Ok, i am sure nobody asked this question before here. To cut the story short, i am about to hire a technician to change the entire MCB unit (RCD, MCB, Main Switch, MCB box). My house has the single phase electric power, but i bought the 2 pole main switch (please refer to attached photo).
Can i use it for my single phase power?
Another question is that anybody heard of 1 pole RCD or RCCB? or it's only 2 pole / 4 pole available for residential use?


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You're changing to a new single phase DB (distribution board)..

A DB has a 2p (2 pole or double pole) isolator => 2p rcd(residual current device), rccb or rcbo => Neutral bar + SP(single pole) mcb(miniature circuit breaker) => outgoing wiring to lights & socket load..

Your picture shows a 2 pole isolator for the neutral and phase cable i.e single phase ..

A common rating is 40A DP to protect 16mm2 pvc cable, use the 63A only if you are going to use 25mm2 (or larger) size cable..

Please refer to Suruhanjaya Tenaga's Guidelines for Electrical Wiring in Residential Building 2008 (Guidelines-Electricity) if you require more details..

Yes..

No..

Yes.. The reason is due to its nature of operation.. The current flowing through the phase cables MUST return to the neutral cable..

Any leakage current will be detected by the residual current device and trip the supply..

Thus it is 2/3/4 pole.. a source(single or 3phase) and the return current path (Neutral)..

This post has been edited by Richard: May 30 2016, 10:43 AM

The 2 pole is for neutral + live. Not for normal house DB. It is for like near to the aircon isolator box. Or near to the motor isolator box. Mostly factory use.

You can separate out by take out the joint black trigger. But some of them joint up internal or a bar across.

RCD and RCCB require 2 pole to function. Live and neutral. 4 pole is for 3phase. Both available for residential use. Depend you using single phase or 3 phase.

Thanks for the input, it helps a lot.
I looked at my current DB board, i can see a Switch Fuse (first from the right in the picture).
Do i need a swich fuse, or just the ABB isolator i bought earlier will do the job?


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Thanks for the input. I understand the second part explanation now.
But i am curious if i should use the ABB 2 pole as in the first photo, or i should return to the shop for 1 Pole?
The electrical shop is quite far from my place.

Return back.

It is no use for you to put 2pole in the DB. Cause the neutral will be join in common.

If you insist use, the guy will just join the live to 1pole in the 2pole MCB. Left another pole empty. It still function normal. But eat up your DB space.

ok bro. How about switch fuse? do i need one like my old db board?

You can use a switch fuse or the 2pole mcb as your mains switch..

The normal practice is using 2 pole mcb as a mains switch to isolate the electrical supply from your incomer just in case you get a short circuit between live/neutral cables..

Hi sifu,

Can I replace a 63A 1P switch fuse with a 63A 2P MCB ?
how does the installation go about? Since existing switch fuse only has 1 incoming & 1 outgoing...

this is to replace the MAIns switch ya.

better to get a 63A 1P MCB .

If only 63A 2P MCB is available, is it usable?

yes.. it can be. used .

just Input the L & N from tenaga to the bottom pins .
on top will be the OUT . L to RCD . N to the busbar .





This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 9 2020, 05:56 PM

thanks for your detailed explanation.
Forgive my sillyness. Sorry if my question sound stupid.
I don't understand one thing.
Existing main switch (some ppl call it switch fuse) only got 2 holes (1 In and 1 Out). If no choice but to use 2P MCB, won't it have extra empty hole then? Coz it has 4 holes ( 2 In , 2 Out ).

This post has been edited by chemistry: Oct 9 2020, 06:16 PM

mains switch can use switch fuse or use a isolator or use a MCB . 63A for single phase.

some switch fuse have 2 holes at bottom and 2 holes at top . Live and neutral .

just check which you want .


the reason is at the MAIN switch . the neutral ''you can say no use. '' so we protect the LIVE line only .
that s why some manufacturer make a 1 P unit. so sell cheaper , you save some money .


https://shopee.com.my/EPS-63A-1P-N-Main-Swi...0848.2817950833

https://shopee.com.my/EPS-63A-1P-N-Main-Swi...0848.2817950833



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 9 2020, 06:31 PM

Existing is using something like this.


Then my uncle bought this from outside.


Is it correct to connect the IN and OUT as shown above? Leave the other two holes empty right?

yes... correct .

the left side for LIVE in /out . as your marker .
The out LIVE will connect to your IN Live of RCD device.


since you dont want to pass the neutral in this 63A MCB ..
you need to check that the Neutral goes DIRECT to the N of the RCD , it should already be there . as you not touch any N Black cable.


refer to the wiring diagram by stormerlyn below....

Just a question.
your DB box is already correct with the EPS switch fuse .

what make you want to change to mcb ? ( it is not wrong to change.

ok there is no hurry for you to change this , just wait till one day you have electrician in your house , you and ask him change...



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 10 2020, 03:30 PM

If your existing is the top photo, then the live goes in and out from it. The neutral from TNB will go straight to the RCCB.
If you change to the 2 pole version in the bottom picture, you should not leave the second slot empty (The slot on the right in your picture, without your red lines)
Take the neutral from the RCCB and poke into the second slot. And then from this dual pole take 2 wires and go to the RCCB.

Argh, sorry, logically the RCCB should be on the left, so the busbar can feed the MCBs

Edit to add this image from the internet


This post has been edited by stormer.lyn: Oct 9 2020, 09:34 PM

Get a electrician to help you if you are not sure.

Electric can kill you.

It is preferable to ensure that the RCD/MCB/isolator is from same brand. This way it will fit well when you install the busbar.
Also liability issue, if you fit proton engine into a honda MPV and using ECU from toyota, if the car blows up, I don't think insurance/mfg product liability will cover.

Also, for own house, preferably get the whole system from ABB/Hager/Schneider. These are reputable brands with easily 10-18 countries' certification.

The CE logo, to be honest is just suka suka self declaration [CE marking does not provide any specific information to the consumer. It is not a quality assurance declaration, it does not show evidence of third-party testing, and it should not be confused with any independent certification mark of the type issued by international or European notified test bodies.]


Seconded. When talking about main switch replacement you're dealing with live TNB feed of 230V at thousands of amps.
Just 0.05A is all that's needed to kill a person.

If working BEHIND the main switch isolator, that one is much safer since L and N are cut off from TNB safely. But to touch those live wires (since there is no isolator installed currently) it is a very risky thing, call an electrician.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 10 2020, 03:56 AM

the Hager , ABB ...etc is sold at really High price. about 2 to 3 times more .

if you on lower budget than go for EPS.
their products have certification . Type tested by Intertek Semko AB (Sweden) in compliance to IEC 60898

yes the CE logo is miss used.


sometimes you want to DIY small things. . so get info and learn up to understand how it works. access the risk and if you confident go ahead.

if you really want to work on the DB box ... the safest/best is to pull out the tenaga fuses at the outside panel by the Meter.
wear a thick rubber glove .
you must have a test pen or a digital meter to check iif safe.
always double check no power before you touch/handle .
always have a partner there . DO not work ALONE .



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 10 2020, 03:57 PM

haha, because recently read some articles about switch fuse and MCB, noticed that it is common practice to use 2P MCB as main switch.

thanks for your diagram. Appreciate it.
After watching some youtube videos I gained better illustration on this diagram.

It's true. Thanks for your warm advice.

Yes Sir, noted that.

This post has been edited by chemistry: Oct 16 2020, 08:37 PM

Yes the 2P MCB is better because it cuts off both L and N (return path) together, hence it isolates the whole circuit in the house.
Because electricity is colour blind, it is not limited to just the live (typically red) wire, it can also (if there is a fault somewhere) travel along the black wire (N).
When you cut both the L and N, it is perfectly isolated.

Hi all,

I'd like to ask regarding 63A 4P RCCB.
Below is a rough picture showing how the (3P+N) from the switch fuse connect to RCCB, as seen from my shop 3phase DB.


I was surprised to find out that the outgoing cable from 63A switch fuse connect to the lower part of RCCB.

Usually it should be this way right ? -->

Hope sifu could enlighten me..

It depends on the MCB spec.

When a MCB are marked “Line” and “Load,” the power supply conductors must be connected to the marked “Line.” These MCB cannot be reverse-fed. If “Line” and “Load” are not marked on MCB, the power supply conductors may be connected to either end. These devices are suitable for reverse-feed applications.


Those that say reversible line and load connections, or power supply connection=arbitrary then will work both ways.

Arbitrary doesnt mean random, but within reason, so if the line L from top, then line N also should be from top. So its not a license to have it LineL LoadN on top and LoadL LineN on bottom

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 16 2020, 09:47 PM

oh ! got such thing, now only know
In the above bolded statement you mentioned about MCB, is RCCB also got such type whereby supply conductors may be connected to either end?
Sorry if I asked stupid question

This post has been edited by chemistry: Oct 16 2020, 09:54 PM

Usually RCD is direction specific and L/N specific. They will have a diagram 1 goes to 2, 3 goes to 4, that tells the line/load side, usually RCD is top fed.

So there is planning needed to ensure that the UUU and nnn sides all work in the right directions, right ordering sequence AND last but not least working with the physical limitation of the TNB line cables which in some cases are cut so super short that it won't even reach the end of the DB box, mine is fed from center (see the big red main switch). This causes the MCB to be top fed (but its ok because this series all arbitrary supply)

From your picture I see that one RCCB is fed from top, while another one is fed from bottom. Are these RCCBs reversible type?

See the diagram, in this case yes both ways also can for the RCD because 1/2 and 2/1 from the diagram.



As for the MCB,
S201 range is always top feed (1 Line goes to 2 Load).
This is an older batch pic curi from internet.


This is my actual pic of the MCB, sorry for potato camera.


This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 17 2020, 12:38 AM

I went to check the diagram of several brands RCCB, seem like only ABB can feed either way.
Now I am a bit worried
I see my 4P RCCB is fed from bottom, then outgoing from top side , to the MCBs located above. Same goes to MCBs, they are fed from top side too.
(finally got the guts to open the DB to take picture LOL)




Despite the reverse feed, everything is alright, so far no unwanted tripping. Press the T it will trip as normal.

Just want to know, is this layout OK?

This post has been edited by chemistry: Oct 17 2020, 11:05 AM

yes true sometimes we have a choice .
As you have already a switch fuse installed , i said just keep it.

Let s look at the practical side.
there are cases that MCB dont trip due to various reasons . MCB can malfunction too.
how often do you test your MCB ?

The choice is still yours ..
my house DB has a switch fuse
I cannot find a good reason to change it out to a MCB . can you ?
i am thinking about the risk and safety .


This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 17 2020, 10:35 AM

I really have no idea, sir. I am not good in electricity thing. I just noticed many new DB using 2P MCB as main switch hence asked this question.. If you tell me switch fuse is still a good thing, I will just let it stay there until it blows (don't know when haha).
By the way, would you spare some time to comment on my shop's 3phase DB posted above? Thank you Sir.

This post has been edited by chemistry: Oct 17 2020, 11:08 AM

is your concern about the RCB device installation .
usually RCD is top feed.
what model RCD you have there ..? DELIXI ?



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 17 2020, 11:23 AM

Yes sir, I am particularly concerned about the reversely-fed RCCB and MCBs.
The RCCB model is CDL7463YC. Brand "Delixi".

Yesterday night I read one article, which says "if the RCD does not specify LINE and LOAD on the terminals, mean it can be reverse feed. If it does specify, then must follow accordingly". I am not sure this statement true or not.

lookin at the circuit diagram on the delixi rcd ...its top feed . so no worries .

Are you facing constant tripping or very often trip ?



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 17 2020, 11:41 AM

Yeah, circuit says top feed, but in actual it was bottom fed instead.
Could you see the Outgoing (from switch fuse) actually connect to the bottom of that RCD.

The previous Maxguard RCD did not trip when I pressed "T" . Hence the replacement. Asked an electrician to come and he had only this brand for 63A 4P 100mA RCD. If 300mA, he has Maxguard. I chose 100mA.

i check the circuit diagram of the delixi again . seems you can connect top or bottom . no problem .

the maxguard is faulty .
possible can be hit the lightning surge or the trip mechanism mechanical is jam .

its recommended to test the RCB a few times in a year.



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 17 2020, 12:20 PM

Relieved to hear that.
I press T every month. Just early this month found out it won't trip.
Could you shed some light how to interpret the diagram, particularly to check whether it can connect top or bottom?

Yesterday i studied many diagrams, only the ABB diagram labels 1/2 at top, 2/1 at bottom. Most other brands label 1 at top, 2 at bottom.

This post has been edited by chemistry: Oct 17 2020, 12:24 PM

its best to check the manufacturer installation guide .
when u buy a RCD device they put the guide in the box.

in this case they dont specify . so top or bottom is OK.

the diagram is a guide but not tell what is right regarding installation.

Unfortunately there is no guide/manual inside the box . What a cap ayam...

yes... when buying china made power devices need to check out the specs , compliance standards ..etc .
or just go for the better brand you trust .

something always best to buy the same manufacturer type devices in the DB box.
mix types is a risk . you need to study more the specs, and requirements of the devices. dont trust any electricians . you need to know !

in short dont simply buy any without knowing the details and facts./ do your research first



This post has been edited by Momo33: Oct 17 2020, 03:13 PM

No choice, my father already called his "good friend", he only brought 2 RCD for us to choose.
1) Maxguard 300mA
2) Delixi 100mA
We chose (2).

Initially I was thinking to buy a branded RCD from online then ask electrician to install l, i will pay upah. My father told me "don't kepoh". I just shut up lor.

Actually that RCD is the most important because it protect against earth leakage/ground fault interrupter. You can change it yourself since its after the main switch fuses (hence the power can be shut off safely).
ABB 4P 63A 100ma only RM138 - https://shopee.com.my/ABB-RCCB-ELCB-RCD-40A...1048.7350447835 which if compared to same spec CHINT RCCB at RM107 (CHINT is PRC top MCB brand) isn't too expensive.

4P 30mA gives better human shock protection but since you are using in commercial i.e. heavy load equipment so 100mA is also acceptable.
I generally go with ABB because their "general home use" RCDs are cheapest among the 3 major brands ABB Hager Schneider [for my purpose] and if i remember correctly, RCD for ABB and Hager usually not made in China, but Italy/France respectively hence they cost more.
For high amp high sensitivity 4P 63A 30mA / 100A types these are more complex so it really cost more

Like the 40A 4P 30ma I am using (not pictured) is only RM127, cannot use 63A as TNB service only 10mm wire.
Their 10mA RCD for WH is a bit pricey, as compared to Hager and PRC Schneider. But got datasheet and its current model. H 10mA for water heater the stuff in the market seem to be discontinued model.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 17 2020, 03:42 PM

Managed to hack the skirting bead without breaking the tiles, while wait for the needle gum to reach, meanwhile patch the wall cracks, hopefully all work smooth

Alternatively thinset mortar also can work to stick back the skirting tiles, if it does fall off

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 25 2020, 01:38 PM

I came across this forum while searching for better understanding on how to resolve my frequent power trip.
I am staying in a condo (mid-level) and somehow my unit's power frequently tripped during thunder & lightning while other units seem to be okay. My unit's DB has Single Pole MCB for TNB supply line protection and every time the power trip, it is the RCCB that trips.
I got a couple of electricians to suggestion solution. One suggests I replace the Single Pole MCB for TNB supply line protection with a Double Pole MCB, while another suggests that I replace the RCCB with lesser sensitivity.

To finally decide what to do, I like to seek for your expert opinions regarding the following for better understanding:

1. Can the surge due to lightning causes the RCCB to trip? I always thought it should be the mains MCB and not the RCCB?

2. While replacing SP MCB with DP MCB provides better protection in general, does this replacement likely to reduce my RCCB tripping?

3. Replacing RCCB with a less sensitive model will definitely reduce the tripping, but how to avoid exposing my appliances to higher risks?

Thanks.....


Trying to attach the photo of my current MCB & RCCB

Keen to know too!