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> Coffee Lover v.2 Thread, Let's Share!

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MyHobby
post Feb 17 2020, 02:45 PM

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Hi all, the intention of this my first post in this forum is to make friends to learn, share, and exchange experiences about coffee. Of course, that's can be done in the forum but am after something even more like visiting each other to try out and explore:
- coffee beans
- recipe / techniques
- cupping
- espresso maker
- grinder
- even portafilter, tamper, distributor / leverer tools etc

Hopefully from there we will learn from each other more about coffee.

I started to like luwak coffee with syphon brew in Bali about 6 years ago.
Tried quite some coffees in different cafe but I was quite confused and lost... How a coffee should taste?
I know this is very much individual preferences. Let me explain it this way. Say one tells that his body shape that is with big beer belly is the perfect shape of man's body, you may agree if you don't need anything about the shape of a body builder.
I went for a short learning session about coffee - still confused. I then took a 2 days course and learned quite a bit about coffee. Of course, that doesn't make me better than the most of your with far more experience, but I am keen to learn and experience more

I live in Subang Jaya.
Other than the Hario syphon set (too time consuming to use), I also have French press, the classic Oscar and Eureka Mignon.
I do invite friends to my house for coffee from time to time. Just hope to meet more friends who are really into coffee like me so that we can share more :-)

MyHobby
post Feb 18 2020, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(Cloud2322 @ Feb 17 2020, 04:45 PM)
Sounds good!

Did you upgraded your oscar with opv kit?
The previous owner did a nice upgrade. Yes, it is the OPV kit.

I own a oscar 2 and eureka mignon, same setting bro.  rclxm9.gif

Thing is what do you want to know about coffee? More in-depth into crops and the bean processes?

The origin of coffee > Types of Crops > Types of Beans > Coffee Picking > Type of Processes > Roasting > Brewing > Tasting
My interest is more to:
- what more we can do with what we already have
- tasting the same coffee shot of coffee and share opinions
- maybe someone can share that brewing it up to say 35s may taste nicer for a particular beans, or do you flush before brewing as temp may be too high? Maybe they are some standard answers already but someone telling you his real experience or the few get together trying it out will be a good experience, right?
- learning from each others from people's machine, like when I do it from your machine when the way I usually brew mine, I may learn or that may inspire something... Can be simple thing like 58mm tamper against 58.35mm. It doesn't change the taste but maybe the convenience and how clean it will turn out
- mostly people would recommend something that they have used and familiar with. The rule of thumb is usually the more expensive the better the product. I watch this youtube of this Gail of Seattle Coffee Gear, which she compared espresso makers that cost $300 and $3000. Yes, there's difference but if the taste is not so significantly different then the price x taste is something that worth to consider. Most important of all, if the person who's drinking it can't tell the difference between the 2, then that investment may be not necessary.
- meeting each other will promote the interest to want to explore and a motivation to improve in order to make ourselves a better coffee. I do from time to time observe the way cafe's baristas brew coffee. How they froth the milk and how many time people served you a cappuccino when you ordered a latte?

That's the basic of it.
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MyHobby
post Feb 26 2020, 09:45 AM

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Brewing coffee is an art or science?
1 of the questions from my instructor during the first day of my 1st Degree of Coffee course.
What I learned… something far away to think about would be from the origin of the beans at different altitude, temperature, soil, rain/water all the way to blending (single origin, trio etc) and then roasting. To me they are mostly part of chemistry, so they are science.
Of course, you may say skillful workers picking and shortlisting the beans, skill or roasting etc are art. Yes, I do agree with that too, but a large of them are still science that created the SOP for workers to follow.
Unless you roast coffee beans yourself, most of the mentioned activities are usually beyond our reach. Let's talk about something that we can do…
I would say brewing coffee is both science and art.
I usually do with dose of 20g, yield 40g, between 20s and 30s. These figures are actually Science. Even the type of milk (different brand, lactose free, almond milk etc) would make a difference. Of course milk pitching positioning too… these are science. Btw, I use an average of 4 liters milk each week. My 'regular client' (wife :-)) wants lactose free or almond milk too… They all (diff milk) work differently.
This is like cooking recipe, if you don't follow the given volume of spices or materials, you are not going to get the chemical effect that you want.
What about Art? Undoubtedly Latte art is art :-p
Let me use this analogy to explain more about art…
A very good char kway teow cook is getting too old and decided to pass the business to his only son who had been his helper the past 10 years. The father is given the full including secret recipe but the son just can't cook out the same delicious taste like the father. The secret recipe here would be the science. The art would probably be the way his father massages the kway teow, the strength and gentleness the father stirs and handles the wok, the pace the father puts in ingredients and the heart the father uses.
From there, we can tell that the science is really the recipe, which in cafe's world is very much like SOP for brewing coffee. As for the rest of the things are the art part. I stand corrected. Please feel free to share. Thanks…

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MyHobby
post Feb 26 2020, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(Tikietic @ Feb 25 2020, 09:16 PM)
[/spoiler]
Which part of Subang bro?
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SS 17, very near to SS15 LRT Station. 😊
MyHobby
post Feb 27 2020, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Feb 26 2020, 12:10 PM)
how i brew my coffee... is art... cool2.gif

1. i dump 2 (gaggia classic plastic) scoops of beans into grinder...depends on beans and age...sometimes more sometimes less... no idea how many grams
2. i adjust grinder based on how fast the coffee drips out the first 5-10 seconds...i dun used timer...just mental count
3. i tamper sometimes hard sometimes soft...depends on how powdery the grind comes out
4. i start machine and mental count...but basically check how it drips out in 5-10 seconds...
5. i stop on blonding...sometimes more sometimes less...can be from 25-90s...dunno how long... i dun weight my yield...
6. i get new bag of beans...i bite and chew them to determine how to adjust the grinder for 1st grind...

end of the day...i enjoy the coffee just as much as the science nut who tries to perfect every step of the way ...  thumbup.gif
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You are like the master char kway teow cook who can simply grab the kway teow with free hand can come out with perfect taste char kway teow. Thumbs up.

Even when you know well that there are variances like the coarseness, brewing time, tamping weight and angle, water temperature, pump pressure, etc but that still taste nice to you, then congrats for having such a nice tongue with rather wide range of sweet spot. That also means that very high chance the coffee made by almost any cafes will be acceptable to you.
I wish my wife can have that tolerance and my daughter who can't drink coffee yet wouldn't complain when her milk is too foamy, not as sweet as usual etc. Yes, milk frothing skill and temperature would make a difference to the texture, taste and sweetness. Before my hands got familiar with temperature, I had to rely on thermometer or this temp sticker in the pic.

Moving to more and more expensive equipment:
Espresso makers - we can see and even control variables like water temperature, pump pressure, E61 group head, etc. The control variables are science. People with more sensitive tongue will comment like this is too bitter for me - the first thing to consider is probably the brewing time (too long) and that may also related to coarseness. Adjustment can only be done when we know for sure the values we used previously.

Grinder - most probably realized these facts… weight from the 1st grind is different from the 10th grind. Bean A weights different from bean B. Like wine you can never get back the same taste of wine unless they are from the same batch, coffee beans too. Bean A will not weight and taste exactly the same unless they are from the same batch with the same handling and exposure to the same environmental conditioning.
That also tells that a busy cafe should do calibration a few times a day.

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MyHobby
post Feb 28 2020, 09:11 AM

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My wife has stopped ordering the teh-c that she likes in the restaurant that we usually go for lunch. The taste has changed. We first suspected due to the change of barista, so we asked the one that we know to make the tea. It tasted better but still not right. Other friends also complained about the same problem, so we decided to analyse it - culprit is the change of tea powder.

There are so many factors that will affect the taste of a cup of coffee - our friend said about cows eating different food in different season, that's too. It's an end-to-end process, from the start of beans all the end to the brewing and serving or the coffee. Almost there, but there's 1 more very important factor, the consumer - from the mood of the moment to sensory analysis sensitivity: taste, texture, flavour, sight.
Anyway, from book - the 5 elements of brewing espresso: bean, barista, machine, grinder, water.

Getting / upgrading to more and more expensive equipment means paying to get more detailed level of control like PID, temperature, pressure, DB and 1 very important thing:- Consistency.
Consistency sounds so subjective and abstractive too, right? Today, I just want to share something that I learned that we can do as consistency check that we can do with naked eyes: Puck.
Check it out in this link:
https://artisti.com.au/blogs/news/identifyi...the-coffee-puck

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MyHobby
post Mar 3 2020, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(siles1991 @ Mar 3 2020, 01:52 AM)
I've been experimenting with the v60, and I realised that I can't use the same brew time when im using more or less coffee. Like 12g of coffee I follow let's say 3:00 it's perfect, but then I move up to 20g it's not the same, and of course when I move to 40g its also not the same.

I can slowly test and experiment which i'll be doing anyways. But does anyone have any advice or tips on how to get consistent across the different amounts of coffee I use? I use the same coffee:water ratio each time.
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Try to explore smartphone app of coffee.guru.
I used that when I was doing French press.


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MyHobby
post Mar 6 2020, 02:01 PM

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For your reading: Dialing in.
I think it's not limited to espresso.
Do you do it everytime you change beans?

https://scanews.coffee/2015/07/06/coffee-talk-dialing-in/

This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 6 2020, 02:02 PM
MyHobby
post Mar 8 2020, 04:16 PM

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Cleanliness is 1 of the reasons why we go to cafe that we know well or brewing coffee at home. I make it a habit to descale every 10-14 days.
Guessed many are familiar with descaling espresso maker. Today, I want to share about cleaning grinder.
When possible, I will clean the grinder at the "surface" level, brushing to all reachable spots and vacuum suction - - also do with the running grinder.
Eureka Mignon users may refer to this link for tech tips.

Another thing that I want to share here...usually every 3-4 months, I will unscrew the burr component and then wash and brush it. (note: like the inside of your French oven, you don't use the green part (rougher) of your sponge to rub on smooth / shinny surface).
Pic of below showing the built-up of coffee ground. Washed till it looked clean with the naked eye. Then I decided to put it into container that I used when cleaning with Cafiza. Check out what came onto the surface yourself.

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This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 8 2020, 07:44 PM
MyHobby
post Mar 8 2020, 04:18 PM

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Sorry about the duplicated post.. Am still not good at this forum posting.
Anyway, this is the link of Eureka Mignon tech tips.
https://youtu.be/XcD7kMh2Fr4


This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 8 2020, 04:26 PM
MyHobby
post Mar 10 2020, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Mar 9 2020, 08:54 PM)
sorry but cleaning grinders this way is imho...overboard and not good for coffee

a new grinder/burrs need to grind hundreds of kilos of beans so that they "seat" properly through wear...this creates a uniform gap between the burrs... buy taking the burrs off regularly you are ensuring that this alignment never happens

just brush whatever grinds off daily...and weekly just blow/vacuum will be good enough
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Good morning.
Thanks dwRK for pointing out the alignment concern :-)
Found something for better understanding about alignment here: http://coffeenavigated.net/grinder/
You are absolutely right about burr alignment. Thanks man.

Only today I learned burr alignment.
A few places i checked on before started removing the top burr for cleaning particularly:
https://www.homegrounds.co/how-to-clean-a-burr-grinder/
https://driftaway.coffee/maintain-your-grinder/?amp

I still have the Hario manual grinder as well as the 600N. For sure I need to dismantle the manual grinder to clean it. Come to think of that, now it probably explained why it took me more than 15 mins to grind beans for 2 cups of coffee... Other than coarseness setting, i think alignment could be 1 of the factors.

I guessed that's why we need to recalibrate the grinder after cleaning it.

Lesson learned and things to consider...
I will probably not remove any of the burr if I have a new E65S, say for a year or 2 :-)
As for my Eureka Mignon, "damage" is done. I am now torn between let it take its time to realign itself everytime I unplugged the upper burr or live n drink with ground that touch / mix with build-up in the grinder.
3rd option is do the "detailed" cleaning maybe once or twice a year.

Thanks again. I like exchange of opinions as I get to learn from there.

This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 10 2020, 10:51 AM
MyHobby
post Mar 11 2020, 11:45 AM

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Good day all :-)
Today I wish to share info of the few similar topics in the recent posts: Cleaning & Descaling.

I Googled it as I don't have all the answer to all and I wish to learn them too. Here I found a piece of info for your reading:
https://urnex.com/blog/whats-the-difference...a-coffee-maker/

Simple points to understand here:
1. Descale is to remove build-up (minerals) along water passage all the way to blind filter.
2. Cleaning is to remove residue built-up to make coffee taste fresh.

For 1, It's actually back-washing:
Cleaning chemical on blind plate, 10s x 5, rinse, 10s x 5 fasten-release of group head handle. Then rinse.

For 2. I will then collect the last rinsed hot water in descaling + cleaning chemical to soak group head, group screen, shower holder sprayer, and portal-filter, for 10-15 mins. Then remove oil with non-scratch scourer scrub. Rinse with cold water to remove chemical residue.
To me, 2 is not limited to just the above. I have been taught to use 3 cloths: 1 for table, 1 for milk, 1 for group-head. Before each use, group head needs to be flushed. Flush the spouts after each brew, then knock off the puck. Put back the group head handle to maintain its temperature or it will go to the wash basin.
Rub milk off the steam wand and tip. (By now you know you need a wet cloth to do it properly). Then flush the steam for 1-2s. [this step is essential for cleanliness reason. A point in SCA practical exam too] :-)
Shut off the power. Not done yet... we gotta put the steamer lever / valve to release all gas / steam, this will take a while... maybe a min. I will usually leave it there while enjoying my coffee smile.gif

This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 11 2020, 11:46 AM
MyHobby
post Mar 12 2020, 10:49 AM

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Good morning.
Slept for less than 3 hours, am taking that as an excuse for the bad coffee I made this morning.

Say making a cup of Latte, strictly on just the making of the coffee: after dosing - the grinding is done by grinder, distribute ground evenly, tamping - rather important, it should be even, am using a calibrated pressure tamper, the brewing. To me, other than tamping, most of them rely on consistency of machines (grinder, espresso maker).
So a large portion of it is science.

Steaming milk is an art!
There are science too, but a large portion of it is art.
The outcome should be silky smooth milk.
Science: heat to 55 - 70°C, foam (make bubbles), texture (make bubbles small)
Still science: way to identify temperature - sight (thermometer or temp sticker), touch (hand sensory), sound (frequency)
Science again: Need to create rapid whirlpool spinning in order to break into smaller bubbles. Factors to consider here including angle, depth, and power.
When that's done and you still see bubbles, bang the pitcher against the table to break the bubble (you may want to put the other hand a few cm above the pitcher so that it will not spill elsewhere).
The last step before pouring will be spinning the finished milk. It should be shinny with no visible bubbles.
Of course, spin the espresso too before pouring milk into and onto it.

Why I said it's more to art when I stated that they are science?
Well, before steaming, you need to know the right time (indication) to adjust pitcher to the level to create bubble.
Then adjust the level to break down bubbles.
The challenge here is all these to happen and finish within a few secs. Oscar can finish in 10 +/- secs.
Bubbling too long will end up with too much bubble, breaking down bubble too long will end up heating up the milk temp too high.
Next time when you heard high pitch of sound from steaming milk for too long, you can tell that the milk temp is probably too high.
A small mistake will just spoil the soup.

All these are just the preparation of Latte art. Latte art is another episode of story but I can't tell that now since am still exploring it. You can see from the pic, quite a bit to improve and lack consistency.

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This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 13 2020, 10:01 PM
MyHobby
post Mar 19 2020, 04:39 PM

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The inception story…

For many years I couldn’t accept the taste of coffee because it tasted bitter, like the Chinese medicine. I tried many times and drank an accumulated of not more than 1 cup of coffee. Every time when I must go to a cafe, wife will have to make the order since I couldn’t tell any names of these coffee “race” or “tribe”. I knew nothing about espresso, latte, cappuccino, mocha, americano…. If I were to make the order, I can only do with drinks like hot chocolate, fruit juice, mineral water, soft drinks, ice cream etc.

Things changed when I went to Bali. I told myself that I must try the most expensive coffee in the world - Luwak coffee. Well that was the only name I knew, and I never heard about Geisha coffee then.
We went to a coffee farm and tasted the Luwat coffee with syphon brew. For the first time, that “opened” a new dimension of impression about coffee. I bought more than a kilo of that Peaberry civet coffee right after that. Then I bought the Hario ceramic coffee mill (manual grinder) in Jaya Grocer and Hario syphon set online.
Felt that I made the right purchase decision when wife sent me pic of a cafe in Penang selling civet coffee with syphon brew (slightly more than a cup) at the price of RM 80 (not peaberry).

Problems…
I didn’t know why it worked in the coffee farm in Bali, the fire of the syphon set was just not strong enough and it took ages to heat up the water. Then I pre-heated the water before brewing it. Still not happy about that, so I bought a micro burner.
That didn’t last for long as I felt that the preparation effort and time taken are way too long to enjoy a cup of coffee. That was when I started to want to explore and learn more about coffee specially the tasting of coffee.
Yes, you are right saying its very much individual taste and preferences. Still, I wanted to learn about what’s the commonly acceptable range of taste, what’s right and not right. Sometime later, when I learned more about coffee, I have friends from the Australia and the western world said Malaysian coffee drinkers are nice and easy to serve because they don’t complain about the served coffee. My thoughts were probably combination of: Malaysians are just generally nice, they have high taste tolerance, they have been “pampered” by the kopitiam “gao gao” coffee, or simply like me – they don’t know what’s right / not-right. They are also those who are happy so long as there’s enough syrup.

Another problem - I drink and keep Chinese tea. With almost zero knowledge about coffee then, I thought coffee is like “raw” Chinese tea that will undergo fermentation especially good in Malaysia’s climate. I thought the longer I keep these beans the better they will taste ☹
I had more than a kilo of peaberry but with slow manual grinding, syphon brew that is taking quite a bit of time and effort, for 2 cups of coffee each time. I could taste the difference for coffee brewed over months, but I didn’t tell more about what went wrong.
That's why I decided to attend a training: Introduction to Coffee and then started to brew coffee with French Press.

That's how I started my coffee brewing journey...

This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 19 2020, 04:55 PM
MyHobby
post Mar 19 2020, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(RagnarokVampire @ Mar 18 2020, 06:43 PM)
Hey guys! Just a quick question.

I'm just starting out with latte art and making espresso and am currently interested in getting an entry level espresso machine. However, I'm not sure for beginners like me, would a single-boiler machine be sufficient? Or should I look into a double-boiler one instead?

Thanks!
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Please read this url. Hopefully it helps to decide on single / double boiler.
https://betterespressomachinesreviews.com/s...-which-is-best/

My experience - it's good to consider starting from a used unit, as you can learn and explore more from there. Grinder is another thing you have to consider if you don't already have one.
MyHobby
post Mar 24 2020, 03:52 PM

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Just received new toys that hopefully can help killing the boredom of CMO a bit. :-)

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MyHobby
post Mar 24 2020, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(zryanz @ Mar 24 2020, 09:46 AM)
anyone found any good deals for coffee on lazada for their upcoming birthday sale?
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Maybe you can get something good from here (new and used).
Try to join this group in Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/498787200501907/
MyHobby
post Mar 24 2020, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(xFreedomBoix @ Mar 23 2020, 01:53 PM)
Hi guys.
Anyone has any recommendation for espresso machine under RM1k?
my friend is looking for one, he is just getting into coffee hobby.

is delong ecov311 + non preassurized basket and removed steam wand cover be good enough? lol
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Try to join this group in Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/498787200501907/

This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 24 2020, 04:05 PM
MyHobby
post Mar 24 2020, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(MyHobby @ Mar 24 2020, 03:52 PM)
Just received new toys that hopefully can help killing the boredom of CMO a bit. :-)

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First brew using the new portafilter basket...

Physical differences between the new and old portafilter
Old with truncated and new with straight wall.
Old can't really fit more than 20g, while the new old can hold up to 22g.

With no other changes made, the brew time changed from 27s to 21s. The "Marmite" I mean espresso :-) tasted a bit more sour, as expected... The rule of shorter brew sour x longer brew bitter applies herr. It's not really sour but can still taste a bit of sourness.
With that, I have a chance to grind the beans finer. To me, by theory finer grinding should give a stronger taste and more flavour, but am not sure. Anyone can share your opinion?

Nothing to show on the espresso. Here's the Latte from the same brew.

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MyHobby
post Mar 25 2020, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(calapia @ Mar 25 2020, 12:54 PM)
i thought the rule is always the amount of grind u use (means how many gm), extraction time vs the standard double shot 30 seconds as reference?
18gm espresso to yield 36gm output in 30 seconds. this is regardless of grind size
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I am quite certain of the answer to this. Please see this pic which I captured from the book of my coffee course.

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This post has been edited by MyHobby: Mar 25 2020, 06:41 PM

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