well


let me see I think Paul sum it up well in ephesians

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8‭-‬10 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.2.8-10.ESV


we are saved by faith but faith and work is two sides of one coins


btw some preacher quote ephesians 2 on the abolishment of the law


but I can only see Paul talking about wall of hostility which is ceremonial law like circumcision that make.jews distinct from gentile


sign, as one word of faith preacher said himself, you take away text from context and you will get CON. that is some.blowback for that dude

release from the prison of sin with faith and endure to end for reward of eternal life


that sound right?

i guess you are talking about saving faith and not 'lukewarm' faith as described in book of revelation. well, if those lukewarm faith is possible

that sounds fair enough. as what described in parable of vineyard workers and penitent thief. all saved will receive eternal life but reward varies

btw lodiceans is a pretty well off church because of textile industry in that city if I am not mistaken









well

wow


finally see a Christian version of jangan persoal


well


now Matthew 7:1 is perhaps the most abuse or butchered bible verse. some people will just read that one verse out of that chapter while ignoring the inconvenient Matthew 7:15-20




This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 8 2018, 02:01 PM

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
Colossians 2:16‭-‬23 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/col.2.16-23.ESV


read the whole chapter then you will know it is about ceremonial or dietary law


kesian lah people like you

in bible perspective, 'I am' is actually declaration of divinity as what Jesus had declared John 8:56–59

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 20 2018, 06:19 PM

These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be caused to stumble.
John 16:1 ASV
https://bible.com/bible/12/jhn.16.1.ASV

problem with KJV is the archaic English. some word has change meaning since 16 century

all major translation, including other language like chinese the meaning is either falling away or stumble

well

I guess that is why some.people like KJV because the language is archaic so they can manipulate what it means

new testament is written not in Hebrew lol

it is koine Greek lmao

Excellent piece from an once defeated believer


Like many Christians today, Stephen Pippin long believed in the adage, "Once saved, always saved."

This concept, sometimes referred to as "hyper-grace," is often preached in the pulpits of America—leading many to conclude that their ticket to heaven is secure once they say the sinner's prayer.

"The only thing I'm saying is when the preacher says, 'Believe in Christ and you will be saved,' know it is a belief that is supposed to last all your life. It's not just a belief that is supposed to last just that night," says Pippin, the assistant pastor at Dodson Branch Community Church in Cookeville, Tennessee, and the author of Once Saved, Always Saved.

"It's living in Christ. It's fellowship. It's a constant relationship. Christ is your friend. He's not just your ticket to heaven and way out of hell. It's loving God that gets us to heaven. But Jesus says many will go to hell. How many say the sinner's prayer and many years later are just as bad or worse? I know people like that in my own life. How can a man fall into a reprobate state and still say Christ is his Master and Lord?"

In his new book, Pippin explores this profound question, one which Bible scholars have pondered for two millennia: Can a Christian lose his or her salvation and, consequently, entrance into heaven?

In the book, Pippin delves into the topic of what it takes to be secure with Jesus. He shares his thoughts on eternal security and the impact on one's afterlife of living a life of sin after salvation.

Pippin's spiritual journey began at age 12 when he first accepted the Lord as his savior. Afterward, he was "on fire for Christ for about three years," but then fell away.

After recovering from substance abuse, immersion in the hip-hop culture and a life of sin, Pippin rededicated his life to Jesus in 2012. From careful study of Scripture, Pippin, now 31, began shaping and publicly voicing his views on whether heaven is achievable for all Christians.

In an interview with Charisma News, Pippin cited a number of Bible verses to support his views. The book contains more than 600 Bible verses.

Dispelling the notion that one can work their way to heaven, Pippin cites Isaiah 64:6, noting, "all our righteousness is as filthy rags."

"This is why Paul is so adamant about belief, belief, belief, because it is abiding belief, or continued belief, that is key," Pippin says. "It's not our works. We can't work our way to heaven."

Pippin also references the importance of obedience to God (Rom. 16:26) and following the Bible. Further, he cites Luke 6:46: "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say?"

Pippin says, "I heard a popular saying, which has become popular in this lukewarm age: 'Everybody wants a savior, but nobody wants a Lord.' Nobody wants to go to hell, but then again nobody wants to obey God. But Jesus says, 'I'm your Lord.' He tells us what to do. We obey Him, not ourselves. We are not our own God.


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"My book basically says to abide in Him. The one word I can say is 'obedience' to describe the whole book. Be obedient. It's not a perfection kind of obedience. No man can be perfect. It's a brokenness that comes with salvation in Christ Jesus."

Pippin also tells the parable of the prodigal son, noting what the boy's father said in Luke 15:24: "For this son of mine was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found."

"It means when he left his father that he was considered dead and lost," Pippin says. "He wasn't considered his anymore. He was considered the world's—meaning if you live in the world you'll die with the world."

Finally, one of the most powerful verses he cites is Heb. 10:26-27: "For if we willfully continue to sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation...."

In his analysis of this verse, Pippin understands that many believers "do backslide every once in a while."

"It's more about fully putting on the old man," Pippin says. "It's when a man loses his connection with God, when he loses that hatred for sin. Trust me, we sin every day. But if we lose that conviction, the Holy Spirit conviction, then I believe the man is in great need of repentance.

"How can God minister—meaning live inside of you, be convicting you and be your Lord—if you don't hear His voice? Jesus says, 'My sheep hear My voice.' People think Jesus took up the cross for us. That's not what He said. He said, 'Take up your cross and follow Me.' Deny the world. Deny yourself. Deny everything for Me. He told the rich young ruler to give away all his treasure, to give it to the poor—meaning have a heart."

Pippin says he understands that no one can be perfect, but too few believers today make a real effort to strive toward holiness—succumbing to the world's temptations.

"Like I said, it's not perfectionism," Pippin says. "I'd be a hypocrite to say that. It's abiding in Christ. It's struggling with sin. Don't just fall into the world's temptations and think your eternal destiny is assured. We all sin before God. Follow the example of Paul. At the end of his life, he said that he had kept the faith, meaning he didn't lose it. That's what it is. It's being broken for Christ, sacrificing for Christ."

Pippin recognizes that all believers will continue to sin, but God calls on us to fight against sin.

"It's a very difficult thing not to sin—trying to live a perfect life," Pippin says. "The answer is to walk in the Spirit, study the Bible everyday, do your best, feed the poor, have a heart and pray constantly. Be not lukewarm. Jesus says in Revelation 3:16: 'So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spit you out of My mouth.' That means you are in His body and he spews you out of His body.

"We are going to sin, we're going to slip up. It's a guarantee, but fight against it. Go to God. Every time run to the cross. That's it. Struggle. Strive with Christ. He knows we're not going to be perfect. None of the apostles were perfect. They were men just like us, fighting against sin. But they did fight against it. Keep believing Christ will lead you."

I think you better try buy it online at Amazon and have it ship here

Question: "What is Marcionism?"

Answer: Marcionism was a religious movement based on the teachings of the 2nd-century heretic Marcion of Sinope. While none of Marcion’s writings have survived to the present, we know of his teachings through several early Christian writers including Justin Martyr (AD 100—165), Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130—200) and Hippolytus (AD 170—235). These men combatted Marcion in defense of the truth.
Marcion held to many errant views, but he is primarily known for his belief that the Old Testament Scriptures were not authoritative for a Christian. He denied that the God of the Old Testament was the same God presented in the New Testament. For Marcion, Jesus was the Son of the God of the New Testament but not the Son of the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures. The deities of the Old and New Testaments were, from Marcion’s perspective, literally two different gods. Marcion did not deny the existence of the god of the Old Testament (what he referred to as a Demiurge). He simply classified this god as a secondary deity, one that was inferior to the supreme God revealed in Jesus.

Marcion held that Jesus was the only revelation of the Supreme God but that Jesus should not be seen as having fulfilled Old Testament messianic prophecies. Rather, Marcion saw the prophecies as predicting a yet-to-come earthly savior of the Jewish nation. What Marcion was endorsing was a radical discontinuity between Old Testament Judaism and the message of Jesus and the apostle Paul. Marcion also affirmed a form of Docetism, a view that Jesus was not truly a man but only appeared to be human. This in spite of the clarity of verses such as John 1:14 and 1 John 4:1–3, which speak plainly of Jesus’ true humanity.

After being expelled from the church in Rome in AD 144 for his unorthodox teachings, Marcion formed several of his own churches, many of which retained a church government similar to the orthodox Christian churches of the time. From there, Marcion’s views began to spread. Given Marcion’s complete separation of the God of the Hebrew Bible from the God revealed in Jesus, it should be no surprise that he also rejected the authenticity of many New Testament documents. Any apostolic writing that did not comport with his theories was eliminated until all that remained of his collection of authoritative books were ten of Paul’s letters (minus 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) and a highly edited version of the Gospel of Luke. Marcion saw Paul as the only legitimate apostle, but even Paul’s writings suffered under Marcion’s scalpel. Any passage that identified the God of the Old Testament with the Father of Jesus was removed. While it is true that most New Testament books were recognized as Scripture from a very early date, it is likely that Marcion’s truncated canon forced the church to more precisely list which books carried apostolic authority.

Marcionism was one of the earliest rivals to the Christian church. The lesson to be learned from Marcionism is that we have no right to act as editor of the God’s Word, but we must accept and believe the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27) and “contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people” (Jude 1:3).

must quote this before you edit it

Since shioks mentioned Methodist


There you go


Do United Methodists believe “once saved, always saved” or can we “lose our salvation”?

A short, but very incomplete answer, is that our Church teaches we can end up "losing" the salvation God has begun in us, and the consequence of this in the age to come is our eternal destruction in Hell. God freely grants us new birth and initiates us into the body of Christ in baptism. The profession of our faith and growth in holiness are necessary for God's saving grace to continue its work in us, and both of these are things we must do for our love to be genuine and not compelled. We thus remain free to resist God's grace, to revert to spiritual torpor, and possibly experience spiritual death and Hell as its consequence.

I call this a very incomplete answer because it does not actually answer the question in the way it is usually framed, or the meaning of the terms in that framing.

There are several problems with the question itself from the perspective of Wesleyan and Arminian theology. Above all, "once saved, always saved" is simply not part of our theological vocabulary or world-view. It is a kind of Americanized short-hand for the fifth of the core theological principles of Calvinist theology (perseverance of the saints) articulated by the Synod of Dort (1618-1619). Those principles are often summarized in English under the acronym TULIP. They are:

Total Depravity:
Humankind has been utterly ruined by the Fall to the point that there is no good and no possibility for redemption anywhere in us. We merit and can merit nothing but wrath and destruction. This means that only a Sovereign God acting in Sovereignty can deliver us from an eternal destiny in Hell. There is absolutely nothing we can do ourselves to contribute to or take away from God's activity to save us.

Unconditional Election:
As such, God's decision to save us can be and is based on no conditions we can or could ever generate. God has chosen, based on God's own criteria, whom to save and whom not to save, long before we were ever born.

Limited Atonement:
God created the means to deliver us from the merited consequences of our total depravity through the death of Jesus, his Son, on the cross. On the cross, Jesus suffered the consequences of God's just wrath and judgment on behalf of all whom God had elected for salvation, but only for these.

Irresistible Grace: Just as there is nothing humanity can to do change our depraved state, there is also nothing those who have been elect can do to resist the gracious initiative and power of God to bring them to salvation through what God had accomplished for them in the atonement.

Perseverance of the Saints: The result of all the above is that those whom God has elected to salvation and acted to save in the atonement and in the ongoing and irresistible work of the Spirit cannot but actually "persevere unto the end," that is, those who are elect cannot help but be faithful and thus experience the promised salvation.

To be sure, not everyone who has followed a "generally" Calvinist theology has followed all "five points" of the Synod of Dort. Perhaps the majority of Calvinists in the United States have adopted a modified version of this account of God's saving activity, most frequently by eliminating, de-emphasizing, or modifying "double predestination" (that is, that God had ordained both who would be saved and who would be damned), limited atonement (emphasizing that Christ had died for all, and that all thus potentially could be saved), and irresistible grace (opting for some limited role for free will).

Often, too, in making these accommodations, the understanding of salvation has been radically altered. In classic Calvinism, God saves and our participation is entirely in God's control, not in ours if at all. There is thus simply no way that one can speak coherently in such a framework of anyone either "gaining" or "losing" salvation, because salvation is simply not ours to possess or control in any way. We can in a very real sense neither gain nor lose it. But in many modified forms, salvation is indeed something we can possess by agreeing to or, more often, verbally confessing or offering prayers that confess certain beliefs at some point in our lives. If one has ever said such words, one is saved now and always.

The theology of John Wesley, however, follows more closely a different strand of theology in the Western and the Orthodox (Eastern) tradition that understands salvation is both something God does and in which we cooperate, though not as equals by any means. Only God can initiate salvation. But only by our ongoing, living relationship with God through faith can God's saving intention be fully realized in our lives.

John Wesley particularly identified his understanding of salvation with the theology and writings of the seventeenth century Dutch theologian, Jacob Arminius, against whose teaching the Synod of Dort was called and its Canons (the TULIP principles described above) were articulated. While Arminius was Reformed, he was far more convinced by the mainstream Roman Catholic theology which spoke of human free will and limited human cooperation in salvation, dissenting strongly from what was already becoming and later would become the standard of Reformed theology in his country.

Arminius, like Calvin and all of classical Christianity, affirmed that there is nothing humans can do to initiate salvation. Only God can do this, and God does so unconditionally, and for all, not just a limited number of the pre-selected. Christ's saving activity in his life, death and resurrection was thus potentially effective for all. Only faith, which is an exercise of our will, under the influence of divine grace, is required of us. Such faith and responsiveness to God grace, revealed in our works, but not caused by them, keeps us "in grace." This means it is possible for us to "fall from grace," a phrase he borrows from verses in Hebrews 6 and 10, by not sustaining our faith. A lapse in our works can be a sign, but again is not a cause, of such a fall from grace. The consequences, if our error is not corrected, can be spiritual death and eternity in Hell.

Though perhaps the most popular publication John Wesley produced during his lifetime was called "The Arminian," he sharply disagreed with Arminius on one point. Arminius had concluded that if a person had fallen from grace and into a state of spiritual death after having had an experience of conversion (whether that was understood to have occurred through baptism or to be heightened or awakened in a personal experience or affirmation later in life) there was no further hope for salvation. Wesley rejected this. Both experience and scripture told him otherwise. He addressed this at greatest length in his sermon, "A Call to Backsliders."

In this sermon Wesley tackles the Arminian argument on the grounds of both scripture and experience.

Wesley notes that the penalty of eternal separation from God with no hope of return applies in scripture only in two cases-either, as in Hebrews 6 and 10, to persons who willfully, publically and explicitly reject Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or, as in the gospels, to those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus were the works of the Evil one. He then turns the question to his hearers: "Now, which of you has thus fallen away? Which of you has thus 'crucified the Son of God afresh?' Not one: Nor has one of you thus 'put him to an open shame.'" The penalty of there being no more sacrifice for sins thus cannot apply to the vast majority of those who have indeed fallen into spiritual decline, and perhaps close to or even into spiritual death, but have not in fact committed these atrocities.

The first paragraph of Wesley's argument from experience is worth repeating in its entirely (emphasis added). Acting as his own interviewer, Wesley writes:

Do you know, have you seen, any instance of persons who found redemption in the blood of Jesus, and afterwards fell away, and yet were restored, -- 'renewed again to repentance?' " Yea, verily; and not one, or an hundred only, but, I am persuaded, several thousands. In every place where the arm of the Lord has been revealed, and many sinners converted to God, there are several found who "turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." For a great part of these "it had been better never to have known the way of righteousness." It only increases their damnation, seeing they die in their sins. But others there are who "look unto him they have pierced, and mourn," refusing to be comforted. And, sooner or later, he surely lifts up the light of his countenance upon them; he strengthens the hands that hang down, and confirms the feeble knees; he teaches them again to say, "My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit rejoiceth in God my Saviour." Innumerable are the instances of this kind, of those who had fallen, but now stand upright. Indeed, it is so far from being an uncommon thing for a believer to fall and be restored, that it is rather uncommon to find any believers who are not conscious of having been backsliders from God, in a higher or lower degree, and perhaps more than once, before they were established in faith.

Does this mean that it is impossible for persons to fall so far from grace once received that they will never end up in Hell? By no means. Hell is surely the potential destination for all who are not living into "that holiness without which no one can see God" (Hebrews 12:14, a phrase frequently quoted in the sermons and journals of John Wesley). His point is that despite whatever the condition of our souls may be, God is always calling, always wooing, always pleading, and always working and leaving the way open for our faith to be renewed, our hearts to be quickened by grace, and our souls to be brought to life and health again.

In our Wesleyan-Arminian theology, as in all mainstream Christian theology, salvation still isn't ours to possess. It is always and only God who saves. In that sense we cannot "lose" salvation. But we can "fall away" from it. Or to use another metaphor, we can move so far from the saving streams of God's love and power that we parch and spiritually die. The consistent focus of Wesley's teaching, however, is far less the warning about the possibility of such death and thus ultimately Hell (though he does not shrink from offering such warnings upon occasion, even as noted in the quote above), but rather upon the consistent, unfailing grace of the God revealed in Scripture and in the person of Jesus Christ, the God who is abounding in mercy and steadfast love.

Once saved, always saved? No. We're not Calvinists. We don't believe God has orchestrated the world and the universe to make that the necessary outcome for some limited number of the pre-selected. And we're not reducing salvation to a propositional transaction, as some forms of American Protestant proclamation has done, so that once we believe and say certain things, no matter what else happens, we "have" salvation and can never "lose" it.

Perhaps the better phrase, though one Wesley himself did not use, would be one that starts where Calvin starts-not with us (as once saved, always saved often seems to do), but with God. "God is out to save us, one and all." Though we have no faith we can articulate, God is out to save us, one and all. Though our faith may grow dim and our works disorderly, God is out to save us, one and all. Though we may lose our way and do terrible things to others, God is out to save us, one and all. And though for some God's efforts to save may still leave them in spiritual death and Hell, God is out to save us, one and all.

Once saved, always saved? No. But always, always called to the fullness of God's salvation. And always, always loved.

The Rev. Taylor Burton-Edwards is Director of Worship Resources with the General Board of Discipleship of the United Methodist Church, and an elder in the North Indiana Conference.

easy believism? let's hear it from the man, billy Graham


Q&A: Billy Graham's Warning Against an Epidemic of 'Easy Believism'

The evangelist speaks to CT on obedience, Heaven and Hell, and his My Hope campaign.

INTERVIEW WITH CHRISTIANITY TODAY | OCTOBER 15, 2013

Image: Kevork Djansezian / AP

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In the heydey of his crusade ministry, Billy Graham would travel across the globe to preach to stadium-sized audiences. Now, though confined to his home in the mountains of western North Carolina, the mass evangelist is still able, using modern technology, to continue proclaiming the gospel. November marks the beginning of the ";My Hope America with Billy Graham,"; campaign, a video evangelism course designed for individual and small group use. In conjunction with the launch of My Hope America, Graham has released what may be his final book, The Reason for My Hope: Salvation. CT asked Graham about his thoughts on the present state of Christian belief and his confidence, amidst theological and cultural confusion, in the core gospel message.

Do you call yourself an evangelical, or a Christian, first? Why?

What really matters is how God sees me. He isn't concerned with labels; he is concerned about the state of man's soul. The Bible tells me that I am first a sinner. ";For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"; (Rom. 3:23). But because of the saving grace Jesus has extended to me, and my repentance of sin, I am his child—having been saved by the blood of my Savior on the cross. At that moment, I entered into a life-changing relationship with him. Those who read The Reason for My Hope will see clearly from Scripture how to be saved and how to live the Christian life.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Master. I have repented of my sin, turned my life over to Christ, and seek daily to obey his Holy Word. I am his follower. Before my conversion on November 1, 1934, which I tell of in the book, I always thought myself a Christian. It wasn't until I was confronted and convicted of my sin that I realized that Christ makes a difference in the lives of those who not only claim his name but obey his Word. If there is no change in a person's life, he or she must question whether or not they possess the salvation that the gospel proclaims. Many who go to church have not had a life-changing transformation in Christ. Those outside the church expect followers of Christ to live differently, yet today many in church are chasing after the world—not to win them, but to be like them. This is very dangerous and the Bible gives account to the tragic result.

In the New Testament, when people heard the truth Jesus taught and received his glorious gift of forgiveness and hope for eternal life in Heaven, others who observed the change in their lives called them Christians—Christ followers (Acts 11:26). Just as Jesus came willingly to rescue mankind from sin, I willingly serve him and seek to glorify him with my life because I am a child of the King. Being called a Christian should identify us with the demands Christ makes on those who belong to him. He tells us to count the cost of following him.


My preaching is that of an evangelist and I wholeheartedly believe in the fundamental teaching of the Holy Scriptures. This is the foundation of my book. My hope is that people will read it. My desire is that readers will comprehend the privilege and responsibility of living the Christian life. When Jesus becomes our Master we set aside our way and walk his way. It is not always easy but enormously productive and challenging, because those who follow him become shining lights in a very dark world. This is why the Christian has hope. The reason I have hope for the world is because Christ died for the whole world and is calling the lost and weary to come to him. Jesus said he had ";come to seek and to save that which was lost"; (Luke 19:10).

Why, according to the title of your book, is salvation the reason for your hope?

As I approached my 95th birthday, I was burdened to write a book that addressed the epidemic of ";easy believism."; There is a mindset today that if people believe in God and do good works they are going to Heaven. But there are many questions that must be answered. There are two basic needs that all people have: the need for hope and the need for salvation. It should not be surprising if people believe easily in a God who makes no demands, but this is not the God of the Bible. Satan has cleverly misled people by whispering that they can believe in Jesus Christ without being changed, but this is the Devil's lie. To those who say you can have Christ without giving anything up, Satan is deceiving you. While I am no longer able to stand in the pulpit and deliver a sermon from the Bible, God laid on my heart a burning desire to put this message in book form—a message that resonates within me every time I switch on the news. When I visit with people from all walks of life the question is asked, ";What is happening in the world?";

Many politicians and government leaders have asked me this question. Countless students on university campuses have begged to hear the truth. I have always explained that Almighty God is the architect of earth, the Creator of mankind, and has fashioned the soul. He is the Beginning and the End and the Giver and Finisher of Faith. All answers lie within the revealed Word of God. Salvation is God's gift to the world, but the gift of God's love and forgiveness must be accepted on his terms—not ours. Gifts are never forced; they are offered and received. Many today say that the idea of redemption is antiquated. I write in the book about Hollywood, and even professional football, loving stories of redemption. Why? A film critic stated that people want to overcome what troubles them from within. Christ is the only source that can remove the despair within our hearts. This is the reason for my hope, that people everywhere will open their hearts to Christ's salvation—the redemptive gift that offers peace and the certainty of eternal life.

Why do you think God has seen fit to give you additional time on earth before calling you home?

Traveling around the world and preaching for over 70 years did not give much time for reflection. But no matter where I was in the world when I came home, Ruth was always here waiting. We enjoyed those moments, and she and I always found time with the Lord together, rejoicing with answers to prayer. I miss that fellowship with her. She was a prayer warrior and loved to sit and talk about the Bible. She's been in Heaven six years now and I believe the Lord has given me this season of life to consider all that is still left to do and to be faithful to the message of Christ while I still have breath. Whether we preach from a pulpit or sit in quiet contemplation, there is always much more to learn as we seek the face of the Lord. Looking back there are times I was not as strong as I should have been, but my heart and my ministry have always been rooted in God's Word. The message I preach is anchored on what ";the Bible says.";

I try to spend my days encouraging others to serve Jesus Christ wholeheartedly, praying for those who labor in his name, and asking that many more answer God's call to preach the gospel truth, declaring what the Bible says. It is truth. His word is life.

How did you select the topics and illustrations that speak so specifically to people's needs?

This book addresses many issues and concerns that weigh heavy on my heart, and while I have written over 30 books, I believe this book focuses on matters that are on the minds of people everywhere. There are so many religions in the world, and I have never witnessed as much confusion as there is today about where to find truth. We have people preaching that God is a God of love, not of wrath. We have people proclaiming that Heaven is real but Hell is only a figment of imagination. As research was done for this book, my heart ached to hear story after story of people bragging that Hell will be one continuous happy hour; high profile comedians joke that they are happy to know they will one day go there.

This book is written to sound a warning—a loving warning from Heaven—that Heaven is created for those who humble themselves before God and Hell is created for Satan and those who serve him. Christ came to turn mankind away from the hold Satan wants to have in people's lives. Jesus Christ is the answer for the world—he is the anchor of the soul—he is the God of hope that came in human form to rescue us from Satan's grip. A seminary professor once made a profound statement to his students: ";Never preach Hell without tears in your eyes."; My message is to proclaim that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and ask each one this question: Have you ever been saved?

In your book you pose the question: Who would refuse rescue from tragedy? Why is this?

It seems unreasonable that a human being would refuse rescue from a sinking ship, but people actually have because they didn't really believe they would drown. Likewise, the world is full of people who do not believe dying in their sin will send them to Hell, so they refuse to be rescued by way of the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I have known many intriguing people and write about some in the book, like American war hero Louis Zamperini, who was rescued out of the Pacific Ocean only to be captured by the enemy during World War II. But he found out later that a greater enemy was master of his soul, and he wasn't willing to be rescued from alcoholism until he came face-to-face with the enemy and was rescued by the saving love of God.

Just as I began working on the book, the Costa Concordia went down off the coast of Italy. Such terror that strikes human hearts is indescribable. Suddenly people begin to realize that the good life cannot save. They cry out to be rescued but the people around them are also in despair, unable to help. Where does one turn? This is the state of our world, and the only One who can save is the One who was born for that sole purpose, as the Christmas story tells us. The Virgin Mary will bring forth a Son conceived of the Holy Spirit, and his name will be Jesus, ";for He will save His people from their sins"; (Matt. 1:21).

The Bible is still the best-selling book of all time, yet people refuse to believe. They refuse to accept the greatest gift that has ever been offered to mankind. Why? Because it calls for the confession of sin and the complete surrender of one's selfish ways. It calls for repentance of sin against God. Many would prefer to live it up for a short time on earth in hope that there is no Hell to suffer in the afterlife. They believe Satan's lie that there is no life after death. But Jesus spoke of Hell much more than he spoke of Heaven. This is why I have spent my life calling out to the people of the world: Come to Jesus just as you are, and he will receive you and strengthen you each step of the way.

You write that ";Sin is in."; What do you mean by that?

In the 21st-century society, people have given sin a makeover, calling sin a mistake. God calls it iniquity. It is a disease of the soul. Society generally wants to campaign against disease, raise money to eradicate it. But the disease of sin is celebrated and glorified by society and especially in the pop culture of the day, ignoring the toll it takes in the physical, emotional, and spiritual realms. Society may boast that ";sin is in,"; but the truth is that sin is in you, me, and everyone.

Secular media carry stories frequently about men and women who commit horrific crimes, and mankind demands that a penalty be paid. Yet, mankind resents God demanding that a penalty be paid for sins committed against Creator God. God shows Himself the loving Father that he is by sending his own sacrifice, his only Son, to die in man's place, paying the penalty for the sin that the Bible says ";easily ensnares us"; (Heb. 12:1). Many people who transgress God's laws resent their sin being judged by a righteous God. We reject the idea of our own transgressions, but when it comes to transgressions as in common sports language, we accept the rules; in fact, we love them. If we are rooting for our team and the opposing team commits a transgression, we cheer. This is what is in the heart of man, but I can assure you that God does not cheer from the sidelines when we go out of the bounds of his law and commit transgressions (sins) against him. His heart is grieved. Sin is poison and destroys. Salvation is the antidote that purifies.

Society today is obsessed with technology, something you write about in detail. Is there a biblical view of technology?

The Bible declares that ";there is nothing new under the sun"; (Ecc. 1:9). Nothing surprises God. He enables his creation to tap into the resources he has given to us on earth. We have certainly watched the plethora of communication capabilities explode as we moved into the 21st century. I have always loved the art of communication, and there is no question that my preaching ministry benefitted greatly by utilizing amplification and magnification in arenas and stadiums around the world. Television and radio enabled the gospel to reach far corners of the earth, as the Bible predicted. But while God allows blessing to come from such grand inventions like wireless and mobile devices, Satan has also used technology to cleverly advance his deception. There are generations today that take pride in their ability to communicate instantly through Facebook or Twitter but are unable to communicate face-to-face. People are finding solace sitting in front of computer screens willing to talk to total strangers about anything and everything through electronic communication, but don't believe God could ever hear their cries of loneliness, grief, and pain.

A Harvard University president once told me that what young people desire the most is ";to belong."; Multitudes are willing to belong to just about anything except God. The human race has always been on a quest for truth and acceptance, yet men and women are unwilling to accept the One who is the truth. Instead they are turning to a new fad—designer religion—faith blending, a little Christianity, a little Buddhism, and a little New Age. This is a trick of the Devil, who loves to mix some truth with his lies. The Bible warns about this and tells us that we must hold fast to truth and fight for the faith. ";In latter times some [will give] heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons…having their own consciences seared"; (1 Tim. 4:1-2).

But technology is a gift from God when it is used to proclaim the gospel. This is why I am excited about My Hope, an evangelistic program developed by our ministry that has been used around the world. Through every means of reliable communication, we are proclaiming the Good News that God loves sinners and calls men and women everywhere to repent and turn to him, receiving true hope that comes from God. I have been preparing for several months to deliver this message through My Hope America, a television special that will be seen in homes across the nation the week of my 95th birthday. I cannot think of anything I would rather do to celebrate another year of life than to proclaim God's truth. My prayer is that all Christians will open their homes to their family and neighbors who need Christ and tune in to see what God is doing in these days that may seem dark, yet are full of hope.

This is the message of the book, and it is the message of our upcoming television special this November. ";Hope and change"; has become a cliché in America the past several years. In the book I write about the disappointments Americans have experienced when hope and change promised by men failed. But there is no disappointment in the God of hope. The Bible says that it is in Jesus, God's Son, that the world can have hope and that the ";God of hope"; can fill us with joy and peace in believing this great truth through his power (Rom. 15:12-13).

Sixty years ago, you awoke in the middle of the night with a dream to start Christianity Today magazine. CT is still in circulation, now reaching millions of people along with a host of sister publications. Is that surprising and encouraging to you?

I give God thanks and all the glory for every avenue that carries his message into hearts and minds. Christianity Today has been kind to me and the ministry God has given to us. I am grateful that CT is supporting My Hope this fall. I appreciate the opportunity to share about this book that is so much on my heart.

It is always a joy to read articles that lift up Jesus Christ and point people to the cross, and I encourage the editors, writers, contributors, researchers, and the board of directors to always keep Christ at the center of everything. Let's honor him and him alone.

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 23 2018, 08:51 AM

one can only have one Lord

it is either Jesus or the world


choose wisely

Billy Graham Slams Prosperity Gospel: ‘You Cannot Serve Both God And Money’
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The Bible doesn’t say that being a faithful Christian will lead to material wealth, says the Rev. Billy Graham who responded to a question about the teachings of prosperity gospel preachers by noting that Jesus and His disciples were never rich.

In a question-and-answer column published on the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association website on Wednesday, Graham was asked whether God wants people to be wealthy.

“Does God want everyone to be rich? I heard someone on TV claim that this is what the Bible teaches, but I wonder if it’s true,” the reader asked Graham. “We struggle every month just to pay our bills, and yet my husband and I have always tried to put God first.”

Graham responded by saying, “the Bible doesn’t promise that everyone who follows Jesus will become wealthy,” as Jesus Himself was not a rich man.

“After all, Jesus wasn’t rich, nor were His first disciples — not at all. In fact, the only disciple who really cared about money was Judas, whose greed and unbelief caused him to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver,” wrote Graham.

“Repeatedly the Bible warns us against being consumed by money, or placing it first in our lives instead of Christ. Jesus said, ‘No one can serve two masters. … You cannot serve both God and money’ (Matthew 6:24).”

Graham went on to stress that the better wealth was a spiritual nature, noting that “when we know Christ we are rich — not necessarily with this world’s goods, but with spiritual riches!

“Think of it a moment. Can anything this world offers be greater than God’s forgiveness? Can anything be greater than Christ’s presence with us every day?” Graham asked.

“Can anything be greater than the privilege of prayer, or being part of Christ’s family, or being used to bless others?”

The prosperity gospel theology states that God wants believers to be rich and if they have enough faith, they can become materially wealthy.

While widely denounced in most Christian circles, prosperity gospel has been known to be preached among some megachurch pastors and televangelists.

Graham is not the only prominent Christian figure to offer recent comments denouncing the prosperity gospel. Saddleback Church Pastor Rick Warren also critiqued the notion in a devotional published last month.

Referring to Earth as “a temporary assignment,” Warren wrote back in August that it is “a fatal mistake to assume that God’s goal for your life is material prosperity or popular success as the world defines it.”

“Paul was faithful, yet he ended up in prison. John the Baptist was faithful, but he was beheaded. Millions of faithful people have been martyred, have lost everything, or have come to the end of life with nothing to show for it,” Warren said.

“The abundant life has nothing to do with material abundance. Faithfulness to God does not guarantee success in a career or even in ministry. Never focus on temporary crowns.”

             

Are Health and Wealth a Part of the Gospel?

Question:  I have some very good friends involved with the wealth, health gospel. They are told the following:

Prosperity, health and success is part of the gospel. When Jesus died, He died to redeem us from the curse of the law (Galatians 3:13). One of the curses of the fall of Adam was poverty (Genesis 3:17-19), sickness and disease. Under the Old Testament Mosaic law, poverty and sickness was a curse for breaking the law (see Deuteronomy 28:17-18). When Jesus died, He set us free from this curse. Through the gospel of Jesus Christ we are thus free from poverty and sickness just as we are free from sin. Through the gospel, we have restored fellowship with God, and this includes access to the abundant provision of our Father in heaven. The gospel is therefore about freedom from lack, sickness and distress just as much as it is about freedom from sin. Sin is the root cause of all these problems, and when Jesus took care of sin on the cross of Calvary, He took care of these problems too. Because salvation from lack and sickness is as much a part of the gospel as salvation from sin, it is right to preach it as part of the gospel.

What can one say to all this?

Response:  Let me begin with a consideration of the points your friends (or really those influencing your friends) are making here.

1) "prosperity, health and success is part of the gospel".

No, not at all. The gospel is very clear. It is eternal life available for all through faith in Jesus Christ (cf. Rom.1). Yes there will be blessings unimaginable in the world to come, but nowhere in the Bible do I find Jesus promising us "prosperity, health and success". Compare: "In this world, you will have tribulation" (Jn.16:33). In this same verse, Jesus promises us peace, but that does not mean material wealth as a given.

2) "When Jesus died, He died to redeem us from the curse of the law (Galations 3:13). One of the curses of the fall of Adam was poverty (Genesis 3:17-19), sickness and disease. Under the Old Testament Mosaic law, poverty and sickness was a curse for breaking the law (see Deuteronomy 28:17-18). When Jesus died, He set us free from this curse. Through the gospel of Jesus Christ we are thus free from poverty and sickness just as we are free from sin."

This is, even at first blush, an extremely tendentious and convoluted argument. It is very doubtful to me that anyone would accept it at face value who hadn't already accepted the teaching it is supposed to advance (and it is a characteristic of cults to supply arguments for their beliefs after the fact rather than seeking truth from scripture). The reasoning here seems to be that since we are free from the Mosaic Law, that therefore we get wealth and health. Following this logic, Paul, who is the one who tells us this the most clearly in the New Testament would never have been sick (he was, of course: Gal.4:12-15), and should have been one of the wealthiest Christians in history (whereas in fact he had to make tents at night to support himself and his ministry: cf. 1Thes.2:9). But none of this chain of argument makes sense. Adam's curse (not a part of the "Law" which it predates by several thousand years) is to have to work for a living, and that will continue to be the case until the end of this present world (until the paradise of the new heavens and new earth at the end of the Millennium). As to the Deuteronomy passage, there is a punishment of poverty upon godlessness and rebellion against God - that is indeed still true today. But that does not mean that those who are not in rebellion against God will experience wealth and exceptional prosperity - we are told to be content as long as we have food and clothing (1Tim.6:8), hardly the standard envisioned by this "ministry" influencing your friends. We are indeed liberated from sin by faith in Jesus Christ, but we are still in this world. Jesus did not ask for us to be taken out of this world (Jn.17:15-19) - we have been left in it to serve Him, and to show the world that we have faith in Him regardless of the pressures and abuses that the world heaps upon us, and regardless of material privation (which Christians are indeed called upon to suffer from time to time: cf. Heb.11:37-38; 1Pet.4:12-19).

3) "Through the gospel, we have restored fellowship with God, and this includes access to the abundant provision of our Father in heaven."

This is true, as far as it goes, but what is that abundant provision? We are here to serve Jesus, and, to that end, we do have certain needs, food and clothing, shelter, the means to do the ministries to which we have been called. But do we need a Mercedes Benz? Do we need a ski- chalet in the mountains? Do we need a reserve of several millions in T-Bills? etc.??? Solomon's sayings of Agur are pertinent here:

Give me neither poverty or riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise I may have too much and disown you and say, "who is the Lord", or I may become poor and steal and so dishonor the name of my God.
Proverbs 30:8-9 NIV

Apropos of this, Jesus commanded us to pray for our "daily bread" - not for vast quantities of riches stored up for years to come, but only to have enough for the day at hand (cf. Lk.12:16-21). We are not to worry, not to look far into the future as regards to God's provision, but take this life one day at a time, ever trusting our God to provide the essentials we need to survive in this world and serve Him (Matt.6:25-34). Our treasures, our true treasures, do not consist of the dust of this world which will not endure (cf. Jas.1:9-11), but rather our true treasures are the Word of God and the power of the Spirit and the opportunity to serve the Body of Christ - all of which work out an eternal weight of glory which is not to be compared to the paltry material stuff of this terrible and un-fulfilling world (Matt.6:19-21;2Cor.4:17). In short, the true treasures of the believer are all spiritual, and the material blessings we have from God are only of any enduring worth to the extent that they are needed to support our spiritual growth and our Christian service and ministry, for it is upon these two pillars that our eternal rewards rest.

4) "The gospel is therefore about freedom from lack, sickness and distress just as much as it is about freedom from sin. Sin is the root cause of all these problems, and then Jesus took care of sin on the cross of Calvary, He took care of these problems too. Because salvation from lack and sickness is as much a part of the gospel as salvation from sin, it is right to preach it as part of the gospel."

Jesus has redeemed us from sin. Otherwise, we could not have eternal life. Sin, Adam's sin which is passed to each of us by physical birth and which inhabits our mortal bodies (Rom.5-7), is indeed at the root of all mankind's problems. These problems are not, however, being completely resolved at this present time in this flawed world in which we live. There is still sin here, still evil, still corruption. Not until the day of eternity will these problems be solved in material terms - as believers we still have a "sin nature" (lit., "sin indwelling" the body": Rom.7:17). We have indeed been set free from sin spiritually speaking, but it is most peculiar that prosperity gospel adherents wish to see this spiritual deliverance in predominantly material terms.

I suppose it could be argued that, well, what is wrong with Christians having health and material success? To which I reply, not necessarily anything, in and of itself. But we should remember that all the great believers of the Bible had much tribulation and testing in this world - and very few of them were "rich". Abraham was very wealthy, it is true, but he was also called upon to face testing that few of us can even imagine (the sacrifice of long-awaited son Isaac being the most dramatic). None of the apostles were rich. All underwent incredible testing, suffering, and, in at least Paul's case, dire health problems and extreme testing in the area of material privation (cf. 2Cor.12:7-10; and 2Tim.4:13 with v.16). This principle is most obvious in the case of our Lord Himself, who, throughout His three and one half year ministry, walked throughout the land without even possessing a home to which He might return (Lk.9:58), and was supported by others at a very basic level at all times (we would be tempted to call this "poverty": Mk.15:41). Indeed, we have it from scripture that our Lord's coming into this world was a matter of Him "making Himself poor" that we might become rich - not in the material things of this world which are but dust and will not endure - but rich in spirit and in the Spirit, in salvation, and in knowledge of Him, in faith (Jas.2:5), in good works (1Tim.6:18), and in eternal rewards (2Cor.8:9). There are no greater riches than these true "riches of Christ" (Eph.3:8), and it is these spiritual riches which we ought to esteem, for "where your riches are, there will your heart also be" (Matt.6:21). Rather, then, than seeking personal wealth, should we not instead have the same attitude that Jesus had, that Paul had: "poor, yet making many rich [spiritually]; having nothing, yet possessing everying [in Christ]" (2Cor.6:10)?

Wealth is, in fact, not a spiritually neutral thing. From the spiritual perspective, it may bring great risks that those who are not rich never encounter (cf. 1Tim.6:6-10). It is harder for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven because they have a tendency to look to their wealth as the basis of their security and so are not as inclined to look to God and to trust Him (Mk.10:25 cf. Lk.6:24; 12:20).

The Bible has much to say on the subject of wealth (almost exclusively in the form of warnings against the dangers inherent in possessing them), and it is speaks volumes that the prosperity gospel people never want to look at the Bible as a whole, but only at certain select passages that serve their purpose. One passage will have to suffice here which should be sufficient to make the issues clear:

(7) We have brought nothing into this world – and are not able to take anything out of it. (8) So if we have daily sustenance and coverings for our bodies, we will be content with these. (9) Those who want to get rich fall into temptations, traps, and many senseless and harmful lusts – the kind which swamp men['s hearts] to their destruction and damnation. (10) For the love of money is a root [cause] of all evils – [and it is] in the pursuit of which [love of money that] some have wandered away from the faith (i.e., become apostates) and have pierced themselves through with many pains.
1st Timothy 6:7-10

This passage makes clear both of the main points against the prosperity gospel mentioned above:

        1) as Christians, we are not of this world and the things of this world are not to be our focus (so that material prosperity cannot be part of the gospel);

        2) setting one's sights on riches can be disastrous, even to the point of compromising one's salvation (so that the prosperity gospel isn't just wrong, it's terribly dangerous).

I believe it is not too much to say that promising people wealth and health as a part of the gospel violates the entire message of the Bible, for Christ told us that we should "count the cost" of following Him (Lk.14:28). True discipleship is not a road of ease and material abundance, but a challenging road that requires many sacrifices, picking us our cross in emulation of Him, no matter what the consequences. Hardly the tone and flavor of the prosperity gospel.

One last thought here. In my experience and observation, it is generally those who are preaching the prosperity gospel who end up getting the "prosperity" - not the sheep they are fleecing.

You may also find the following links helpful:

The "Prosperity Gospel".

The Dangers of the Prosperity Gospel.

Does God really want us to be sick and poor? Revisiting the prosperity gospel.

Habakkuk's Prosperity Prayer: Habakkuk 3:17-19.

In Him who is our true wealth and our eternal life, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Bob Luginbill

Question #2: 

Thank you so much for your response as I am truly concerned about my friends. They really believe that if they give enough money (which they cannot afford) to this church they will be "blessed" with money 100 fold in return. They say it is the seed principle, you reap the type of seed that you sow.....money reaps money. They say it is a spiritual law and it has to happen or "God is a liar". It is amazing how people can be led so far away from the true intent of the Word.

Response #2: 

The details you give hear have a familiar ring. It is very typical of all cults to put things in these terms: 1) sacrifice for the leaders of the group beyond any rational point; 2) promises not based on scripture; 3) vitriolic rhetoric that shuts out any level-headed discussion of scripture. See the following links:

        Read your Bible: Protection against Cults

        Three False Doctrines that Threaten Faith

As to the assertion that Jesus' mentioning of the "30, 60, and 100 fold" might refer to money showered upon those who give to such organizations, it is very clear from even a superficial reading of the parable of the sower where this reference occurs that these "returns" refer to the production of the good believer, that is, this is the crop we produce for God, not some material blessing (monetary or otherwise) He rewards us with in this world for giving money (cf. Matt.13:23).

Yours in Him in whom we hope, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Bob L.

Ichthys Home

 

 

 

 

 

  

Question: Steve, I have heard people use verses like Matthew 21:22 and Mark 11:24 to support the claim that you can ask whatever things from God and receive from Him. How would you respond to these people?

Answer: Matthew 21:22 and Mark 11:24 has often been misinterpreted in some sectors of evangelism. Some have used it to support a form of Prosperity and Word of Faith theology that says God will give you just about anything you want as long as you have enough faith in Him. Although a superficial reading of the text may seem to support that interpretation, a reading in context will show that Matthew 21:22 and Mark 11:24 does not support a prosperity, self-serving theology in anyway. These two verses teach that there is power in faith-based prayer, yet it always goes hand-in-hand with God’s sovereign workings.  

We see the first example of this in Mark 11:24 where Jesus speaks about the power of faith and the sovereign outworking of God after Jesus withers up a fig tree. Peter was astounded at such an amazing act, to which Jesus responded with his analogy of moving mountains (v. 22-23). Jesus’ point is that if believers sincerely trust in God and truly realize the unlimited power that is available through such faith in Him, they will see His mighty powers at work (Jn 14:13-14).  Jesus was not saying that believers will receive anything they wanted as long as they asked. God does not cater to the sinful desires of the flesh, because that would contradict what James said in James 4:2-3. In context of what Jesus was preaching (as well as what He taught in Matthew 17:20 and in the Sermon on the Mount), He says that there are no limits on a believer’s prayers as long as they are done in God’s will. This means that man’s faith and prayer are fully compatible with God’s sovereignty and usually works together in accomplishing God’s salvific and glorious purposes throughout history. This is a mysterious working, but not mutually exclusive. It is our duty to be faithful and obedient to the clear teachings in Scripture regarding prayer, such as what is found in Mark 11:24 and Matthew 21:22.

Whenever God’s will unfolds throughout history, whether it be the salvation of certain individuals, the dethronement of the wicked, or the aid of the poor, it usually has worked in conjunction with the fervent and faithful prayers of the saints who interceded on behalf of those people or institutions. This is what it means to pray in accordance with God’s will, to pray for what is good and holy (Matt 7:7-8). The “all things for which you pray and ask” in Mark 11:24 are the things that are prayed for and lived for according to God’s good and holy will – the good things that a Christian trusts God for, for God knows what is best for His children.

The second example of the relationship between man’s faith and God’s sovereign workings is Matthew 21:22. What is that we as Christians are to believe? It is believing in His word to tell us what is best. It is faith that He will give us what is best, not only for our lives, but also what will bring Him the most glory according to His redemptive-historical purposes. If we pray for someone’s healing or for someone’s financial well-being and God does not deliver, we must not assume that the promises of this verse failed. Rather, we must trust that the healing or financial well-being is not part of God’s larger plan that is ultimately for our good. Everything is done to conform a believer to Christlikeness, which is part of the sanctification process, and the theology in these two verses support that doctrine as well.

The “ask and you shall receive” is therefore not a formula for health and wealth as many speculate from a superficial reading of the texts. Rather, it is the Lord’s command to His children to pray in faith according to His will, and not from their own selfish motives. If they pray according to God’s instruction, God answers their prayers because He acts in conjunction with their prayers in the outworking of His sovereign plans.