Hi, We r renting at rm1k per month. The farm is just beside old coastal road in Kuala Kubu Baru. The lease length we signed is 10 years. I believe in Kuala Kubu Baru, as a newbie, we have to go through the go-to people in order to lease the land. As far as I understand, it is the only way to go. If any of u are interested, i can intro the right people for you. A lot of lands for lease and sale there.

To my limited knowledge, there is a certification for Organic chicken farming. Having said that, we've yet to go and done our homework with DOA or with any of the suppliers yet. Still in the midst of land clearing and getting the local Orang Asli to build their infamous bamboo structures.

Our direct neighbour to the right is a dilapidated land that has not been worked on since the 60s. The local land council guy told us an interesting story that the land belongs to a Communist in the 60s and around 40 to 50 commandos raided the land and he just left. Hence the govt caveat the land and it belongs to the govt, unworked until today. To the right of that land, is a durian farm.So maybe that abandoned land could be the buffer you're talking about.

You are right, the 5.5acre is not big once i minus off the fish pond in the middle, and 3 catchment/ fry pond accompanying the big pond. The workable land we foresee is around the pond which is not big in itself. Then we've got around 2.95 acre on the hillslope with very old durian and rubber tree, could use for tree planting. gaharu comes to mind, seems to be the craze now.

Due to many partners, the ideas on the table is quite unrealistically numerous. We'll probably end up focusing on a few. But if the homestay/ camping ground were to materialize, then variety of animals and agri are necessary..

On the organic chicken part, I take my inspiration from DQ farm. Alot of good info here for those that have not come across this farm in Bentong:

http://dqfarm.blogspirit.com/
http://www.dqcleanchicken.com/

He's actually my uncle on my mom's side. However he is quite elusive and well, just not very, how do i put it, responsive. Unless u're from the uni, authorities or from the media, u'd be lucky to be granted a visit the farm. I've only been to the farm when i was 10 years old and i've in my 30s now. He's started with organic chicken since those days and have done some pretty out of the box stuff.

From his blog posts, I've gathered going organic needs one to be attentive and creative and most importantly to create a sort of equilibrium type environment where the ecosystem complements one another. Also organic chicken are very prone to diseases, so acting fast and acting quick is vital before everything is wiped out. So either you or your staff needs to know what they're doing. Also organic farming tend to have a lot of sudden spot checks from the authorities.

This post has been edited by euthanasia: Oct 17 2014, 02:00 AM

I tried to lease from someone before, but all failed. Cause they only wanna do a 1-2 yrs lease.

Also, when signing a lease, it is not just like tenancy agreement, right? Must you go through a lawyer? I knew many don't wanna rent longer than 3 yrs, cause then it will become a lease, then more complicated.

euthanasia:

You can talk to DQ Farm's head honcho directly about that. As far as I know about him, he is very open and willing to share knowledge, as long as the person receiving knowledge is humble and willing to learn.

They also do contract farming with locals, with buy-back programs too. But you will need to talk with them about it further, since the original plan for the contract farming was to help impoverished families to generate additional income streams.

https://www.facebook.com/DQFarm?fref=ts&ref=br_tf

That is the FB page for DQ Farms. Just reading from their page alone, one can learn a great deal.

*Just a note: they no longer allow people to visit their farms after a bad episode of disease outbreak when visitors refused to follow their sanitation requests. Whether they change that policy in the future, is their prerogative.

What can I plant in between the durian trees? Can I grow some chengal or teak wood in between?

If I wanna grow some forest trees and trees for timber for later use. Where do I buy the trees from? What trees should I plant so that I can cut some for own use? I wanna grow some teak wood, chengal, and more.

lainux:

While there are many manuals out there stating that durians can be inter-cropped with tropical hardwoods like teak, the real question is should they be inter-cropped?

For one, both teak and durians are tropical rainforest species that tend to compete against each other for both nutrients and growth space. More so when cultured together. This strong competition will result in poorer crop performance, which will affect your returns.

That being said, if you are still firm on getting teak seeds, try checking with the Forest Research Institute of Malaysia (FRIM). They usually have seeds, and sometimes even tissue cultured seedlings.

I hope you are aware that although teak does grow very well in Malaysia, you won't be able to get any returns until year 10 or more. At that age, the girth of the wood allows it to be used for making compound furniture items, like doors, cupboards etc.

(Note: Teak wood below 10 years of age are only suited for electric poles, which in Malaysia, is not regularly used.)

Alternatives to hardwoods, you could consider short-term fruits like bananas. Or keep kampung chickens. They scratch up the soil, which allows better soil aeration and nutrient seepage, and they feed on beetle grubs in the soil that damage durian roots. In addition, their manure will add nutrients back to the soil. The only downside is that they will attract cobras.

I will only plant the hardwood trees maybe around the border. Not planting many, and will only cut down when necessary. Yea, I understand that it is a long term return for the hardwoods, but I watched some TV programs that in the pass, people grow their own trees so that the later generation can use it to build their houses. Other than teak, what else can I plant?

Will drop by FRIM for a visit.

Most of the Jati (Teak) planted near our area didn't make it commercially. Most were cut down to make way for other crops. The latest that I saw was 1 month ago. Size were just slightly larger than lamp post.

With you lease of 10 years, maybe you shall need to look into something else. Just my thoughts.

actually it is my land. So, i intend to keep them long till necessary to cut down.

That's great to hear! You are definitely forward looking.

Hmmm.... personally I find teak to be the best option. Other cultivated species include the ironwoods (belian, Indian Rosewood etc.), binuang (Octomeles sumatrana), meranti (Shorea sp.), Kapur (Dryobalanops sp.) etc. You can ask FRIM for further suggestion and give them your specifications. Just keep in mind that most tropical hardwoods are very slow growing, and some may be protected now. Teak is considered the fastest amongst them all.

If you want light hardwood species, which are way faster growing (6-7 years), you might want to consider Kelampayan/Laran. If FRIM suggests to you Acacia species, tell them to fly kite.... the Acacia plantations in Sarawak are all dying off due to disease, and even groups like Ta Ann are clearing off their last remaining Acacia parcels to plant other species.


Aside from FRIM, you can consult with M-Gen Propagation Sdn Bhd. They commercialize tissue culture of tropical hardwoods, and specializes in Kelampayan. Their website is down for maintenance, but you can check out their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Mgen2020



PS: M-Gen also does tissue culture of other plants, including MD2 pineapples.

Yes, commercial culture of teak has high failure rate, simply because not many people realize that teak trees are not acacia or rubber trees.... you can't plant them the same way!

What makes it worse are less than useless extension officers who do not provide all the necessary information to would-be growers... like how teak tree "consciously" avoid contact with each other as they grow, meaning if you plant too high density, they will just be tall and thin. Or how teak roots actually cannot tahan "wet feet" conditions, i.e. too high soil moisture, and their growth will be affected, even leading to death.

Good to learn that. So, would it be better to plant them on a hill slope? My land is hilly.

I saw those trees planted in USJ along jalan kewajipan, they grow quite fast & quite big. Are they any good? Singapore also plant plenty of them.

Good info. I googled all the tree species you mentioned above, most of the trees are really nice, especially shorea. It is like a giant bonsai, tall with small crown. Can you then intercrop shorea with others since it will grow super tall?

I would imagine most of the forest trees can be planted really close to each other right? Cause that it how it is in the forest.

Those few farm that I observed, yes very high density, maybe 5 to 8 feet, yes, super thin. Even on slope.

But then how do they survive in the wild?

Speaking on high density, fruits trees, I read are getting very dense. 1.25 M X 1.25 M. What do you think? Worthwhile to try?

Don't they do thinning after certain years? So that they can start harvesting every X years?

lainux:

Of course you can plant rainforest trees close together... but as I've mentioned before with the case of inter-cropping teak with durians, the real question is "should they?".

I can understand your logic, and I believe that most people would think the same way too. However, what seems like a lot of vegetation in a rainforest, is simply just that: lots of vegetation. There really aren't many trees per unit space, if one really checked thoroughly.

Also, it is worth remembering that in primary rainforests, all those large trees had decades of growth under their belts, which helped create the layering effect seen in the rainforest (ie. canopy layer, understorey layer etc.).

Yes, thinning is practiced on teak plantations. However, please first gain some basic understanding about how trees accumulate nutrients and grow, and then the concept of high density cultures and thinning would be more appreciable. I will try my best to explain here.

Firstly, understand that different species of trees have different growth rates and metabolic rates. This affects the overall health and longevity of the trees as living organisms, and for human uses, the quality of its timber.

The reason why hardwood species are so valued by us is because the wood grain and tissue are very dense and inflexible, unlike softwood species which have porous and springy wood. But the reason why hardwood species are, well... hard, is because they have slower growth rates and accumulate their biomass slowly.

Now trees like teak are unique among hardwood species in having a higher growth rate. And while in theory, it seems like common sense to plant them like how one would do with acacia or pine (softwood species with similar high growth rates), what a lot of people don't realize is that this higher growth rate is offset against a higher nutrient demand, which is how teak bulks up its biomass to create its well-known hardwood quality. Now teak is quite a resilient species, and even under nutrient deficiency, will continue to grow. But the higher competition for nutrients and space experienced by teak grown under high density cultures will result in wood that is porous and fragile.

In other words, all the wood harvested in the initial stages will be of very low quality that will fetch very low prices, if anyone is willing to take them. It is only in the last 2-3 harvests that the timber may be of appreciable quality.



Mr Farmer:

Fruit trees are quite different from timber species. For one, they do not have a long lifespan, which is why they are constantly producing fruits. It is a strategy used by fruit trees to propagate themselves, which we humans exploit.

But even when cultured under artificial conditions, much less at high densities, there is a very significant effect on crop performance. For one, the lifespan of these trees are greatly reduced. Secondly, the per-tree crop performance is sharply reduced. Also, there is a reduction in quality of crop.

Now many would probably be saying, "Eh? No ah... those farms growing like 200 mango trees per acre still produce more fruits than those with only 100 mango trees per acre wor...".

Well, if you read the report carefully, you will notice the reasons why. Very often, the yield performance is reported on a per acre or hectare basis. But when you divide the yield over number of trees, you will then see that each tree actually produces less crop for those in high density cultures. The reason why high density culture persists, is that the yield drop per tree is offset by the number of trees packed into a unit area.

Also, when you check the lifespan of the trees grown under high density cultures and compare them to less intensive farms, you will notice that those trees grown intensively will have a far shorter lifespan. For example, in the case of mangoes, trees grown at 100 stands per hectare will continue producing high amounts of crop well into 40 years or more of culture; whereas mango trees grown at 400 stands per hectare or more, they tend to stop producing crop before 20 years of age, sometimes halting production about 10 years into production.

Again, the main reason why high density culture is widely practiced is because the increased economic yield offsets the costs of replanting every decade or so.

As for your other question about how teak survive in the wild, I believe I have somewhat answered your question. But just to make it clearer, let me add on by saying that in the wild, there is a natural balance and order. Each tree species will occupy a certain niche within that order, which allows it to thrive. Humans tend to potong-trip this order, but often our efforts result in catastrophic outcomes.

As for the question about thinning... I would like to add on a few other thing:

Height is not as important in timber quality compared to girth. What I mean is that for timber merchants, there is little use for a 100 foot tall tree that is only 10cm in diameter, compared to a 10 foot tree with a trunk diameter of 20cm.

Bear in mind that for optimal growth, trees should be spaced 2 times the natural canopy space it occupies from the next growing point. And to clarify, canopy space is less critical than root growing space; the natural canopy space occupied by a tree is an approximation to the root space it requires to grow healthily.


Growing teak 5-8 feet apart from each growing point is industry practice, especially in Thailand. However, I'm wondering if the person realizes that he should be coppicing the trees.... depending on soil nutrient profile, coppicing should be done regularly.


The first article is done in Thailand by Thai and Japanese researchers on coppicing teak:
http://www.cifor.org/publications/pdf_file...abilitation.pdf

The journal also includes other tree species, such as Eucalyptus etc.




This post has been edited by Michael J.: Oct 22 2014, 11:05 AM

First time to learn about coppicing. Had to google to find out what it means. Wow... if coppicing is done, then it would take forever to grow the trees? Then wouldn't coppicing encourage the trees to have few branches? Is that desirable? Or, do you cut and leave only 1 main trunk?

I know thais like to do that, their trees are nice.

So is tree farming a good idea? Compared to fruits, it should be less work? But takes 10+ years to see return.

Would it be better to grow many species in the plot of land to simulate a forest?

My brother has land which he is not using. i am thinking if no one wanna use it for organic farming, I can start growing some trees. I heard there are people stealing trees too. My idea is to simulate a forest, and let it be for 10+ years.