For me, no way I'm ever doing TN panels again. Have been on VA for some time now and naturally, IPS is the next step up. 1440p wide screen ascension awaits
Good TN panels are still okay. The Acer Predator line that uses TN panels have good viewing angles (still not as good as IPS), color reproduction, and 1ms response time. After calibrated it does get better. IPS have to face screen lottery with IPS glow and color shifting. Not that I'm complaining, my PG348Q is thankfully safe from all these problems, but I've seen really severe color shifting from white to yellow and amber at the corners for X34 monitors. Ouch!
stringfellow at the end of the day go test OLED then u know what i'm talkin' bout
unfortunately, i'm wanna play games 60~80 GB. eg. GTA V took me 2 months to dl finish.
Go test OLED? You think you're the only one who had experienced OLED? I may not own one but I think I have a better understand of what OLED is, and it is not a plant life.
If it take you two months to download GTAV, then it is the case of whether you can play a game or not, NOT about its resolution. You cant even differentiate between internet speed and high resolution gaming. Internet speed has nothing to do with playing in 4K. That 60-80GB you're downloading? Guess what? That content has textures and game assets for 3840x2160, and you're wasting it away for playing it at 1920x1080. IF you can trim download size based on resolution, then your comment is valid, but you wasting your time downloading 60-80GB and not using it at its full potential.
Inb4 VSR/DSR. And no, I'm not telling you what that is, it's certainly not a plant species.
Those previous midrange cards, use in content server or HTPC rig la. Still useful and wont go to waste.
QUOTE(adilz @ Jul 9 2016, 11:43 PM)
Read that Nvidia decided no SLI for GTX 1060 to protect its GTX 1080. That's one shrewd business move.
If you look from another angle, then 1060 is more powerful than previous x60 range, that Nvidia didnt bother removing the SLI fingers because two of those are not threat for the higher end ones. The cannibalization is more towards 1070 not 1080. If you say that no SLI fingers on 1060 is to protect the 1080, then it's implying that two 1060 is powerful enough to match a 1080 at a cheaper price. Does that mean that it's true that 1060 is half of 1080's price, making it RM1500? IF that's also what you're implying then RX480 is dead in the water, fish gone belly up.
SLI or CF efficiency wasnt good, 2 card will never even close to get double on performance, not to mention memory capacity remain single card size. Only feasible for high-end, where single card cant satisfy performance.
Unless short on cash, get one card now and another card later. Still I would rather sold that one card and get higher end card. My 2 cents
you forgot one: framepacing. Whether it is SLi or CFX, there will always be framepacing issues. I lived with it with my Tri-SLI Titan X, I learned to tolerate it but can never fully accept it. Some games implement better framepacing than others, when it's bad, it's reaaaaaaaaly bad. Pulsating framerate is not pretty.
Earthquake-like fps on both SLI and CFX. Which is why single power card > two cards in SLI or CFX.
This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 10 2016, 02:06 AM
Which is why I was amused when the AMD budget users I was conversing to are using no SLI as an excuse to trump their RX480 when they are less likely to CFX with their budget. Kinda finding excuse for excuse's sake. Anything to slight Nvidia I guess. *shrugs*
Well they may not hv the money now, but at least they hv an option to get CFX for cheap a few months or a year down the road when 2nd hand RX 480 price drops by half. 40% to 90% bump on performance (on games that scales) for another RM 600-RM 700 is gold for those on tight budget.
I guess GTX 1060 buyers have to be more firm about their upgrade plan. If they dont hv intention to go 1440p soon, than its okay. But if they do, then they have to stomach the discount selling off their GTX 1060 and then add back RM 2,000 to get GTX 1070, coz SLI is not an option for GTX 1060. I sold of my 6 months old GTX 970 SLI for almost RM1,200 discount, can feel the pain.
But i think GTX 1060 will do good business with PC makers.
Therein lies the caveat: "games that scales on CFX/SLI". You're banking on the hope that CFX/SLI works, when it doesnt you're back with 1 card and worse still, you card is midrange. That is why one single powerful > two midrange. There is still that problem with framepacing that remains. ""It's not about how fast you go, it's how well you go fast!" You can go fast by adding two engines instead of one, but if the ride is bumpy as hell, you're not gonna enjoy it compared to a more powerful single engine.
Well OLED does tend to decrease in contrast and brightness at the end of its life span but current gen its like 11 yrs avg or 2-3 yrs 24/7 on. I think u just got to ask urself r u gonna keep a tv or monitor for that long??
By the 11th year of ownership I think the owner would feel that he had his worth full of high contrast deep blacks beautiful colors, instead of those who jumped in late. Remember, you cant put a price on experience, you can put a price on tangible items. If how much you value that experience that made people jump in first and be a pioneer.
QUOTE(jonathan_k @ Jul 9 2016, 08:18 PM)
ZOTAC GTX 970 Reference - RM999 with GST ZOTAC GTX 970 Dual Fan - RM1029 with GST ZOTAC GTX 970 AMP! Extreme Core - RM1099 with GST
byebye RX480
QUOTE(adilz @ Jul 10 2016, 12:38 AM)
Yeap, i lived with GTX 970 SLI too before, so yeah microstuttering exist, bad in some games, others barely noticable. Tolerable since i always have V-sync on too.
So far review on pascal sli showed a marked improvement on FCAT. At least 10-30ms, not as crazy as Maxwell 50+ ms. Here's GTA V FCAT on GTX 1070 SLI
I dont mind at all going for SLI if it's needed to push minimum fps above my target 60hz. I dont care much about average or max fps. As long as minimum above 60 fps, and cantiknya punya fcat, and i'll be happy. For that, i need another GTX 1080. "However, SLI was created to build the world’s fastest gaming platforms, bar none – and squarely focused on enthusiast and hardcore gamers." Nvdia Bryan Del Rizzo
I'm not defending Nvidia, it's a crappy move to remove SLI on the 1060. The cards (1080, 1070 and 1060) are tiered nicely to reflect their performance, and this is unlike previous x60 cards (960, 760, 660) which are basically budget throwaway performance cards. An X60 card that matches last gen's high end performance, when usually it's the x70 card that does that.
I plan to stay with SLI as well, albeit 2-way with 1080Ti or Titan Pascal instead of three-way Titan X now. I've had my headaches optimizing for my three-way SLI rig, that I can only tolerate the more supported two-way now than what I'm using currently.
I admire your patience explaining 4K to him. Exactly, looking at these tech to improve and come down in price!
This is nothing compared to the amount of misinformation I had to correct, spewed by people in FB groups, which has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I had one question asking whether he can put Christmas lights inside his rig instead of LED strip. And he's not joking. Another guy asks what is 980, 1080 and 4K. And the worst?
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Hence why I'd appreciate it that these folks keep it in their FB, and not in enthusiast forum like these. I regard everyone here with higher standards than "unregulated /k"
but hor, actually GTX 970 performs around the GTX 970, far from being anywhere near the GTX 980.
That aside, what you said is correct - around GTX 980 performance but doesn't mean beat it. More like in between 970 and 980.
btw to beat RX 480 it doesn't have to match GTX 980. It just has to give same or better price to performance ratio.
To shut the mouths of noisy AMD fanbase, it's not enough. Hence why the need to have at least a 980 performance. Anything else is icing on the cake.
QUOTE(goldfries @ Jul 10 2016, 09:39 PM)
The price of the 1060 is amazing.
Not gonna comment on that until the price info is out. This country, if Dear Leader says tomorrow got special tax for GTX1060, it'll go up just on his whim.
Not gonna comment until it's right there on a flyer, or a customer actually purchased it at that price. Only then I'll shove this in the face of those noisy AMD fanbase.
The only reason why RX480 cheerleaders are saying their card is 970OC is because of that Der8auer youTube video. He is an extreme overclocker, who has removed the power limit and programmed it so via attachment/solder to another PCB that allows it to do so, and got high enough performance to call it "970OC/980". Not an "everyday use" setup, and certainly not something everyone can do.
Goldfies explained it best. Plus if they do the "M" variant, it's just gonna be a refresh of the current version only. The TDP has dropped so much due to Pascal's efficiency that they can just simply do a slight underclock on the desktop GPU, simplify the PCBs to fit into MXM boards and call it "GTX 1080/1070/1060" on a laptop.
QUOTE(goldfries @ Jul 11 2016, 12:11 AM)
Wah you seem to be really annoyed by them. Is it on Facebook?
QUOTE(goldfries @ Jul 11 2016, 12:22 AM)
Actually on Facebook the hardware community can be really toxic, not just locals but those overseas.
I'm only in United Rig Hunters group on FB. Others, meh a lot of experts.
I am being blamed for my age. I cant help it if I dabbled in PC assembly and have knowledge in the field for years since the 6800U/X800XT days, and when my points were countered with posts that I made that l meant as a way of saying I've done this longer than you do, and they take it as me being "pompous". It just shows that they cannot counter the arguments, they attack the credibility of the person posting. That's AMD's toxic fanbase in FB group I'm in.
I was mentioning how overpriced the RX480 is in relation to its MSRP price and especially when the GTX1060 is about to come out, and I was fired for it!!? "Making sense" 404 these people.
Not worth it. I was looking into this and was disgusted at how much the desktop GPU in that enclosure is bottlenecked by the laptop-class CPU in that config. Pretty significant performance bottleneck.
AMD's current philosophy is, in my opinion, a little "neither here nor there" for PC gaming. Their GCN is very compute-optimized, good for parallel workloads (probably why they make good mining cards?) but in PC gaming, most games are not designed that way. And nVidia is architectured how PC games are designed hence they are a lot more efficient, especially since AMD would need to have more transistors to have the same output. Perhaps that is why AMD's power efficiency is no where near like nVidia's.
But console game developers do use Asynch compute to make their games run more efficient (all consoles have AMD GPUs) so AMD make chips that support it. And I am guessing that AMD wants to save cost in not redesigning a whole new architecture for the PC gaming market but adopt a lot of their stuff from their console chip. AMD after all have way lesser R&D money compared to nVidia.
DX11 as far as I know doesn't have asynchronous compute support and AMD have been pushing Microsoft to come up with an updated API that does. A bit too long so AMD made Mantle (later gave it Khronos and renamed it to Vulkan). And then microsoft went "okay okay we have DX12 now"
So when game developers actually use asynch compute (DX12) in their games, AMD cards perform really well. Like Hitman, Quantum Break, Total War: Warhammer, and Ashes. In guru3d's review, RX480 actually runs faster than GTX980 in those games. Rise of the Tomb Raider is an exception, read somewhere that they only apply pseudo dx12 stuff, gotta read up on that more.
So yeah it really depends on game developers but for the current market and probably at least the next 2 years, nVidia > AMD.
It'll be interesting to see how the new cards from both camps run on Vulkan.
It's as if AMD is encouraging "console ports" to come to PC, when PC gamers absolutely DO NOT want console ports. And because AMD is not willing to gamble on a "big chip" card now because not many games supports DX12, and if the take-up on DX12 fails and more devs go OpenGL or Vulkan, their "big chip" cards will be branded a total disaster and a waste of money for the kind of performance they give out.
QUOTE(adilz @ Jul 11 2016, 01:22 AM)
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I agree. SLI/ CFX is entirely a hit and miss thing. At the end, it all boils down to what games you play. I'm just looking at this from a viewpoint of person on budget who can only afford to fork out for RX 480 or the upcoming GTX 1060, and maybe able to save a bit within 6 months to a year for an upgrade. Since GTX 1060 not going to have SLI, I'll take RX 48- as example.
Two games that RX 480 CFX performs decently, on par with GTX 1080 and OCed GTX 1070
Two games that might as well take the second RX 480 and burn it coz its totally useless.
So if that person plays the 2 games that do well in CFX, well they have an option to get another RX 480 to crossfire, or they can sell the RX 480 and get a better single GPU. If they play the 2 games that's crap at CFX, well only option to upgrade is sell it off and get a better single card. Its about options.
In the case of GTX 1060, I firmly believe that performance will be better than GTX 970, and maybe even be on par with GTX 980. And if it had SLI capability, I believe it would do even better than RX 480 CFX. But well, that option is not going to be available, because it will jeopardize GTX 1070 and 1080 sales. Profit Margin 1 - 0 Budget Consumer.
And same thing with the frame-pacing issues. Its the managing tolerance between increase fps with SLI vs frame-pacing issue. If frame pacing problem is inherent and is so bad in all games that runs SLI, I think nvidia would also forgo the SLI for GTX 1070 and GTX 1080. But some games already showed a marked improvement in frame-pacing with the new Pascal arch.
Maxwell SLI's earth quake.
[attachmentid=7056443] Pascal GTX1070 SLI.
I believe Nvidia will continue to improve their SLI implementation so that the benefit of increase fps (both avg and min) far outweighs the frame-pace issues. I heard rumors that GTX 1080 Titan will be 50% faster than GTX 1080. Based on current SLI benchmarks, I'll probably get another GTX 1080 to SLI, rather than sell my current GTX 1080 for a single GTX 1080 Titan.
Even if the SLI/CFX benefit is there, the earthquake-like framepacing isn't worth it for midrange cards. For both cases, SLI or CFX. SLI or CFX counts for a very niche few, less than 1% based on reports posted. That is why most people who SLI or CFX, they do that at the higher end level cards like 290X/390X/FuryX or 980/Ti/TitanX level, because if SLI/CFX doesn't work, they still have a relatively powerful single card performance to live with.
Explicit Multi Adapter is also one of the touted improvement in DX12, but again, at the current rate AMD cards are being released, it is holding things back altogether. And not a "1+1 = 2", no 100% scaling there.
But see how much hate Microsoft get for folks who refuses to update to Windows 10, not to mention how people hate Windows Store and its UWP component. I kept mentioning playing Killer Instinct but finding a local player who plays this game is like finding a diamond the size on Losmah's ring finger.
Jul 9 2016, 03:12 PM
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Anything to slight Nvidia I guess. *shrugs*
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