I don't think SP&K are the only ones. Got a few other stories from other online sellers that are bringing in PS4 Pros but are also just keeping quiet. They just say will check and never reply after that.

I'm curious about this. I preordered a Pro last month from a relatively new seller Gadget Geeks last month. The Pro still haven't arrived and earlier on the seller was willing to keep communications open. But recently when I started asking for a refund, they completely shut up. I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt because of shortages and holidays but I noticed they delisted their Pro and opened a new phone shop in Ampang.

Wanted to get people's opinion here, as I'm thinking of making a police report soon if they are not open to communicating about giving me back a refund after 1. changing the terms of the order (US unit to Asian) and 2. missing the ETA and not communicating but deciding to go dark and still push forward with a separate business.

Also, I know fully well that my deposit is already burnt so this is a warning to others.

Yeah, I'm one of those people. So I sold my PS4 since October and I've missed out on all the big games at the end of the year. By the time will have stock will have missed about half a years worth of games.

That would... optimally be the best way. But because I am still a student, at the time I sold off my PS4 to fund for the PS4 Pro. Honestly, it's my fault for underestimating the demand for the Pro because there were so many reports of hardware issues and lack of noticeable upgrades to older games without a 4K TV that I had hoped that others would give up on it.

Personally, as someone who got burned by the pre-orders and can't get his money back and not having a PS4 Pro or a PS4 currently. I would say from researching 4K TVs with HDR connection issues and other multiple other tech issues (screens not turning on, 8/10bit HDR support, hardware overheating, fan sound too loud), I think at this point there's a lot of buyer's remorse for the Pro. While not everyone who has one in their hand right now feels this way or experiences the issues that I've mentioned. I think as a console that is meant to be as plug and play as possible, the hurdle to get the best possible experience that makes use of ALL the features of the Pro, I feel is not worth it at the moment or is as big an upgrade as many claim to see. I could quote every Digital Foundry episode that mentions the Pro having minor to significant improvements for certain games.

If I were in your shoes, I would buy a Slim and use the difference to get as many games as possible. Maybe wait like a year or two for the games to fully take advantage of Pro support or for Sony to force developers to unify their improvements into options like how Rise of the Tomb Raider does it than minor improvements like 4K UI for Overwatch. So unless you have a game that is an improvement and your TV can take advantage of said improvements. I recommend saving money and getting the Slim.

Again, this comes from a frustrated consumer that got burnt badly by sellers taking advantage of the shortage and desperation. So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

PS Plus functions
For all 3 systems:
- discounts on the PlayStation Store and sometimes early access to demos and betas (earlier on the discounts were a bigger incentive to get Plus but recent years with Flash Sales (once a month) and weekly deals, the discounts are not as much as before, there are still some good deals but I feel not as good anymore)
- 2 free games (for each system for a total of 6) every month* (sometimes more as certain games are cross-buy amongst PSVita and PS4 versions, e.g. Titan Souls this month is cross buy for the PS4 and PS Vita, so you get both versions free this month). Some have complained that the Plus games are not as good anymore, but I feel it's just individuals wanting certain games to be free and not using it as an opportunity to try out games they might not have tried if they paid for it.

For PS3:
- save upload to the cloud
- automatic backup and trophy sync
- can download patches without loading the game (need to load the game initially so that the system knows to get the patch later on)

For PS Vita:
- save upload to the cloud**

For PS4:
- required for multiplayer (not all games have multiplayer or require Plus for multiplayer, exceptions are games like FFXIV which has a monthly subscription of it's own, usually they will note this fact on the game case or the online store if you need it)
- save upload to the cloud


* the free games are yours to "play" for as long as you have subscription, once your subscription expires the system will lock the games and you can't access them until you have resubscribed (sometimes you need to redownload the game or reactivate your games to your account, there's a specific wording that I can't remember cause I don't have a PS4 in front of me to check)
** for the Vita if you deleted your game off your memory card, the save file gets deleted together. So unlike the PS3 and PS4 where you could keep the save file on the hard drive, because of the limited space they decided to attach the save file to the game. Unless you transfer the whole game to the PC to keep the save file, it's much smaller and convenient to use Plus to upload the save file to the cloud.

I'm ok with paying for the Pro as well and it's noticeable to me how fps will affect gameplay. But I think my fears was realized just a week or two before the launch (and after deposit), that games that are not patched will play the same as before when Mark Cerny told reporters that the system will turn off half of the system if the games were not patched to take advantage of the extra hardware. So it was not like a PC with more GPU or CPU where more specs meant better performance, it still required developers to patch games to use them.

So having a PS4 earlier, I had hoped games like Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and The Witcher 3 would run better with better specs but because of how the system works. They will never be patched and they will play the same on the old PS4s. And because Pro support is optional and not mandatory, many developers choose not to support games that have already been released except for a few of the bigger companies because they have the manpower like Square Enix. Even then like how I mentioned above, their improvements are not always clear. One could just be higher resolution UI like Overwatch and nothing else was improved or it could be wide sweeping options like Rise of the Tomb Raider where you get to choose from higher resolution, higher fps or mix of both. But coming from PC background, I wished that Sony mandated every developer to give options like these instead of weird crap like The Last Guardian needing to set your PS4 resolution to 1080P to get the best frame rate.

Now I'm not saying that these issues won't be improved as developers get feedback and adjust. But for now, unless you had a 4K TV that works with the PS4 Pro, with 10bit HDR support AND had a GAME MODE that reduces latency, to get the "best" performance is just a hassle and I find it super disappointing that 1080p has more or less similar experience to before unless developers choose to update the game and you don't have a choice to choose the "improvements" that you want.

Again, like I mentioned before. I was burnt many times. And maybe if I had it in my hands I wouldn't make as much noise. But having the free time, since I can't game. Going though all the games that have gotten updates late last year felt minimal or some do it downright atrociously (see: The Last of Us Remastered and Battlefield 1) where the developers can't decide on giving better graphics at the cost of frame rate or frame rate with slightly better graphics due to Sony's dumb arbitrary PS4 Pro improvements list.

I think even Gamespot has stopped updating this list. For them, I believe the hype around the Pro has died down and no longer brings in as much traffic. Also, they aren't a tech news/performance focused site unless there's a game that is night and day difference between the PS4/Pro which, by Sony's mandate cannot be.

I think digital foundry's list is still the site to live by for performance changes as they focus primarily on performance/graphical comparisons.

From what I understand, it depends on how good that 4K HDR TV is at upscaling the output from the old PS4. There is some HDR on the old PS4 but it's not the same HDR that is on the PS4 Pro. So it depends on what TV you are using that can answer this question, without knowing the TV, you cannot tell if it will support the HDR function that the older PS4 has. It might upscale the output, but everything else depends.

Games that have not been patched with HDR support won't have HDR support if you use it on a HDR TV.

Here's a short list of games confirmed to have HDR or are coming soon.

Locoroco
NBA 2K17
Parappa The Rapper
Patapon
The Elder Scrolls Online
The Last of Us Remastered
The Witness
Final Fantasy XV
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Fifa 17
Hustle Kings
infamous: First Light
infamous: Second Son
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
Mantis Burn Racing
Ratchet and Clank
World of Tanks

What you could try is to use the "Remote Play" function, it's not the best way of playing... sometimes got lag. But if you have a good enough router and put the laptop and system near each other will feel seamless enough unless you play fighting games.

While I don't disagree with anything you said here. But I can't assume that everyone knows enough to make an informed purchase and setup. I do game capture and video editing part time so I deal with HDMI cables and settings everyday. But to someone else who is going to buy one without research buys a UHD TV from a few years ago might not know using 4:4:4 color scheme will cause lag and should use YUV instead. It's just a messy jargon-filled world of TV/monitors that all the advertisement tell you to get a PS4 Pro and you are playing in 4K. But is it native 4K? Upscaled 4K? All PS4s have HDR but HDR on the OG PS4 and Pro uses different standards and different HDMI cables. 1.4a vs 2.0 for 4K + HDR, etc. Just messy and not clearly communicated. Just buy the most expensive item.

Will there be a sale? If you're using US store? Nope. If you're on the Asia store, most likely. Will it have the game you want? Depends on the game you want, some games go on sale more often than others. I think every month there's a Telltale game on sale. Every quarter Square Enix or Bethesda will have sale. If it's an Activision game then you are S.O.L.

I think that's the misconception a lot of people had about the Pro. Even I did until near the launch when Mark Cerny outlined in an interview how the Pro would turn off half of it's processing and GPU to be compatible with games that have not been patched to support the Pro. I feel that a lot of us looked at the Xbox One S with it's minor upgrades and ran games slightly better and thought, the PS4 with double the hardware should be able to do much more then. Sadly the reality is that unless the games are patched to support the Pro, then you might, not will, see an improvement.

I will add though, that all games if you play on a 4K HDR TV. If the 4K upscaler is good on the TV, and with the PS4 Pro set to 4K mode (or 2160p whatever), you will get a 4K image. But that's like how you played 720p games on a PS3 gets upscaled to 1080p on a 1080p TV. You have the details of a 1080p game on a 4K screen. Some will tell you that that's an improvement, others will say they can see missing details.

For you, if you are interested in FPS games, then you are in luck with the Pro. Many of the fps games, Battlefield 1, Infinite Warfare, Modern Warfare Remastered and even Black Ops 3 got Pro patches. Do they work the best that they should? Many will argue that Battlefield 1 Pro improvements had it's up and down. But if you can afford a Pro, I wouldn't say don't get it. Just know what you are looking for and if it's worth your money.

I think the answer is

1) It's too expensive to import R1 games when it's cheaper to have Asia region.

2) No one cares (except me and you)


Mostly 1. But 2 is pretty damn close too.

I will agree that it's mostly about the chase. You could get it cheaper sometimes on the PSN store. But finally tracking a game that you want down that no one in the country has for a good price is a great feeling. I bought KH 1.5 Remix 4 times just to get one without the Spanish on the R1 cover.

I'll post it in the collector thread when I find pictures of my collection. Will leave this thread for the PS4 discussion.

What's life without some challenges?

Sorry for double post, didn't see this before posting previous post.

This post has been edited by NixiN-7hieN: Jan 6 2017, 05:27 PM

Would love to collect Jap games but ever since the introduction of Cero rating system, they have the most censorship outside of Germany and Australia. There is still fan service and cover art is usually the best though.

I had a similar issue when I first got my PS4. What you could try is see if you can connect through LAN cable. On wireless there's a weird issue with firewall and port forwarding. But through a wired connection it was fine.

But if it's already wired, then will need to try another game to see if it's just PvZ or other games as well. PvZ I remember not being great at connecting to games.