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 Blotter Spot Test Oil Analysis:VOA Helix HX7 5W30, 16,286 km blotter Shell Helix Ultra 5W40

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TSzeng
post Feb 18 2017, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ Feb 17 2017, 10:44 PM)
Hi, seems like different sampling method results in different appearance . On toilet paper it ended up as clear brown circle, but on printing paper it came out as dark circle (not dark spot btw). Not sure if this is final appearance, or Will it change again after 48hrs?
Anyway, feel free to comment. Thanks everyone.

Car make: Nissan AD Resort 1.6L
Engine: GA16 carburetted
Odometer: 281912km
EO: Duron XL 0w30
Clocked mileage: 10912km
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Thank you Chemistry for the preliminary pictures.
It debunks nonsense like:
a) ...your oil is clear, it isn't doing its job in suspending contaminants;
b).... after 48 hours the contaminants in the oil sink to the bottom and stay suspended there leaving a cleaner oil as shown;
c) ...Your eyes definitely cannot see metal particles etc etc .....
spewing unsubstantiated rubbish here while we are on another type(or method) of oil analysis among the many currently being practised in the industry!

Just as variations in UOA titration methodology, vigorousness, temperature , time duration etc in better regulated laboratory practices can affect and influence negatively on results and/or conclusions ...... hence the need for consisstency in paper medium (as printer/ letter head papers etc) and pictures after 24/48 hours etc is equally helpful in consistency .....
Yes, it changes in the first 48 hours or so......
Awaiting the 48 hour picture . dry.gif






TSzeng
post Feb 18 2017, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 18 2017, 10:00 PM)
So... I just pull out the dip stick, and let it drop onto paper? I've got some, mh, 150-200 mg higher quality printing paper that I'm going to use.
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Yes, let it drop onto the paper or let it touches the paper whichever you feel comfortable and consistent.
150-200 mg paper would be good.
Try observe how the blots changes during the first 48 hours, and upload pictures for comment, meanwhile noting down OLM percentage left at OCI. tongue.gif

TSzeng
post Feb 19 2017, 07:04 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 19 2017, 04:34 AM)
OLM?
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Oops ..... GM's terminology of Oil Life Monitor (given in percentage), VW calls it some other name ...... that indicates the time by the car engine when oil change is due.
This enables a comparison of OLM reading against Blotter Spot Test picture/condition or physical visual inspection.

TSzeng
post Feb 19 2017, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ Feb 19 2017, 04:26 PM)
48hrs done.
[attachmentid=8501995]
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Thanks, Chemistry.

My quick amateurish guess, subject to challenge by the experienced, hands-on AND learned members........
and being overthrown ..... hehehe brows.gif

a1)The Centre Zone (assuming 8 mm diameter at centre/point of blot deposit ) is transparent/translucent meaning not opaque and slightly grayish indicating deposits of (heaviest portion of) high molecular weight rubbish like combustion carbonaceous byproducts/insolubles/wear metals Fe Cu /resins etc etc .

a2)Good news is..... this 8 mm Centre Zone is not sharp and clear;it's not opaque; and colour is not very dark carbon black (hitam manis) and 8 mm perimeter line is not clear and sharp and shining yet.

b1)The Diffusion Zone of ( Outer Diameter max at say, 30 mm ) AND (Inner Diameter of 8 mm) .......
actually it is an annulus enclosing the Centre Zone ......
is generally lighter colour than Centre Zone .....
because the dispersants in oils take lighter weight rubbish like combustion byproducts/resins etc (of lower molecular weight) in an outward direction as the oil is travelling/seeping away from the Centre Zone.

b2)Good news is this Diffusion Zone is not darkish and its expanded Outer Diameter OD the bigger the better (in relation to the size of Centre Zone ), assuming a known quantity (in drops?) is constant.

c) Refering to postings in my Bitog thread, your 48 hour Blot Spot is what they call 'there is no structures' or 'the structures are very light and mild' ...........
meaning the used oil sample had been holding up well, whatever its mileage of xx km, and is still in continuing serviceable condition.

d) SonofJoe would call it in the midst of Phase 1, whereby he too commented (in primary/secondary stages of ... i.e in my classification )Phase 2 is deemed good.

e) I would 'speculate' that after you add another few thousand kilometres of use in this 10,912 km sample , 'some' members from Bitog might still classify it as Phase 1, though another may say it's Phase 2.

f) Several purely 'technical' and 'physics' commmentaries by several experienced members from Bitog (who had actually personnally do and evaluate the 'job' by their own physical 'hands and fingers' whilst referencing materials in the web .......
may form a solid basis for you to consider and making assessments and finally making your own call.
Do consider and just take comments from 'arm chair' commentators carefully (to avoid being confused) , and in certain cases, with a pinch of salt....... typically in www ....

g) One thing is certain, your engine has no glycol contamination problem and no severe fuel dilution problem, as yet.

So, should you replace this 10912 km used fullsyn Duron XL 0W30 immediately ????
Well , that's your call ..... adopting/abandoning certain 'opinions' and 'suggestions' along the way.

I had been keeping going ... on and on ....
until a day/mileage where I'm not comfortable with the onset and appearance of a 'very sharp and dark black hitam manis and opaque' Centre Zone ......
which I believe I had yet to see it in my 12238 km sample of semisyn Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40.

To each his own !!

Just my 2 sen sweat.gif

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 19 2017, 06:28 PM
TSzeng
post Feb 20 2017, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ Feb 19 2017, 06:47 PM)
On another note, Duron XL 0w30 is actually a synthetic blend HDEO. And yes, before posting here I already planned next change when this oil completed 12000km. My friends asked me don't be too stingy with EO, you know what, this Duron XL has been in service since December 2015.
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Sorry for misrepresenting XL 0W30 as fullsyn oils.
Generally dual rated HDEO oils is more stout than PCMO oils, I believe.

Hahaha ......> 14 months usage ........
so much for the myth here that engine oil must be replaced at not more than 12 months.

At 12000 km OCI, appreciate if you could upload here its Blotter Spot Tests pictures for comparisons. dry.gif

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 21 2017, 12:23 PM
TSzeng
post Feb 23 2017, 09:33 PM

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Semi Synthetic Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 A3B4 SL,
in 2007 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3VE,
13,000 km..... and going .......
Attached Image
2 hour blot attached.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 23 2017, 10:00 PM
TSzeng
post Feb 25 2017, 10:55 PM

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Passsing 13,000 km ...... and soldiering on .... towards 8500 miles (13,600 km) OCI.
Quartz Energy 10W40 semi synthetics in Avanza K3VE 1.3L engine..
48 hour blot spot.
Attached Image
TSzeng
post Mar 10 2017, 04:48 PM

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Update: 13673 km and going..
Total Quartz Energy 10W40.
72 hour Blot Spot.

Attached Image
TSzeng
post Mar 24 2017, 01:21 PM

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Update: 14218 km (8886 miles) ...... and going.
Semi synthetic Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 in service .
66 hour Blotter Spot.

Looks healthy .....

Attached Image
TSzeng
post Mar 25 2017, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Mar 24 2017, 04:20 PM)
Do you still remember when you did the oil change?

Yes, this Quartz semisyn was replaced in week 1 of August 2016 .... so till date is about 7.5 months.
I earlier mistook it as Apr 2016, which was for 1994 Wira 1.5 using HDEO 15W40.
TSzeng
post Mar 26 2017, 07:38 PM

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I had been monitoring UOA's of fully synthetic ; semi synthetic and mineral oils in America ......
and read-up on Blotter Spot tests method online .....
and hence pushing for longer OCI's which may be deemed as 'uncharted waters' .....
as a contribution to lowyat forum. blush.gif

Edit:As of today, touching 14900 km ...... and going.

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 26 2017, 07:45 PM
TSzeng
post May 22 2017, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ May 20 2017, 10:20 PM)
Hi, finally done 12k km.

Car make: Nissan AD Resort 1.6L
Engine: GA16 carburetted
EO used: Duron XL 0w30 (API CH4/SJ) synthetic blend
Mileage clocked: 12707km

[attachmentid=8832670]
[attachmentid=8832671]
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Not bad at 12k km.

TSzeng
post May 22 2017, 09:52 PM

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Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 A3B4 SL semi synthetic;
Oil change at 16,593 km;
in Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3VE engine.
9 months as at May 2017.

48 hour Blotter spot:
Attached Image

Colour at oil change is not black or gray, but bright brownish and red hue.

Add:Attached Image

This post has been edited by zeng: May 23 2017, 10:17 PM
TSzeng
post May 22 2017, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ May 22 2017, 10:34 PM)
I am changing new oil this week  biggrin.gif
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Kindly observe colour of drained oil as used HDEO oil tends to be blackish or grayish, though still serviceable.
Btw, your engine comes with timing belt and not timing chain right?


TSzeng
post May 23 2017, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ May 22 2017, 11:05 PM)
OK, will ask the foreman to keep the used Oil Filter for me  biggrin.gif 
GA16 uses timing chain.
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My understanding of timinig chain is it shears oil viscosity in use, probably up to 10,000 km or so.
With 'life time' timing chain in my Avanza K3VE, xW40 is my go-to oil, among other operating conditions.
TSzeng
post May 24 2017, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ May 24 2017, 04:33 PM)
Done oil change just now. Labour RM15.
Observed colour of drained oil, it was dark brown.
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UOA's of black coloured (including those with dark hue) used oils on Bitog do often indicate continuing serviceability of said oil with good/low metal wear rates, Flash point, TBN, insolubles etc.
Plus your uploading of Blotter spot tests before this, I would speculate this dark brown coloured used oil is probably still serviceable.
Engine varnish, if any, in itself is not a sign of definite engine failure.

TSzeng
post May 24 2017, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ May 23 2017, 03:30 PM)
Most of the oil shearing are at the high pressure areas like the cam lobes, valve heads/rocker, crank bearings, crank journal, etc. If don't explore much rev above 4000rpm, most of the oil degradation is from the depletion of the additives, not really due to oil shear.
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Agree with you.....
and timing chains and turbos do contribute to viscosity shearing.

QUOTE
As you know, mechanical shearing occurs at several common locations within an engine and it can differ from engine to engine based on the hardware design, In my opinion, most of the shearing occurs in the valve train and the timing chain/gears.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/valve-train-and-...ing-chain-wear/

This post has been edited by zeng: May 24 2017, 06:52 PM
TSzeng
post May 28 2017, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(bos cuci bos @ May 26 2017, 03:13 PM)
so what is the conclusion ?
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Conclusion on ..?
TSzeng
post May 28 2017, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(bos cuci bos @ May 28 2017, 03:17 PM)
so does that mean Quartz Energy 10W40 can be used up to 16k ?
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Without knowing your engine type, its mechanical conditions, your driving pattern etc , my short answer is no .....
assuming you're in the typical league of early oil change (like mineral oil for < 5000 km; semisyn oil for <8000 km and fullsyn <10000 km) as Insurance , peace of mind bla bla bla.
Heck, most of you guy's oils are without ACEA A3B4 specifications! ..... never mind it's fully synthetics.

Do note Quartz Energy 10W40 has favourable specs in ACEA A3B4, among others like API, VW and MB for components protection.

I've stacks of fullsyn like Shell Ultra 5W40 and Mobil 1 0W40 ..... likely OCI in this (Japanese) engine would be 18000-20000 km...... in times to come.

This post has been edited by zeng: May 28 2017, 05:11 PM
TSzeng
post Aug 15 2017, 08:09 PM

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Round B.
Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40.
Avanza 1.3L K3-VE
5087 km in use.

72 hour Blotter Spot Test




Attached Image
... and going.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 17 2017, 11:40 PM

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