QUOTE(wolfx @ Mar 11 2008, 05:19 PM)
You explaineded the same thing I said better than me, but i don't see why you are calling it "alternate universe". I disagree that they can create universes and stuff though cause if that's the case they might as well re-write the whole dem universe so they haxx0red and win everybody and no need be defeated by Simon.
Being devoid of emotions and desires is a by-product for for stopping their evolution. As you know anti-spirals have stopped their evolution because if the evolve further they fear they will become the spiral nemesis. Throughout the show, spiral power has been depicted as something like "Will Power", GARness, courage, greed (always want more) and perhaps manliness which translates to various things within the world of Gurren Lagann. Example, reproduction. The beastmen are cloned and can't reproduce normally hence they lack the "will power" as well as the spiral energy. BEastman live and work by the will of Lord Genome and now without him, by Simon's will. Whether Viral develops spiral energy later is debatable but that's another story.
So anyway, their main aim is to stop the use of Spiral Energy. 1st is Despair and Fear so the "courage" factor of spiral energy will be stopped. That failed. Then as you said they tried to induce complacency which failed as well. But i don't agree its through altered universes. More like dream-like state so they can remove their spiral energy and kill them off once and for all.
Indirectly her fate was what determined the outcome of that battle. If Nia died before gattai with Simon, i think Simon will be all emo and become Captain Garlock from episode 1 and wage wars with all Spiral Beings instead of longkang digger in the final episode.
It was implied that Simon can use spiral energy to bring Nia back to life but he knows he's only tricking himself by eating the blue pill and live in a false happy world, so he chose with the red pill, the harder decision and decide to live life as is.
QUOTE(wolfx @ Mar 12 2008, 12:11 AM)
Nia is not a beastman. She's a spiral being, one of Lord Genome's daughters (planted by Anti-Spiral) so she has spiral energy regardless of with Simon or not. The reason she disappeared is because her creators, the anti-spirals, are destroyed. Not because she no more spiral power. I know its cliche where "if kill master, everything related to him will disappear too" but this is what is happening. The answer very senang only one lar.
So can u imagine if Nia died before Simon reached her? Even if he located the homeworld in time but was too late to save her, do you think Simon will go back to earth, and give the Core Drill to the the kid, and go live a life as a hermit? Hell no. He will want revenge, and his motivations for continuing the war would've been heightened.
Compared to what happened in the anime, Nia was still alive and supported/gattai with Simon and also let him know she doesn't have long to live. (compared to die killed by Anti Spirals) She talk to Simon about it, Simon understands and to fight on to avenge Nia will be pointless....thus the ending of the anime and why he never became captain KILL EM ALL WITH BIG SPIRAL CANNON Garlock.
Very important phrase....ep 1 , Boota says
"All this stars....are our enemies...."But final episode, Simon looks into the night sky after opening coconut for little boy and says...
"All this stars....are our comrades"See how Nia has changed what would probably be a worse outcome? She definately played a pivotal and important role in Simon's decision IMHO.
This was talking about the alternate universe depicted in episode 1. It didn't happen in the end so no point arguing about it.
Ok I actually didn't see your earlier reply hence why I quote it. As not to sound rude that I didn't reply to it in my later posts and side stepped your POV
So the 1st quotation:
They do have emotions and desire. They determination (to stop their evolotion and the rest of the Spiral beings'), they have curiousity, they have arrogence they even have pride. If you closely enough you can see it all in the anime.
Now for those of you that really want to know what Spiral Nemesis really means it means to be god. If they, the Anti Spirals was just rewrote the Universe to the way they want they will become the Spiral Nemesis. Which in a sense is a step a spiral being must pass as they evolve. That is to say, they will have to learn to control any ultimate power gainned, 'responsibility', quote Spidy. But the Anti Spirals fear that all Spiral beings will succumb to temptation and play god. Hence, why they stop themselves from evolving and in the end, ended up being a Spiral Nemesis (not the one they feared but a weaker version* hence they can live themselves with what decissions they choose for the Spiral beings*) by stopping other Spirals from evolving.
* Weaker version meaning one that does not physically destroy the universe but one that controls to a certain degree. One that builds walls instead one that pieces the heavens.
** Meaning: killing of races by the natural process of actually killing them or culling them to control their evolotion. At the last battle the Anti Spirals nearly became the Spiral Nemesis as Lord Genome himself said that anything the Anti Spirals can kill them off. But the Anti Spirals to prevent themselves from being what they fear the other Spirals were suppose to evolve to decided to curb their power and at the same level as the heroes.
Spiral energy is actually for me the process of evolotion. The anime of course puts in a more graphic and simpler package but presents in a dynamic way. The whole Spiral beings and Spiral energy is just a sub story about human beings manipulating their environment which is a statement about what we are doing now. Are we now becoming the Spiral Nemesis (the Anti Spiral type)? Are killing off so many species of creatures and shaping our planet to what we consider the ideal form instead of letting evolution taking us to next step? (edit: or is that the next step, that we kill ourselves off as we reached the end of our evolution ie the Spiral Nemesis as the Anti Spirals imagined?)
Ok the last paragraph of the 1st quote and the last paragraphs of 2nd quote are the same topic so I'll cover that now.
I didn't say Nia is a beastman. I said Nia being around Simon may have evolved her hence why the Anti Spirals was scanning her for a long time which gave Simon enough time to come get her. Yes, she has Spiral energy but like all Spiral beings it evolves slowly. Simon is an catalyst to accelerate that. Like for instance, the gay mentions before Simon met him he can't or can just barely read much less build, design and work with complexe technologies. But being around Simon accelerate his personal evolution. The others became exceptional combatants. And Kittan who has a lot of will/desire actually became a Spiral User/Warrior like Simon and Genome. So, yes Nia was born to Lord Genome and the Anti Spirals planted what we can call a control chip in her (that's a simpler way to look at it but they did it with energy).
They observed the battles between Simon and Lord Genome and earlier monitor 1st hand the progress of Lord Genome's plan to control the Spiral population. Remember that Lord Genome is not a human.
He happened to land on Earth after surrandering to the Anti Spirals and found out the humans are a low level Spiral race so to prevent them from being wiped out like his race (not sure how many of his people are left) he culled and controlled the humans like the mandate the Anti Spirals used.
Jumping back to Nia, when they took control of her, they really took control of her. They merged their energy/matter that they implanted in her at birth with every fibre of her being thus making her their's in body but apparently not in heart. So once they we destroyed their energy/matter depleted from her body and once it is all gone it was only a matter of time before her damaged body will be unstable and tastefully disintegrate.
So now to the 1st section of the 2nd quote. Simon really won't go emo. Just like when Kamina died you don't see him screaming they will pay for his death. The emo thing he did when Kamina died is become withdrawn from the others and wanted to finish battles himself because he was afraid if they let them do it they would die and leave him alone. As you can see in his speech to Lord Genome he didn't say 'die you bastich for killing my bro and all my friends and the other innocents'. He only said that is he stood in Simon's way (evolution) he will bust through him everytime.
Yes, Nia is very important because without her living through the scanning and without the ring which she kept instead of throwing away (when she was controlled) Simon would have never located the Anti Spiral planet. But Simon will never fight a war of revenge just for her against the Anti Spirals. He will fight a war of survival against them though. Which he did. And destroyed them completely.
The 1st episode is an imagining of what would happen if Simon wasn't as laid back and matured as he is in the 2nd half of the anime. Remember he is not the Spiral Nemesis. To become that he has to be at least as powerful as the Anti Spirals. Instead, it is more or less what if Simon continued trying to walk in Kamina's shadow (being reckless and arrogent) instead of being himself (which is going on with life but not letting obstacles hinder him in finding his final path in life. And what was his final path? To lead the humans to the heavens. Which he did and that's why he handed the Core Drill over to the new generation. Because the old ways (breaking through walls) don't apply anymore since there is no more enemies out to completely destroy human kind (well until the movie is released then we know if it is really a story about man's tragedy with war, that we can never leave it behind).
Here is a quote you would thought never applied to here but main story substance is this best said by my good pal, Dr. Ian Malcolm: If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that life will not be contained. Life breaks free, expands to new territory, and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously.
This post has been edited by RangerRed: Mar 12 2008, 08:30 AM 
Apr 2 2007, 12:08 AM, updated 18y ago
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