KUALA LUMPUR, Oct 16 ― The High Court today rejected a Sabah church's bid to find out why the government banned the word “Allah” in non-Muslims' publications, saying such government information is classified under the Official Secrets Act (OSA) 1972.
Lawyer Annou Xavier, who represented the Sidang Injil Borneo (SIB) Sabah church, confirmed that the court had dismissed his client's application for discovery of documents.
“One of the reasons is because it is classified as Official Secrets Act (OSA), so the government has classified it as OSA and the document will not be released,” he told reporters after the decision was delivered in chambers by High Court judge Datuk Nor Bee Ariffin.
“The other reason is because the court finds it is not necessary for the documents to be disclosed under judicial review application,” he added.
Senior federal counsel Shamsul Bolhassan said the judge felt the existing evidence already submitted to the court was adequate for it to decide on the church's lawsuit against the government and Home Ministry, also noting that it felt it is for the government to declassify such information.
“The court said that it is not in a position to ask us to reveal it because it is only for the maker to declassify, not for the court,” he told reporters.
“But in this case it is only issue of discovery, so the court feels that discovery in judicial review - these documents are not necessary. You can go by way of the evidence given as well as the documents which has been tendered, that is sufficient for the court to decide,” he added.
The SIB church had last month sought two sets of documents, including documents such as letters and meetings minutes containing the reasons for the government’s 1986 ban of the word “Allah” in non-Muslim publications; documents showing confusion among Malaysians or misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians over the use of the word “Allah” in Bahasa Malaysia Christian publications; or showing threats to public order due to non-Muslims’ use of the term.
The second set of documents sought was for those where the government had granted approval to import, publish, produce, distribute or own any Christian publications with the word “Allah”.
Last month, the SIB church's lead counsel Lim Heng Seng asked the courts to order the government to disclose documents showing why it had banned non-Muslims from using the Arabic word “Allah” in their publications, noting that the Home Ministry had cited its original ban in a 1986 government circular after its 2007 seizure of SIB Sabah’s Christian education materials.
Lim had argued that the initial 1986 ban was the “root” behind recurring problems faced by local Bahasa Malaysia-speaking Christians who have been using the word “Allah” for hundreds of years, also telling the court then there was no evidence that local Christians' use of the word “Allah” had caused public disorder.
SIB had also said the documents will be necessary to help the court decide if the government's prohibition of the use of the word “Allah” in non-Muslim publications was constitutional.
Shamsul had last month argued that the documents sought by SIB Sabah cannot be disclosed as they fall under the OSA.
Shamsul had also described the church’s application for document disclosure by the government as a “fishing expedition”, arguing that it was not relevant when it was not shown that the government’s evidence was inaccurate or false.
The court case was sparked off by the August 15, 2007 seizure of SIB Sabah’s Sunday school materials at the Low Cost Carrier Terminal airport in Sepang, with the education materials for Christian children then returned on January 28, 2008 under the condition that the front page would be stamped with a “cross” sign and the words “ Christian publication”.
SIB Sabah and its president Rev Datuk Jerry Dusing had on December 10, 2007 filed for judicial review against the Home Ministry and government, but the case involving the former’s constitutional rights has yet to be heard on its merits.
This case will come up for case management on November 1.
inb4 sape c4 altantuya? : OSA sape songlap 1mdb? : OSA duit cincin big ma? : OSA sape makan telur penyu? : OSA apasal maslan dengan jamal gile sangak? : OSA gangster mana tumbok orang? : OSA mana duit condo kerbau? : OSA
inb4 sape c4 altantuya? : OSA sape songlap 1mdb? : OSA duit cincin big ma? : OSA sape makan telur penyu? : OSA apasal maslan dengan jamal gile sangak? : OSA gangster mana tumbok orang? : OSA mana duit condo kerbau? : OSA sapa bingding? :OSA
now i realise i cant use english name while i am chinese. american and european will confuse
they already are liao
anyway, the thing is, my interpretation of my god is different from yours. When i said something that involve using the word "god", i refer to my god. You on the other hand might interpret that word as your god, which is by your definition of your god. Anyways, back to the topic, the reason why cant use "Allah" by christians is just not convincing at all.
but just because you easily get confuse, doesn't mean you can stop someone from doing their stuff
put example, i under nothing about physic, their formula makes me misunderstood that whoever using it can summon a demon
hence is it justified for me to stop everyone from physic?
Not really, because physics is a fact, and logic, and can be proven mathematically. God is about faith on something that you cannot prove. Hence, physics is supposed to be applied to everything in the universe, religion on the other hand, doesnt.
Allah literally means The God. god in arabic is illah and is a common noun. so they added Al which means the. so, Al-illah = The God, becomes a proper noun.
God in Aramaic is Elaha..
but in merehsia case, mayb got ppl mudah confuse n its in our culture, so better dont use la..
Allah literally means The God. god in arabic is illah and is a common noun. so they added Al which means the. so, Al-illah = The God, becomes a proper noun.
God in Aramaic is Elaha..
but in merehsia case, mayb got ppl mudah confuse n its in our culture, so better dont use la..
exactly, so to be safe, just use a generic word "God" instead.
TS, its not only Allah cannot be used. Bahasa Malaysia, the national language of Malaysia, also cannot be used in churches.
How like that?
Another thing, ktards here always come and flame me when I defend Indonesia and say that Indonesia is more racist-balik-balik 1998, balik-balik Ahok.
But guess what? In Indonesia, the language used in church is Bahasa Indonesia. My Indonesian church network's members get big surprises when I tell them that, in Malaysia, only Muslims can use national language.
And no, unlike Malaysia, Christians there are not Chinese only or non-Bumi, there, "Malays" whether it is Javanese, Malay or Sundanese are also allowed to be Christians. Their law allows it.
Not really, because physics is a fact, and logic, and can be proven mathematically. God is about faith on something that you cannot prove. Hence, physics is supposed to be applied to everything in the universe, religion on the other hand, doesnt.
Joined: Mar 2005
From: Seri Kembangan / Kota Bharu
QUOTE(jumpercable @ Oct 16 2017, 02:24 PM)
TS, its not only Allah cannot be used. Bahasa Malaysia, the national language of Malaysia, also cannot be used in churches.
How like that?
Another thing, ktards here always come and flame me when I defend Indonesia and say that Indonesia is more racist-balik-balik 1998, balik-balik Ahok.
But guess what? In Indonesia, the language used in church is Bahasa Indonesia. My Indonesian church network's members get big surprises when I tell them that, in Malaysia, only Muslims can use national language.
And no, unlike Malaysia, Christians there are not Chinese only or non-Bumi, there, "Malays" whether it is Javanese, Malay or Sundanese are also allowed to be Christians. Their law allows it.
And you know what, I just found out recently that Muslim in Indonesia is allowed to convert out
anyway, the thing is, my interpretation of my god is different from yours. When i said something that involve using the word "god", i refer to my god. You on the other hand might interpret that word as your god, which is by your definition of your god. Anyways, back to the topic, the reason why cant use "Allah" by christians is just not convincing at all.
you sendiri also confuse to define a = a and b = b. now you try to make a = b while c = a.
Frankly Christians should not be using Allah since Muslims use it exclusively for their god. Why cant they just use Tuhan. Why wanna intrude in other ppls religion. Tuhan is good enough........
And you know what, I just found out recently that Muslim in Indonesia is allowed to convert out
their version on islam is more moderate then ours
And another thing that is more important; they have a registration system known as Kartu Keluarga, that goes all the way up to the provincial government.
Whatever religion they want to change to (whether convert in and out of Muslim), they have to update in the Kartu Keluarga and notify their family.
That means there is no cases of body snatching-to-get-inheritance or parent converting the child without the other parent's approval.
Of course, you cannot just convert out of Islam to be atheist or non of the 7 recognized religions.
You must have a religion that is one of the 7 recognized religions.
SOS: I had a Muslim Indonesian GF before. (Yeah she was damn gooding in bed, and dress like non-muslim in Malaysia, no tudung) More expert drinker than me also.
Frankly Christians should not be using Allah since Muslims use it exclusively for their god. Why cant they just use Tuhan. Why wanna intrude in other ppls religion. Tuhan is good enough........
Allah is a legit word for tuhan in a number of native languages in sarawak and sabah. Why should these native races change their word vocab just to accomodate bigots in semenanjung?
"Allah" actually is a name. Name of Islam's god. Correct me if Im wrong..But honestly speaking, you have to be a real dumb if you can get confuse just by the name since Malaysian are being thought since a small kid that we are berbilang bangsa and agama in Malaysia
"Allah" actually is a name. Name of Islam's god. Correct me if Im wrong..But honestly speaking, you have to be a real dumb if you can get confuse just by the name since Malaysian are being thought since a small kid that we are berbilang bangsa and agama in Malaysia
U r wrong. How can an all powerful, maha besar being have a name...? It would b disrespectful to even know that name...
Allah is a legit word for tuhan in a number of native languages in sarawak and sabah. Why should these native races change their word vocab just to accomodate bigots in semenanjung?
Legit or not why should Christians insist on using Allah when Muslims use it exclusively to pray and refer to their god? Why cant they just use tuhan? Tuhan is a generic term right
Legit or not why should Christians insist on using Allah when Muslims use it exclusively to pray and refer to their god? Why cant they just use tuhan? Tuhan is a generic term right
No. For Christians, allah is generic common noun for god.
Legit or not why should Christians insist on using Allah when Muslims use it exclusively to pray and refer to their god? Why cant they just use tuhan? Tuhan is a generic term right
Christian Bible in BM/Iban language here in Sarawak refers to God as Allah as well. so its not exclusive.
???Since when Christian want to claim Allah as our God?
Christianity came first in timeline history. Islam came later.
Allah is just Arabic word for God and has been used by even by Christian before Islam. Elohim, the God word for Hebrew is also related to Arabic word Allah.
Allah is just Arabic word for God and has been used by even by Christian before Islam. Elohim, the God Hebrew word for Hebrew God is also related to Arabic word Allah.
Allah is just Arabic word for God and has been used by even by Christian before Islam. Elohim, the God word for Hebrew is also related to Arabic word Allah.
I think the problem with the moslem's argument is that they believe Islam is the final revelation of God and hence because of that, it precede Christianity and Judaism in timeline history. So they think in that mindset Islam came first. We are the one trying to claim according to their view.
This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 16 2017, 03:57 PM
I can't wait for a change of govt and declassify those OSA, give us a big laugh at their reason.
Kerbau manipulated minister to buy condo, kerbau show extreme intelligence, but in the end kerbau dikorbankan sebagai scapegoat, tapi scapegoat itu kambing bukan kerbau, konpius suda, kasi OSA saja.
???Since when Christian want to claim Allah as our God?
Christianity came first in timeline history. Islam came later.
Brother, relax maybe i was wrong but I think Im not saying Christian want to claim Allah as their God
but i said something like, claim a "Allah"word to be use or referring or replacing God/Tuhan in daily use or in translated bible ... it was raised by Christianity in Malaysia, am I correct?
so i just questioning why others dont want to claim Allah word as daily use or holy book like an example Allah Murugan(Lord or Dewa Murugan that Hindu will celebrate Deepavali this Wednesday) ?
yes you are right because as per Islam Jesus(that referring to Prophet Isa in Islam) was a prophet Allah, where Prophet Isa received a Holy Book Injil(Gospel) from Allah as continuation of Holy Book Taurat(Torah) that was received by Prophet Musa(Moses) earlier ... the continuation and the complete Holy Book (Al-Quran) received by Prophet Muhammad where complete Islam was teach or spread during that time and there is no versioning and translation...
Back in the 80s, there was a big hoo-ha about Malays being converted to Christianity in large numbers using a tactic called contextualisation. The evangelist would gain the trust of his targets by mimicking Islamic practices and using Islamic phrases. People like Mat Sabu, Yusof Rawa and Khalid Samad we're claiming that tens of thousands of Malays had been converted.
The government at the time kinda swept the whole thing under the carpet by saying it was an isolated incident blaming everything on one person called Philip Cheong who had converted a few Malays this way, and PAS for blowing it out of proportion. But many states still introduced the ban anyway, which on the face of it seems a bit over the top if it was only a few people.
It's all there in the Ops Lalang white paper if you care to read it.
I can't wait for a change of govt and declassify those OSA, give us a big laugh at their reason.
Kerbau manipulated minister to buy condo, kerbau show extreme intelligence, but in the end kerbau dikorbankan sebagai scapegoat, tapi scapegoat itu kambing bukan kerbau, konpius suda, kasi OSA saja.
In year 2050, Earth Prince students can withdraw money from banks by writing plotek on a piece of paper and students can wing any exam questions with a simple word plotek (answer P)
Back in the 80s, there was a big hoo-ha about Malays being converted to Christianity in large numbers using a tactic called contextualisation. The evangelist would gain the trust of his targets by mimicking Islamic practices and using Islamic phrases. People like Mat Sabu, Yusof Rawa and Khalid Samad we're claiming that tens of thousands of Malays had been converted.
The government at the time kinda swept the whole thing under the carpet by saying it was an isolated incident blaming everything on one person called Philip Cheong who had converted a few Malays this way, and PAS for blowing it out of proportion. But many states still introduced the ban anyway, which on the face of it seems a bit over the top if it was only a few people.
It's all there in the Ops Lalang white paper if you care to read it.
In year 2050, Earth Prince students can withdraw money from banks by writing plotek on a piece of paper and students can wing any exam questions with a simple word plotek (answer P)
The Christian context of using Allah is not the same as the Muslim's context of using it. For Christians they just use it as a title for God as used by Arab Christians for hundreds of years and also by the East Malaysians even before the formation of Malaysia. It is not used by ALL Christians in Malaysia but just those from the East Malaysia who are Malay speaking or those who use BM exclusively like the Orang Asli. The reason Malay speaking Christians use Allah just as a title and not as a personal name for God because the God of the Bible already has a personal name - Yahweh. That is His name forever as is written in Exodus 3:15 which means the great I AM. That is His personal name. This Yahweh has NOTHING to do with the Allah of the Koran. Allah is not a title but the personal name of the god of the Koran which incidentally pre-existed Islam. There are too many theological differences between the God of the Bible and the god of the Koran. For starters the God of the Bible loves the Jews and the nation of Israel but the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible has a Son and the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible is a Father to the nation of Israel and to all people in general but the god of the Koran is a father to none. The highest relationship between a Muslim and Allah is that of a Master - Slave.
Christians know that when they call their God in the BM language they are only referring to the God of the Bible only and NEVER to the Allah of the Koran. They only use the word as a title and not as a personal name.
Type so long Oso no one read de la. The locals will continue to use that word in their mass.
The Christian context of using Allah is not the same as the Muslim's context of using it. For Christians they just use it as a title for God as used by Arab Christians for hundreds of years and also by the East Malaysians even before the formation of Malaysia. It is not used by ALL Christians in Malaysia but just those from the East Malaysia who are Malay speaking or those who use BM exclusively like the Orang Asli. The reason Malay speaking Christians use Allah just as a title and not as a personal name for God because the God of the Bible already has a personal name - Yahweh. That is His name forever as is written in Exodus 3:15 which means the great I AM. That is His personal name. This Yahweh has NOTHING to do with the Allah of the Koran. Allah is not a title but the personal name of the god of the Koran which incidentally pre-existed Islam. There are too many theological differences between the God of the Bible and the god of the Koran. For starters the God of the Bible loves the Jews and the nation of Israel but the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible has a Son and the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible is a Father to the nation of Israel and to all people in general but the god of the Koran is a father to none. The highest relationship between a Muslim and Allah is that of a Master - Slave.
Christians know that when they call their God in the BM language they are only referring to the God of the Bible only and NEVER to the Allah of the Koran. They only use the word as a title and not as a personal name.
Non-muslims shouldn't comment on Islamic affairs, so they always say.
But Christians are dictated on what words to be used or not to be used....
Funny...
Next time, use back the same argument on them
Yang bukan Kristian, jangan komen.
We did during the Herald court case. The reply was Ini negara Islam and must follow their ways, along those lines. That was when PERKASA was at the forefront of the ultra malays. Now ISMA and PAS gang replace them.
Now whenever they say "Jgn campur hal Islam' on hudud , RU355, I bring up the Allah issue, on the 30 or so words nons cannot use under their Syariah law.
The Christian context of using Allah is not the same as the Muslim's context of using it. For Christians they just use it as a title for God as used by Arab Christians for hundreds of years and also by the East Malaysians even before the formation of Malaysia. It is not used by ALL Christians in Malaysia but just those from the East Malaysia who are Malay speaking or those who use BM exclusively like the Orang Asli. The reason Malay speaking Christians use Allah just as a title and not as a personal name for God because the God of the Bible already has a personal name - Yahweh. That is His name forever as is written in Exodus 3:15 which means the great I AM. That is His personal name. This Yahweh has NOTHING to do with the Allah of the Koran. Allah is not a title but the personal name of the god of the Koran which incidentally pre-existed Islam. There are too many theological differences between the God of the Bible and the god of the Koran. For starters the God of the Bible loves the Jews and the nation of Israel but the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible has a Son and the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible is a Father to the nation of Israel and to all people in general but the god of the Koran is a father to none. The highest relationship between a Muslim and Allah is that of a Master - Slave.
Christians know that when they call their God in the BM language they are only referring to the God of the Bible only and NEVER to the Allah of the Koran. They only use the word as a title and not as a personal name.
Jews lost its special status when they started to defy God's messengers, including John and Jesus. Why God love a group of people who believe that Mary is a prostitute and Jesus will be in hell and boiled in excrement?
Master - Slave relationship iin Qur'an is often seen is a shallow manner, like a human slavemaster and his slaves. It actually emphasizes on the complete authority of God and the complete submission to God of everything from the biggest stars to the smallest sub-atomic particles. Being completely submitted to God is a special status, including having an adherence to the original God's Law and values of absolute monotheism.
Lets see what one high level Imam has to say about the same fiasco. This is an Islamic leader from another country saying this. https://youtu.be/SOv_Q12qgRM
The Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is Ĕlāhā, or Alaha. Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah".
The Christian context of using Allah is not the same as the Muslim's context of using it. For Christians they just use it as a title for God as used by Arab Christians for hundreds of years and also by the East Malaysians even before the formation of Malaysia. It is not used by ALL Christians in Malaysia but just those from the East Malaysia who are Malay speaking or those who use BM exclusively like the Orang Asli. The reason Malay speaking Christians use Allah just as a title and not as a personal name for God because the God of the Bible already has a personal name - Yahweh. That is His name forever as is written in Exodus 3:15 which means the great I AM. That is His personal name. This Yahweh has NOTHING to do with the Allah of the Koran. Allah is not a title but the personal name of the god of the Koran which incidentally pre-existed Islam. There are too many theological differences between the God of the Bible and the god of the Koran. For starters the God of the Bible loves the Jews and the nation of Israel but the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible has a Son and the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible is a Father to the nation of Israel and to all people in general but the god of the Koran is a father to none. The highest relationship between a Muslim and Allah is that of a Master - Slave.
Christians know that when they call their God in the BM language they are only referring to the God of the Bible only and NEVER to the Allah of the Koran. They only use the word as a title and not as a personal name.
You seem very knowledgeable about the issue. Just out of interest, given that Allah is a title for Christians, how would you translate Deuteronomy 10:17 into Malay?
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
You seem very knowledgeable about the issue. Just out of interest, given that Allah is a title for Christians, how would you translate Deuteronomy 10:17 into Malay?
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
The Christian context of using Allah is not the same as the Muslim's context of using it. For Christians they just use it as a title for God as used by Arab Christians for hundreds of years and also by the East Malaysians even before the formation of Malaysia. It is not used by ALL Christians in Malaysia but just those from the East Malaysia who are Malay speaking or those who use BM exclusively like the Orang Asli. The reason Malay speaking Christians use Allah just as a title and not as a personal name for God because the God of the Bible already has a personal name - Yahweh. That is His name forever as is written in Exodus 3:15 which means the great I AM. That is His personal name. This Yahweh has NOTHING to do with the Allah of the Koran. Allah is not a title but the personal name of the god of the Koran which incidentally pre-existed Islam. There are too many theological differences between the God of the Bible and the god of the Koran. For starters the God of the Bible loves the Jews and the nation of Israel but the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible has a Son and the god of the Koran does not. The God of the Bible is a Father to the nation of Israel and to all people in general but the god of the Koran is a father to none. The highest relationship between a Muslim and Allah is that of a Master - Slave.
Christians know that when they call their God in the BM language they are only referring to the God of the Bible only and NEVER to the Allah of the Koran. They only use the word as a title and not as a personal name.
That being said, shudn't d east malaysian christians stay true, and call upon God in His true name?
Some of the best explanations are given by the Muslim Imam himself here on why Allah usage cannot be restricted to the Muslims alone. Wish I can post the video here but unsuccessful each time. Hope someone could help post it.
Brother, relax maybe i was wrong but I think Im not saying Christian want to claim Allah as their God
but i said something like, claim a "Allah"word to be use or referring or replacing God/Tuhan in daily use or in translated bible ... it was raised by Christianity in Malaysia, am I correct?
so i just questioning why others dont want to claim Allah word as daily use or holy book like an example Allah Murugan(Lord or Dewa Murugan that Hindu will celebrate Deepavali this Wednesday) ?
yes you are right because as per Islam Jesus(that referring to Prophet Isa in Islam) was a prophet Allah, where Prophet Isa received a Holy Book Injil(Gospel) from Allah as continuation of Holy Book Taurat(Torah) that was received by Prophet Musa(Moses) earlier ... the continuation and the complete Holy Book (Al-Quran) received by Prophet Muhammad where complete Islam was teach or spread during that time and there is no versioning and translation...
that one is due to the translation done by Melchior Leijdecker; some say it was an inaccurate translation, but it stuck nonetheless *shrug*
Some of the best explanations are given by the Muslim Imam himself here on why Allah usage cannot be restricted to the Muslims alone. Wish I can post the video here but unsuccessful each time. Hope someone could help post it.
Allah literally means The God. god in arabic is illah and is a common noun. so they added Al which means the. so, Al-illah = The God, becomes a proper noun.
God in Aramaic is Elaha..
but in merehsia case, mayb got ppl mudah confuse n its in our culture, so better dont use la..
I'm pretty sure the word Allah is a Malay trademark word (according to them). That's why even Arabs are laughing at us.
TS, its not only Allah cannot be used. Bahasa Malaysia, the national language of Malaysia, also cannot be used in churches.
How like that?
Another thing, ktards here always come and flame me when I defend Indonesia and say that Indonesia is more racist-balik-balik 1998, balik-balik Ahok.
But guess what? In Indonesia, the language used in church is Bahasa Indonesia. My Indonesian church network's members get big surprises when I tell them that, in Malaysia, only Muslims can use national language.
And no, unlike Malaysia, Christians there are not Chinese only or non-Bumi, there, "Malays" whether it is Javanese, Malay or Sundanese are also allowed to be Christians. Their law allows it.
All just for political reasons.. they want to assert dominants, then u know who in this forum is just sheep, the first page already can see. Really believe Muslims will mudah confuse because his beloved government says so. Then defend the reason gao gao.
This post has been edited by toda_erika_II: Oct 17 2017, 09:21 AM
No I dont need to. From what I wrote you should be clear that I am not a Muslim and I don't defend the Muslim position - so if I were to quote him that means I quote him based on what he says and not for who he is or what he is as a person. He could be a fraudster and all that but doesn't mean he is not right in saying what he says about the usage of the word Allah. Even a broken clock that doesn't move is right in telling the time 2 times in a day. That's all to it.
If you think there are better material out there - find it and furnish it here.
If it doesn't matter who he is, then why did you take the pains to point out that he was a "Muslim Imam" in the first place?
Btw, did you get a chance to look at my earlier question about the Malay translation of Deuteronomy 10:17? Really curious to know what it sounds like in Malay, given what you said about Allah being a title.
You need to visit Sabah, plenty of malay language churches there
I know, I come from Sabah, however Indonesia's one is right smack in the capital city.
And, Sabah is still colonised by Malaya. Malay language bibles that were supposed to be sent to Sabah and Sarawak still need to go through customs in KL and thats where Selangor customs confiscated them.
This doesn't happen in Indonesia
QUOTE(toda_erika_II @ Oct 17 2017, 09:21 AM)
All just for political reasons.. they want to assert dominants, then u know who in this forum is just sheep, the first page already can see. Really believe Muslims will mudah confuse because his beloved government says so. Then defend the reason gao gao.
Yeah I believe most of our Muslim citizens if they are real Muslims, not so easily confused.
Reason why Christians can't use 'Allah' is secret 
Oct 16 2017, 01:53 PM, updated 9y ago
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Like wtf?
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