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 LG OLED TV Discussion Thread, OLED TV

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anfieldude
post Jul 10 2017, 03:40 PM

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Hv not been very active in the forum these days. Many reasons, but primarily rec709 was kinda of maturing and with the demise of plasma, the base LCD (or LED backlit LCDs) were all more similar to each other for SDR and there was not much improvements to talk about in terms of technology.

Now that 4K UHD is firming up and the OLEDs becoming a little more mature with HDR also making its presence felt, I hope to write a little more about UHD/HDR with the various tone mapping algos out there to make some comparisons.

I will be posting some calibration charts of the newer displays with some in depth data for a start on the 55C7 model. Possibly some subjective opinions as well.

Calibration of the new displays and the ability to roll off above the the max nits that the new UHD/HDR displays can do will be in my opinion the differentiator of the displays. Look out for some data in the coming weeks/months.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Jul 10 2017, 04:12 PM
anfieldude
post Jul 13 2017, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(ktek @ Jul 11 2017, 09:33 AM)
welcome back
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I've been around, just don't post much.

There seems to be some improvements made in my opinion.

While I don't really consider streaming video as serious viewing, the addition of various streaming options in Malaysia (legally) at UHD (albeit heavily compressed) resolution is a plus. When the industry moved from SD to HD, there was a dire need to show content on HD/Full HD to sell the displays that were FullHD, but content was slow or expensive. The adoption rate was slow and people held on to the CRTs as long as they good. Enticing them to upgrade was difficult, especially with content not being there for the vieiwing.

Now with Netflix/Amazon at our doorstep with high speed internet and both of them having a decent catalogue of content on UHD/HDR/Dolby Vision, things are looking better.

With the recent availability of software to be able to calibrate for Dolby Vision (via a change to the Golden Reference File) and HDR10 separately in different memories on the LG 2017 OLEDs it indicates to me that the manufacturers now understand whats needed for UHD calibration at last after multiple chances to get it right.

While, I prefer if the manufacturers give me more leeway in deciding how I want to roll off the highlights to account for lower output than is demanded by the video in play, I believe we are not far off that this gets built in at least for calibrators to implement on the higher end sets in the near future.

I hope to write more in the coming weeks after the set rakes in some hours.


anfieldude
post Jul 19 2017, 04:24 PM

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Some initial observations.

There are some improvements compared to the 2016 LG OLED in areas that have been already touched upon by the international reviews.

Near black handling is clearly better. While I am still not sure if it is higher than 8 bits in the low end, the improvement compared to 2016 is there. This helps noisy dark areas better. I do see posterization from time to time, but its in content that is streaming, hence its hard to understand if they are bit starved.

The set is still new and needs to settle down a bit. I believe it has to undergo its 1st compensation cycle before I can judge further.

I do see that the Dynamic handling of HDR does allow to resolve higher than 1000nits (sometimes I see even up to 4000nits) but depending on the APL (with this being test patterns) the impact on the overall brightness is there.

For SDR, the brightness/contrast seems to be spot on at default which is a good indication that LG understands this very well.

I hope to jot down further observations when I calibrate it this week.

Also looking forward to calibrating Dolby Vision soon.

The UHD/HDR/DV feeds in Netflix do hv peak data streaming of about 15-20Mbps. I hv not seen any really coming close to 25Mpbs that Netflix requires for UHD, but then again, I hv not really viewed the whole movies yet.
anfieldude
post Jul 21 2017, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Jul 20 2017, 05:01 PM)
@bold 1
Agreed. I still do see some posterization on 10 bit content though, was watching Resident Evil Vendetta (UHD blu-ray version) the other day and I clearly see banding on dark gradients. I feel that LG could have a similar post-process like Sony's Smooth Gradation feature to help in this area, at the expense of blurring actual textures.

@bold 2
Took me 3 compensation cycles before I could start calibrating without any changes beyond the next 50 hours. So basically, the first 120+ hours of my C7 has been for non-critical viewing. I read that a few owners let their C7s run slides for a week before even attempting to watch anything though. That's a little too extreme IMO.

@bold 3
This is one of the most significant improvements I've observed moving from the E6 to the C7. Couple with the fact that APL is significantly less aggressive as well, this makes for a very case where bright scenes become very tolerable to watch. Dolby Vision will further close the gap between OLED and LCDs for peak brightness due to this sole improvement.
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I'm not sure if the banding is not in the content, I hv seen them in content as well previously when I am at some post production studio using their monitor used for colour grading. However, I believe there is an inherent weakness to how the OLED handles dark content as the slight posterization can be seen on 10bit colour grading test patterns which indicate the weakness. I hv seen better handing of these kinds of material in my Kuro 9th Gen as the PWM and halftoning algorithms can mask them but with some added noise in the areas.

On the calibration portion, are u doing SDR and HDR calibration? I do believe that the greyscale can be calibrated well if u understand how not to misalign the 20pt controls. As yet, I hv not seen any display so far handle white balance as well as the 9th Gen Kuros that only has 2 point but almost ruler flat greyscale even when measured at 5% intervals.

Dolby Vision calibration will be interesting. So far only Calman has the ability to do it. U would also need a pattern generator that can trigger Dolby Vision or use ur PC. The workflows are very specific as it's controlled by Dolby.

anfieldude
post Jul 21 2017, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Jul 21 2017, 03:33 PM)
I don't think the banding is in the content? RE:V is a 10 bit mastered movie with Dolby Vision, so it's mastered exactly like that from the studio. Yeah, contours and posterization can be seen on the C7. From my understanding, it is LG's current band-aid situation to boost brightness levels - resulting in banding and vignetting on the panel.
I've seen plenty of people returning their C7s (not here though) to exchange for a better panel until they get a "perfect" one. As it stands right now, yeah majority of C7 (and all other 6 and 7 series models) will exhibit banding in gradients.

Both, but I think LG did a pretty solid job in the SDR presets out of the box if you ask me, not a whole lot of tweaking needed to achieve a flat greyscale. Only thing I tried and achieve with SDR content is to match it at 2.2 gamma, which out of the box was a little high at 2.3. Although 2.4 would be best in a pitch black room, I don't watch stuff in a pitch black room anymore these days.

On the HDR side, I borrowed a Klein K80 and Murideo 6G from a friend who's a fellow calibrator and I will be using that for pattern generation. I'm not sure whether I did a good enough job or not (not a certified calibrator here so there are a few things I'm not quite sure about), to my eyes at least - I think it's fine. Will have the friend over this weekend to verify my calibration.
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Seems like u r in the right direction as far as calibration is concerned. I would advise if possible to profile the K80 with a 5nm spectro and do a perceptual matching against another display side by side calibrated to D65 and make adjustments for white point after that. This is avoid the colour metamerism effect that the OLED can pose.

Btw, I did not mean that for RE UHD that u watched had banding in the source I was meaning to point out that not all content mastered is free of banding. Banding can exist in BD and UHD .

Sent u a separate PM on something else. If possible, pls let me know.
anfieldude
post Jul 25 2017, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Jul 21 2017, 04:47 PM)
@bolded
Understood, will do that.
I've gotten delta errors to 1 currently, I doubt it can go below that anymore.

Ah alright, I went back and re-read your post. Misunderstood, my bad.

On a side note, Rtings posted this comparison between the C7 and A1E:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

The A1E has almost no banding at all as a result of Smooth Gradation enabled to the "Low" setting.
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I agree that the Sony does seem improve banding. However, I believe that particular banding is in the source. I will need to get the data on that compared to a reference monitor used for grading. When I find it , I will post.

Still, I think the layman would prefer the Sony version since it's difficult to explain that it's an inaccurate source.
anfieldude
post Aug 25 2017, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Aug 24 2017, 04:03 PM)
In KL? Best Denki, RM9799 + free SH8 soundbar.

Previously there was an open box display set (used for LG OLED roadshow at Pavilion, so basically just a 4 days old set) on sale at Harvey Norman Pavilion. Only RM7777 + SH8 soundbar. Thought of picking it up, but I found that the panel uniformity was not good enough for me (anyone who does calibration knows that OCD feeling) after running a few slides on it - the store manager was kind enough to allow it. But for most other people, it is absolutely fine.

Also had an E7 65" open box set selling for RM19k, I don't think it's sold yet though. Would have bought it if I didn't already have a C7 65". Dang.
Lol 11999 + free soundbar is basically ripping your neck off.

Best Denki only selling at 9799 + free SH8 soundbar.
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The only difference is the soundbar from SH8 to SJ8. RM9800 is about right and if it makes a difference the 2017 sets hv free 3 months Netflix UHD access. RM7777 is an extremely good price. What's the going rate for 65C7 I wonder?

anfieldude
post Aug 25 2017, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(funnyface @ Aug 25 2017, 12:39 PM)
Got meh?  ohmy.gif
How to claim?

*side topic, anyone try claim soundbar before? Do we expect to receive some kind of acknowledgement when LG received our application?  sweat.gif
Sent the form using post express on monday, yet to receive any response... sweat.gif
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Yes. I hv the side banner in webOS and when u click it requires ur login and password and 3 months free Netflix is credited.

Can't help u on the sound bar claiming as the application was done by the seller for me. However, LG called me about 3 weeks after submission and the delivered via PosLaju. It took about 1 month from purchase to arrive.
anfieldude
post Aug 31 2017, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(funnyface @ Aug 30 2017, 08:49 PM)
The price is just OK, with worse soundbar (should get SJ8 according to LG Malaysia) but extended 1 year warranty  hmm.gif
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I thought the price shown is good even with lower spec soundbar. What's the going rate now with SJ8 soundbar?
anfieldude
post Oct 17 2017, 05:18 PM

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New firmware update brings Technicolor picture modes to the 2017 sets. Will hv to see if there is any difference in HDR tone mapping
anfieldude
post Jan 10 2018, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(Fusion @ Jan 10 2018, 11:41 AM)
Anyone knows how to display Video Information with OS3.5?

i am trying to check the stream info when i watch Netflix or Youtube but cant seem to find the button to do. Anyway to show the Resolution that it is streaming?
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U hv to use the LG TV Plus app to show resolution during Netflix. There is an 'i' button in that app. For YouTube u enable stats for nerds in YouTube options to see resolution.
anfieldude
post Jan 15 2018, 07:49 AM

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QUOTE(Slash21 @ Jan 14 2018, 12:23 PM)
Hi All,

I was offered a replacement as my previous Samsung SUHD 65" JS8000 had light bleed problems... I plan to get a new TV for the long term, at to last 5 years...

Thinking of LG C7 but concern about image retention and burn in. I watch movies, netflix and play some games. I didn't want to worry or baby sit the TV as you guys term it.

Should I consider LG or go for alternatives like Sony x930e or Samsung Q7 QLED?

If going for alternatives, is Sony better than Samsung as I see reviews they are...?

For Sony, I see in US they get x930e, whats the equivalent model in Malaysia?

Thanks all...
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If you vary content u shd be fine
anfieldude
post May 20 2018, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 20 2018, 05:00 PM)
Just saw the 55" C8 at Best Denki - selling for RM10k, 6% cash back (so RM9.4k).

The bigger models should be here by June.
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At the moment LG don't seem to be bringing in the 77C8, I hope they do and the price is reasonable.
anfieldude
post May 28 2018, 02:46 PM

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Interestingly the new 2018 A8F Sony OLEDs hv dropped in price compared to the 2017 A1E sets by quite a bit. I was hoping this would mean that LG2018 sets would start lower than the 2017 but it does not seem like LG has the same strategy.
anfieldude
post May 28 2018, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 28 2018, 03:24 PM)
The A8F and A1E are 2 different categories as far as Sony is concerned though? I mean, the A8F has a cheaper build quality out of the box, doesn't have that fancy unpractical stand. To Sony, the A1E is still their flagship OLED TV.

Technically the C8 although it's releasing at the same SRP as last year's C7, the C8's street price is already lower than that of the C7 at this time last year.
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That's good to hear. I believe the A8F is to compete with the C8 and it's close in terms of SRP.

The 65A8F is definitely good value to where the SRP is. With some discounts it could be a decent price. I hv not seen the 65C8 prices as yet.
anfieldude
post May 28 2018, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ May 28 2018, 04:44 PM)
I believe the 65C8 is going for around RM16k (street price), might be wrong on this though.

Anyways, the one glaring weakness I found with the A8F in comparison to the C8 is in EOTF tracking. The C8 tracks a lot better and only rolls off after 600 nits where as the A8F rolls off after 120 nits. Also the ABL on the A8F is just far too aggressive unless you watch in a pitch black room and have the ABL setting set to Low, but that will also in turn hurt specular highlights.

Other minor complaints include the somewhat high input lag (30ms) and the extremely shallow stand. I don't think the A8F is a good competitor to the C8 to be frank. Sure Sony's upscaling is still king and its enhancements over 8 bit content remains superior to the others, but I don't think its strength beats LG's.

On a second note, I can't wait for the Panasonic FZ800 and FZ950.
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Sony's tone mapping cannot be defeated I believe so the effect on preserving highlights vs peak output between the 2 are always different. However, most people won't notice in my opinion unless viewed side by side. Upscaling and motion is slightly to Sony's favour but again hard to notice. The prices tend to give competition as previously Sony prices were much higher. Would be good to compare Panny prices, soon.
anfieldude
post May 30 2018, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(nomar @ May 30 2018, 05:16 PM)
Just came back from one of H.N store,  best I can get is 11K
Roadshow already ended,didn’t even know about it,  that time selling 8K + (close to 9)  , don’t feel like simply paying 2K extra
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Is this for the 55C8?
anfieldude
post May 31 2018, 08:55 AM

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QUOTE(tZZ @ May 30 2018, 11:24 PM)
Bullshit. The price was for a new C8 set. The roadshow price was 8996. After -6%, it was on sale for slightly below 8.5K.
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Post roadshow it seems like the price of the 55C8 is now closed to 11k. At this price the Sony 55AF8 is similar an a real option for those who need the motion enhancement and a better implemented BFI.
anfieldude
post Jun 6 2018, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(tZZ @ Jun 6 2018, 04:20 PM)
AF8 is the worth it winner in my books. It's selling price is lower than LG for 55in and 65in. 9.x k and 13.x k respectively.
It's now available in most major stores.
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It does seem so for now. Unless LG drops the price. The other differentiator would be Android TVOS vs WebOS. I feel WebOS is a much better OS as Android TV OS is slow. Maybe Sony will also drop the price now since World Cup is just around the corner.
anfieldude
post Jun 11 2018, 10:06 PM

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Astro Go is now available on WebOS. Last couple of months there has been quite a few apps released on WebOS..not too shabby. WebOS has always lagged terms of apps but the UI has always been pretty quick compared to Samsung Tizen and Android TV OS...now with more apps it's coming close overall.

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