Gold ETF by Affin Hwang Asset Management was listed today.

This is positive development for stock punters. We now can buy Gold like we buy shares, in our CDS account.

Price closed at RM1.74 with 8,271 lots being traded. 1 lot (100 shares) equal to 1 gm of Gold.

Can discuss when good time to buy Gold?

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Dec 6 2017, 10:39 PM

This is great news, wish Silver ETF would also be made available.

I believe money from bitcoin will start to flow to physical assets especially gold soon.

I just found back this thread that I opened 2 years ago.. Forgot I opened it, due to poor response 😆

I hv been holding some of this "stock" a while but end of last year I double my holdings due to what I perceive as higher risks of economic disaster.

I think I want to promote more ppl to look at this, it tracks price of gold, which is now slowly going up again. Globally central banks are cutting interest rates, this causes currency to fall. Ppl are saying there is a currency war going on on top of a trade war. Gov wants their currency to go lower to maintain export competitiveness. In such scenario, gold being the "neutral" currency will naturally go up.

https://www.kitco.com/news/2019-07-17/Gold-...che-Bank.htmlhe

Goldetf is up 16% in 1 year and 11% YTD.

This is more convinient way to buy and sell gold as its in the same Bursa trading platform n transaction is fast, costs is low with no stamp duty.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jul 19 2019, 12:31 PM

Better than hellogold I suppose.

Any fees?

It is just your normal trading fees. Annual management fee is around 0.8% as I have read somewhere before.

Since the IPO closing of 1.74 to current price of 1.945 (19 months), the return is only 11.78%, with most of the gains coming from June 2019 onward. Might not be worth to look at if gold price is going to be volatile.

Pay normal brokerage like a stock.

I suggest use online cash upfront (like Rakuten 0.1%) for lowest transaction costs. Also no stamp duty but watch out for the min brokerage.

Annual management fee is 0.3% and custody fee is 0.2% per anum. So total is 0.5%.The gold is kept in Singapore but the units will appear in your Bursa CDS account.

The stock is 99% invested in real physical gold bars. So performance will track price of gold obviously. it was going nowhere from IPO until end of last year. But with trade war, interest rate easing, fear of crisis, Gold has been moving upwards.

So depend on your future outlook. Strong economic growth and high interest rates are bad for gold. Gold doesn't pay any dividends and interest. Crisis and low interest rates are good for Gold.

But even if you bullish on the economy, I think you should have some gold for "insurance" in case you are wrong.

What I like most is that it's on the same platform as my trading account. When I take profit from a stock I can immediately buy some Gold vice-versa.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jul 19 2019, 02:08 PM

Thank you for your clarification on the annual management fee.

"The stock is 99% invested in real physical gold bars. So performance will track price of gold obviously"
This one I agree. So coming back to the direction of spot gold price. The swing is too wild if we look at the previous 10Yr chart. No doubt that there is a chance to hit one of the up cycles of gold price, but that will be during a time of recession. If we take a look at the current gold price, it is at it's all-time high right now. I believe that the recent surge in gold price is due to China's buying spree since the start of the year.

The questions we need to ask ourselves are, how long can it hold at its current valuation, how long is our big brother China going to sustain their buying spree, and the most fundamental question would be how long will the US keep its interest rate low?

Yes, gold is now at historical highs in MYR terms.Thanks for sharing the chart. A 20 year time frame will show you an even more interesting picture.

But for sake of discussion, let me try to answer ur questions:

Q: How long will it keep its current valuation?

Ans: No idea. There is no comparative industry PE or EPS or a as such. Gold is..just gold. If we can tell exactly, than we can make millions by trading gold futures instead.

Q: How long will big Brother China going to continue its buying spree?

Ans: I think as long as the China-US rivalry persists.. which is going to be a long time. China problem is that they have too much of their money held in US Treasuries. Imagine if all ur money is with ur enemy.. Who is now starting to get aggressive with u. Problem right? They are trying to diversify away gradually, but since we are talking trillions of dollars, they can't pull out quickly without losing money themselves.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/16/china-has-c...two-years.html:

Q: How long will the US keep their interest rate low?

Ans: They have been increasing interest rates for the past 2 years. Early this year, they said enuff increase! Now everyone is expecting the first cut to come end of this month. The expectation is that this is the first cut of many to follow. To answer your question, I would say about 1-2 years.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jul 19 2019, 05:34 PM

the surge of gold are mainly due to the anticipating of recession I suppose. But the volatility is high.
Investing in gold can be act as a hedge because the correlation to main market is low.
But given the uncertainty of current market movement, even gold is not safe anymore.
Its already very high at the mean time, can it breach further?
Nevertheless, we can give it a try for not exceeding 10% of our portfolio, perhaps?

"Volatility is high". High compared to what I may ask?

Compared to FD?
Yes

Compared to Govt bonds?
Yes

Compared to stocks?:
Nope..Gold is much less volatile (and this is a stock exchange section.. So ppl should be used to volatility! ).

If u compare big crashes.. the gold crash in 2012-2013 was 27% down (in RM terms). Compare that to the 56% crash of SnP500 and 40% crash of KLCI in 2008. N of course, can't even compare with individual stock volatility, where possible to drop 30% in one day.

The solution to manage the risk as always is to have a well diversified portfolio n never to put all ur eggs in one basket. The great thing about gold is its low corelation to equities. So it's a good hedge/insurance. I definitely sleep better with my stock portfolio knowing that I have some gold.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jul 20 2019, 12:24 AM

Thank you for sharing your insights, and yes the past 20 years chart did tell a very interesting picture, but I am not going to go that far as we know gold price will never rally up in that way again (it was a huge 400% surge over the period). From where we are, a steady 5% increment in price annually is good enough, but then again we wouldn't know what is going to happen over the next 5 years or so.

US re-election is coming next year, so things might get interesting with the China-US rivalry. If he losses office, well it wouldn't take a long time for the new Government to reverse the damage Trump did with China. So on to your claim that this is going to be a long drawn affair, I'd say we'll let the US voters to decide if they would like to see this rivalry persist.

While I agree that US would have its first rate cut in years, but would this short-term rate cut spur a long-term rally of the gold price? It is highly unlikely as Fed will need to step in once again with a rate hike if inflation rises too rapidly due to cheap credit. So when that happens, gold would become more of a speculative tool rather than a hedging tool.

One downside of this GOLDETF is its very low liquidity. One is "forced" to liquidate it at a cheap price or stick with the stock through its ups and downs. And the fact that is pays no dividends, the only way to earn a decent profit from this ETF is if the price could achieve a compounded growth rate of 5% (which is again, unlikely unless the US is hit with another big recession). As compared to my stocks portfolio, I would be able to sleep better at night as I know that my stocks would still continue giving me dividends for years to come even if the price compressed temporarily.

Wow, 10% of total portfolio? That is a bit too much, isn't it?
Then I would have many sleepless nights afterwards. Haha.

I increase end last year and now a bit more than 10% gold. Up from 2-3% a year ago. Gain of 12% so far. 10% is my standard limit when buying any single stock, but there could be exceptions. I'm a self confessed market timer, so right now waiting for the signs.. 😆

Liquidity and traded volume are two different things. Liquidity for 0828EA is there due to market maker. But volume is not, maybe ppl not aware or don't understand.

N if u want big amounts u can call the fund manager to help. They can bring the liquidity. But what's more cool is that if u own 500000 units, then u can actually exchange your units to get a physical 5kg gold bar 9999.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jul 20 2019, 12:01 PM

I think 5% to 10% is the recommended amount, although I only have less than 1% gold due to StashAway.

how's much is the transaction cost to exchange it to physical gold? and what type of gold? Swiss? Kijang Emas?

I still cannot take that kind of risk to have such a high exposure to gold. Maybe small amount like RM10k, probably is still ok, but to put 10% of my portfolio in gold holdings, not a good idea at this current condition. That would mean sacrificing my stable dividends in exchange for something uncertain.

Im told its nominal if u arrange the pick up in Singapore yourself. The custodian will transfer the gold bar to your name and your shares in Bursa will be canceled.

I hv no idea on the gold manufacturer, but I think it could be from different sources provided it's LBMA certified.

http://www.lbma.org.uk/good-delivery-list

so that means you don't think a financial crisis or a recession is coming?

Most ppl say it's coming ....because it has been almost 10 years.

on the other hand, gold has already appreciated a lot this year.... not sure if I'd acquire more.

Well, I would not speculate if a crisis or recession is coming or not as I am not an economist. So my views of the economical health are not important. But what I am saying is that my defensive portfolio is able to withstand a recession/crisis in the US. Well IF a recession/crisis was to happen, I could still buy gold then and ride with it. But right now with no clearer sign of it, I would not risk my cash earning nothing.

eh, care to explain your defensive portfolio?
can withstand a recession / crisis even without gold?

If you buy it then, wouldn't it be too late? I think buying during recession/crisis may be too late. The price would have gone up by then, no? I think we should buy before others join the bandwagon. (should buy if you're expecting a crisis, if not, then no need)

My portfolio is made up of quality dividend stocks that constantly pay out good dividends. Their businesses are quite resilient to market conditions. During a crisis, their share prices may be affected, but the core business might not be affected a lot. Hence is would be business as usual and these stocks are able to pay me dividends as usual. I earn by holding on to my stocks, not by selling them.

There is still buying opportunity for gold during a crisis, as the price would keep rising. It is not going to stop appreciating as people are still going to keep accumulating gold during a crisis. It is a safer bet to buy gold at the first obvious sign of a crisis. But for now, the sign isn't clear enough to warrant a rush to buy.

Market is generally pretty uncertain now. Having a good chunk of gold has allowed me to be "more brave" going into stocks this year esp in May.

Using football analogy, with my defense looking solid n with good goalkeeper, I can now push more players into the striker and attacking midfielder positions, playing a 4-4-2 formation. Many ppl are playing 10-0-0 now..

That is a good analogy there, and the 10-0-0 would be me
But I wouldn't mind staying 10-0-0 even if market changes for the better, as long as I am still earning my target yield from my portfolio. I would just like to build more passive income right now, with the first target which is to achieve a passive income of at least 50% of my gross salary. At my current age, it is not a good time for me to go aggressive on my portfolio anymore. Time to play defensive on my current holdings and grow it steadily.

U are not 10-0-0 in my books.. maybe 4-6-0 (just guessing). 10-0-0 is like plumberly.. 😆

I consider good boring dividend stocks as my midfielders..sometimes they do score well. Cash, gold and bonds are goalkeeper n defenders n maybe defensive midfielder as well.

Growth n technology stocks, pennies and warrants etc are the strikers.

Oh, in that case well I think as of now I am more of 2-8-0, as 20% is held in cash for any short term opportunity, and 80% in dividend yielding stocks. My cash holdings could be reduced to about 10% once I utilise the other part of it to fund a business start up (wonder if that would be considered high risk).

So yeah, I might consider a little bit in gold (probably RM10k in it) if I can achieve my first hurdle sooner than expected. Until that happens, I would like put everything I have into those boring dividend stocks to hit my target.

By the way, thank you for sharing this. Keep up the good work in updating us here so we can get informed of the latest changes

30% chance of global recession according to Affin

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...ssion/#cxrecs_s

30% is considered low risk, last year MKE predicted a 40% chance of a global recession. Once it hits 60% chance then it is considered risky.

Yup. Let me know when it's 60%.

Oh my, I hope we would not see that too soon

Gold is up again..good chance it will hit RM200/gm this week...as the world waits for China retaliation.

Imagine.. Back in 1997 it was RM30/gm. No dividends pun OK like this.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 5 2019, 01:03 PM

Gold rally continues..n has touched USD1.5k/ounce.

Goldetf last traded at RM2.04, with NAV of RM2.033.

YTD return is 17.14%..

20% can run liao

during recession people will buy gold or sell gold ? isn't more people will sell gold for money to sustain their life and debts payment ? or rich people and country banker will buy more gold until currency devalued stop ?

I would not buy gold simply because as an individual retail investor

-during volatility or bear market, i want to be in cash liquid position to be able to buy deals I like...I am still buying selectively
-monies invested in gold could be well spent on undervalued or potential growth stocks which give higher returns, mid or long term
-gold goes down when market is up
-gold is just a temporary safe haven
-panic buying of gold could cause overpricing, gold is a commodity with 'no intrinsic value' which depends on demands. Correction happens when overprice.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed...ock_code=0828EA

Please put this link fot easier reference

NET ASSET VALUE / INDICATIVE OPTIMUM PORTFOLIO VALUE
TRADEPLUS SHARIAH GOLD TRACKER

Type Announcement
Subject NET ASSET VALUE / INDICATIVE OPTIMUM PORTFOLIO VALUE
Description Tradeplus Shariah Gold Tracker - Valuation Point as at 08 August 2019
Fund: Tradeplus Shariah Gold Tracker

NAV per unit (RM): 2.0417

Units in circulation (units): 21,600,000

Manager's Fee (% p.a): 0.30

Trustee Fee (% p.a): 0.06

License fee (% p.a.): 0.0075

Need to pay fees???

It's a fund structure. The fund buys physical gold bars which are kept in Singapore. 99% of the fund is in gold, the other 1% is cash.

So yes, the fund charges a fee, but you don't pay it directly. Its taken out from the fund.

What you pay is brokerage to the IB/broker, just like u buy a stock.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 9 2019, 01:23 PM

The big money now buying Gold are central banks and financial institutions.

When the world got negative interest rates, then Gold is seen as an alternative.

1. The reason I like this ETF is that it is very easy for me to switch between gold to stocks.So if suddenly Maybank limit down, it's just 2 clicks, sell gold buy Maybank. Its much faster than transferring cash from a bank account to the broking account.

2. I regard Gold as the cash portion of my portfolio. I have cash MYR, cash USD and cash Gold. Both USD and Gold has outperformed KLCI year to date. I also have bonds, dividend stocks, growth stocks. This is called diversification. It's not a choice between 100% Gold vs stocks.

3. I don't agree a Gold is a temporary safe heaven. Gold is insurance when bad things happen to the economy. N bad things can last a long time (just ask the Venuezelans). Now, of course, when the economy is wonderful then holding gold will not be profitable, but in that situation, there are many things that can make u money.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 9 2019, 02:08 PM

Yes, I do know that gold is trending right now but this is not for everyone to invest especially if you are new to the market. I'm speaking for myself as an individual retail investor who just started off just about slightly over 1 year in the market. Nothing for me to hedge or insure as I don't think i buy large enough equities to cause a dent in my small portfolio spread thinly over SG, US and HK. However, I might consider holding some gold (10% max) if my holding is large enough once my investment seedings grow in future... if it happens la

How you buy usd???

Keep physical usd money note???

Few ways one can buy and hold USD:

1. Buy physical USD cash and keep (the most common way)
2. Open a foreign currency deposit account (many banks do offer this)
3. Forex trading platforms (usually for short term trading based on contract)

Which method you use??
Which one best?


Open a foreign currency deposit account at bank,can give myr and they change to usd???

U can open a multicurrency current or FD account. Many banks offer this. N yes deposit in RM n they convert.

I have no foreign currency deposit account, I am only keeping some USD in physical cash for now as my holding of USD is very small. I am increasing my holdings in SGD though.

How much you can earn if you change to sgd??

I do not quite understand your question. But if you are asking me how much interest am I receiving on SGD, I can tell you it is very low at 1.5% only. But the reason I am transferring my money to SG apart from currency hedging is to invest my money in SG. So I don't mind the low interest rate as it only acts as a intermediary account.

Means you invest sg stock market???

Why not usd?

I can only open a Sg account easily without a employment permit, whereas it is impossible for me to open a US account without working there. So I chose Sg, and another factor is due to its close proximity to Malaysia, I can get to "see" my money easier.

What bank???
But when you open?
They will ask many question wor

All the info you need is in here https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1440794 and any further questions regarding the Sg bank account should be posted there. This is GOLDETF thread and any other discussion that deviates from the topic should end right here.

Golld has been pretty stable, inching up. I guess now waiting to see if China will send the People Liberation Army to the streets of HK.. N if that happens, for sure Gold will shoot up again.

In the meantime, I found something interesting at the fund managers website that I thought I share.

https://www.tradeplus.com.my/gold-tracker.html

If u go to the download section, there is a gold bar list you can download. U can check the manufacturer. That's the gold bars that the fund holds on your behalf as an investor. Remember that 1 unit equal to 0.01gm gold and a tiny bit of cash.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 15 2019, 02:17 PM

Congrats on your gold ETF appreciation. Guess you have made quite a decent profit by now.

Also thank you for sharing the findings. It looks like their weightage of holdings in physical gold is 101.36% of their units in circulation at the moment. Any idea if they are still accumulating more physical gold?

Nice 20% gain. Letting the profits run for a while. I see several risk events in the next 1-2 months that could still support gold price.

I had 10% gold in my portfolio mid this year. This means 2% unrealized capital gain total portfolio wise..This is about neutralize the unrealized capital loss in the equities portion of the portfolio.

On the goldetf, the gold bar accumulation will depend on demand for the ETF. If there is more demand to buy, then they will buy gold bars and create more shares. If investors take profit and sell back, then they buy back the shares, sell the gold bars and cancel the shares. It's a continuous process.

The thing here is the transparency that the ETF is 100% backed with actual physical gold, which is held in trust for investors. That's a great safety there. U won't see such a list in Maybank Gia or public gold. The banks never claim that their gold accounts are 100% backed. If it's not 100% physical backed then there is still a counterparty risk.

Taken from Maybank's website:

Better Protection: Investments in Maybank Gold Investment Account are fully backed by physical gold deposited in Produits Artistiques Metaux Precieux (PAMP S.A)

Who says they are not backed? I don't invest in gold but I would trust Maybank more than this ETF. In fact, Maybank once allowed you to withdraw physical gold. However, they discontinued it (probably costly to entertain customers withdrawing and putting in physical gold) and now push their Kijang Emas as physical gold instead.

But then again this ETF is cheaper to trade even if it's all on paper.

It depends on the level of assurance you need I guess. Most people say you're not really buying gold unless you are buying physical gold that can be kept in safe deposit box.

There have been cases whereby the companies offering gold investment schemes go bankrupt even they claim to be gold backed etc. This is because there really is nothing to back the investment and it's just all on paper. There was no physical gold involved even they stated it. What investors did? They sued. But not like they can get their money back anyway since there really is nothing in the company.

In Affin case, they don't just claim physical backing. They regularly publish their gold bars list incl make, weigh, quality. N u can compare the list with fund size to be assured its 100% physical backed. So that u know u can wiithdraw the gold. I'm sure being a regulated entity, this list will be audited regularly.

N don't even compare this with the Swiss gold types. Affin Asset is a reputable licensed fund manager. The goldetf is structured like a unit trust and is approved by the SC and Bursa Malaysia. So what they publish would hv been double triple checked to be true.

Gold very strong

Hit RM2.12.. That's 21+% return YTD

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 26 2019, 12:18 PM

Wow..

Welcome to the forum and thanks for bringing this gold product to KLSE.

Iol..I don't work for Affin Hwang. but u can PM if u think there are good opportunities there .. Haha.. .

I'm the type that study as much as possible when I invest into something. And I also like to Buy Malaysia (Not Muslim) First.. I also think Gold is going to be more important in the future. So that's why I promote..

I think u can also promote ur ETF at the gold thread in the main financial forum here.. I think there are more readers there than here.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3350149

N I hope Affin can launch a 2x Goldetf.. That would be fun.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Sep 10 2019, 11:27 PM

Sould give out Gold coins or a winter holiday trip to China instead.. smartphones meeh..

When is the 2x gold coming out?

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Nov 8 2019, 02:47 PM

Interesting topic and I'm new here.... For now I only invested in stashaway.... (where a small portion of my portfolio allocated at gold commodities).... I noticed the gold price is going down recently, and I plan to invest some gold when it's price dropped to the best rate to buy in....

Have read about the HelloGold and it is cool for its boost top up feature😁..... Is there any other cool platform (with low fees) to invest in gold?

Thanks in advance

Im my own Stashaway.. 😆

I use goldetf as part of my all weather portfolio approach (search Ray Dalio all weather portfolio) with a dynamic allocation model like Stashaway. Haha.. Sounds so canggih one..

As for Hellogold I guess is ok for small amounts, like RM10-100 monthly.. But too costly once u get to more serious money.

Thanks for the advice mate.... Now I'm doing dca rm 100 every week on stashaway

how do you guys buy this etf? need to call every time when want to purchase?

Yes for some brokers like Rakuten. M Securities no need.

That's dumb if have to call when have enough $ in Rakuten account. Should be able to place the trade ownself in the apps

Gold up so strong nowadays. MYR also weakeng. This virus really throw a curveball to my predictions.

Gold etf now at RM2. 23. That's 9% return this year only.

Just to update this thread.. Goldetf is now up 35% for 1 year.

Recession is now here.. U buy gold?

Got in 01012020 till now TD +16%

Recession was 3 weeks ago; Now it is Depression

Does this GOLDETF is as cold as MyETF-MMID and MyETF-US50?

Different fund manager. But need more Malaysian investors to use it for it to be less cold.

So this GOLDETF is hot?

I don't know how u measure Hot or Cold.. But if by traded volume I say it's barely air suam.

But more important is liquidity, and I checked the bid ask spread just now there are 100k units at ask of 2.375 and bid of 2.35 with some smaller orders in between. I have done 50k trades for this counter no problem.

Thinking of buying goldetf

Wahed MY Gold portfolio is investing into this Gold ETF.
Wondering if which option would be better?

1. Invest directly from trading platform
2. Invest via Wahed MY

It's basically Wahed costs vs a broker costs (Itrade, Mplus etc).

Wahed is 0.75% of the asset size per annum. Broker you pay brokerage, clearing fee (stamp duty is exempted) per buy and per sale transaction.

If u plan to buy small values (say RM1k regularly) maybe Wahed is advantage. Bigger amounts I think broker is more advantage (cash account).

I use broker coz prefer to see it with my other stock investments. So I'm mindful of broker transaction costs.

Gold breached USD1800 per oz.

The more govts print money and gets into bigger debts, the higher gold will go up.

This Goldetf is now up 21% YTD.

Good day boss,
So that means the prices of Gold will keep hiking, and it is still good time to buy Gold?
What do you think about buying Gold on HelloGold APP?

Hellogold fees are quite high. Their target market are people who want to invest small amounts like RM100, RM200 where there aren't cheaper options. Investing bigger amount is better to use Goldetf.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jul 11 2020, 11:56 PM

Hello boss,
Good evening. Thank you for sharing your insights, I shall start to study Goldetf then.

I just read through the fund information of this gold etf.

May I know do they charge you the quarterly licence fee?

You don't pay this directly. It's paid by the fund manager and will be part of the management expense ratio of the ETF.

Btw if u are using Rakuten, they block this ETF and you have to call them first when you want to buy. That's irritating.

I got this error message from iTrade:

1472 ATP - This counter (Stock No - 0828EA) has been suspended. The status of counter is 'Suspend Buy'

What does it mean?

For itrade, you need to call them first. They will check your funds then open for you to buy. Sell is like normal.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 5 2020, 02:23 PM

What does it mean by "check your funds"?

You must have free cash in your account when you buy. This is a shariah rule to buy physical gold. Free cash is not the same as a trading limit. Basically, the system can't auto check. So u call them up, they check and if you have free cash then only they allow you to key in online.

Free cash in where?
In the trust?

Yes

But my trust got money inside.
Their system unable to validate that?

They cannot.I use itrade to buy this too.

Btw if this is first time to buy etf on bursa, there is a RM150 TnG r-wallet cash back.

https://www.bursamarketplace.com/etf-cashback/

Sadly I don't qualify since only for new investors.

Noted. I'll give a call to CS tomorrow.

Thanks for the tips!