context is local la, bro.. aiyo..
U here talking local/generally nonUS or only US?

U wanna bring in US stuff, let's talk Vanguard, Charles Swabb, ETFs la

BTC & altcoins also kena raped/hacked leh
Then kena Forked this/that and more forking..

Gold? kena rob
hm.. rage only lor

BTW, MY got THOUSANDS of mutual funds meh..

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 19 2017, 04:10 PM

er.. what Ramjade said is "correct-er"

By structure/law - PRS can be SWITCHED between INTER-fund houses
Thus, dont need to redeem/sell from PubMut AND buy from FSM

However, pain as hell la the process & time
even within FSM itself, i SWITCHED from AffinHwang Growth to AmPRS REITs took... oh gawd.. + paperwork...
Not FSM's fault - it's the structure/flow for PRS SWITCHING between fund houses.

Just sharing "painful" experience - do-able but urgh..

Aiya - went into good AH Growth
THEN as things progressed, Asset Allocation went too heavy into normal stocks/biz equities ma, thus wanted more REITs/RE equities exposure
AND
that time, everyone and their dog was running away from REITs coz Fed this/that (said to be increasing %). Remember?

I didnt SWITCH recently.. in fact, i saw a JUMP in my returns pa because of the "buy low". Anyhow, that's just icing on the cake - main reason is for more exposure to RE equities (my actual vs planned).

No right / wrong ya, just following my own steps/plans

between Ramjade's hoarding VS your opportunity cost... i personally think an in-between is the best-est via Asset Allocation with a band allowing fluctuations before FORCED rebalancing, say 20% of planned %. eg. if planned = 33%, then i'll only forcibly rebalance if it runs up to 40% or falls to 26% (ie 33%+/- (20% *33%)

WHILE waiting for the above to happen, i just keep nibbling like grocery shopping lor
eg.
like grocery shopping - i need to buy milk powder, rice, veggie, meat
if prices/cost sama je, buy just enough lor, save my cash
if prices of milk powder lelong 20% off, buy 3 to 6 months worth lor - can store ma + WILL USE/need it anyway. Then the next several months, don't buy lor
if fish per kg VS chicken per kg cost less, buy more fish for meat lor
etc etc.

ya ya - may be too simplistic method i use BUT it works for me coz it's so simple to EXECUTE.
Just thinking out loud - no absolute right/wrong in investments ya

PS
To answer your Q on how many times in one life time the OFFER comes..
i'm now 45 and i've been offered deep discount twice in MY (1997-1998 Currency Crisis + 2008 Credit crunch), US (2000 tech bubble pop + 2008 credit crunch) and one time je for WORLD lelong during 2008 credit crunch.
not 1 lifetime over yet... touch wood, touch wood - thus, more to come..

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 29 2017, 01:23 PM

the more things change, the more things stay the same

Clarifications - U trading or investing?
If one doesn't know what's the difference, better be clear first the difference
THEN use the right tool or vehicle, and method(s) - trading <> investing, like herbivore <> omnivore

Just a thought - no absolute right/wrong ya, just be aware of what U want to do and choose the right tools/methods.

yup - in summary/big pix, U understand the difference between investing (buy, track/monitor & hold with longer term intentions & capabilities like >3 years. Personally, i take it as >10 years)
Vs
trading (buy / sell turnover much faster - depending on what method U using, can be daily day trader or months swing trader or etc etc.)

If U understand the above
AND Equity-based UTs with their various charges (front load, back load, mgt fees, etc.),
most folks wouldn't trade them - more lucrative (cost & profits) to trade stocks, options, forex, property flipping, etc.

then of course, there are some expert trades here that do use trade UTs and if U decide that's the way for UTs for yourself, then get in touch with these expert traders of UTs by PMing or posting here with theirname to trigger them

Just a thought - no absolute right/wrong ya

"expert" ppl AssUme-d mar
eg. unfortunately some investors may run from energy fund to ANOTHER energy fund...
let it go lor (queue Frozen's theme song )

also, if one jumps out just because down x% for y years WITHOUT any other data consideration.. that one = investor or main tikam?
IMHO - ignore lor

just thinking out lout - no absolute right/wrong ya

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 4 2017, 11:04 AM

iKuli - no fame to de-fame

momma told me "if no one bitches about U OR U have no enemy, U living your life wrong / have no principles to stand for"
i stupid, follow what momma taught me

<adding fuel to fire>
ahem.. up to 250K per bank per person only
ie. even if one has 1M in 5 accounts in Bank A, through 5 branches, only up to 250K insured

so spread lor
ie. 250K in bank A self a/c +250K in bank A spouse a/c +250K in bank B self a/c +250K in bank B spouse a/c +etc.

if our fellow forumer sooooo worried, can do with FSM +do with eUT/POEMS +do with fund house direct, +etc

just a logic check on "many people"

If i've a car loan and/or a home loan
AND i purposely chose to invest $100 or $1K or $10K per month into mutual funds INSTEAD of paying down the debts faster,
am i investing with borrowed $?

just pondering things may be so obvious, it isn't.
no absolute right/wrong ya, just thinking weird stuff.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 7 2017, 09:52 PM

Unsettling? it depends on how on perceives it
eg.
i'd rather look at it as a shopping experience like:
a. Sale 20% off! 50% off!
vs
b. Stock Shortage - price added/up 30%

I'll stock up EXTRA during (a.)
and
buy less OR even sell off some to the needy/greedy if i've loaded up my freezer / store room during (a.)

The SITUATION is the same
The RESPONSE differs, due to differing or altered PERCEPTION

Just a thought, no absolute right/wrong
there are those making millions by only "buying high and selling higher", i'm more pedestrian uncle buying groceries - meat, carbo & fibre (asset allocation)

hmm.. IMHO, outsourcing services/execution does not outsource responsibility.
then again, seems like the norm these days, no fiduciary responsibility even at most (not all, luckily) professionals' end (ie. CFPs, CFAs, agents/consultants, etc.)



This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 10 2017, 11:38 AM

Hey YKLooi.

I'm unsure how's your total / holistic approach and what is EPF's role in your "investment team's roster" thus can help much. However, if i may, i'd like to share what role EPF will play when i'm "mostly" retired - ie. living on trades & investments, to open it up for constructive criticism / thoughts on "how to make better", if U and fellow forumers in our age bracket be willing

1. Big picture asset allocation will be:
1/3 in Fixed Income (cash, FD, flexi-mortgage, EPF, bonds if worthwhile crash happens for bond market)
+ 1/3 in Businesses (including trading & general stocks investments)
+ 1/3 in properties (including REITs)

2. Control variable:Fixed Income
a. EPF will be part of my Fixed Income "players" since die die 2.5%pa returns and averages about 5%pa in the long run

b. I'll hold cash/FD/Flexi-morgage (also part of Fixed Income) to live on for "1 year's expenses +3 month's expenses as buffer"
then every year reload from EPF & trades manually +dividends automatically.
Note - i'm planning to live on 3%pa to max 4%pa of the total asset allocation, ie about half of expected average total returns pa. Hope la heheh

c. IF at any time, Fixed Income's % hits >=39% of asset allocation (ie. ran from planned by 20%+/- of 1/3), that should mean there was a worthwhile equities crash - past tense, was, ie. not "crashing". Thus, worthwhile to buy into equities - execute REBALANCE

d. IF at any time, Fixed Income's % hits <= 27% of asset allocation (ie. ran from planned by 20%+/- of 1/3), that should mean that equities have ran up a lot OR i've overspent , need to rebalance and/or look/ into my spending and replan where possible.

3. Reason for all the above:
To have enough for a simple life (not eat Alpo, nor grass) + give back big when i'm gone (thus cannot "spend down" assets totally)

Whatcha think?
Somewhere along the lines as yours?
Any big logical holes to plug?
Any & All constructive criticism, with (3.) in mind (have the goal in mind, 7 Habits ) is greatly appreciated

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 16 2017, 10:56 AM

Danke danke for asking / clarifying - makes me think clearly too, to respond clearly

Logic / reasoning for allocation of 1/3 to properties / REITs:
1. What's the reason/thinking behind allocating 1/3 to properties/REITs?
Major asset category allocation.
ie traditionally it's just Fixed Income: Equities
However, IMHO, different category of Equities perform very differently - properties/REITs is more of cash-flow investing and "some" capital gains (inflation basis).

Thus, in the context of the 3 categories, it's akin to having:
a. Goal keeper & defenders: Cash+FD+FlexiMortgage & EPF/bonds
b. MidFielders: Properties & REITs
c. Strikers: Running businesses /trading & "normal" shares in businesses

Some other folks think of it as 3 baskets of:
a. Self usage
b. Cash flow investment assets
c. Capital growth investment assets
Same difference kua

2. Your allocation in fixed income can provide the retirement income cash flow, while the allocation in business provide growth.
If you're planning on using 3-4% only, you will not even deplete your epf(if you go in 100%)
Heheh - expectation of fluctuations low for Fixed Income is low but total average returns also low - averaging 4%pa (Average of 3%pa Cash,FD,FlexiMortgage & 5%pa EPF/Bonds). All returns are rounded down +all expenses rounded up, prudence/chickenshit concept

Thus, if based on 4%pa average returns for total Fixed Income VS 3%pa to 4%pa draw-down for retirement:
a. can deplete leh, with just 1 or 2 sudden kaka
b. there will be very little, if any, re-investments, thus, inflation how to tackle?,thus will deplete leh
c. my Monte Carlo + standard deviation sim for the above is for my wife & i living up to 100 - if kaput earlier, no problem - no need to eat grass/Alpo. Worse is kaput later than 100.. get what i mean?

Again - i may be at the extreme-er end of prudence / chickenshit concept heheh - seen too many kaka happening to older folks that weren't prepared to re-investing during older age, like good old GST which whacks even retirees. IMHO, GST to current workers/earners - can rebalance lar but retirees..

3. By the way, what's the minimum portfolio size for your plan to be workable? If you don't hit that sum, where/how would you tweak?
RM1.6M based on my expected retirement lifestyle of RM4K pm in current value.
ie.
($4K pm expenses *12 months = 1 year's expenses) / 3% draw down = $1.6M

IF i don't hit that sum, then reduce my expenditure planned down to a minimum of $2Kpm of current value lor - survivable with everything paid off +a new cheap car/fridge/washing machine on/off - slightly painful but do-able. Old Chinese saying - Horse die, get down & walk

Note - i'm expecting TOTAL average returns to be 6%pa, thus spend half, re-invest half (to beat inflation & have something worthwhile to give back when kaput)
Why 6%pa?
1/3 * 4%pa Fixed Income = 1.33%pa
+ 1/3 *8%pa Business, Trading, "normal" stocks/equities =2.66%pa
+ 1/3 *6%pa Properties / REITs = 2%pa
= 5.99% total average pa

Hope the above is logical - please feel free to throw logical bricks/batts at it
Note - i'm a pessimistic optimist, ie i believe there can be a better tomorrow by taking into consideration of kakas that can happen

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 16 2017, 02:33 PM

Thank U for your thoughts & feedback bro.

On the "business mind" - same here. I'm a typical nerd, thus my biz is investing & trading only heheh.

I've sold off my rental properties already - similar pains as U, mine's mostly from lousy building management OR questionable joint-management folks.

However, i'm always game for properties again if the value Vs cost is right or worthwhile. Anything proven long term vehicles & legit is fair target to me if it's for high (Value/Cost) - even gold, which i treat as just another type of currency.

Currently using UT as a "shotgun" for emerging markets (not specific MY UT for me) as i'm focusing more on developed markets' & MY's stocks, thus "outsourcing" for emerging markets - not smart enough to look at so many things

hmm..

1. if you significantly exceed that sum(say 16mil port), maintain plan?
yeah, more investment assets doesn't mean i've to taper off nor spend it all
IMHO, simple living is good for the world & one's spirit + just more to give back when both my partner & i kaput

2. Monte Carlo sim spreadsheet
hehhe - don't sweat to hit 0% probability of out-of-money too much.
As long as one falls within 1SD or standard deviation, good probability not to die with $0 liao.
Those hitting 5%+/- probability of running out of $ is already in the 2SD+/- of "winning" already
AND
i hope U aren't using 100 years old as a kaput target like me, i'm a pessimistic optimist ya

3. REITs vs Properties
Yup, IMHO properties' game is either in option/flipping or leverage.
BUT.. i'm doing the same with REITs - leveraging too, via my FlexiMortgage account's accumulated prepayment whenever there are worthwhile REITs.
Logic = flexi-mortage rate 4.5%pa VS REIT's expected net DY%pa (even if discounted 20%) 7%-8%pa. Why not? Of course i don't "all in" lar

AmREITs that i + PRS version - doing quite well for me as i went in when doom/gloom of rate hikes was heavy. From this thread/topic + the SG/MY REITs thread, U can gather when <-- the only thing on topic in this thread SORRY MODS going everywhere..

Properties, IMHO, more reliant on good building management & non-dodgy joint-committee/management
VS
Hunting a good deal or having top real-estate agents
Coz of Internet + web tools/sites

Heheh - bro, with so many variables AND years AND average returns VS deviations from returns.. + yearly spending & inflation...
that's why i did up my own Monte Carlo simulation to see what's the probability of dying with $0 (or reverse view of probability of NOT dying with $0 if minus it from 100%)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Oc0k5dqW...ms0RWowTjQ/view

Hope it helps.
Poke me here (hope Mods dont go native on us for OT though still relevant as part of using FSM/UT how) or PM me if U need ideas/a hand on using the spreadsheet

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 17 2017, 09:17 AM

oops - multi-posting, my apologies - deleted

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 17 2017, 09:16 AM

sorry to burst ya bubble - ASB loans
my colleague bought $200K ASB via CIMB ASB loan several years back
only need to worry about first year's +/- loan payment
subsequent years tidur je coz the returns can cover

but but i dont suggest doing such if one is intending to buy a home since the loan shows up in CCRIS (from my understanding - stands to be corrected, since i'm no local majority, i cant do & see in my CCRIS)