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 AV Receivers/ Speakers/ Subwoofers, Discussion & Opinion

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sivanathan04
post May 18 2016, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(jdgobio @ May 18 2016, 03:40 PM)
Ok.
Why not test a few at the shops in KL before deciding which one to go with? Well, its ultimately your choice but be warned that while the suggestion may "look" good to you, it may not "sound" so. Anyway, if you don't test other speakers you will never know what you're missing so that may be a good thing in your case.

Sometimes you will be surprised to find that even a RM900 bookshelf may sound better than a RM2000 one for the simple reason that it sounds better to you although all the professional reviewers rave about the RM2k speakers. At other times the more expensive one sounds only marginally better at which point you need to think whether you're willing to spend double the amount for a marginal difference. The law of diminishing returns applies here.
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Yup will test bro before bought it if i have three brands within the budget will test n decide which bookshelf to choose just need some good models name...ssjben recommend q acoustic 2020i or svs prime..i think the acoustic within my budget svs prime price still don't know yet..sometime too many models also will make us headache just wanna go with sifu recommended brand and will test which suits me between this two
sivanathan04
post May 18 2016, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 18 2016, 04:19 PM)
Prime Satellite pair SRP is RM1.6k, but it can be had cheaper. How much cheaper I'm not sure, because they're affected by currency fluctuation. You need to call Maxx Audio or their other dealers to get the latest price. RM2.5k is the price for the Prime Bookshelfs, different product.

I've always had a soft spot for the Q2020i, I still like it until today. Good little bookshelfs, doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Its bigger brother the Q3020 is even better of course, but I was suggesting the Q2020i because I was under the impression you need it to be under RM2k a pair.
Under RM1k, the SSCS5 bookshelfs are one of the best budget bookshelfs I've heard. IMO, it's better than the very popular Pioneer AJ BS22. That said, stock from Sony is quite limited. You definitely need to place special order with them because AFAIK and have been told, they sell out like fresh goreng pisang the moment new stocks come in. Shouldn't have promoted them that much... tongue.gif

The CS8 center is okay-ish, wouldn't say good. But to my ears, the entire Sony Core Series lineup weak link is the center channel. The towers are great for its price, the bookshelfs are pretty good too, but the center... yeah, in comparison is somewhat of a disappointment. That said, it's RM500 so it's quite cheap and is certainly still better than the muffled Pioneer AJ C22.
Yes, that's my opinion.
But understand that with most intergrated amps, you're limited to 2 channels (+ a sub). So if you do plan to do 4.1, 5.1 or whatever else, then you'll need a receiver. That said, with your dimensions, it is quite difficult to get an optimal 5.1 surround setup. You can mount the rears on top of your sitting area I guess, but I generally wouldn't suggest it.

I took a look at your pic again and I see that you probably could have a center channel below the TV. If you do get the Sony Core Series which comprises of the CS5 and CS8, I think all you need is a decent budget AVR and you'll be set. I don't think it will sound better than a pair of higher quality bookshelfs though, but if you want 3.1 without going down the HTiB sound quality route, the Sony CS5 + CS8 is a pretty good compromise.

A great quality 2.1 is better than a cheap 5.1. It goes back to the whole HTiB thing, there's a legit reason why most (if not all) of them can't compare to a pair of bookshelfs that cost as much (or slightly more) than a HTiB set.

I don't want to claim that I'm an expert, but I strongly believe that if you want to do surround, do it properly. Otherwise stick with good ol' stereo, you have less headaches, you have great sound quality, and you'll be happy.
KLIAV is in July. It won't be representative of what you will hear in your own space, but it should open your ears a bit on what to expect from different speakers. At least it gives you an idea.
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Thank you so much at last I decided I will go with best 2.1 setup...i don't think surround will suits me...A pair of good bookshelf with a intergrated amp...which amp do you recommend bro I'm using for bluray,astro mainly...plus a sub recommendations too if budget got will go with a sub too..for bookshelf I will look for q acoustic and svs will find out where to get cheaper thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 18 2016, 05:01 PM
sivanathan04
post May 19 2016, 06:34 AM

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QUOTE(dirtrun @ May 18 2016, 04:57 PM)
Satellite means just tat -  small, lite..
Bkshlvs are smallish spkrs but bigger - able to place on a bookshelf..

I personally prefer a bkshlf.. soundwise..
I tink u can still mount a surr to an existing wall [ even if its not equal distance from ur MLP.. ] - its not perfect but itll work..
Of cos, 3.1 is a lot easier ..
I guess its up 2 u.. where theres a will, theres always a way..

Editted to add :
N since u r a beginner n probably dunno wat u like, buyin new is kinda waste - go used ; any decent bkshlv is worth a listen..

D
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Yup I think I can do a 3.1 also but it wont perfect that's true..just scared to buy used unit that's all didn't have experienced ๐Ÿ˜‹
sivanathan04
post May 19 2016, 06:47 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 18 2016, 05:33 PM)
Decent int. amp without breaking the bank - Yamaha A-S301 perhaps, around RM1.4k or less.
Again, do understand that by going with an int. amp, you're effectively giving up anything more than a 2.1 as an option. Codecs used by blu-ray movies will not be able to be played back in their original state, instead will simply be downmixed into PCM 2.0. Whether that makes a difference, that's an entirely subjective area.

For sub, you have to see where you are going to put it first. Sub placement is the trickiest component to work with. I like to recommend SVS and Rythmik subs, but they are expensive (in bolehland at least). However they blow a lot of those toy subs which cost under RM1k, you know those rubbish subs which has like an amp that crackles under mild pressure or the cabinet resonates like an osim vibrator.

I guess good subs, you want decent price you're gonna have to look at the 2nd hand market. Some I can recommend on a budget would be perhaps the Paradigm PDR80/PDR100,ย  Taga TSW-90, or Sumiko S5. These are subs costing around the RM2k mark or so and they aren't super huge.
With your space, you need to find the dimensions of how big of a sub you can fit at the best possible location first.

Other bookshelfs around RM2k you can research on:

- ELAC Debut B6 (RM1.7k)
- Klipsch RP150 (RM2k)
- Paradigm Atom v7 (RM1.6k)
- Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 (RM1.9k)
These are off the top of my head for bookshelfs under the RM2k budget. I'm sure there's more from Mission, Martin Logan, and so on, but other sifus can chime in.

*EDIT*
The law of diminishing returns in audio is a lot more prevalent than say buying a TV, projector or even a computer. Because our ears don't hear linearly, anything that may sound bad to one may sound like the best thing to another. I mean, we have people buying beats products until today after all.
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Nice suggestion bro thumbup.gif How bout the xls encore..after sonerin mention the brand I just look for review not bad price around rm1290..for sub I think the 2k suggestion is good for me svs is too high out of my budget๐Ÿ˜‹..I have some doubt here supposed the intergrated amp sounds good if compare to avr rite but how the hd thingy all like ktek say I have no idea on this....now I have a good suggestion to look for thank you so much thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 19 2016, 07:01 AM
sivanathan04
post May 19 2016, 06:52 AM

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QUOTE(ktek @ May 18 2016, 06:03 PM)
pls dont go the int amp if your main usage in movie. lose the lossless hd audio and surround is not replaceable.
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I really didn't have idea on this matter...i understand that if I choose the intergrated amp I have to sacrifice surrounding option but hd audio ?...bro how about the xls encore bookshelf have u test the speaker is it sounds good I read review in the xls thread and found u have comment thr..how about the quality๐Ÿ˜Š tq for the reply
sivanathan04
post May 19 2016, 06:55 AM

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QUOTE(stilo10 @ May 18 2016, 06:58 PM)
You may check it out on these bookshelfs:

Mission MX1 - RM750
Mission MX2 - RM990
Q Acoustics 2020i - RM1.3k
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Thank you for the model bro mission mx2 looks nice too..will look into the model thumbup.gif
sivanathan04
post May 19 2016, 06:59 AM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ May 18 2016, 10:11 PM)
XLS encore is about RM1.4k as well and is a very good speaker
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After u mention this model I start looking for the review...yup the review not bad...did u test the speaker how bout the quality n sound...the speaker outlook also nice seems bigger..price rm1290 not bad actually thumbup.gif
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 12:51 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 19 2016, 03:44 PM)
Don't have experience with the XLS encore. Just reading opinions and reviews is what I know from them, but if it's one thing everyone agrees is that they do present an exceptional budget-performance value.

In 2 channel mode, an integrated amp is usually going to sound better than an entry level receiver of the same price. How much better is subjective of course. If you're going to do 3.1 (which in your space does seem possible with a bit of squeezing, won't be too bad though), then a receiver is your only route.

If you want good sound over anything else, then the int. amp is the way to go but you do sacrifice some features like DD/DTS decoding, auto room correction, a hub to route all your devices and whatever else.

For around the same price as the Yamaha S301, you can take a look at the Yamaha RX-v379 or the upcoming v381. I can only suggest Yamaha for entry level receivers these days, the budget types from Onkyo and Pioneer has way too many reliability complaints. Denon entry level receivers aren't sold here, so there's that. So don't take it as though I'm a Yamaha fanboy, I'm not.
Blu-Ray discs usually comes with Dolby TrueHD or DTSMA tracks now a days. They are lossless compression codecs, similar in the sense to how FLAC is a lossless compression codec used for music. There has been countless debate on whether people can hear the difference between the older lossy codecs like Dolby Digital or DTS, regularly used during the DVD days. It's a grey area of discussion, only way to hear if there's a difference is that you test it out yourself. I personally can hear a subtle difference between DTS and DTSMA, but I can't tell a single shit of a difference between DD and DTS.

An integrated amp won't be able to decode any of the codecs from Dolby or DTS. So instead, everything will simply be downmixed into PCM 2.0, which is what ALL audio devices must understand.

I believe you could go for an entry level receiver with a 2.0 setup first, add the sub after that then add the center channel later on.

Just a note about center channels though, you'd ideally want it to be tonally matched with your L/R speakers and they should be equal in sound quality output or better.
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Thanks for the advised bro...will look into the avr model..so many stuff๐Ÿ˜‹ have to learn one by one๐Ÿ˜‹

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 20 2016, 01:08 AM
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 12:52 AM

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QUOTE(jovigrunge @ May 19 2016, 05:22 PM)
At first I thought of getting Yamaha RX-V379, then RX-V479.....after that RX-V579 but now since RX-V81 models will be out soon especially those with Dolby Atmos, I changed my mind again and wait to see what will be the price. AV receiver with Dolby Atmos is for long term.  brows.gif

Can you guys see how fickle minded I am? Damn technology! doh.gif
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๐Ÿ˜‹
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(barjoyai @ May 19 2016, 06:46 PM)
I've been monitoring this thread for quite some time and thanks to all here for the good info. I myself is in my way to upgrade my home theater speakers as I ventured into HT 3, 4 years ago. As we all know that KLIAV 2016 is just around the corner, I would like to have some suggestions and recommendations of speaker packages, so I can have a shortlist of speakers that I can look out during the show. I depend totally on forums and internet review; I bought stuffs based on Whathifi award, LOL. As a beginner myself, now only I realized that center speaker is very important; previously I bought a 3.0 setup with Wharfedale 10.2 and Wharfedale 10cs connected to Yamaha RX-A810. I just bought the center so that i have a center channel and it's cheap, tongue.gif  but after times, now I know it lacks clarity and positioning. Now that I have changed the Wharfedale 10.2 to Wharfedale 121, I think they sound worse and is like didn't match each other,  sweat.gif
Now that if I have a budget of rm4k-5k for a new left right and center speakers, what good speaker package can I have that can be considered a significant upgrade? i'm thinking of SVS prime/ultra line, B&W 685 series, Q acoustics line (but as far i remembered, they sound a little thin). I am also considering the XLS encore setup but not sure whether it's a good upgrade or not as no place to demo.
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Xls encore have good review but im having same problem is it a good buy ๐Ÿ˜‹
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ May 19 2016, 09:46 PM)
You can audition q acoustic, XLS and SVS in acoustic system amcorp mall. B&W is in Jaya one. Really should go for a listen than to know.
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thumbup.gif will listen to it..many good reviews but they using diff amp to bring good sound from the speaker..i read some from the review

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 20 2016, 01:10 AM
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ May 19 2016, 07:08 AM)
Yes did the test before and is absolutely a good speaker and is "buatan Malaysia"
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QUOTE(ktek @ May 19 2016, 08:37 AM)
HD audio requirement is HDmi port. int amp none. even the optical port decode straight stereo only.
u run surround downmix to stereo, output quality is good, small detail reduced.
no room correction setup like mcacc ypao audyssey to solve ur unequal wall.

playing bd different a lot. downloaded movie may not effected
i went thru this last year.

spk beside brand, we look at the size and bass port direction (front vs rear)
xls use 6.5" wont dissapoint u without subwoofer, becos of limited budget to buy everything in 1 shot.

others 5" are acceptable by tuning eq or room reflection. dont buy 4" totally out of bass kick
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Great info bro...ok if i decide to go with xls which amp is the best to bring out best sound from the speaker..

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 20 2016, 01:07 AM
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(dirtrun @ May 19 2016, 10:37 AM)
Spkrs.. unless thrashed real bad can last a long time.. its not a bad decision to get used spkrs.. if u r totally new in tis ; go try out those tat hv been traded in [from d bigger shops] n ask for some form of warranty - at least u knw u can change em if there is a problm once u get home..
Asking for opinions n reading rvws can only go so far becos in de end, u hv to be the one living wif ur decision..
N believe me - if u hv no idea wat u like now ; eventually u would wanna change once u know.. at least if u go 'Used', its not tat painful..
Oso.. in tis case - expensive is not necesarily de best - at least for u..

Spkng thru xperience..
D
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QUOTE(ktek @ May 19 2016, 12:47 PM)
same idea. from my 20yrs old british made floorstand spk its remain tough and long service life to go. never fail to impress any audio beginners who come to my house.

basic check is surround ring condition and demo song in low mid loud volume. make sure no funny noise. all screw, nut, jumper link, grill, leg intact and given. outlook can nego if has imperfect.
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QUOTE(stilo10 @ May 19 2016, 01:23 PM)
Some very good points highlighted by bro dirtrun! If you can wait, why not try to visit this coming 2016 KLIAV show in July and I think most of the av gear that you are considering should be available there and you can auditioned it before buying. You may get some advice from the experts and maybe you can even get a better set that suits your listening environment at the show. Some of the dealers may be selling off some demo units at a very attractive prices during the show. Most likely you be able to find a set that you are interested and at the meantime, you can do some research and survey on those gears of liking before going over!
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Yup will look for display unit or used item at the shop if can will get some warranty..just scared ๐Ÿ˜‹...thank you bro

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 20 2016, 01:11 AM
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 05:18 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 20 2016, 01:55 AM)
Remember, only the v581 and above has Atmos.
Also consider the fact that 5.x.2 Atmos is really only viable in a small room. If you have medium sized room, 5.x.2 isn't immersive enough, even if you have 6.5" wide dispersion drivers as your overheads. That's my IMO at least, having experimented with them.

So, unless you'll always have a small room setup, consider the fact that getting a budget receiver isn't a long term investment.
5k isn't enough for an SVS Ultra LCR setup though, they would cost around RM8.5k+ or more. Just a pair of Ultra Bookshelfs, then perhaps.
The SVS Prime Bookshelf + Prime Center on the other hand is possible with a 4-5k setup.

B&W 685 series has always been popular, I'm not exactly sure of the pricing but they are a good choice to check out as well. Some other I can recommend are Klipsch if you like clarity and sparkly trebles, their horn tweeters man... they're good stuff as long as you don't find them fatiguing.

KEF Q series bookshelfs too, they aren't bad. I used to own a pair of Q100 and Q200 as LCR, found them pretty good all rounders for many things but falls short of standing out.
As explained, if you only have a budget of an entry-level AVR, go Yamaha. Onkyo and Pioneer are alternatives, but you only need to make 1 search about their reliability reports and you'll understand why they aren't recommended below their high-end stuff.
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Noted ๐Ÿ˜‹ thank you...one more doubt pre amp is for more better music output its like avr connected to pre amp

This post has been edited by sivanathan04: May 20 2016, 05:20 AM
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(barjoyai @ May 20 2016, 07:46 AM)
Yes that's the thing. If possible, I don't want to pour so much money, lol. For rm2k plus with xls encore, it's definitely a good buy if they can rival the other expensive speakers.
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Yup that's true ๐Ÿ˜‹
sivanathan04
post May 20 2016, 10:36 PM

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QUOTE(dirtrun @ May 20 2016, 01:28 PM)
Its not all about music..

A pre / processor oso leaves de hard work of powering the spkrs to the power amps.. I run a Marantz 7002 with a Rotel pwr amp n even thou on paper my amp outputs only 100 wts / channel while my supposedly more powerful avr , at [  l tink , forget liao.. ] 130.. my spkrs still sing.. heck l personally tink its more all rounded as in its got more heft at midrange..
Wat l am trying to say is tat avr power figures are best considered wif a grain of salt - power amp figures on the other hand is more trustworthy.. so look for a pre function for ur avr instead of being tied dwn wif one tat is wifout..

smile.gif 
D
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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 20 2016, 01:51 PM)
A pre/pro is simply just that, a pre-amp and processor. It doesn't power the speakers.
An external power amp is usually connected to a pre/pro so that all an amp will do is drive the speakers and nothing else. The pre/pro handles all the signal processing, decoding, video passthrough and so on.

A pre/pro + power amp setup is usually the best way to driver power into the speakers. As already explained by bro dirtrun, the power specs on receivers these days are mostly bs marketing. Receiver companies love to inflate numbers by rating the power handling at ridiculously high THD or at low impedance, and in Onkyo's case, rate it at 1 channel driven because bigger number = better right???!

Then they have all these stupid specs like PMPO or JEITA (yeah Yamaha, looking at you) which makes absolutely zero sense.

At the end of the day, once you get to a certain decent wattage, it is difficult to go higher to get more volume. Example, if a 100w per channel amp can drive a speaker up to 85db output and peaks of 110db, it'll take more than TWICE the power just get another +3db. Volume is not linear, it's logarithmic.

So don't be too invested into the whole power ratings game on receivers. A receiver with 100w into 2 channels at 8ohms, under 0.010% THD isn't going to sound louder at all in comparison to an 80w into 2 channels receiver. 20w is nothing.

The final thing to understand about the power tests done by sites like Sound and Vision. They do full-channel testing which shows certain receivers (particularly Yamaha) having much lower wattage than its competitors. But a full channel test is not a real-world representation of how power is used because there are ZERO movies, games or music that will blast speakers with the same signal for more than a minute. Power is always dynamic, volume is always dynamic.
The ultra center is as good as the bookshelfs, they are equally matched. Same sized drivers, same refined tweeters, a very decent 4" midrange just for the vocals. Best of all, it adheres to the best center channel design which is a 3-way WTMW, off-axis lobing will not be an issue vs the more common MTM design.

You do however will need a decent amount of space for the ultra center, it's dual ported at the back so you're going to want to have a good 2-3 ft. off the wall. It's also pretty hefty, so the use of sturdy stands are recommended.

That said, why not just get a pair of ultra bookshelfs first? Get the center later. I kidd you not, the ultra bookshelfs to my ears are equal and in some aspects better than more expensive well reknnown bookshelfs like the KEF LS50 or the Sonus Faber Venere 1.5. I've compared them for lengthy periods, I always go back to the ultras at the end, phenomenal speakers.
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Now I understand very detail... thumbup.gif Thank you ...i will look for Yamaha rx 479 for now
sivanathan04
post May 21 2016, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ May 21 2016, 09:53 PM)
Yamaha coming with new models. Try XLS encore for speaker or q acoustic
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thumbup.gif
sivanathan04
post May 23 2016, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 22 2016, 03:19 PM)
Get a pair of Sony SSCS5 + Yamaha RX v381 = RM2098.
If you have space, get the CS3 floorstanders instead.

Bass won't be plentiful, maybe even weak or just enough depending on your room. A decent sub costs upwards of RM1.5k and above, most subs below that are rubbish.
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thumbup.gif Any major differences between Yamaha rx v379 and rx v381...looks like the 4k hdr and hdmi new in 381...how bout the sound bro
sivanathan04
post May 23 2016, 12:33 AM

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QUOTE(jovigrunge @ May 22 2016, 08:17 PM)
All the RX V81s price already out, Ben?  ohmy.gif
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Have to look for the new price ๐Ÿ‘Œ
sivanathan04
post May 23 2016, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 23 2016, 12:32 AM)
I have no experience with the XLS encore, so I can't compre. That said, the Sony Core Series speakers do present some of the best value for perforamnce in speakers on the market today, that much I can claim without a doubt.
Not out yet, I was basing the price on last year's SRP. Yamaha haven't really changed their SRP prices since the ringgit became shit.
No, other than the inclusion of HDR support, 4k60hz at 4:4:4 and perhaps some geeral fixes, pretty much the same stuff hardware wise. Same power supply, same transformer, same amps. It's a good thing though I suppose, don't fix what isn't broken. The 379 was the most reliable entry level receiver last year, for a good reason.
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