email or scam you via mobile and/or email?

Read my first post. Oh sorry, I forgot to account for your cognitive abilities (or lack thereof).

 

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