My vote is for Christiano Ronaldo and I think it's really obvious why. He has matured so much as a player and has single handedly won games for Man Utd. Your strikers have not been prolific this season and Ronaldo has picked up the slack. I also think that Paul Scholes deserves a mention after returning from injury. He's looked his old self again though I think his tackling has gotten even worse

Carra definitely deserves to be nominated, even if it's in place of Stevie G. He has been a model of consistency since being moved to centreback. I disagree with the suggestion that isn't enough to get you nominated. How does a defender perform the spectacular? By scoring goals are Terry does? Then the voting would be biased towards strikers and midfielder, perhaps it is. Carra had made dozens of timely interventions or last ditch tackles playing behind what many consider an average Liverpool team. Terry is surrounded by a team of superstars. While I agree with Terry being nominated, I disagree that Carra's contributions have been of less significance.

I still have to say I find it appalling that Jamie Carragher was excluded. You speak of the back four at Chelsea or Man Utd. Defending is a team effort, with even the strikers often dropping back to support the defence. Both Man Utd and Chelsea are top teams at the moment and they have conceded the least amount of goals in the league. Jamie Carragher on the other hand plays in an average Liverpool side and along with Daniel Agger, has contributed greatly to keeping our defensive record comparable to that of Chelsea and Man Utd. Why then was he not selected? I just think that as in the case of Steven Gerrard's selection, it's the England syndrome of choosing reputation over current form. Put John Terry in Watford and see if he gets nominated.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think Carragher is much more important to Liverpool than Vidic is to Man Utd. Even with him out of the side, you are getting positive results. Take Carra out of Liverpool and our defence will be in shambles. We're just lucky he's been ever present since Rafa took over.

Well this discussion stems from the fact that Carragher was excluded from the nominations. I'm not going to be drawn into a debate over who is better because it's obvious that there will be some biasness involved. I've said before that defending is a team effort and a teams good defensive record should not only be attributed to it's defenders. I do watch Man Utd games (though obviously not as many as yourself) and I do realise that Vidic is a good defender. You can't argue though that you've been getting decent results even with him out, which emphasises my point on defending being a team effort. Carragher on the other hand plays in a very average team that does not defend as well as Man Utd. Carra and Agger are as important to us as Terry and Carvalho are to Chelsea. It's no coincidence that Chelsea struggled without the pair of them in defence. The same will happen with Liverpool if Carra or Agger were left out simply because we do not have as good a team as Man Utd. It is therefore my contention that Carra is a key figure in the team because we would not get the positive results you've been getting without him in the team.

The votings to me smell of biasness towards the bigger more glamorous teams. Ask any Man City fan and they'll tell you how important Richard Dunne is to them. Sadly he plays for a less successful team that has struggled and are leaking goals. Sol Campbell and Lindvoy Primus were instrumental for Pompey earlier in the season when they were near the top of the Premiership. Focus however is always given to players who are in the lime light. It is just my opinion that these nominations sometimes mean as much as the FIFA rankings. England are currently ranked 8th in the world. Go figure. It's sad that good players in average teams aren't given as much recognition as they deserve. Reading are a team that has played beyond expectations and yet, they are not given any recognition for it. Where are the likes of Sidwell and Lita? Any mention of Steve Coppell?

It is but both players and fans can be influenced by the media and reputation. What has Steven Gerrard done this season to be in the team? He got in by reputation. I'm not knocking Stevie G but the players himself has admitted he's not been at this best this season and is just now getting there.

The nominations were indeed made by players which is why I doubt the credibility even more. Who can argue with the fact that Reading have had an amazing season? Yet they don't have a single player mentioned in that list. Why? Just because they aren't challenging for the Premiership? The fact is they have played beyond expectations whilst everyone had already expected the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal to be exactly where they are.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 24 2007, 03:43 PM

Have you actually seen Carragher play? He is not the most talented of defenders granted, but makes up for it with heart and determination. Over the past 3 seasons, he has had to mark Europe's top marksmen and most of the time, he's come up on top. What does scoring goals during set-pieces have to do with defending anyway? A defender should be picked first and foremost on his ability to defend. I mean we don't pick strikers based on their ability to defend. As it is Carra is often overlooked in the England squad and I suppose Liverpool fans should have expected the same to happen here.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 24 2007, 03:48 PM

Well this is where we have to agree to disagree. If you say that Rio and Vidic have been in a different class, then so has Carra. We have conceded 22 goals to your 24 this season and much of it has been down to the class of Carra (Agger's emergence has helped our course). Reina has kept 55 clean sheets in his first 100 appearances for the club, and much of it is down to Carra. A superb defender in an average team (and no one can argue that we are just an average side without him or Stevie in it). We've conceded less goal but are only in the position we are in now because we have scored way less.

There is no point in taking this argument any further. Your position in the league is also greatly attributed to the fact that you have scored 20 goal more than us. Ronaldo's contribution alone is comparative to the total tally of all our strikers.

For a player who isn't even a starter for his national team, Carra has outplayed many top strikers who do start for their national sides. Yes he may be out-muscled or out-paced every now and then but that comes down to genetics. Not may defenders can expect to out-muscle Drogba or beat Henry in terms of pace. Carra is not the most technically gifted player which makes it all the more amazing that he plays so well. He makes up for it with heart, passion, commitment and tenacity. While many players of today attend parties and are more concerned with getting their faces on magazines and newspapers, Carra often stays in his hotel room, watching tapes on football when on his travels. He is the consummate professional, preferring to work on his game, spend time with his family and avoid the Hollywood life. Sadly, these things are not taken into consideration during award nominations.

On a personal note, I could care less if Titus Bramble was nominated in place of Carra. I do however feel sorry for Carra and that he is always overlooked. What matters to me is that he continues to marshal the Liverpool rearguard until late in his career. I would not swap him for any defender in the world because though I believe there are those who are more talented, I don' think there is any that is more dedicated to the team and the sport. Heart over talent for me.



Anyone who remembers Istanbul will remember the moment we held our breaths when Carra went down on his back, grimacing in pain. Despite playing in pain, he had enough heart to play on and was called upon to make vital interceptions at full stretch.

Well that's like saying there is no point in talking about a match after it's over but yet we do it. We each like to give our analysis on the situation and justify certain things that happened.

Which is why I said there really is no more point in arguing. As fans of our respective clubs, we each would like to see our players in that team and we each have reasons to justify their selections. Terry has been amazing and I'm just as surprised to see both Rio and Vidic selected ahead of him. There is no doubting his importance in your defence.

Of course they deserved to be nominated. Will this be a precedent of things to come then? Will the next Premiership champions have 8 players in the team of the year again? These nominations were indeed made by players which is why I think they are flawed. It's obviously easier for a player in a big team to get noticed, and it's harder to play them especially when they are supported by other good players. I asked before if someone like Rio Ferdinand would have been nominated had he played for Watford instead? It's a real subjective question but I'm certain it won't be as clear cut as it is now.

That's where you're wrong mate. Carra has always been a regular in the team since making his debut as a defensive midfielder. When Henchoz and Hyypia were playing, Carra played at rightback and then leftback when Markus Babbel was signed. In short, he has always been a Liverpool regular.



Player rotation only works if you already have your team playing a particular brand of football. As it is Rafa is still bringing in players to build a team of his liking so each year we have players who have to learn to fit into the system. We aren't just talking about 1 or 2 players a season here. Ferguson himself took what? 7 years to win his first league title? Since then, Man Utd have been playing a particular brand of football and players that come in, fit right into the system. I have seen progression in Liverpool's style of play but I do not think we are playing to Rafa's expectations yet. Judging by some of the games I've seen, I bloody hope not. When Rafa took over at Valencia, he inherited a good team and rotation was easy because he already had a group of players that had played together for sometime. If you look at Liverpool today, you can easily spot 4 or 5 starters who have just come into the team.

I actually did praise Bouazza in a previous post. What's wrong with performing well in a crap team. Should players from only the top sides be nominated then?

Points to note:

1) It's easier to look good when you are supported by good players or playing in a good team. It's more difficult for example to score 30 in a season when you are supported by mediocre players. Half of Andy Johnson's goals were bloody penalties anyway.

2) You said, "if your team were relegated, no one would notice you". So the votes are biased then.


This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 28 2007, 11:04 AM

Huh??? Football is a team sport, it's not about individuals. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink was top scorer in Spain for Atletico Madrid and this team were still relegated. So he should not be awarded the Golden Boot then because his efforts were not good enough to save his club from relegation?

Gerard Houllier acquired Stephen Henchoz from Blackburn the year after they were relegated, and he and Sami Hyypia ensured Liverpool had the meanest defence in the league at the time.

Please explain to me why a good player in a poor team doesn't deserve to be nominated. Isn't that discrimination?

While I agree it takes a lot of bottle, but it's just a matter of picking a spot and going for it, and seeing if the keepers guesses right. It's much easier to score a penalty than a goal from open play where there are defenders in front of the keeper. If MADReaLJL is suggesting that it's easier to score 30 goals from open play as it is from the penalty spot, then I'd have to disagree.

You're right mate, your players are world class and ours are shite.

Exactly, him and Agger even had the gall to concede 27 bloody goals in the Premiership, the cunts. It's no wonder they weren't mentioned in the Premiership Team of the Year. Reina's bloody useless as well, only 55 clean sheets in 100 games??? Sell him I say

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 15 2007, 04:32 PM

Yeah what to do? Reality bites. Wish our players were more like yours.

I don't know about you mate, but I pick my battles. Some just aren't worth fighting. Have you ever tried talking to a wall? Conserve your energy

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 16 2007, 08:44 AM

Dude, can you help compile a list of the lowyat reds that are going for the party? I will then add it to the list in our email community. Will reserve a table for all those in lowyat, just need the no of people attending. Thanks mate.

I think you've misunderstood him. He means that being a Liverpool fan, his heart is obviously with Stevie G but logic would dictate that Ronaldo is the obvious choice. He's not being sore or bitter, he's embracing reality.